Please Respond ASAP!

[Holli]

This kind of goes along with Lauro's recent thread about children and weight gain. I have a 10 year old that I have recently transitioned to 100% vegan, most of that being raw (just about 2 months ago now). It was a decision I made, not handled or received well on her part. She has been rebelling, has lost a good amount of weight (she is 4' 10" and only weighs approx 65 pounds, maybe less-really if you see her without clothes, bones jutting out everywhere), and has also recently gotten very sick. I'm trying not to be overwhelmed with the motherly guilt, despite many comments I've received from family members, etc. about what my new diet is "doing to her". There are more factors involved than just diet change. We've had some emotional stress in the family, she just went through a big growth spurt, we recently moved to a new area- the girl has a lot going on! I know we all handle our children's diet transitions differently. I really want her to stay vegan/high raw for awhile in hopes that she will at least give it a chance. It's been a tough couple of months here.

Anyway, I am at the point where she really needs to gain weight right away. It is a problem. She looks very different just in the last 2 months. I know I can do this raw and I read some of the high-fat/high-calories ideas (avos, sesame seeds, olive oil, etc). I'm just wondering if anyone has had this experience before? I don't even know how many calories she needs a day or how much fat because I don't really want to go by a lot of the charts for kids on a SAD diet. Any ideas of where I can go to learn how much she needs would be helpful. She just got pneumonia twice in the last 2 months which is worrisome. She has no appetitie (part of that is sickness, part of that is pure rebellion- she is VERY strong-willed!). It's more than just wanting her to follow my rules. I really strongly believe that meat, dairy, etc. are very bad for her. I don't let her drink beer (that is high in calories) why would I start giving her cheeseburgers to put on weight! However, I want to be proactive. I want to keep a log of what she is eating and monitor her closely until she is well and up to a weight where she is looking and feeling good (she is very self-conscious about her recent weight loss and the kids at school are teasing her). I'm also wondering if this is normal for even kids to lose weight when they transition? I lost 17 pounds when I transitioned and prior to this she was eating a good amount of dairy and other foods that are higher in fat and calories than the fruit and veggies she's been snacking on.

On a side note, I also went to her school to meet her for lunch and found out they give the kids 15-20 minutes to eat their food every day and if they aren't done, they kick them out of the cafeteria and they aren't allowed to bring their food with them on the yard. So by the time she gets to a table and chit-chats with her girlfriends she barely had eaten when they told them to leave. Since I was there, they let her stay and she needed a good 30 minutes, undistracted (since they made her friends leave) to finish. So ontop of her rebellion at home, she has hardly been eating all day except for the junk her teacher gives her to bribe the kids to listen...anyway, long story short, we are beginning homeschooling this morning with a friend of mine who has been homeschooling for years. I'll go back and check the threads on that, but wish me luck- big, but wonderful changes in the mix!


Thanks for listening...:)

[Stina]

I don't have kids. Just wanted to say congratulations on turning to homeschooling and trust that it's a blessing:)

[4forme]

I am sure some other more experienced moms will chime in soon, but for now, here's my thoughts.

What are her favorite foods? Try to re-create them. Add lots of avocado, oils, nuts and seeds. They will give her enough calories and hopefully put a little weight back on as well as aid in her concentration for school work.

Does she like chocolate? Try avocado pudding. It's great all by itself or dip strawberries and various fruits in, that's my 10yo favorite! Banana smoothies, with cocao, coconut cream and sweetener of choice.
Missing breads/crackers? Try making some of the great recipes. There is a cashew "mayo" recipe somewhere that is fantastic! My ds loves it (he is "sad" but dairy intolerant-so it serves as his ranch dip for veggies)

Will she do green smoothies? Or fruit smoothies?

This may not be taken well here, but maybe comprimise on a few things for a while. There has been so much change in her life, and it sounds like it's gotten too stressful for her. Maybe do one of her favorite foods once a week or on weekends, or something like that, whatever will work with you.

Is there something that you can let her decide on, to help her feel a little more in control? Maybe some choices? I don't know, throwing out ideas. Since you are homeschooling, do "Home Ec" and look through some raw recipes and then make them together! Many subjects can be incorporated in this project. Let her decide what to make, anything as long as it's raw. This might get her into trying some new things and you can learn more about what she might eat.

Praying things get better soon, let us know how she's doing. Enjoy homeschooling, it's a blessing!

[laurao]

Hey Holli.

It sure sounds like a lot of change for your daughter & family. I hear you... however, 3-yr-olds are a lot different from 10-yr-olds. But I can say no matter the age, it seems changes are accepted better when they are slow and not forced -- or at least not feeling so forced -- how ever well intentioned they are.

My husband (yes, another kind of creature than a 10-yr-old girl), has now enthusiastically joined me in my Raw Food diet. However, it did take a period of transition... which I think anyone can relate to. First (4 months before we went all raw) I made a lot of raw sweet treats -- like the awesome chocolate tort in Raw Food, Real World, ice cream, etc. He said, "this is raw? I love it! what else can you make raw?"

Then I made (like 4forme suggestioned), meals that were more similar to what he already ate (lasagne, nachos, tacos, sunburgers, plus lots of salads - yes, I am in the kitchen a lot!). I make sure I always have some sort of flax bread, raw chips, etc. around with plenty of cut fruit & veggies in the frig. (The easier the better and more willing :) I also make raw granola and nut milk and keep that handy for breakfasts for him. We make lots of smoothies and juices too. Anyway, so that transition worked for him. I never once asked him to join me in this. I think that was key too.

As for my 3-yr-old... she's still transitioning (6 1/2 months after I entered the raw world). She's actually (for those curious) eating more and more raw including fats, nuts, avocados, etc. I'm still slowly mixing things she used to eat with newer, raw versions (ie; she still doesn't like nut milk straight, so I mix it with some rice milk and the proportions are starting to favor the raw stuff). Plus, I'm mixing (and hidding) a lot of things in her smoothies (like green powders, etc... - don't forget a source of B12, as Gabriel Cousens says all Vegans need. And some of the things my daughter eats (like whole raw kale leaves) she eats just from watching me, I never asked her to eat them. One day, after watching me eat them over and over, she said... I want that. And from then on, she likes Kale leaves. So maybe a gentle approach is best?

I wish you the best on your quest! I hope something in there was helpful :)

[Holli]

Thanks for the great comments. I am doing many of the comments already suggested, but can definitely improve in others. Raising kids is so interesting. Every one is so different, you need to adapt to fit the needs of each one. I agree with being flexible, however, I worry about adjusting my stance with my daughter. She is a very strong person and I'm afraid if I go back on what I said (that we are 100% vegan- not even 100% raw, just vegan-that's why this seems so frustrating to me. I'm not requiring her to eat raw when she's out. We eat mostly raw at home and I figure as long as she is eating vegan while she's out, it's better), she will push in other areas that I feel strongly about (like our religion, etc.) just to see if I will compromise in those areas as well. But, my husband and I have talked a lot about giving her more choices in other areas. I have been encouraging her to help in the kitchen, pick out recipes, read a little about why I feel so strongly about a plant-based diet, etc. But let's face it. She's 10! She just wants to go have ice cream with her friends and not worry about what's in it! I have no troubles with my boys (age 2 & 4), but they are always with me or I can instruct whoever cares for them what to feed them. It gets trickier with older ones, especially since this way of life is new for us. I may find myself having to make some compromises, and just hope she won't take advantage and start binge eating if there is a small opportunity to do so.

Thanks for your prayers and thoughts!

[Aleesha Sattva]

I am very concerned.

Did your child choose to homeschool or is this your choice? As a homeschooling mom, I know they need to WANT to homeschool for it to work. From your posts we know she doesn't want to be raw or vegan.

When we force our choices and beliefs on others... they do one thing. Rebel.

What is this worth to you? Promiscuity? Drug addiction? ..... Suicide.

I worked with teens as a therapist for years. In my experience when the girls were forced to do something... or many things... they rebel. Some rebel outwardly... where everyone can see it. Others rebel inward. They develop eating disorders, they start self-mutilating in areas of their body that others won't see. (cutting their inner thighs for example)

They begin to venture further into their own minds and go farther away from their parents.

You are at a very important spot. What is more important here? That you are right or that she is happy?

I would sit down and talk to her. If she really doesn't want to be on this diet (at this time) allow her that. Let her eat what she wants and perhaps add a green smoothie to her diet. Over time, as she sees everyone eating the vegan/raw goodies... she can choose to eat some herself.

I'm not going to apologize for the abruptness of my post... because I truly believe, from what I've read in your post that you are at a point in your daughter's path that you may look back on years later and regret. Seeing all the depression, rebellion and self-inflicted control which takes over her life. Cause if you don't allow her to control her life in some areas... she WILL take it in others.

[MiahTay]

I have raised my children vegetarian since birth but raw was another story. I came back upon raw the beginning of November (last year) and I made the change for myself not requiring anything new of my children except that they have a decent size salad before their evening meal. I was the only one eating raw. As I tried new things and they found some things that they liked I switched them to smoothies in the morning for breakfast made with almond milk and flax seed added. Then the end of December we started juicing again and they now include 2 8 oz. glasses of juice per day (I require them to drink 8 oz. carrot juice in the morning, they don't love this but it's not an issue now after a month). All the while I am still allowing them their cooked lunch and some cooked food after their evening salad. Then the beginning of February I asked them what they thought about giving raw a try but still letting them have their cooked food after dinner. So, in the matter of 3 1/2 months I've gotten them from mostly cooked to mostly raw and the only battle I've had to fight is carrot juice. For that matter in that same amount of time my husband is also mostly raw. We are all individuals and we all require different things to make big changes like the one we are talking about. I truly feel there would be no shame in going to your daughter and letting her know you see there is a problem and asking her to consider ways you two could reach a compromise, her embracing more raw and you allowing ???

I also homeschool, and I think it is a GREAT decision if your motives are right. I know people that chose to homeschool to shelter their children and this has turned out badly. However if you are both in agreement that homeschooling is a good thing you will realize some nice benefits especially as a raw foodist, you will be much more in touch with what your child is eating and she won't have to deal with the temptation and peer pressure over food. If you want to discuss this further feel free to e-mail me. BTW my son is 11 and my daughter is almost 9.

Wishing you all the best.

Heather

[garden granny]

I am very concerned.

Did your child choose to homeschool or is this your choice? As a homeschooling mom, I know they need to WANT to homeschool for it to work. From your posts we know she doesn't want to be raw or vegan.

When we force our choices and beliefs on others... they do one thing. Rebel.

What is this worth to you? Promiscuity? Drug addiction? ..... Suicide.

I worked with teens as a therapist for years. In my experience when the girls were forced to do something... or many things... they rebel. Some rebel outwardly... where everyone can see it. Others rebel inward. They develop eating disorders, they start self-mutilating in areas of their body that others won't see. (cutting their inner thighs for example)

They begin to venture further into their own minds and go farther away from their parents.

You are at a very important spot. What is more important here? That you are right or that she is happy?

I would sit down and talk to her. If she really doesn't want to be on this diet (at this time) allow her that. Let her eat what she wants and perhaps add a green smoothie to her diet. Over time, as she sees everyone eating the vegan/raw goodies... she can choose to eat some herself.

I'm not going to apologize for the abruptness of my post... because I truly believe, from what I've read in your post that you are at a point in your daughter's path that you may look back on years later and regret. Seeing all the depression, rebellion and self-inflicted control which takes over her life. Cause if you don't allow her to control her life in some areas... she WILL take it in others.

I agree with the above. I am also very concerned. I would definitely not force this on my child if she/he did not want it. You can always slip in nutritious raw foods as well as let them eat some cooked food. I hope you will please think about that. Also, let her help you prepare some of the food, sometimes that makes a difference.

[laurao]

Hi Again Holli,

I thought I'd recommend something else (as I do agree with a lot of other recent posts)... Check out this video clip, it's about a parent and daughter. It's not about food, but the message could be quite useful:

http://www.thework.com/video_daughter.asp

Also, I have found Bryon Katie's book "Loving What Is (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FLoving-What-Four-Questions-Change%2Fdp%2F1400045371%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%2 6qid%3D1203449358%26sr%3D8-1&tag=wwwgoodnurtur-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325)" to be very powerful in dealing with others, and more importantly ourselves, in whatever issue we think should be a certain way, but isn't.

Finally, I agree it might be a good idea to sit down and talk with her. Admitting that we, as parents, aren't perfect (perhaps, by pushing too hard) might not give the message that we don't follow through with our demands as much as saying we're in this together, let's see what we can do to love and support each other to be in a happier place.

Best of Luck!!

[Aleesha Sattva]

it also teaches a very valuable lesson to your daughter...

we can make a decision, rethink it and realize it's not the best one... and instead of putting pride before a fall... we choose to change our game plan!

:::hugs::: to you and your daughter

[Aleesha Sattva]

the message could be quite useful:

http://www.thework.com/video_daughter.asp

i love this... show by example! do by doing and walk your talk and then... others may follow.

"can you absolutely know that it's true that she SHOULD... " wow, very powerful!

i know this is why so many people in my life are trying green smoothies and considering being more raw... it's because they are watching me... my health gain, my weight release...

thanks for posting this!

[Holli]

Thank you again for all of your responses. I have a lot to think and pray about....I will keep you all posted.

[MiahTay]

Just one last thing and I know you are probably sick of reading about this now but... If you do homeschool, realizing what "doesn't work" and changing what you do, will be a regular part of your life. I was discussing with a friend of mine this morning she bought a whole history curriculum that isn't working for her or her daughter and she isn't using it - it cost over $300. Best of luck in your decision and you will be in my prayers.

Heather

[Aleesha Sattva]

oh ya i hear you on that one. i've spent loads of money on stuff that the kids didn't resonate with... or did for a week or two and then dropped it LOL

reevaluating your teaching with homeschooling is essential!

[Care4raw]

You sound like a great mom with all the same intentions i have have with my children. Some things I cried about not working..and then the kids grew wise and came back to some things themselves.

For instance I chose Waldorf education that prefers no media and for years all we did was fight about media! i fought with family too.That wasn't my dream for them.Neither was the control issues that I got stuck in, all in the name of doing the healthiest thing for my children.We had awful fights about it that I regret.

The fact that you have all your family aboard on a vegan lifestyle is awesome. Congradulations! I am sure you are pleased with some battles you persisted in, in the face of being counter-culture vegan alone is not easy.

My neice was born into a solid meat eating family. At the age of two she announced that she was a vegetarian. In this families' world meat is healthy. Yet they recognized the determination of her spirit and the family adapted. She came into the world this way and they had the gentleness to see it .Your daughter came into this world with her own decisive spirit too.

So, one last thing and really the reason i am replying. It's all about control with your daughter right now. I feel for you, and her. Please recognize that she is becoming a candidate for anorexia the more these 'control' issues are in her life.Anorexia is all about CONTROL. I hate to say it , but it is true.

Someone posted about the work of Byron katie here, she is amazing! You can ask yourself "If my daughter is not raw does it mean she will have icecream every day of the week?"Can you really know thats true? You can question these many fears and beliefs.

Sorry to go on. I know there's alot of similiar posts. Your post, reaching out to us , just struck a chord with me.

Bless all of you!

[Jeannine]

First of all, cyber hugs to you. This is obviously a very stressful situation for you. I've been thinking a lot about this since I read your post - it really affected me.

You have gotten some wonderful advice already. But something in your original post stuck me - "I'm trying not to be overcome with guilt". I'd like to encourage you to listen to that inner voice. This is not right for your daughter right now, and I think you know it. Your inner guidance, your connection with all-that-is, is TELLING you through your feelings that this is the wrong approach.

Your daughter is becoming an adult. It is natural and normal for her to want to make her own decisions. I fear you are alienating her right now and this is such a crucial time in your lives - you are risking a relationship with your daughter when she's an adult, and you are risking never knowing her children. :( And anorexia/cutting is NOT an exaggeration. I see the writing for this on the wall, too.

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that you've made a mistake to your daughter. It's not about "giving in", it's not about you. Imagine how wonderful it would be for both of you to if you stepped up and said that you made a mistake, you see how much pain this is causing her, and you want to fix it. You will KEEP her by doing that. Taking away all of her comfort foods right after she has lost her home and friends in a move is just too much. How about just having her drink a green smoothie in the morning?

The stress of this situation will cause more bodily damage than meat or dairy would, for BOTH of you. She will not get sick and die from eating the SAD diet anytime soon - this usually takes many, many years. I think most of us can attest to that, given our own upbringings. But if you gently encourage her, and NOT shame her for her food choices, and lead by example, something tells me she will come to see your way of living as "right" and choose it for herself at some point.

I hope that the advice on this board helps you. My heart really goes out to you and I hope that you and your daughter get through this lovingly.

[shakti17]

what a great thread! i appreciate all the comments.....

i agree with everything, and byron katie has also helped me so much!

if you do decide to let your daughter not be 100% vegan - i like the green smoothie idea - she may just be rebelling. if you dont make her do it, she would probably come around on her own....i still remmeber whatever my parents said DIDNT go! i d rebel against whatever they said!

so if you do decide to go easy on her, maybe once she is more open you could give her that "eating without heating" book, or connect with other vegan kids who she might want to be like.

best of luck, and thx for sharing!

shakti

[Veg4Life]

Wow...this is an intense thread.

I'm new on the board, but wanted to share my thoughts as well. I have a 10 year old daughter and she isn't that keen on being vegan or raw for that matter. I allow her to choose what she eats as hard is that is for me- for I too believe VERY strongly in this diet. Having said that, I do not compromise my standards and my beliefs. Meaning, I do not buy non-vegan food or keep it in our house. I do not buy her non-vegan food when we are out. If she has her own money she has earned or saved she is welcome to purchase her own snack/meal, but I don't want to support the meat/dairy/junk industry in any way. When she is at her friends' homes or other family, I allow her to choose. I am always careful how I phrase things to her...if we are at a church dinner or something and she asks can I have that (pointing to a piece of chocolate cake or something), I always respond, "Eat whatever you feel is right." Not in a condescending way AT ALL, just in a -think before you eat- sort of way. I always look for ways to educate her and I try my hardest to not sneer at her choices or make her wrong. So far this is working for us. I'd say 90% or more of the time she is with me, so she is eating vegan and mostly raw (we also homeschool, so she is with me all day!). So that extra 10% of the time, I just let her be and pray and hope for the best. She is a smart and lovely girl, and I know that eventually she will do what is best for her. It took me into my late 20's with 3 kids to get it together, so she has time as do all of our children.

Holli, I hope you don't feel picked on by this thread. It is very hard to hear that your parenting is creating negative, and possibly very dangerous effects on your children. I was kind of in awe at how blunt some of the responses were, but I hope that you can take the information (and know that they are backed by good intentions) and do what is best for you and your daughter. You will know what is right. Have faith in yourself!