Fate?

[mel_s12]

What does everybody think.

Are our lives predestined and planned out .. or are we in complete control of what happens?

I'm going through a little bit of a crisis where I don't know if I should just sit back and let fate guide me, or if things are under my control and I'm supposed to be doing things that I'm not.

:confused:

[juliebove]

We are totally in control. Watch The Secret.

[maui_butterfly]

both!

its my total belief that you are not supposed to be doing anything you are not doing. whatever you are doing: being proactive, sitting on your heels, hiding in your closet, dancing on the roof -- that's exactly what you are supposed to be doing. relax about it.

i like to question my stressful thoughts around what i am doing and/or not doing with the simple inquiry method called The Work. a woman named Byron Katie developed it, and it really works. but it starts with a radical acceptance of reality and the present moment. the world is perfect as it exists right now. any stressful or painful thought you are having can be investigated, and it lightens its hold on you or lets go of you completely. and you are free.

www.thework.org

[mel_s12]

Juliebove... I've seen the Secret and totally believe in it. You're so right. Thanks :)

[Vivafree2]

I always believed that we are in control - that we can change everything we want. I changed dramatically in my youth - became very good student from the bad one, finished University, landed great job, became pragmatic, organized - i worked hard for everything. I wasn't happy with the "destiny" so i changed the country - i studied, suffered, excercised and ... it was for nothing. All the experiences thought me that i will not escape my fate - i still fight but i would be better off just to follow the grid.... i can elaborate on that off line. I still believe i can change karma, self and proof universe wrong. Some people say is possible.... i can not say that for myself, last 20 years is a vicious circle with no escape. Genetics, neurosis, patterns, self talk, self sabotage .... part of the script, part of the karma - they say it is in you - yes - and i can not find access to the control room! I am on remote - i call it destiny. Raw for me is a last resort. I manifest for years - not sucessfuly.

[shakti17]

i agree...both!

i love the secret, i manifest all the time (most recently i manifested a bunch of things to make my apt, nice and some clients....and my son!)

i ALSO love the work.

Maui B, thx for your post - that is EXACTLY where i am now.....accepting that i m a little depressed and having a challenging time ..... but keeping it positive so i ll stay in the flow to create.

yes, everything that was could not have been different - that s a misquoted quote from the matrix. does anyone remember the quote?

peace!

[Vivafree2]

It looks like everything i manifest is turning other way. I must be manifesting it backward i guess....
...always wanted to go to Australia or Hawai - manifesting is not enough for me - i have to just buy holidays and go...one day i will - not by fate but by myself - again nothing to do with fate. By by fate i am not getting there - always obstacles, always something holding me back- fate prevent me from it ... or myself?

[mel_s12]

Yeah.. maybe it's a little bit of both. I guess we will never know for sure. We just need to keep on manifesting what's in our hearts. :rolleyes:

[Cinammon]

Hey

(I agree with Maui Butterfly on a lot of this.)

I'd say, don't beat yourself up over anything you 'should' be doing - there are no shoulds. Whatever you're doing right now, you're doubtless doing your best - so give yourself some strokes for getting this far(!) Everyone has their own situation, unique to them, and it's their own way of dealing with it, who they ask, how they get help, and what they learn from it, that is maybe the point ...

Sometimes pushing things can be the worst possible thing to do. (I know it's almost impossible not to, sometimes). Better sometimes/usually to go with the flow, and wait for the right opportunity to grab, rather than feeling, 'I must make the opportunity ...

I don't know if I agree with the New Age/The Secret idea that we manifest everything- to me, there's an implication there that, when 'bad' things happen to us, it's our own fault - and I think that's a more esoteric philosophy, with more to it, than the New Age has managed to get across so far ... (hope that doesn't offend anyone!)


I don't think there are 'rights' or 'wrongs' - just do whatever you think. The best thing can be concentrating on staying calm, NOT beating ourselves up, and just wait for the right time/opportunity/escape to materialise - which it will.

I like the Zen idea that whatever happens, we can't always tell if it's good or bad. Y'all probably know the story - old man suddenly discovers 20 wild horses in his field. 'Wow', say the neighbours, 'Wonderful luck'
'Don't know if it's good or bad', the man says.
Man's son tries catching horses, falls and breaks arm.
'Dreadful luck', neighbours say.
'Don't know if it's good or bad' the man says.
Next day, the army come recruiting for 'volunteers'. Can't take the son, as arm broken.
'Great!' say the neighbours.
Man shrugs. 'Don't know if it's ...'
And so on, and so on.

Know that's a bit off the point(!)

I don't think we're always in control of our 'destiny' at all. I think we can play the hands we're dealt, and we can always learn new ways to play, new perspectives, etc, but I don't know if we're in control of the cards. And just when you think you are, that's when you get the joker ... but who knows if it's good or bad, etc.

I also do believe in asking the angels - I think Doreen Virtue puts that point across quite well. The 'Conversations with God' books also deal with this whole issue very well, I reckon.

Hope everything works out well for you! Take care of yourself.

God bless.

Love

Cinammon x

[greenday]

I like to think of it as opportunity.

The world is filled with all sorts of opportunities - good, bad, rich, amazing, horrible, tragic, magic and everything in-between. How one personally chooses to move through the world creates intersection points with opportunity. For example: If a person chooses to stay in their house every day there won't be much opportunity for a bus to hit them (unless it comes through the wall)....but they'll also have less opportunity to meet amazing people and see new things (unless it comes knocking at the door). Conversely, if one is out there moving, shaking, and interacting in society the universe of opportunity is naturally much bigger!

So, the way I see it, FATE is directly linked to CHOICE and ACTION. Some people believe in "miracles"...I believe it's opportunity intersecting life. Perception, i.e. how the mind processes the information, determines the experience.

Is it consequence, fate, or a miracle? Depends on one's point of view. :)

[maui_butterfly]

I don't know if I agree with the New Age/The Secret idea that we manifest everything- to me, there's an implication there that, when 'bad' things happen to us, it's our own fault - and I think that's a more esoteric philosophy, with more to it, than the New Age has managed to get across so far ... (hope that doesn't offend anyone!)


i REALLY agree with this. haven't you looked back at times in your life that you considered "bad" at the time, or others would consider bad, and you realize that it was exactly what you were meant to experience at the time, in order to get where you are today?

i definitely agree that your "vibration" brings things to you of a similar nature. but the thing that is a little offputting to me about all the manifestation stuff is that it keeps you focused on the imagined future, versus being focused on the perfect present. and it also creates guilt and shame around the challenging things that we experience -- "i am sick because i was not positive enough", versus "i am sick because this is exactly the experience that i am meant to have right now. how interesting! i wonder how this will turn out?"

fall in love with what you have and you are always happy. wait to be happy until you manifest everything that you want and your happiness is dependent on how "good" you are doing with your manifestation projects. i'm not saying don't try to manifest, because i believe that it works. do it from pure joy. accept that if it doesn't "work", its because you are meant to experience something different right now. just lose all the judgement around it. bad. good. better. best. awful. failure. success. get rid of those concepts, they are BS.

[Anastazia]

All I really know for sure is, I don't know what tomorrow holds, but I know who holds tomorrow! :)

One of the biggest blessings for me in becoming a Christian {& letting go of all the new age beliefs I followed, well, religiously for 7 years, that "I created it" & "It must've been just what I needed cuz I manifested it" stuff} is learning that I can totally, surrenderingly trust my life into the hands of the God who made me, & that, when I seek & stay in His will, His plans for my life are far, far higher than my own for myself could EVER be, & make life the amazing adventure it's become!

One of my fave verses in the Bible says,
"ALL things work together for good for those who love Him & are called according to His purposes..."

I have seen this happen repeatedly, even with the things that, at first, looked like good could never come from it...but I personally find it presumptuous now (& dare I say even arrogant) to assume I created those circumstances or results, or manifested them working out for good...
...when I believed that, I didn't face my pride behind those beliefs, or the rejection of His sovereignty, (not just in my life, but in the world!)

I believe that He sees ALL, past, present AND future, & WORKS it together for good, through various means, out of His love & compassion for those who've chosen to walk with Him in accordance with His Word, & in fellowship with His Son. {Not that He doesn't love & have compassion for everyone, but until He's handed the reins...He doesn't force His will on anyone, in other words!)

I also realized that there are many, many reasons & things that affect why things happen, (free will, cause & affect, consequences to ours & others actions) including the fact that there's an enemy of our souls who's content to leave us alone, even 'bless' us, as it were, until we turn to God, His Son, His Word.

Don't mean to step on any toes, & definately not trying to make waves, but seeing as all the answers are basically saying the same thing, from the same perspective, I figured another way of looking at & answering the question should also be shared. :)

So, to clarify & summarize :D , I don't believe in 'fate', I believe God has had a specific plan for my life from the very start of it, & that faith, seeking His will, & obedience will bring what is needed....

...& that even when I get off course, He steers me in the right direction again, through His Holy Spirit, & works even my detours together into a tapestry that I'll only fully see clearly when it's time.

Until then, I walk by faith, not by sight, as the Bible says to.

It's the only way that everything has ever made total sense to me, & been truly, joyfully, peacefully acceptable, even in heartache, turmoil, pain, or whatever else happens. The "peace that passes all understanding!" {Doesn't make sense until you experience it!}

{I guess I 'failed' New Age 101! :rolleyes: }

~Anastazia~

[shakti17]

the thing about law of attraction - is you don t just sit there being bummed out until your manifestations come - otherwise they won t come! when you are full of joy you are in receiving mode - only then do the manifestations flow....

but i also agree that some things are also fate - in my experience they work together...

also, i ll share that everything is so how you look at it - ie - many look at me with pity in their eyes - which is annoying - but i dont let it bother me too much - as i am financially challenged, single mom, etc......but i have never been so happy in my whole life! everything is how you view it. i choose to see this challenging time as a gift - i am learning what is important and what is not (for spending) simplifying my life etc....what a gift!

also, i was so miserable while pregnant - bc of my relationship with ex - now in hindsight i see how perfect that most dark time was! my son and i are so happy as a mama-baby team!

lol

shakti

[maui_butterfly]

i am financially challenged, single mom, etc......but i have never been so happy in my whole life! everything is how you view it. i choose to see this challenging time as a gift - i am learning what is important and what is not (for spending) simplifying my life etc....what a gift!

also, i was so miserable while pregnant - bc of my relationship with ex - now in hindsight i see how perfect that most dark time was! my son and i are so happy as a mama-baby team!

wow shakti, i could have posted that!

[Vivafree2]

No Anastazia - you just represent different approach - christian approach to fate. And this tread is to express it, have opinions and share what we choose or follow.

[Cinammon]

Hey Anastazia

Just to say: you write that ' ... all answers are basically saying the same thing, from the same perspective'. Well, not really. Everyone's perspective is unique, and the answers here actually reflect that.

And, to be honest, some of what you write comes straight from a lot of New Age textbooks - just substitute 'the Universe' for 'God', and there you are; almost identikit.

(It's a bugbear of mine, that the New Age is taking over where Christianity left off. Gurus instead of priests, 'negative thoughts' instead of 'impure thoughts', self sabotage instead of Satan, Karma instead of Original Sin, seminars instead of the Sunday service, Universal Laws instead of God's Laws. Like I said: they substitue 'the Universe' for 'God'; but it's the same old, same old. Maybe destined to keep humanity in guilt bondage, always searching for that jam tomorrow ...)

A whole new group of 'saved' people, taken in by the same old hook promises of inner peace and outer prosperity(!) Paying a lot of money on the promises of Heaven delivered by the new priests.

Always a 'reason' why some are rich and some are starving, and ooh, look, it's got NOTHING to do with the greed and corruption of the Churches or the big business: it's God's Will or it's Universal Law; it's never manipulation by the fat cats. And a lot of the fat cats today are the luminary New Agers.

This is NOT to say that there isn't a LOT of wisdom in both Christianity and the New Age. Just to say that I resent the manipulation both camps can use. And don't get me started on the materialism rampant in both....

In lots of ways, the New Age is 'Animal Farm' come to life, if you really get sucked into it. And I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of ex-Christians go to the New Age, and vice-versa.

Right. Rant over.

Maui Butterfly, I really liked what you wrote in your 'I am sick because ...' sentence. Beautifully put.

Hmmm.

God bless us all, Christians, New Agers, Pagans, lions and tigers and bears and all.

Love

Cinammon x

[Vivafree2]

There are no wrong or right answers here - we believe what we believe in - preaching is someone's else business - as Cinnamon mentioned - there are always some institutions or trends to teach us the "better" way for whatever reasons. In general:
WE have control,
HIGHER POWER (God, Universe etc.) has control,
NOBODY has control as everything is the game of probability.

Even if God has control we still have control over choices we make as our conduct is described by the rules: no good behaviour - no heaven,
no positive thinking no manifestation etc.... or it doesn't really matter if things are random. Universe is less scary place with something greater than us, and future in better place....

[Cinammon]

Hey

Sorry I ranted on a bit yesterday.

Must learn to practise what I believe ; )

Ah well. It's all good in the end ...?!

Lots love

Cinammon xxx

[RawHeaven]

Hi Mel, I believe we're here to create and not to learn lessons or suffer. But to experience the joy of creating, building, sharing love and sometimes experiencing pain to grow. That we are creative beings is self-evident by the fact that we're in physical form which in itself takes a great deal of creative power to manifest. Therefore we have the ability to co-create every moment and every experience in our lives. Even the crappy stuff we've created! It's not a matter of being in control, but rather letting go and letting the creative spirit guide you to having what you want and what you want to experience. Directing your thoughts in a positive direction infused with joy is the fastest way to living with joy and clarity. The more you do this, the more in tune you become with the rhythmic creative power that resides within you, constantly and continually moving mountains. For a reminder, simply go outside in nature and see it directly. There is no difference with the cyclical nature of our individual lives and experience - it's all the same magnificent energy and perfect as it is. And we are perfect as we are. Fate is what we make it. ;)

[VeganGypsie]

Thanks Anastazia, now I don't have to be the first to mention God. I am also not very "new age" but rather Vaisnava (a type of Hindu) and I can actually see "fate" as something you "manifested" yourself. You may remember doing so, like i manifested Candida by ignoring my diet for so long, or you may not, because it was in a past life. All of your actions are like planting a seed in your soul, were you will eventually reap the fruit of that action. Hence "fate" and "self direction" beautifully merge into one on a long enough time scale. Seeking to understand and follow God's will is always the most fulfilling way to proceed, weather we believe in fate or self direction, a false duality i picture as a mobius strip!

[Vivafree2]

I am back to fate - i got myself to New York- i had superb experience! I was in control and made a choice and all that. If i could have more control over it i would choose sunny day instead of rainy and i would meet love of my life, or something could happend to change my life. I still had good time - the universe made a lot of nasty things to make it less enjoyable experience. Where is fate, where is creating my own destiny, where is randomness.
Maybe fate is that the strong wind actually didn't make our bus to fell on the ground? I was spared, maybe the fate was not to be mugged? .. I think we all put too much emphasis on our own omnipotence. We do what we can to live the best we can, as some have allergies other have talents, luck.
Despite what i manifested ( i made experiment as i red in the book about it)
things went their own way.