confused about oxalates

[solarliving]

I have been eating a lot of kale and parsley. Apparently they are high in oxalates along with many other vegetables, even my precious almonds. The list goes on with strawberries, lemons, ginger. So far the only items I have found that don't contain oxalates are bananas, apples, grapefruits, carrots, avocados and apples

I just don't get it when kale is also considered a good source of calcium, not to mention one of the best sources of vitamin A and C. Does anyone know anything about oxalates?

Taken from a website:

Since oxalic acid binds with important nutrients, making them inaccessible to the body, regular consumption of large amounts of foods high in oxalic acid over a period of weeks to months may result in nutrient deficiencies, most notably of calcium.

Want to reduce your risk of calcium oxalate kidney stones? Drink apple juice. A study published in the August 2003 issue of the British Journal of Nutrition found that when women drank ½ to 1 litre of apple, grapefruit or orange juice daily, their urinary pH value and citric acid excretion increased, significantly dropping their risk of forming calcium oxalate stones.

[Ahimsa]

Kale does contain oxalic acid, but it is not considered a 'high' oxalic acid food like spinach, for example. The lower the oxalic acid content the less calcium will bind with it (oxalic acid will also 'bind' with iron, potassium and magnesium found in plants) and the more you will absorb. Here is a list of vegetables and their oxalic acid contents:
Vegetable Oxalic acid (g/100 g)

Parsley 1.70
Chives 1.48
Purslane 1.31
Cassava 1.26
Amaranth 1.09
Spinach 0.97
Beet leaves 0.61
Carrot 0.50
Radish 0.48
Collards 0.45
Beans, snap 0.36
Brussels sprouts 0.36
Garlic 0.36
Lettuce 0.33
Watercress 0.31
Sweet potato 0.24
Turnip 0.21
Chicory 0.21
Broccoli 0.19
Celery 0.19
Eggplant 0.19
Cauliflower 0.15
Asparagus 0.13
Endive 0.11
Cabbage 0.10
Tomato 0.05
Pea 0.05
Turnip greens 0.05
Potato 0.05
Onion 0.05
Okra 0.05
Pepper 0.04
Parsnip 0.04
Rutabaga 0.03
Squash 0.02
Kale 0.02
Cucumbers 0.02
Corn, sweet 0.01
Coriander 0.01


Some rawies think that oxalic acid eaten in the raw form causes no problems (Norman Walker thought this).

If you're worried I would just not make high oxalic acid foods the main part of your diet. Have a variety of greens/fruits/nuts/seeds everyday.

IMO a raw diet provides the lowest risk of calcium oxalate stone formation (if that's what you're worried about). Here is a good summary of most of those stone forming factors from a post on living and raw foods:
"There are a number of other factors that determine whether the calcium and oxalic acid will actually form crystals in the body. I'll list them, but it's too long to go into all the reasoning behind everything. It includes the following dietary patterns: low fiber, highly refined carbohydrates, high alcohol comsumption, large amounts of animal protein, high fat intake, and high intake of high-calcium, low-magnesium, vitamin-D enriched milk products. Dietary patterns that cause increased urinary excretion of calcium put you at high risk for stone formation. They are high sugar intake, high protein intake, diet low in Magnesium and B6, depressed levels of glutamic acid(due to vitamin B6 deficiency) and high sodium intake.. Citric acid has the ability to reduce urinary saturation of calcium oxalate and calcium phosphate and retard the nucleation and crystal growth of calcium salts. Vitamin K is necessary in the manufacture of a molecule that is a powerful inhibitor of kidney stone formation. This is good, it says the presence of vitamin K in green leafy vegetables may be one reason vegetarians have a lower incidence of kidney stones."

[Rawkinlocs]

I just got done doing a little research on this topic and from what I gathered of the various websites I went to (not raw food or even vegan/vegetarian-based sites either) is that the people who are to limit their intake of oxalates are those who already have recurring kidney problems or kidney stones and that the oxalates don't cause the stones in people, but if those who already have the stones consume high amounts of foods high in oxalic acid or oxalates, their condition can worsen and even become fatal.

Kinda like a person who has a strawberry or nut "allergy"...the strawberries or nuts didnt' cause the allergy, poor dietary/lifestyle choices did. But eating certain foods will cause the body to react. If/when the person decides to take on healthier eating habits, they may notice that they can eventually enjoy those strawberries or nuts (like my youngest daughter).

A kidney dialysis patient can't have certain foods (I believe oxalic acid foods are some of them...I think) because it can cause other problems. But these foods didn't bring about their kidney failure. See what I mean?

So, to the healthy person (per one of the sites I visited), there is not much need to be concerned with food-occuring oxalic acid/oxalates.

Also keep in mind that many of these studies and findings are based on cooked food eaters, SAD eaters and people who are getting their main source of calcium from animal products (dairy).

[solarliving]

Thanks all for your research. I suppose if I am eating mostly fruits and veggies I won't have a problem due to the fiber and nutrient content. I had known that spinach was high in oxalates, so I intentionally stayed away from it. Now I realize it is in almost everything along with the goitrogens and purines. I will have switch my eating around a bit.

thanks,

Angelique

[solarliving]

I hope this is accurate. For those who are interested, I found this on www.behealthy.com

Oxalic acid is very high in leafy green vegetables; spinach, mustard greens, Swiss chard, beet greens, turnip greens, kale, collards and broad-leafed sorrel. This acid is the ingredient that keeps the function of the colon healthy. This means proper beating function. It is important that this oxalic acid be consumed raw (organic), as when it is cooked (inorganic), it forms an interlocking compound with the calcium (even the calcium in other foods eaten at the same meal), destroying the nourishing value of both. This results in such a serious deficiency of calcium that it has been known to cause decomposition of the bones. Also, minerals frequently cannot be utilized if they become inorganic through cooking, etc. For example, iron in raw spinach may be utilized one hundred percent whereas only one-fifth of the iron in cooked spinach can be utilized by the body.

[podol]

Solar,
Thanks for the good post. I do eat a lots of parsley and cilantro.
Spinach once in a while. Actually the same explanation was given regarding oxalic acid by Maya Gogulan in her books. Parsley is Russia is considered as a medicianal herb.

[RawTruth]

I hope this is accurate. For those who are interested, I found this on www.behealthy.com

Oxalic acid is very high in leafy green vegetables; spinach, mustard greens, Swiss chard, beet greens, turnip greens, kale, collards and broad-leafed sorrel. This acid is the ingredient that keeps the function of the colon healthy. This means proper beating function. It is important that this oxalic acid be consumed raw (organic), as when it is cooked (inorganic), it forms an interlocking compound with the calcium (even the calcium in other foods eaten at the same meal), destroying the nourishing value of both. This results in such a serious deficiency of calcium that it has been known to cause decomposition of the bones. Also, minerals frequently cannot be utilized if they become inorganic through cooking, etc. For example, iron in raw spinach may be utilized one hundred percent whereas only one-fifth of the iron in cooked spinach can be utilized by the body.
Solarliving -- I so appreciate you pursuing this until you got a satisfactory answer. So many times I've seen people read or hear something they find alarming from only one source. Then, as a result, they either alter the way they eat or begin doubting the essence of the raw diet -- that eating a variety of raw fruits and veggies (including the greens you mentioned) is the healthiest way to eat. Instead, you (and, significantly, others) proved once again that the "definitive" research studies and statistics that the "experts" rely on are based on cooked food. I wish more raw people (or, more often, people are want to be raw but are scared) would understand this.

You've created a positive, informative thread that informs us. Thanks.

[podol]

Solarliving -- I so appreciate you pursuing this until you got a satisfactory answer. So many times I've seen people read or hear something they find alarming from only one source. Then, as a result, they either alter the way they eat or begin doubting the essence of the raw diet -- that eating a variety of raw fruits and veggies (including the greens you mentioned) is the healthiest way to eat. Instead, you (and, significantly, others) proved once again that the "definitive" research studies and statistics that the "experts" rely on are based on cooked food. I wish more raw people (or, more often, people are want to be raw but are scared) would understand this.

You've created a positive, informative thread that informs us. Thanks.

Agree,
Even if it would be a "negative" or rather warning information, it still would be a very produtive thread.
I am also concern about goiterous (spelling) veggies. Would like to hear opinions and/or experience. I do have an underactive thyroid.

[Arky]

Podol,

I assume you are already aware of this, but if you suffer from Hypothyroidism, then do be very diligent in avoiding soy products, particularly non-fermented soy products (a little fermented soy is nothing to be overly-concerned about). This is because Soy, in it's many guises, is a highly-potent thyroid suppressant.

If you'd like to do more reading on this subject, then a good place to start would be the following:

http://www.mercola.com/forms/whole_soy_story.htm

www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/thyroid.htm (be sure to explore the rest of this site, too)

The soy issue is something of a political 'hot potato', owing to the power of the Soy industry, but everyone should know both sides of the story, not just the all-pervasive pro-Soy propaganda, given the enormous pro-soy campaigning in recent years. If one still decides to include Soy in one's diet, then fair enough, but at least let it be from a properly-informed standpoint.

I owe my own awareness of this issue to Michael Barbee's book 'Politically Incorrect Nutrition: Finding Reality in the Mire of Food Industry Propaganda', which, while not subscribing to the RAW (or even Vegetarian) ethos, is a very informative and eye-opening book that I would generally recommend. Incidentally, this book also includes discussion on some of the potential pitfalls of the vegetarian & vegan diets, for better or worse.


HTH,

J.