RAW whole milk

[rawfood_newbie]

Hi,

Quick question on RAW whole milk. I understand that this a vegan site and no animal based food is allowed in a vegan diet. But, just wanted to ask why is RAW whole milk considered not good in a vegan diet? As you guys know, RAW whole milk has all the good and beneficial bacteria and all the living enzymes in it.

Please advice.

Thanks.

[Raw Yogini]

I have read a couple of non vegan raw books in which the author states they drink raw milk and state it has benefits.

[IamLoved]

Milk is very mucous forming. Also when a cow is milked it is not just the milk that comes out. Blood and pus are also evident in cows milk. Yum!
Once a human being is passed weaning age we no longer need milk. It does not provide our bodies with calcium. Check out the book "Don't Drink Your Milk" by Frank Oski for milk facts. I do not agree with everything he states in this book as he advocates drinking soy milk, but he breaks down what is wrong with drinking milk pretty good.

[Mialsse]

Vegans don't consume products derived from animals.... ie: meat, eggs, dairy, or any animals by-product (such as honey, whey, etc). Of course it depends on how strict you are in your own personal principals, but as a general rule of thumb... "no animals products - whatsoever", is usually the philosophy a Vegan embraces.

Also ... "good" is a matter of opinion. I don't so much see cow milk, raw or otherwise, as being "good" for me... on many different levels. Aside from the health risks of consuming dairy (which are pretty scary), there's also the "ick" factor. A momma cow produces milk to feed her calves. Just as a human mother produces milk to feed her children. It's thought of as absurd for a human to pump, bottle, market and sell her breastmilk to the general public, right? ;) Just as ridiculous to do such with the milk of any other animal, in my opinion.

What it boils down to is your own personal preference and limits. You can be raw without having to attach veganism to it ... most of them enjoy raw dairy, eggs and meat (though not talked about or supported here on this board, with good reason). Veganism is something entirely different.

[Revvell]

Check out http://notmilk.com/.

Revvell

[Clare]

Originally, I went raw for Lent and gave up dairy and meat so it has now been a few months. Prior to that I was a big raw milk drinker, as I had to find raw goat milk for my adopted babies (much more humane and healthy than the powders). I know all the supposed benefits of raw milk, however, all it did for me was create this desire for more and more milk. I really "loved" it, but I have more peace with my food (and my skin!) giving up the dairy - even the raw happy critter stuff. My two-year-old couldn't get enough of it, and now that he is on veggie milks, he drinks a more moderate amount and is finally losing the extra baby chub. He is Eastern European and little brother is African-American and never really wanted much milk once he started eating. He much prefers the veggie milks now that he's over a year old. I just think it's interesting given that West Africans have never really had dairy animals so it's even more unnatural for my baby to keep on drinking animal milk that he doesn't even want.

Last week a friend offered me some raw milk at her house. In a moment of weakness, I drank a little. Within half an hour I had swollen glands and a nasty headache with runny nose. So I guess it's not for me.

[juliebove]

Why does this keep getting posted?

[klomasius]

Why does this keep getting posted?

I guess because people come in, are new to the forum and/or the raw food lifestyle and want to know the reasons raw vegans don't drink raw milk. Is this covered in the FAQ?

My 2 cents...

Raw milk might be (marginally) better than pasteurized milk, but it's still got quite a number of problems as others have pointed out. Healthwise, moral, environmental etc.

Also, any animal products contain a number of chemicals and substances that are often found in cooked food. Essentially, animal products, though raw, have been 'cooked' in the general day to day metabolic activity of the animal.

These substances include, among others, advanced glycation end products, or AGEs, which have been linked to diabetes, premature ageing, and other medical disorders.

These are the same chemicals that get made when sugars are caramelised (i.e. in the BBQing of meat, or the caramalising of sugar), and are notorious for being some of the main instigators for ageing people and making them unhealthy.

There are many other chemical reasons, but it's pretty complicated and one example is probably enough! ;)

[juliebove]

I guess because people come in, are new to the forum and/or the raw food lifestyle and want to know the reasons raw vegans don't drink raw milk. Is this covered in the FAQ?

My 2 cents...

Raw milk might be (marginally) better than pasteurized milk, but it's still got quite a number of problems as others have pointed out. Healthwise, moral, environmental etc.

Also, any animal products contain a number of chemicals and substances that are often found in cooked food. Essentially, animal products, though raw, have been 'cooked' in the general day to day metabolic activity of the animal.

These substances include, among others, advanced glycation end products, or AGEs, which have been linked to diabetes, premature ageing, and other medical disorders.

These are the same chemicals that get made when sugars are caramelised (i.e. in the BBQing of meat, or the caramalising of sugar), and are notorious for being some of the main instigators for ageing people and making them unhealthy.

There are many other chemical reasons, but it's pretty complicated and one example is probably enough! ;)

This is a vegan forum and it says in the posting guidelines not to discuss animal products.

[klomasius]

Fair enough!

I'm happy to answer any questions on why I don't eat the stuff though. I'm pretty secure in the decision not to. But if mods don't want the thread to continue I've no probs with that.

[Revvell]

Why does this keep getting posted?

This is the original thread. I think maybe the powers-that-be looked at it and decided it was a good thing.

[rawfood_newbie]

If people think that this question has already been answered, a pointer to the thread would have definitely helped.

Btw, this thread was removed suddenly and I got a notification from the site admin apologizing about it and assuring me to reinstate the thread back which she did. I appreciate her action and I will make sure that I don't ask any non-vegan specific questions if people feel it is offending.

Thanks.

[Apasaraw]

I am not offended by questions...I think it was a good one. Welcome to the board!

I agree, we need a sticky or something. Some people wander in via Google and don't know Alissa's philosophy. But let's not jump down their gullets for asking a question that can be answered with raw kindness.

My 2cents. (Why is there no cent symbol on the keyboards anymore? sigh!)

[Stina]

I experimented and made up my own mind on this topic based on my own experiences.

I'd eaten 100% purely raw food for over two months. I was clean and feeling wonderful. I went to visit a farmer friend to raid his garden. He had raw goat milk cheese that he'd lovingly made. Couldn't have been a more quality dairy product. I ate a small amount and God was it good. But then it was like a curtain came down in my head. I felt distinctly stoned. Lost my mental clarity and felt sluggish. apparently my body's mucuous feedback to the lactose. Lost my natural spiritual high I get with the raw veganism. Gotta pass on that. No judgement for those who feel they thrive on it. but if someone digs it, please find the appropriate board to explore the topic.

[Riiiya]

thanks for the NOTMILK link! great info!

[Veganforlife]

My opinion? It just plain grosses me out suckling from another species. And we humans (thinking we are superior [ahem...apparently not :cool: ]) are the ONLY ones that doe that...all for the sake of money...

[RawSinger]

Interesting stuff about dairy:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2348910096409126100

[zig_zag]

My opinion? It just plain grosses me out suckling from another species. And we humans (thinking we are superior [ahem...apparently not :cool: ]) are the ONLY ones that doe that...all for the sake of money...

I'm not condoning dairy or anything, but I have to ask; do indigenous tribes (who existed way before the times of commercialism, pasteurization, processing and hwat not)do it "for the sake of money", too?

[rawfoodistdavid]

It's made for baby cows. Other species don't go drinking milk from other creatures.

No one with any IBS-type issues or sinusitis or stuffiness should be touching milk, raw or otherwise.

That said, many say goat's milk is less problematic. Goats milk-based creams can be very good or psoriasis.

Still, I'm vegan all the way.

[shashibala]

Here are my two cents on the raw milk question. People have survived and thrived on many types of diets.We are highly adaptable. Plant foods are ideal and allow us to live in a high energy state, but some animal foods have been used throughout the centuries to supplement when needed. There are tribes in Africa who seem to thrive on mainly cow products. Eskimos really could not survive without animal foods. In many places, and here just a few generations ago, animal foods (dairy) were used in small amounts and in a more natural state. They were expensive and labor intensive, so they were not overused. People were directly connected to the source and therefor did not overuse and abuse their animal helpers in most cases. Then came the industrialization of farming.(actually, the industrialization of everything) Animals are now treated in horrific ways, animal products are widely available and are heated/processed, dairy is subsidized and marketed aggressively. This has lead to a terrible situation of abuse, overuse, and processing in ways that make these products very unhealthy for human consumption. Raw milk is healthier than heated milk, but it is still not ideal.
I do not advocate eating animal products and have been a staunch vegetarian since the age of 12. We are extremely lucky to live in a place where we can choose our foods based on our ethical beliefs, our desires, and their nutritional value, rather than on what we have available to keep us alive. We are fortunate to be able to read things like the China Study that clearly show the dangers of our current failed dietary experiment. Because I have that choice, I choose that no other creature should suffer for my nourishment. I choose to be vegan because it is the most compassionate path, in my opinion.
I am also healing from asthma and any dairy makes my asthma return!
Read The China Study. It is fascinating! If you must use dairy, choose unprocessed products from animals who are cared for gently and lovingly.
My hope is that globally, we are moving toward a kinder,gentler, plant based diet that will heal us and our planet!