Becoming Too Pure?

[RawkStar]

A week ago Matt Monarch posted an excerpt from his book Raw Success, and I have to say it was the most discouraging piece I have ever read regarding raw foods. Nothing has put me off raw more than reading this. Essentially, he says after years of raw one can become very pure, and that pureness is dangerous when it comes to modern living--that a simple IV drug can result in serious consequences. He even goes as far as wearing allergy tags for any and all pharmaceutical/intra venous medications. That's all fine and dandy, but what if you are in a major car accident and require life saving surgery? I would like more children, but I have had all c-sections to date. Does this mean I have to choose raw food over future children? He does say that 99% of the people reading the book won't need to wear the tags he does. Why? Because we haven't been raw for as long as he has? Fair enough--and most likely true--but what happens years down the road?

Here is the excerpt he posted on his blog. I am not attacking raw foods or Matt Monarch--I know raw foods is what my body needs to heal, but this has me very scared. I just want to know if people have experienced what he is talking about, or if this is all hyperbole.

Here is that excerpt from Raw Spirit:

Medical Drugs, Recreational Drugs, Cigarettes, and Alcohol

The chemistry and condition of one who has lived Raw for many years has reached a level of unparalleled sensitivity. What scares me the most about being Raw long-term is our increasing vulnerability to concentrated chemicals that in this day and age are used in minor surgeries, routine medical testing, and emergency procedures. When someone gets into a nasty car accident or medical emergency, doctors often use intravenous drugs in treatment. For the long-term 100% Raw Foodist, those concentrated chemicals can present a problem.

Here is a comparison: a person doing narcotics for 15 years has built up a certain tolerance and can handle much more than an individual trying them for the first time. In much the same way, a Raw Foodist is like a first time user. But the drug in this case is not crack or heroine; it is Western medicine.

What about raising children Raw? Imagine that you have a 10 year old child who has been 100% Raw since birth. He would be so clean and tight on a cellular level that it could be dangerous for him. Let’s say, for example, that he just met some new friends and is tempted to eat a hamburger. One or two bites and he may end up in the hospital. Raw children must be well educated about how their chemistry is different from the mass majority. And what about the possibility of your child in a car accident? If your Raw Foodist son or daughter was given a concentrated chemical such as morphine, there is a possibility that he or she could experience serious side effects.

There are special medical tags that withhold permission for use of hospital drugs. I have one that I wear around my neck, it reads: anaphylactic to pharmaceutical and intravenous drugs. Wearing this tag is a serious choice with life or death consequences. One would not want to revoke medical assistance unless they were sure their body was at the point where it would do more harm then good. 99% of those reading this book will not need to wear a medical tag. Although I want to share all the information I can, I do not and cannot accept liability for anyone who may choose to withhold permission for use of hospital drugs.

What about pets? The same rules of sensitivity apply to pets on an all Raw Diet. I just heard a story recently about a man and his dog. The poor dog was limping and had cyst-like bumps all over his skin, both signs indicating an overly toxic system. The Veterinarian said the dog's leg would need to be amputated. Desperate for an alternative, the man started feeding his dog all raw foods, including raw meat. On this 100% Raw Diet, the dog was back to normal in no time, and all the bumps disappeared. The man continued feeding his dog raw foods and many years later when the animal needed to be brought in for age related problems, the Veterinarian suggested a drug that might help. Even though the man didn’t feel good about it, he gave his permission. A few hours later, the dog died.

We all know that recreational drugs such as marijuana, cigarettes, and alcohol are not good for us. For someone that eats a Raw Diet, the harmful effects from these types of drugs are multiplied. If someone has a chronic substance addiction or habit, it is best for him or her to not become 100% Raw until they are through their addictions.

I met a woman the other day who was a chain smoking Raw Foodist. She doesn’t realize how much more harmful smoking is for her than the average person. If I were her, I would choose to either quit smoking or stop being 100% Raw. In my own experience, it’s painfully obvious that being around cigarette smoke hurts me a great deal more now then when I ate cooked food. When I became a Raw Foodist I stopped partying. Honestly, I just lost the taste for it. I remember the first drink of alcohol I had after becoming Raw. It was a small glass of natural, organic red wine. I didn't get tipsy or drunk; I got ill. My body can no longer handle alcohol, even if I wanted it to.

[rande]

i absolutely love and appreciate matts blog actually~ he tells it like it is and it seems that many raw food authors are afraid to speak of the pitfalls one can encounter when going raw. his blog post didnt freak me out so much as it just made me cautious. i truly don't believe we need to be 100 percent raw to be healthy (although i go for weeks at a time all raw, i feel ok including some organic cooked vegetables a few times a week if i want to). i know theres a lot of hype surrounding a hundred percent raw, and also thats what alissa advocates, and really at some point i did have to go a hundred percent raw for awhile to get cravings out of the way. now i'm a little more lenient, but i feel awesome! don't let it worry you, he's really just trying to say the things that so many people won't.

[EZ rider]

I think the difference between pure raw and anything less can be viewed like a tank of water that is clean and easy to see through versus one contaminated with impurities and difficult to see through. It is a matter of degrees. If a pure see through tank has even a small amount of impure stuff added it shows up very quickly but if an already polluted tank that has limited visibility has the same impurities added to it you could hardly tell the difference. I guess its something everyone who becomes less polluted and more clear will have to deal with to some degree.

[DavidZaneMason]

I hear your concern. But what are YOU going to do? You can't NOT improve your eyesight...just because you might see something you don't like! LOL. You can't NOT be happy....just because others are sad.....you certainly wouldn't be doing them any favors! Consequently, you shouldn't avoid pursuing your dreams of health. I'm sure when you choose to have children...or pursue any other opportunities in life....you'll find a way to do it healthy and responsibly. Just focus on your goals - and putting one foot in front of the other - you know? Don't get psyched out by what some guru says....even one I respect as much as Matt. His words are useless to you if you interpret them and act on them fearfully. You know? Just my opinions/thoughts.

-David Z. Mason

[RawHeaven]

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[Rawmommie]

I agree with what others have said...you can't sit around worrying, you just have to do what is best for your body and that is raw!

I had surgery last year and at the time I had been raw 2 years. I had no adverse reactions to the anesthesia at all, although I did get constipated (but this happened when I was a cooked eater too, just how my body reacts). I was given antibiotics b/c I had surgery and took them for a little bit (under duress) but didn't finish them b/c I didn't feel comfortable. I don't think raw will hinder my care if something happens to me, yes, I might be more sensitive to drugs, but I don't think it would be so adverse that I couldn't handle it. In most aspects, being raw helps you HEAL faster! :)

[Rawkinlocs]

LOL! This is funny. I can understand to an extent what Matt is saying but at the same token, unless one lived in a bubble...completely and utterly incapable of exposure to ANYTHING that isn't pure, then this isn't something you should be too overly concerned about.

Granted, yes the more pure of a diet and lifestyle we have, the more sensitive we become to other things (I cannot stand the smell of perfume anymore and my intolerance for cigarette smoke has heightened as well) but firstly, why even live in the future? Live today...live each day and ENJOY each day that you are granted to be here! Tomorrow is not here nor is it promised to any of us so we can only do our best each day.

Having said that...we do not live in a perfect, pristine, crystal clear world. The produce we eat (even IF labeled organic) isn't guaranteed to be pure. The water we drink isn't guaranteed pure (even if we reverse osmosis it or distill it or filter it or whatever the "newest" method of "purifying" it is). The air we breathe sure as HECK isn't pure. We are sitting in front of computers for a great bulk of our days, talk on cell phones, drive cars, etc. etc. So we are not in danger of becoming "too pure" IMHO no matter what we decide to no longer INTENTIONALLY put into our bodies or not put in them. We're just scratching the surface by eating raw foods but there are still impurities all around us and again, even in our "pure" raw foods...even the purest of 'em!

The very stress you're feeling about Matt's writings is probably more dangerous than you eating an all-raw diet and being in danger of an allegedly fatal IV or any other medical treatment.

So my personal advice? Take it with a grain of salt...if you're a praying person, pray and just trust and do what you feel is right and good for your own body and don't fear what tomorrow may (key word here, "MAY") bring. It's just as likely that we could leave this earth due to an automobile accident or a "natural disaster" or something...but we cannot and should not live in fear!

[Betsy]

Wow, Rawkinlocks!!:eek:

That was so eloquently spoken, and such great grammar!! Can tell you are well schooled. I couldn't have said it better meself.

Ditto!

[Baby Bird]

Hey Rawkstar!

I FEEL YA! This was the same book that really turned me off raw a year and a half ago. Personally, I interpret it as a superiority complex. "Purer than thou". Maybe at some point in the future, I'll feel differently, but for now, that book is off my book shelf (sold it to someone else!). He also talks about home colonics:eek:

I think other folks have said it well: Don't stress about someone else's interpretation of a raw lifestyle. Do what feels good for you. Enjoy this. Don't take somebody else's word for it, just because they've self published a book. You have every reason and right to pick and choose the things that ring true for YOU. This is your journey!

[Aleesha Sattva]

it is also important to remember this is matt's opinion. just because he says it does NOT make it so!

just like... if i tell you something, it doesn't mean it's right and true for everyone... it is only saying i believe it to be true for me.

so ya, take it with a grain of salt... accept what resonates within you and toss out the rest :)

[RawkStar]

Thank you all for responding. You have made comments that have really resonated with me. To be honest, and without wanting to offend his many friends and fans on this board, Mat is not my favorite raw guru out there. I normally...don't seek out his opinions. But, when I read this...it just completely played on my emotions and all I could picture is my two boys without their mama. :o I know it sound illogical, but I would live in poorer health for them to avoid "risking" catastrophic drug reactions for something as simple as, say, a routine c-section. Even typing that out...it makes no sense and sounds crazy. I'm hoping there's a mom out their who understands what I am trying to say. :o

Rawmommie--yours is exactly the type of anecdote I wanted to hear. It's good to hear that you survived surgery after a raw lifestyle for several years. ;)

Rawkinlocs--you pretty much touched upon points I would have had I not been so emotional. Some things don't make sense to me--raw foods give us incredible resistance against disease and germ warfare, but we can't tolerate morphine? I think it's as I suspected: a wee bit of hyperbole.

Baby Bird--glad to know I wasn't the only one so put off by this book. I've only read the excerpt, but that was enough for me. :)

Recycling Goddess-- "just because he says it does NOT make it so!" An obvious statement, but one I needed to hear all the same. He may have 8 years of raw under his belt, but to the best of my knowledge he is not a trained medical professional.

Thanks everyone for telling me, in the nicest way possible, to lighten up!

[fuggles]

Basically, he's saying that it's all or nothing, including cosmetics and shampoos etc. ??

Also, what happens when the its the other way around ? Like a person who eats pizzas and doughnuts all day is given some goji berries, what would happen ?

[RollinRaw]

Soemtimes you will meet all or nothing people. I beleive a raw lifestyle has far more benefits than not. (I wouldn't be here.) Furthermore, no ones body is the same as anothers so who's to say that the same would be true for you, me, or another person. Some folks bodies are extra sensitive to things without the rawness.

No disrespect meant to anyone but, it sounds to me like someone has taken something WAAAAY over the top. So please don't worry or stress about such things, that worry and stress stuff can hurt you far faster than a neccesary pharmaceutical ever will.

JMHO:)

[RollinRaw]

Basically, he's saying that it's all or nothing, including cosmetics and shampoos etc. ??

Also, what happens when the its the other way around ? Like a person who eats pizzas and doughnuts all day is given some goji berries, what would happen ?

momentary enlightenment??:p

[earth_sista]

momentary enlightenment??:p


hahaha!!!

i agree, totally with Rawkinlocs. we do not live in bubbles. just continue to enjoy eating raw. you'll be fine, im sure :)

[fuggles]

I agree, I doubt many people are consumed by thoughts like 'what if I get run over and and given non natural medicine by the ambulance van', people are thinking about other things.

[Pennypower]

I have to say, I think Matt is a great guy, but even he himself admits to taking things to the extreme. He said in one of his interviews, if I remember correctly, that he was so afraid of eating impure things that he wouldn't even eat at raw restaurants, and that he was EXTREMELY fanatical about what he ate out of fear for several years.
Also, I think if you are really pure and clean and your body wanted to reject the drugs, you would show signs of that pretty quickly and the doctors would catch on.

[Nurse in the Raw]

I look at it this way. If you are in metabolic or respiratory acidosis and sodium bicarb (by IV) is the only treatment that will balance your pH.....are you going to chose an apple over the IV? I don't think so! You are going to stick your arm out and beg me for the bicarb. Raw is of no use to anyone if they are in a coma because they refuse to let us correct their acidosis. We will honor the wishes of anyone who refuses medical attention, but if they die as a result....it's not our fault.

IMO, wearing a medical alert bracelet/necklace refusing life saving medical treatment is a death sentence. It's like carrying a DNR (do not resuscitate) sign on your body at all times.

[RawkStar]

I look at it this way. If you are in metabolic or respiratory acidosis and sodium bicarb (by IV) is the only treatment that will balance your pH.....are you going to chose an apple over the IV? I don't think so! You are going to stick your arm out and beg me for the bicarb. Raw is of no use to anyone if they are in a coma because they refuse to let us correct their acidosis. We will honor the wishes of anyone who refuses medical attention, but if they die as a result....it's not our fault.

IMO, wearing a medical alert bracelet/necklace refusing life saving medical treatment is a death sentence. It's like carrying a DNR (do not resuscitate) sign on your body at all times.

I worked in the medical field for 10 years, and couldn't agree more. I was hoping you would post.

I'm glad that everyone seems to agree with my thinking on this (after I got over my initial emotional state). I think we are all thinking the same thing, whether or not we "say it" out loud.

Pennypower--yes, he does seem a bit fanatical, and a fear of food is a whole other ball of wax that requires internal reflection, if not professional counseling.

[Betsy]

I just hav'ta say that this thread makes me feel comfortable. Guess probably the reason is, is that I am sorta seeing myself becoming too "pure" so-to-speak about MY food choices if it weren't for this informative thread. This thread has helped me put things into proper prospective for the unknown future none of us know about. It's nice to know we can survive the medical community as well as all the others we deal with in our lifettimes. Afterall, this is the whole point of going raw, to be adaptable to any environment in a healthy way, and to survive the worst of times with better physical/mental/emotional strength gained from the raw food experiance.

[NYbutterfly]

Yeah, when I read Matt's book I actually was disappointed and wanted my money back! Although I enjoy his newsletters and website, I didn't like the fear tactics used in the book about wearing the medical bracelet and how some raw foodists are SO pure that they die bc they cannot handle everyday pollutants. I also don't like all that fear of fruit... that it can make you fat. He only has fruit on days that he runs for miles and miles? I was SO scared to eat fruit after reading the book, then I thought... I can't believe I am treating something so wonderful as fruit like it's a doughnut or something! Ridiculous!

To each his own, right?

[jacsam]

My daughter just had surgery (severe broken arm) and she has been highly sensitive to all medications from the day she was born. (perscribed or over the counter) I explained to every nurse and doctor that helped her, about her sensitivity and they proceeded slowly and lightly with all medications and found that in many cases only 20% of a dose of pain medication worked just like a regular dose would for most people. I found them very willing to listen and really want to do what was best for my daughter and I tryed to express my gratitude for their help. This is where having a loved one with you when your ill is very valuable. They know you well enough to help the professionals working with you be as informed as possible, so they can make the best decisions as they can for your care. I was very pleased with the care my daughter recieved.

[shakti17]

honestly, living in an urban area, i find that raw foods helps me to handle pollution. ie i notice a major difference in my breathing from simply chewing a few blades of wheatgrass.

of course, one day i hope to live in a cleaner environment - my choice.

i d not think about such things.....

[RawHeaven]

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[Carlsbad]

I had the same reaction as Butterfly when I read Matt's book--I wanted my money back! I love his fiancee Angela, but I think he is too extreme for me. He has several chapters about how you have to eat only a certain quantity of food each day, and your meals should be pretty much the same each day (he varies his juices). He even tells a story about a man who ate 12 oz of food a day for years and then one day ate 16 oz of food and almost died. I'm sorry, but my common sense just rebels at that one. As Alissa says, raw food is restrictive enough, so why try to put more and more rules on it?

In reading Matt's blogs and books, I noticed that he seems very focused on raw foods as a way to live a longer life. Because several raw food pioneers have passed away at "normal" ages (i.e. they're not living longer than the average SAD eater), he seems to be working on finding a way to eat raw food and live as long as possible. That is not the reason I am eating raw foods. I am eating them so that I can live my healthiest, every day, now, as Rawkinlocs said. I'm not that interested in living longer than other people. Instead, I want to live life to the fullest right now, and that's why I love raw foods. Plus, if I can't eat what I want when I want, what's the good of a couple of extra years anyway? :p

I think that it is important to research as much as you can about raw foods, but it's also important to listen to the people whose goals match yours. Alissa's goals for raw food match my own, so I respect and appreciate her advice and experience. Matt's goals do not match mine at all, so I don't put much faith in what he says.

That's just my two cents. Sorry it was so long winded, but that book has been bothering my brain for a few weeks now!

[tanishamarshall]

This is what Patenaude has to say in his book about the purer body:

"If you take less than a fatal dose of poison everyday, after six months you could take a more than fatal one and survive. The body will resist the poison by avoiding absorption at all cost. But this also means that general nutrient absorption will be diminished."

&

"When you begin a clean diet based on fruits and vegetables, you are no longer taking a lot of popular poisons: coffee, chocolate, cigarettes, spices, food preservatives, etc. Your body rejects accumulated poisons and goes back to a more original, pure state!— like that of a child. In other words, you will be like the beginner, before he starts to take his daily dose of poison, which means that you will be much more affected, and penalized, by small doses of poisons than most people. A cup of coffee could have the same effect on you as five cups has on your neighbor. You will be more affected by what you eat, especially if you go off your new diet."

All I can say is that it makes perfect sense to me!

Makes sense to me as well.

[fjernsyn]

I was given antibiotics b/c I had surgery and took them for a little bit (under duress) but didn't finish them b/c I didn't feel comfortable.

Yikes! I was expecting someone to respond to this. Isn't not finishing a round of antibiotics a REALLY bad idea? Like not just for you but for humans in general? It's my understanding that you either need to not take them or finish them. Anyone have a different understanding?

[Pistachios]

Animals in the wild that eat 100% uncooked food do not live in sterile environments and often not in pristine settings either, yet that does not hinder them from living to their fullest.

If taken from their natural habitat, placed in captivity and fed by humans (as happens in a zoo or circus), it is likely that their meals would likely not be the same type or quality as in the wild. Often in these settings they are given immunizations and treated by veterinarians, have surgeries, dental work, etc.
Yet, despite the drastic changes they still adapt to the new environment, diet and all.

The human body is very resilient unless its defense (immune) system or other health conditions is already experiencing problems and can also adapt to changes or crises, including a 'downgrade' as it were of one's diet.

[velocycling]

"I have one that I wear around my neck, it reads: anaphylactic to pharmaceutical and intravenous drugs. Wearing this tag is a serious choice with life or death consequences."

This theory is seriously flawed. No matter how Matt eats, he will never eat as raw as a completely wild animal. He theory to be true, all wild animals given anti-biotics or any medications would die. Vets would never be able to treat and rehabiltate any animals in the wild. That being said people can be more sensitive to certain medications and discussing this with your doctor is always a good idea.

[MrsJohnnyG]

When I first learned about raw foodism about 10 years ago, a friend of mine who became 100% raw for a couple of years eventually had to stop for similar reasons... various things were making her sick. Constantly. I believe she is still at least 50% raw but she added cooked foods and (horrors!) free-range hormone-free chicken and beef, and she was then able to get pregnant after not being able to conceive, was not sick any more, etc.
Seeing what happened with her on 100% was actually the reason I didn't try the raw way of life back then.

That said, I made the decision to do 100% raw for certain periods of time (i.e. several weeks) but currently plan to intersperse that with phases of high raw... I already get sick smelling a whiff of cigarette smoke and can't imagine starting to feel nauseous all the time with various things I'm bound to encounter in a metropolitan area.

Obviously, the good that raw does for you counterbalances so much of the bad... i.e. giving you a stronger immune system etc. But, I can definitely see the argument against going 100% raw for 100% of the rest of my life.

Rawkinlocs - VERY well said!

[Raspberry4]

I understand your concerns. That is one reason why I have stopped reading alot of other people's info and just focus on what I know to be true about raw foods and their ability to heal. Those things he speaks of can and do happen to SAD people all the time. SAD people react to meds the same way too. It is mostly a matter of each individual's system. No one can guarantee what will happen. I do know that when I was eating SAD and had pneumonia I had to have two different antibiotics in order to combat it - probably because all the antibiotics in the sad meat I was eating was interfering with the efficacy of the ones I was taking. All I know is that when my SAD eaters contracted a virus that caused coughing for 6 weeks or more this past winter, I did not get it and I contribute it to eating raw (God too) . I just don't think it is in our best interest for his writing to be so alarming. We are doing the best we can for our bodies and the world around us. Good luck to you.

[Revvell]

I'll be interviewing Matt next month. If you have questions, just direct them to SpillYourBeans@RawkinRadio.com and I will ask him directly. How's that?

[coco]

well, i can't say that i have ever read any of matt's stuff. i generally just go with what feels right to me, the idea of a guru, raw or otherwise, is a bit of a turn off to me.

but, in my own experience with raw i gotta say, after less than a year at 100% (following a lifetime of very healthy living) i became so sensitive to everything around me that it was nearly unbearable. and i had to be very, very careful what i ate. VERY! heaven help me if i got a migraine, the injections i used to take for those might have done me in. and i couldn't take the noise of the city, the vibration of all the electrical energy around me (i lived in toronto during the three day city wide electrical black out and it was a WORLD of difference with the power out), the smell of traffic and other smells, perfume etc. it was crazy making! i moved to a more rural area but i had to stop being 100% raw. it just doesn't appeal to me at all anymore, it creates way, way too much difficulty in my life. i have children and we spend a lot of time with family and friends who are not raw and i prefer not to have diet be an issue at all with them. everyone respects our vegetarianism but even veganism is too much for most people to handle. i would be constantly asking for a list of ingredients whenever anyone offered us anything to eat. i don't bother, i just eat it. it's enough that we are very raw vegan at home. it's enough. and i can take the stress of traffic and lots of people and smells and using my mom's bathing products on myself and the kids when we're at her house. i still can't stand scented laundry stuff though, it gives me a headache. other strong perfumy odors too. but at least i can exist in society at large without it being a daily torment.

[avanderland]

I haven't been raw long enough to testify one way or the other, but from reading everyone else's responses, it sounds like a lot of mind over matter. It seems like that is the truth about raw in general.

What I mean is... If you think that raw is only going to make life better, more full, more vibrant, then it seems like it does. It will be rewarding and doable. If you are afraid of your "pureness," of others' thoughts, of medicine (to the point where you would risk your life over it), then it will be a path of fear and paranoia --- and basically everything not fun. If you think something will cause you harm, it will cause you harm. If you tell your body, we cannot handle this, whatever it may be, it will not be able to handle it. It will be punishing and undoable.

I also agree with what others have said --- especially Rawkinlocs --- our bodies can never be 100% pure in today's worlds. I don't see how all of a sudden medicines could become deadly when we have carcinogens and electromagnetic and all that stuff entering our bodies every day, whether we like it or not. I think of raw as the the healthy thing that I am abe to control -- so that my body will be better able to cope with everything else. In fact, the only medicine I still take seems to work BETTER now that I am raw --- and is not killing me. You can always decide to suggest lower starting doses, as the parent above with their child, and it's always good to monitor yourself carefully, but I don't think we need to risk our lives in avoidance when we really might need doctors. (I'm not talking about going in for an every day cold or something, I mean if something serious happens, like a bone breaks and is sticking out the skin.)

[Revvell]

Good post avanderland.

I don't know if I was always sensitive (probably) to drugs from my dentist but now, if I NEED any local anesthesia, I tell him to only do 1/3 of what he would normally do. Takes me only one day to recover rather than 3.

[domestic goddess]

I also do not think one needs to be 'pure and raw' to be sensitive to all the things mentioned here. My eldest son is SEVERELY chemically sensitive (smells) and he is not raw. I am very sensitive to meds otc and rx and always have been and I've only been 'mostly' raw for about a year. I, too was disappointed with his book as that extremist mentality is a big turn-off to me. Imagine if that was the first raw book/info you read! Those people would run screaming from the raw lifestyle, lol. Places like here and soome of the more motivational books are going to encourage more balanced raw living.

Just my .02 :D

[Care4raw]

For me raw is making my system stronger. My bodies natural ability to maintain self healing and the fact that we are all physically constantly in a state of..

Homeostatis; the ability of a living organism to regulate its internal enviroment so as to maintain a stable,constant,condition. This dynamic equilibruim is happening constantly in our bodies.

We are constantly self regulating as we always exposed to disease, etc..

It seems to me those most harmed are those ingesting drugs, food toxins and exposing themselves unnecc to enviromental toxins; its the overload (not the elimination of these) where disease and chemical sensitivity happens, and the body breaks down.

As far as less is more when taking drugs, if necc...thats a good thing.And we will have a stronger immunity system to self regulate when we do.

[beckx]

Basically, he's saying that it's all or nothing, including cosmetics and shampoos etc. ??

Also, what happens when the its the other way around ? Like a person who eats pizzas and doughnuts all day is given some goji berries, what would happen ?

funny you mentioned that; i could have sworn i've read matt himself say he uses dove bar soap in the shower. i could be wrong or he may have given up since... but just saying. with all of his talk about being so pure i remember specifically thinking, "oh my goodness, you don't whither up and die if chemical bar soap touches you? you don't get a hangover the next day?" ;) but i think that's important to say, because we all do what we can and the 'raw gurus' aren't perfect either.

i may have already replied to this thread but i would take what anybody tells you about your body with a grain of salt, because YOU are the expert on your body, not matt monarch or david wolfe or anyone else. they can only speak from their experience. i live in the city. i work around computers probably far too much. i bicycle alongside traffic. i don't know if i can ever reach the 'too pure' state - i'm constantly exposed to toxins that i can't do anything about and have a different experience than someone living in clean air. and do i stress about it? why bother.

[missvitreous]

I agree with some of the posts here; it's mind over matter. I live in the city during the school year. I did get more sensitive to car exhaust, and other things, but I couldn't do anything about it, and it's not that much of a big deal. Getting paranoid about these things never does any good. And besides, wouldn't a "pure" body be better able to heal itself? Just some food for thought. :)

[molliegirl]

I am new to this forum and first of all, I am really impressed with the maturity and lack of personal attack that is so characteristic of this community, as especially evidenced by this particular thread that deals with what I would consider the main debate among raw foodists, and the one of primary importance when undertaking this lifestyle. So thank you all for that.

I haven't yet begun my raw journey, as I am still in the research phase! :)... But I'd just like to say that there are several websites out there that agree with Matt's perspective and it is in my opinion of vital importance that everyone considers all sides of this issue. I know what you may be thinking: of course I am considering all sides of this issue: I'm reading this thread! But after reading many pages of posts from this and other raw food forums, I suspect that there are a few people out there who haven't considered the "other side" (the less is more, don't be 100% raw) seriously. After all, it is human nature to want a cure-all, and want to be extremist (not that 100% raw is necessarily extremist, but...)... and if you've personally experienced many benefits from raw food, its hard to believe that later down the road there may be deficiencies, or drawbacks. However, there are enough stories on this board alone regarding oversensitivity that everyone should at some point along their journey consider whether they are willing to live with those or not, when and if they occur, or whether ultimately their health is benefitted more by 100% raw than with a lesser percentage. So, just a reminder for us all to keep open minds.

That said, the only thing I really disagree with in all of the amazing posts above is that SAD eaters may have the same sensitivity to drugs as raw foodists do. Overall, raw foodists are much more sensitive to toxins, though also much healthier.

Thanks for listening.

[EZ rider]

Overall, raw foodists are much more sensitive to toxins, though also much healthier.Maybe sensitivities are a good thing. Maybe they are like a red flag or a red lite telling us to stop because there is danger ahead. Opinions appreciated.

[molliegirl]

Yes, I think sensitivities are a good thing. Usually.

[FiddleMama]

I am not in any danger of ever becoming too pure as I am only 75% raw on the BEST of days. That works great for me, though. I've seen HUGE gains (and losses in terms of weight released) without having to make what feel to me to be unnecessary changes.

I think he makes a good point of the danger of drugs, alcohol, and smoking and raises an interesting possibility about what the body can handle in terms of other medical interventions. I will never understand how anyone who is interested and invested in their health can smoke. That felt like his main point to me based on that excerpt.

[RawHeaven]

I haven't been raw long enough to testify one way or the other, but from reading everyone else's responses, it sounds like a lot of mind over matter. It seems like that is the truth about raw in general.

I tend to agree with this and it's how I view life in general.

Using myself as an example. I broke a lot of bones in my leg and absolutely needed the assistance of an orthopedic surgeon. No amount of celery juice was gonna put my bones back together. I was pumped full of all kinds of drugs for almost 2 years as I healed...my body was a mess. I didn't really experience any reaction from the drugs and such because I was already toxic and also because I was focused on healing. Mind over matter indeed.

Fast forward to almost the end of my healing bones journey. I took up raw foods for the last 3 months of it, including what I hope is the last of my reconstructive bone surgeries in June '07. Not only did I bounce back extremely quickly, waking up in recovery with a smile. My body healed on a tremendous level that surprised a lot of people, especially my brilliant surgeons. I had a 6 hour knee operation and was out of the hospital in less than 2 days and walking on it in 2 weeks. Previously those numbers would have been 3 weeks in the hospital, in extreme pain for at least 6-8 weeks post surgery and miserable, high on pain medication and eating junk food.

Raw is a miracle, especially if you believe it. I saw what it can do firsthand. A reverse scenario for you. I was not impacted by the anesthesia, morphine and all of the prescription naroctic drugs the same way being a raw foodist. It made my body resilient and MUCH STRONGER. My body used what it needed for pain and purged the rest!

If you think you're going to be a pure being in an impure world and it will somehow make your life a living hell eventually, it probably will.

I am in no way discounting anyone's personal experiences, I'm just saying a lot of it, in my opinion, has much to with how you feel about any given subject and what you're projecting onto yourself and attracting to yourself with your thoughts and internal belief systems.

[Conscious Midwife]

I so get what MAtt is saying. Here is an excerpt from my blog after years of no "known" MSG intake and a week or so of RAW...

__________________________________
On 8/3 I was on a road trip headed for 6 FLags. Knowing that funnel cakes awaited me, and a hotel breakfast buffet that would have a few favorites...namely croissants, grits and cheese eggs.

I had bananas and grapes in tow, but it wasn't enough to over power the first TOXIN I would encounter.... MSG:eek: :eek:

Who knew

that a bag of baked chips would have the deadly MSG in it.... OMG

I ate a few handfuls on the road trip down to GA, skipped the soda, opted for lemonade and by 7p EST I was looking for a Urgent Care Center, Doc in the Box, First Aid Center, MASH tent or just someplace for relief. I didn't want to ruin the family trip with a long wait in the ER.... but I was in pain.

My head felt like someone had a vice grip around my face while simultaneously firing a shot gun thru the top. Vision became blurred and I could barely walk. On top of that I think I was dehydrated and definately overheated. The pain was so excrutiating I thought i'd pop a blood vessel or have an anuerisym.

It was 3am Sat morning before I felt enough relief to believe that I wasn't going to die. I was praying that I would die while at the same time negotiating that maybe death might be ok, and that if it was my time maybe I could go in my sleep.


UUUUUUUUUUUUgggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh
What a morbid night, and to think that it was self imposed.
____________________________

I've yet to be 100% RAW for 30 continuous days but one thing for sure is that I avoid MSG like the frickin plague.

I'm all about mind over matter plus a dose of frickin' common albeit "rare" sense.

Grew up enjoying MSG laiden Chinese food and accent plus garlic salt seasoning on home cooked meals, all of which included MSG. I also grew up with daily headaches and regular migraines thanks to MSG and second hand smoke.

So my mind says yeah stay the frick away from MSG and avoid second hand smoke, because it does matter to the quality of my life.

When these situations happen anyway then I visualize a bubble of protection around every cell in my body, then I get myself to some freasher air or guzzle a ton of water (in the case of MSG).

[RawSinger]

For some reason, I think we would have more to worry about if we continued to eat SAD food.

[TaupeRawMan]

I have been reading Matt's theory on blood-gas as well. My understanding from his perspective is that if you are going to be 100% raw, you need to do regular colon hydrotherapy (I have now begun weekly enema series) or you are going to feel bad and cause problems with your health. If you aren't going to do regular colon hydrotherapy, you shouldn't be 100% raw for long term or you will run into problems (according to this theory). Also, if you are 100% raw, you are going to be more sensitive to toxins and risk dying an early death from things like cooked food. I can understand his thinking, but it has me a bit paralyzed in a fear-based way of what to eat and what to do next.

I know...I should do anything based on fear, but given the way I have been feeling and the solutions people have offered (you are eating too much fat... You are eating too much fruit...You are eating too much...You aren't eating enough...Do colonics...Don't do colonics...you are eating too late in the day...so many people do raw wrong and you can seriously jeopardize your health if you are a long-term raw foodist and don't do it "right"...). I know...listen to your body... and I try to listen to my body..but I am not getting what it is saying if there is a message....

I don't know if I would feel better if I have a little cooked food regularly and if that would be better for my health. I am just so frustrated as I have been doing this so long and really believed this is the way. Why do so many other people feel so great without regularly doing colon cleanses? I know that each person is different, but I was a 20 year strict organic vegan (no sugar, no salt, no nuts, no oils) before doing this and I would think I would feel better.

Okay....I will sit down now....thanks for listening.

[yogashmoga]

thank you SO much for asking this question, and including this excerpt. this is the first book i read on raw food. no joke. i was also pretty discouraged by his words, and can't believe i have still attempted this journey.

there were also portions that highly concerned me about current relationships and friendships that are likely to change in ones transition to raw. while i understand that heading towards an all-over healthy lifestyle may lessen my desire to hit the bars with my buddies, i felt matt's language was a little extreme for my taste. i don't want to limit my close friendships to those who eat like me.

perhaps i am still "living in fear" a bit because i am concerned i will wake up one day to dreadlocks (super cool, but not me), spiritual music soley (love it, but also dig the heavy stuff), and commune life. i really hate to sound stereotypical here...but i know NO other raw foodists. i'm doing this on my own. i don't want to wake up one day to a whole-new-me. i like me :).

this being said, i remain open to wherever the divine will take me on this path. namaste, all!

[Aleesha Sattva]

remember... matt is simply a man who has an opinion. doesn't make his right (or wrong)... just makes it HIS opinion!

take what you like, what you resonate with and leave the rest :)

[rawfoodistdavid]

His theory is bonkers. If you reduce the toxic load on your body by eating better food your immune system and liver has more capacity to deal with the toxins we have less or no control over.

Raw food needs less self-appointed gurus coming up with top-of-head pet theories. It's one thing to say X, Y or Z 'really worked for me'. Another to say, 'All people should do this 'cos I say so based on my opinion - buy my book'.

Being over focussed on the micro detail of how every little substance effects you will surely turn a normal person highly neurotic and a neurotic person into a headcase.

It reminds me of a study of people claiming to suffer extreme EMF sensitivity. EMF electrosmog is a real phenonomen - sit in front of a PC all day and you feel rotten, spend a day in the open air and yopu feel good. However, some people claim instant 'attacks' (extreme headaches, palpitations, dizziness) as soon as they step near an electrical device. When they cannot see an electrical device they cannot tell wheather it's on or not despite usually suffering these incredible attacks!

Thus when people say, 'I ate some brown rice/cooked meal/glass of wine' and felt dreadful the guilt/aphrensiveness sets up a classic psychosomatic response. Not always, of course. Just sometimes.

[domestic goddess]

I have a couple thoughts.

The idea that a SAD person cannot be as sensitive as a raw person is bunk. My son, when he was not raw at al (and even now at 50-75%raw) was and is SO extremely chemically sensitive. That has not lessened or increased with his foray into raw food. That is who he is. Its a part of his being. I have been severely sensitive to just about all meds in some way (the list of things I am allergic to is rediculous) and it all occured BEFORE I became raw. PLase don't make those assumptions/judgements.

The other thing...I have to agree with rawfoodistdavid. If the whole point of being raw is to increase your health, improve your immune function and live a 'cleaner' life (which is why I started raw) why on EARTH would anyone do it if their bodies would become so sensitive they could DIE from cooked food? Or car exhaust will put them into some sort of 4 day illness? Obviously I am being extreme here, but that sort of thing would totally turn me off of raw. Like I said, if that was the first book I read I would have not continued on raw. Now, he does have a bunch of great (imo) info in his book but the 'scarey stuff' would have been what put me off of raw. Luckily I read Alissa's book firsl :D Otherwise I would have thought the only way to be raw would be to live in the mountains by myself and grow all my own food (which doesn't sound bad...but not practical for my family)

I think the reason some diest seem extreme to the general public is because we (collective) make them extreme. Raw food takes some planning, yes. But I would not consider it extreme. I chose not to cook my food. I eat it the way it comes from the earth. Period. Honestly, in all the time I have been doing this, and all the places I have gone, brought my food and my kids food the mmost anyone has EVER said to me was 'wow, your kids sure do like veggies'. I avoid chemicals. I don't drink. When not eating raw, my family does not eat packaged crap. Don't use chemicals in the house or on our bodies. As far as everything else...I have to drive places, so to be SO sensitive to polution/exhaust that I got sick every time I did? No thanks. If that's the case, I will stick to 90% raw and call it a day.

[TaupeRawMan]

Thank you everyone for the comments...I get very detail-oriented and it drives me nuts and I don't know what to believe anymore (especially when the theory makes sense and nothing seems to be working).:o

[ShantiDass]

I've never heard of him and haven't read his blog. I have always been very sensitive to meds, chemical and scents and have ended up in the ER many times due to these. I now can't tolerate soy which is why I've come back to raw. I did have some nama shoyu after not having any soy for several weeks and became very ill. I asked the waitress and she said they forgot to give me the dressing without nama shoyu. I knew that must have been what happened as I sat in the restaurant and got very ill.

I do kind of understand what Matt is saying but it does seem a tad extreme for me. I'm thinking he might be more of a purist than many of us here considering many of us use agave, nama shoyu, braggs, certain nuts, etc. which aren't truly raw. Maybe he's not. But if he is, then most of us wouldn't have his issue anyway (if it's even possible).

I do know that when I don't take meds for a long time, I am more sensitive to them than my norm and I can desensitize myself to them by taking smaller amounts and working up to a larger amount - which is usually still less than half of the recommended dose.

I don't understand why someone would effectively wear a DNR order and let themselves die instead of taking the chance on some meds or an IV. If the injury or illness is going to kill you without treatment anyway, then why not give it a go? I would think you wouldn't have much to lose.

[Coconutcutie]

I've never heard of him and haven't read his blog. I have always been very sensitive to meds, chemical and scents and have ended up in the ER many times due to these. I now can't tolerate soy which is why I've come back to raw. I did have some nama shoyu after not having any soy for several weeks and became very ill. I asked the waitress and she said they forgot to give me the dressing without nama shoyu. I knew that must have been what happened as I sat in the restaurant and got very ill.

I do kind of understand what Matt is saying but it does seem a tad extreme for me. I'm thinking he might be more of a purist than many of us here considering many of us use agave, nama shoyu, braggs, certain nuts, etc. which aren't truly raw. Maybe he's not. But if he is, then most of us wouldn't have his issue anyway (if it's even possible).

I do know that when I don't take meds for a long time, I am more sensitive to them than my norm and I can desensitize myself to them by taking smaller amounts and working up to a larger amount - which is usually still less than half of the recommended dose.

I don't understand why someone would effectively wear a DNR order and let themselves die instead of taking the chance on some meds or an IV. If the injury or illness is going to kill you without treatment anyway, then why not give it a go? I would think you wouldn't have much to lose.

I can actually see where Matt is coming from with th DNR bracelet. I reacted badly after 3 pills (Cipro) taken last September and my health is still severely compromised 10 months later as a result, with no sign of turning around. I feel like I'm living in a nightmare that I can't wake up from. If I were to be in a life or death situation, I would rather die than have my life severely affected (read:ruinied) by another prescription drug. Maybe I should get a DNR bracelet.

[annavon]

Keep in mind also, that we all have a unique physiology. We are the sum of our genetic make up as well that changes brought on by the environment around us and our dietary and lifestyle choices. Something that may make one person more sensitive may actually be helpful to someone else. Myself is a case in point. I have NEVER done well on anesthesia. I almost didn't come out of anesthesia once as a teenager. Last year, I had to have ankle surgury. I had been on a partly raw diet for a few months before. I actually came out of the drugs better than in the past. I experienced some detox symptoms (hausea and vomiting to get the toxins out) a couple of days later, but better than in the past. I figure that being healthier overall helped my situation.