Are we being sold a bag of goods....?

[janine]

David Wolfe is the best.....hands down.

[Sharon in Colorado]

I personally already knew about the plagiarism, and not just of NFL. I think quite a few folks here know about it as well.

Most people must realize that something that's been picked, dried, fermented, peeled and shipped here from another country isn't fresh anyway. This goes for maca, gogi berries, mesquite, etc. There is a big difference if it's being enjoyed once in a while as a treat or actually being used daily in someone's diet, believing it to have some kind of healing or therapeutic properties. Surely most people realize that about cacao, that it's just not a fresh, raw food.

[Revvell]

I have to agree with Sharon. I looked at the book and didn't purchase it as I cannot believe something like cacao is as healthy as they say it is. I did purchase a bag as an exploration. Don't much care for it so, basically it's a none issue.

For me, I'm more inclined to stay with foods that are fresh, organic and locally in-season. Other than bananas, I don't freeze my foods and do little dehydration anymore.

It is a shame though that others (especially new to the lifestyle) will buy into the hype of some of these folk and purchase maca, goji, etc. They make the easy, complicated (not to mention, expensive).

Revvell

[SimpleGirl]

Jane,

I read that site (Raw Food Support) a lot when I first discovered raw. I am sure you already know the site is a bit judgemental and full of controversy. Also I sometimes experience computer pop ups etc after visiting that site. Just my 2 cents. I still read it occassionally but I find most of my support and knowledge from Raw Food Talk. Thanks to everyone who makes this site wonderful!

[Sharon in Colorado]

There's a whole other discussion on cacao here as well. Follow the link and then the replies near the bottom of the page.

http://www.vegsource.com/talk/raw/messages/15830.html

Wanted to add that I also feel somewhat anxious and nervous after ingesting cacao, and everytime I've made my raw fudge (which is delicious) with the peeled nibs, there seems to be a lot of hard bits of shells in there. I have to be pretty careful when I chew the fudge.

I believe some of the compounds in cacao beans aren't beneficial to a body. I don't feel that way after using carob.

[Revvell]

Just tossed my "raw" cacao in the trash. Thanks Sharon.

Revvell

[Fuzzball]

It saddens me to see this thread.

Has anyone stopped to think about the processing that ALL nuts, beans, etc. go through before they end up on your counter at home?

Really, this sounds like a thread that someone would start about Raw food in general, thinking from a SAD dieters thought process.

I just spent over 3 hours with David Wolfe recently, hearing the facts about the Cacao. I'm sorry that none of you did, as it may have changed the way you treated this subject.

I went to the thread that Sharon posted on Vegsource...the first thing I noticed was a recommendation that everyone download "Alexa", which is a know spyware program...no thanks...if that's who they have sponsoring them, I don't want to visit nor do I want to listen to what they have to say.

Please, if you have concerns about NFL's Cacao, or their book, please do your own investigation, get the facts for yourself then share the information, sighting your sources.

Knowing that there are people out there whose only desire is to spread garbage.....I have to trust the participants before I give them any stock in my life....I have that feeling around here and want to keep it that way....that means being very judgemental about information from other sources being introduced when I don't have the trust built up.

Revvell, I wish I lived near you, I would have taken that raw cacao off your hands.

Please, be skeptical, but get the facts. This thread didn't answer any questions, it just magnified the negative...we need a positive haven....negative happens automatically, you have to fight to be positive.

[Revvell]

Fuzzball,

Well, tell us what you perceive as the truth please. I'd love to hear another side.

Revvell

[janine]

Raw Cacao Rocks.....I love it.

[Punky]

I applaud you Janine for being a proactive consumer and asking questions.
From someone who HAS seen David Wolfe speak twice now (so more than
3 hours worth of info) I ride the fence about NFL and their many products.
I have 3 David Wolfe books and all of Shazzie's too and many NFL products.
I would like to believe they are forthcoming and honest, but I always keep my guard up and the info you passed on is much appreciated.
They are making a living from this and it's hard being all trusting in that aspect. The 1st time I heard David speak I loved it for the most part.
He's a wonderful speaker
and has a lot of magnatism which makes him a very attractive person
and a hottie. The 2nd time I heard him speak was all about cacao...
he did a lot of name dropping during that lecture which was a total turn off
to my cooked husband and somewhat to me too. He talks about
lots of his products during his lectures-almost too much. My husband being a salesman himself thought he was being one too.
I'm not dogging him for making
a living or anything, but you would be kidding yourself if you thought
that didn't influence him at all. So I haven't decided which way I fall
yet; I enjoy many of his books and products but remain informed & questioning.
I have heard about the plagerism accusations and don't know what to believe on that. I use raw cacao and feel great after using it; but it does have some stimulant affects to it especially if I have it late at night...
As for it really being raw; i don't know, but couldn't someone take it to a lab
or something to find out for sure? I would think it a big risk for David and Shazzie to pass it off as raw and it was not; so big of a risk that it could ruin there raw businesses, reputations and perhaps a lawsuit...would they really risk it???
So no I am not helpful, just a third view on it all....
Be an educated consumer and don't believe everything you hear or read.
Trying to figure it all out for myself with a bit of skeptacism thrown
in! ha ;)

[VeganVixen]

yes , I also agree with sharon ,punky,janine and revvel - although many of his things probably are helpful, they seem a bit gimmicky and some of his praisings (like the cocao) seems to be conflicting with all the negative effects of stimulants.Also the ides that these not fresh , not regional "superfoods" are better than fresh ,local , seasonal produce is better seems to tie in with the gimmick ,ya know?

[rawpriestess]

It all boils down to whether you choose to eat RAW food, living food, local food, regional food, or fadish food.

I had no desire to purchase raw cacao nibs, peeled or otherwise.

But after hearing so much of it on these boards and around the raw world, I di buy 1/2 a pound for about $5 peeled at the local co-op, simply because I felt it was important that I at least know what it is.

But it came home and is just sitting there, I haven't ground it, or used it or anything.

It "feels" like a non-food in it's energy to me.

I am sure it is wonderful stuff, and all.

And I know that my fresh organic ripe raw produce that grows in my yard is wonderful too.

But how natural is the cacao that comes from around the world in my natural little paradise?

I mean it doesn't grow here, I can't pick it off any local trees. I tried one bite, and it was bitter but okay, not exciting to me at all.

I'm thinking that it excites something other than my taste buds probably a chemical in my brain, or maybe my caffeine addiction, but why should I enhance that? Especially when I am trying to get off of caffeine, and all?

So, I bought some, I have some, I've tasted some, I now know enough about it to know that it doesn't "feel" natural to me.

Doesn't mean I won't use it if I "feel" like I need a caffeine fix, or I need some chocolate taste, but It is for a once in a while treat, not a daily dose of caffeine in the am like David Wolfe does.

And about the plagerism issue.

I know there are no new thoughts, I know you can't copyright a recipe, I know you can easily have basically the same idea as someone else, but when you take someones book, and reprint it word for word, and take money for it, and put your name on it, and don't give the other person any money or thanks or mention, then that is plagerism.

Tony Robbins, uses NLP, that he re-named and re-configured to NAC, Neuro Associative Conditioning, and copyrighted that, he is teaching NLP a little differently, but he has Always, Said THANK YOU, to the people who discovered it, and who taught him.

So, it's okay to pass on great info to others, it's okay to re-write the information in a better more easy to understand format, and it's okay to have a recipe that is similar to anothers, but it is NOT okay to take someones work and pass it off as your own.

So, I will not be buying anything that David Wolfe sells, because people are either honest, or they are not.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and I could be wrong, but at least it is MY opinion, and I didn't steel it from someone else.

[Fuzzball]

Fuzzball,

Well, tell us what you perceive as the truth please. I'd love to hear another side.

Revvell

Revvell,

At this time, I can't give you anything solid to base my beliefs on...I'll have to relisten to the recording I made of his discussion.

I'm not trying to duck the question, just don't want to go off half-cocked.

Let me listen to some of the information again and I'll put up a very reasoned reply. Who knows, maybe I'll even find something to be concerned with, but at this time, I don't.

Just something to ponder as I study (which can't happen while I'm at work), David and Shazzie spent a lot of time putting this together. It appears that a lot of money was invested on their part. They are a couple of the Raw pioneers and have been responsible for bringing thousands of people into the Raw lifestyle. Do you believe that they would risk all of that with something that was a bold faced lie?

I'll get back to you as soon as I have an opportunity to listen again.

Thanks for the reply.

[Fuzzball]

Janine, I was not criticizing you, just noting that this post was filled with a lot of negativity and very little fact.

I too am new to Raw and I want the best information. I don't want to base my decisions on a few people who may have an axe to grind or have had a bad experience with something. As I read the post you referenced, I saw the whole tenor of it move from one of negativity to support.

My real concern is that the title of your post, "Are we being sold a bill of goods" sets a negative tone.

Had it been "Raw Cacao, what are your thoughts?" or something inquiring without hedging toward a positive or negative, that may have been different, but as soon as I saw it it was like a dark cloud covering my soul.

Please, investigate as much as possible, ask questions (I still have thousands of them) but realise that when you start out with a title like that, followed by a link to what begins as a very negative post by people that many (most?) of us here don't know, trust, believe, etc. well, again, it saddens me to see this.

[Revvell]

Revvell,

Do you believe that they would risk all of that with something that was a bold faced lie?



Fuzzball,

Thank you for your response. As far as belief goes, I have none. I've read what David has said in his books. Whether they are plagarized or not is not my call. IF so, it's something he has to live with.

Basically, I do what works for me. I appreciate that folk put up things like this so I can question why I feel one way or another about something. For me, as RP said, the "raw" cacao doesn't energetically feel "right". Then again, sometimes oranges (or anything else) don't feel right energetically either.

Since I've been doing what I've been doing ~ all the exploring, experimenting, etc., mostly I'm interested in ~ what grows locally, what I can get locally ~ can I assist those who are growing organically ~ and locally ~ etc.

The rest? Mostly research and education.

Injoy ~

Revvell

[Punky]

I think the best thing to do is follow your own intuition on products like RP and Revvell also said...
so many controversial opinions out there in the "raw world"...
Eat lots of fresh veggies and fruits, nuts and seeds and if you are interested
in trying these "SUPERFOODS" go for it and see if it makes any difference
in your life...that is what I am experimenting with currently....
too hard to figure out others motives and bashing each other and finding
the truth...i tend to believe that the cacao is raw myself, BUT always
remain sceptical to a certain degree on it's health claims like with
anything else I hear.

in my experience, It does have stimulant effects though..i drank
some at the David Wolfe lecture at night and my hubby's too and I couldn't
sleep for hours! After I downed the two servings and it hit me
I felt really giggly almost ?high? for about 1/2 an hour....it also had Maca
in it I believe too...and some mild nervousness proceeded much later...
also I hadn't had dinner either, just carrots and an some oranges on the way up to the lecture...
now when I make it at home I haven't had that kind of effect, so
I think that's cause I drank two servings. At home when I use it,
the effects are much milder and I don't get the blood sugar drops
that I use to get with coffee use.
Anyways...everyone's experience will be different and follow what's right
for you and your lifestyle.
For me, raw cacao fits into my lifestyle right now in moderation.
David did recommend it personally to me when I asked him about my ADD...
so I think RP is right about the chemical mind effect (which is why I use
it).

[Fuzzball]

Rawpriestess,

before you give up on that cacao, try grinding some (about 15 beans) into a fine powder, add some agave nectar then drizzle it over a frozen banana.

My wife loves this....it's even awesome over frozen Durian.

Other than that, I can't speak to the plagerism, I have no knowledge of it.

But you are correct, they are your thoughts and you are completely entitled to them and to express them. I have a lot of respect for you, you are very active here and always willing to help people, so I have no problem with that.

Thanks for your input.

[Gosia]

that even our :) Alissa experienced serious toxicity sympotms after ingesting raw cacao, including heart palpitations. I've read multiple similar such stories (serious sleep problems after ingesting raw cacao is another issue). Not surprisingly, as raw cacao does contain toxins. The information that Sharon posted on vegsource is widely available in textbooks. You can also read an article by Frederic Patenaude, who shares similar views on the topic, on his website.

Now, as far as the quality of raw food boards, NFL is well known (it is not mentioned too often, because people got sick of this issue) to be funded from unethically gained moneys, and if you try to mention the plagiarism, or even ask about that, you will get banned from there. Having said that, I do not want to start here another discussion about plagiarism. This has already happenned on living foods boards. If you do a search there, you will find the detailed information, including the evidence of plagiarism (paragraph by paragraph, chapter by chapter). There is more information available about other aspects of David Wolfe's less than perfect behaviour, but why waste our time on it? Instead, let's focus on positive things.

In the end, it is up to an individual whether they like the fuzzy feeling raw cacao gives them, or not.

All the best,
Gosia.

[Rawkinlocs]

Moderator's note:

If this thread is about cacao, then let's stick to cacao and leave the plagerism discussion where it is, please.

I read this thread earlier when it was first posted and the subtitle of the OP ("original post" for those who don't know) and it DID mention cacao, but apparently it doesn't anymore. I just don't want or NEED to bring up all the debate and controversy that has taken place, as Gosia said, already on other boards, here on THIS board. Alissa and I both feel this way as we discussed it earlier today. So yes, I deleted the direct thread to the plagerism discussion from Gosia's post (nothing personal towards you Gosia - you're cool peeps in my book! ;) ) because if someone wants to research that issue further, then as it was mentioned, you can find it on other boards. No use beating a dead horse!

Thanks!

[angelandarose]

Just tossed my "raw" cacao in the trash. Thanks Sharon.

Revvell


Shoot if anyone else feels like tossing out their cocao I'd love to buy it off ya. I have never tried it and I want to see what all the fuss is about. ;)


Love,
Angie

[RawTruth]

I grind up some nibs occasionally to stir into my ice cream along with carob to give it a more "dark chocolate" flavor. And, I've made chocolates for my choco-holic friend to help persuade her over to the raw side ;). However, when this first experimental bag is gone, I won't be buying it again.

Whether it's truly raw isn't my concern so much as not buying into the "superfoods" thing. If I lived where cacao and maca and goji berries grew, perhaps I'd feel differently. But, since I don't, it just doesn't make sense to me that they are what my body needs to function optimally.

I, took, have had the opportunity to hear Mr. Wolfe ... and my gut was flashing red warning lights the whole time (actually, that would have been kinda funny to see!). With many years in marketing ... and, maybe, just many years ... what I heard was laced with too much hype and obvious self promotion for me to be comfortable.

That cacao is the "perfect" food just doesn't make sense, it's too unbalanced, and, certainly isn't something that's espoused by the true raw pioneers (which I don't consider him to be). Of course, Ann Wigmore is no longer with us, so she can't weigh in on this, but there are plenty of people who've been thriving on live food for 15 - 20 yrs and beyond (see Paul Nisan's books) and they all eat from a wide range of fruits and vegetables.

I like what Victoria Boutenko says in the 7th of Seven Common Mistakes Commonly Made on Raw Foods:

The biggest mistake that many make is they listen to the raw food "authorities" and don't trust the invaluable messages their own bodies communicate. (Emphasis mine)

She elaborates on this in her talks. When I heard her, it reminded me of a book by Sheldon Kopp entitled If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him in which we're cautioned instead of looking to an all-knowing "expert" each of us must look inside for our answers.

[VeganVixen]

OOOh , mean sheldon - poor buddha :( , ;)

I agree with you , cocoa *I believe* couldnt be consumed in a large quantity , and would whack you out a bit if you did I would guess , so imo how about go to dark purple and orange produce if your looking for a powerful "superfood" -all the goodness without the side effects! :)

[swingbolder]

It doesn't matter to me that cacao beans and goji berries come from across the world. . . so do my bananas and I eat them everyday.

I'm not interested in cacao though bc of the stimulant properties. Even as an SAD person I rarely drank coffee bc it always made me jittery and sometimes upset my stomach.

[VeganVixen]

yes your banannas probably come from mexico , but they are in a form where they have to be shipped and treated a bit more quickly and delicately , while the cocoa beans can be shipped and stored for much more time.

[RawTruth]

they're from Ecuador. :)

[Revvell]

they're from Ecuador. :)

What are? 'nanas? You ship yours in from Equador?

[VeganVixen]

oops ,sorry !

[Fuzzball]

Also, according to the testing that was sighted at David's seminar, the caffiene in cacao is in the shell. Once the shell is removed, the remaining bean is virtually caffiene free.

Not sure what other stimulants you are concerned with.

Personally, I don't get jittery nor do I feel any different after consuming cacao nibs. I didn't really like them direct from the bag, but then again, a lot of the foods I am currently consuming as a Raw foodist were never on my preferred list of foods.

Anyways, I have some studying to do in order to answer Revvell.

[Punky]

Also, according to the testing that was sighted at David's seminar, the caffiene in cacao is in the shell. Once the shell is removed, the remaining bean is virtually caffiene free.

Not sure what other stimulants you are concerned with.

Personally, I don't get jittery nor do I feel any different after consuming cacao nibs. I didn't really like them direct from the bag, but then again, a lot of the foods I am currently consuming as a Raw foodist were never on my preferred list of foods.

Anyways, I have some studying to do in order to answer Revvell.

from what I remember, at the seminar I went to with david, he does say that there is caffeine in the cacao bean itself; it just has a different effect on ones system since it is not cooked or heat treated. I have the Nakid Chocolate book laying around here somewhere...I should look it up and quote
it for accuracy, but it is late and I am tired. so maybe tomarrow if someone wants to know what he says exactly.

(from my experience)The caffeine is much less than in coffee or tea so one may not notice it much if they are not very sensitive to it. But some people are more sensitive to it and DO feel it; like anything else its individual.
When I put it in my smoothies I feel good and it does hold off my appetite
a bit more than usual (which is good for me since I am trying to lose weight).;
I do not get the highs and lows I get from coffee with my blood sugar
and moods swings and nervousness. But I still think it is a mild stimulant somewhat...whether that's good or bad is individual. I am ok with it for myself in this time in my life. I believe the minerals and stuff in it, i.e. magnesium, etc... are beneficial to me and that cacao is more healthy than not for me at this time in my life. I think that david is right on that it is a mood enhancer because it effects ones neurotransmitters....Just my humble opinion of course.

Peace

[tglasco4]

I think the issue that bothers me the most about that thread was not the cacao. It was the energy placed in trying to "expose" others as liars and hypocrites as if those doing the exposing were upright and righteous. If one doesn't want cacao, don't eat it! If you think its being advertised as raw and its not don't buy it! I have ceased going on that site as far as the threads months ago because of that judgemental and mean spirit I feel there. Being raw is wonderful but I have learned from that site that being raw cannot make a filthy heart pure, nor a judgemental person nice. In some instances the people seem downright rude. Its none of my business what David Wolfe writes in his book nor where he got his information. If I like the book and think it will aid me in my raw journey, then I will buy it, if not, then I won't. Very little information, with regards to nutrition is actually original or new. Its all been done and said before, like the bible says "there is no new thing under the sun". So anyone that writes anybook about the subject of nutrition is bound to be repeating information that someone else has written somewhere else. If people want to eat cacao and say they are raw, that is their business and its not for me to down them or say otherwise.

My two cents for sure. :o ..lol

Todd

[Revvell]

I think the issue that bothers me the most about that thread was not the cacao. It was the energy placed in trying to "expose" others as liars and hypocrites as if those doing the exposing were upright and righteous. If one doesn't want cacao, don't eat it! If you think its being advertised as raw and its not don't buy it!..... Its none of my business what David Wolfe writes in his book nor where he got his information. If I like the book and think it will aid me in my raw journey, then I will buy it, if not, then I won't. If people want to eat cacao and say they are raw, that is their business and its not for me to down them or say otherwise.
Todd

I concur.


:cool:

[Sharon in Colorado]

I think the issue that bothers me the most about that thread was not the cacao. It was the energy placed in trying to "expose" others as liars and hypocrites as if those doing the exposing were upright and righteous.
Todd

Hey Todd, when I first read that, I was thinkin' who, us? But then my mind went back to when we were posting to this thread, and remembered that there *was* a person or two on that other message board that was kinda making a big stink about it.

That is how I found out about the plagiarism. Someone took an awful lot of time to type out all the text to compare the two books. It is amazing to me - dh says I spend so much time on the computer. Well, it must be nothing compared to some folks who really spend quite a bit of time and energy picking apart stuff and detailing certain kinds of info for other folks to read.

But maybe it's worth it. I could still be using Bragg's Liquid Amino's or soy products, or believe that all these superfoods are going to cure my problems if that info wasn't available.

Something to think about, huh?

[Punky]

I think the issue that bothers me the most about that thread was not the cacao. It was the energy placed in trying to "expose" others as liars and hypocrites as if those doing the exposing were upright and righteous. If one doesn't want cacao, don't eat it! If you think its being advertised as raw and its not don't buy it! I have ceased going on that site as far as the threads months ago because of that judgemental and mean spirit I feel there. Being raw is wonderful but I have learned from that site that being raw cannot make a filthy heart pure, nor a judgemental person nice. In some instances the people seem downright rude. Its none of my business what David Wolfe writes in his book nor where he got his information. If I like the book and think it will aid me in my raw journey, then I will buy it, if not, then I won't. Very little information, with regards to nutrition is actually original or new. Its all been done and said before, like the bible says "there is no new thing under the sun". So anyone that writes anybook about the subject of nutrition is bound to be repeating information that someone else has written somewhere else. If people want to eat cacao and say they are raw, that is their business and its not for me to down them or say otherwise.

My two cents for sure. :o ..lol

Todd


Nicely said Todd...
good point and I totally agree...

[Gosia]

"It was the energy placed in trying to "expose" others as liars and hypocrites as if those doing the exposing were upright and righteous."

Why one can not believe that there might be some honest people around?

Honesty is very important to me, both internally and externally. And, being commited to raw foods, I do feel responsibility for promoting the truth and honesty in the raw food movement. I feel that it is the right and natural thing to do. I would not want to be any other way.

For example, when I was a teacher in a primary school in Poland, at a final-year school meeting, a principal was suggesting to fail a certain number of students based purely on the numbers she wanted in classes for the next year. Could I stand everyone silently accepting her decision? No way! Did I express my thoughts? Yes way! Did I get a job at that school next year? No way! Was it all worth it! Yes!!!

I am a genuinely honest person. I hate lying. Is this something extraordinary? Should I believe that I am as much a liar as anyone else, when I am not? I really truly do not understand why I should feel bad about my desire for honesty. Despite the hurt caused by the above highlighted words, I will passionately remain who I am.

"So anyone that writes anybook about the subject of nutrition is bound to be repeating information that someone else has written somewhere else."

True, and there is nothing wrong with it. But, if one takes chapter by chapter, word for word, from soemone else's book, and puts their own name on it, then it is not OK.

These are my two cents, ;)

Make it three, :p :

Raw Cacao: A Veritable Cocktail of Opiates and Stimulants
by Michelle A


"Chocolate seems to be the latest fad food in the raw food world these days, and it's not surprising, considering its complex and addictive chemical makeup.

It is a dire mistake to promote or consume raw cacao with the expectation that it is in any way a healthy or health supporting food. It is, however, a powerful stimulant, and when ingested will inspire a vast range of physiological responses in the body, as the human organism attempts to neutralize, process, and eliminate these poisons.

The authors of the raw food literature on cacao openly extol the effects of these stimulants, and are not trying to hide the fact that they exist.... they promote the food BECAUSE of the stimulants, not in spite of them. As long as you are aware of this, you will have the information necessary to decide whether or not to include this food as part of your diet.

If you prefer to derive your energy from healthy foods, rest, sunshine, and fresh air, then cacao is most decidedly not for you.

If, on the other hand, you enjoy the "quick fix" nature of caffeine and theobromine, and enjoy the rush of energy obtained as your body vigorously attempts to eliminate what it perceives as a poison, then cacao may be a drug/food that you enjoy using.

Theobromine, for example (used as a high blood-pressure medication) is one of the substances responsible for cacao's powerful effects on the body. The fact that chocolate and cacao products are sometimes lethal to dogs, horses, and other domestic animals is primarily because they metabolize theobromine at a slower rate than humans do. The longer theobromide remains in the body, the more damage it does. The fact that we as humans are capable of eliminating it fast enough to avoid death in no way means that we do so fast enough to avoid harm.

Our hearts, nervous system, and kidneys are all affected, resulting in restlessness, muscle tremors, increased urination, and other symptoms, all of which are frequently reported by those consuming raw cacao.

Ironically, the purer and more natural cacao is, the higher the concentration of theobromine will be. Raw cacao is about as pure and "natural" as chocolate can get, and therefore the theobromine dose will be as high as possible.

Although you may, on some level, enjoy the stimulation experienced as your blood vessels dilate and your body increases adrenaline production in an effort to remove the theobromine as quickly as possible, rest assured that your body does not enjoy it. It works tirelessly to keep you healthy and free from poisonous substances, and efforts such as those required to eliminate cacao’s byproducts result in eventual enervation and fatigue, sometimes sooner, sometimes later, but always eventually.

Caffeine is yet another familiar drug found in chocolate. It is sometimes claimed that the amount of chocolate found in cacao is negligible, but any serious laboratory analysis reveals this claim to be mistaken, if not a deliberate deception.

Caffeine increases the amount of calcium lost in the urine, and this potential to weaken our bones is but the tip of the iceberg. As the body detects the presence of caffeine in the blood stream, it makes a rapid effort to remove it as quickly as possible. The liver releases a rush of sugars into the bloodstream in an attempt to increase energy to the point that the poison can be dealt with, placing heavy stress on the endocrine system.

Although cacao is a veritable cocktail of opiates and stimulants, it would be inappropriate and unnecessary to do a point-by-point treatise on each of them. Suffice it to say that it doesn't get any better than what we've already covered.

We haven't even touched on the fact that "raw cacao" is far from fresh, and often far from raw, despite claims to the contrary.

Any food requiring fermentation and subsequent drying in order to ship, store, or consume should be automatically suspect.

If one considers raw cacao to be a "health food," then it's clear that one has a very unique and rather dangerous definition of what constitutes health. There are no shortcuts to true and lasting energy and vitality. The stimulation derived from such a food is but a pale comparison of the energy, strength, focus, and fortitude to be found when a commitment is made to all of the tenets of health, including, but by no means limited to, fresh, raw, organic, wholesome foods, rest and sleep, exercise, sunshine, and fresh air. "


All the best,
Gosia.

[sweetgoddess]

Everytime a thread like this comes around, I truly cringe.
Cacoa and researching and debating its properties are one thing. It is certainly up to us to gather facts and determine whether something is for us or not.
But accusations made against living, breathing beings and debating a persons worth have no place here.
It is not a beneficial thing to judge or condemn anyone! Just as nobody but you can really know your truth, neither can you know theirs. And it is not our place to judge, nor is it in our best interest.

Lets remain in the spirit of support, kindness and openmindedness that is the trademark of this forum! :)

[SedonaSun]

Do you believe that they would risk all of that with something that was a bold faced lie?

A GENERAL COMMENT not having anything to do with David or Shazzie specifically...

Money is a powerful motivator. People have "sold" lies and risked their reputations for the almighty buck over and over and over. People kill people for money (not to mention far lesser things) and risk ruining their reputations, their families, their lives...

The potential for monetary gain can make a person stupid. People will find all sorts of ways to justify a poor decision.

Again, not directed in the least towards David and Shazzie or anyone else, but at humans in general. :p

[Sharon in Colorado]

A GENERAL COMMENT not having anything to do with David or Shazzie specifically...

Money is a powerful motivator. People have "sold" lies and risked their reputations for the almighty buck over and over and over. People kill people for money (not to mention far lesser things) and risk ruining their reputations, their families, their lives...

The potential for monetary gain can make a person stupid. People will find all sorts of ways to justify a poor decision.

Again, not directed in the least towards David and Shazzie or anyone else, but at humans in general. :p

Kelly you have made a great point. I've done some pretty stupid things in the name of the almighty dollar. I don't think lying or cheating is above anyone, no matter what your belief, religion or ethic is.

[RawTruth]

"It was the energy placed in trying to "expose" others as liars and hypocrites as if those doing the exposing were upright and righteous."

. . . Despite the hurt caused by the above highlighted words, I will passionately remain who I am.

. . . Gosia,

If I may step in here, I believe that Todd was referring to the thread on another site about which this thread was started. See post #1 for that thread. I don't think he was referring to these posts or any of us here at Alissa's. (If I've misinterpreted you, Todd, please clarify.)

[Faith]

A GENERAL COMMENT not having anything to do with David or Shazzie specifically...

Money is a powerful motivator. People have "sold" lies and risked their reputations for the almighty buck over and over and over. People kill people for money (not to mention far lesser things) and risk ruining their reputations, their families, their lives...

The potential for monetary gain can make a person stupid. People will find all sorts of ways to justify a poor decision.

Again, not directed in the least towards David and Shazzie or anyone else, but at humans in general. :p

Very true, some people see the "green" (not veggies) and drop all caution to the wind.

stealing is stealing and no one can sugar coat it, to make it look better or ok.

[tglasco4]

Thanks RawTruth. Yes, that is correct. I was responding to the statement regarding the thread from another site that was mentioned. My comments were about that site and its participants. I was in no way referring to this site at all. My apologies for the confusion.

Peace.

Todd

[Mike]

If I lived where cacao and maca and goji berries grew, perhaps I'd feel differently. But, since I don't, it just doesn't make sense to me that they are what my body needs to function optimally.


I love raw cacao and I eat a few beans daily. I toss them into my green smoothie. There are many benefits to eating them.

Don't avoid cacao just because it was grown far away.

I eat mostly locally grown foods, but that is impossible during the winter.

For example, I eat banana's from south america or mexico, oranges & grapefruits from Florida, avocados, dates, and almonds from california, cranberries from Oregon, cherries from Washington, brazil nuts from brazil, macadamia nuts & pine nuts from Hawaii, cashews & durian from SE Asia, etc...

[Revvell]

I love raw cacao and I eat a few beans daily. I toss them into my green smoothie. There are many benefits to eating them.

Don't avoid cacao just because it was grown far away.

I eat mostly locally grown foods, but that is impossible during the winter.

For example, I eat banana's from south america or mexico, oranges & grapefruits from Florida, avocados, dates, and almonds from california, cranberries from Oregon, cherries from Washington, brazil nuts from brazil, macadamia nuts & pine nuts from Hawaii, cashews & durian from SE Asia, etc...

None of which are packaged other than in their own fruit skin and a bag to carry them in.


:cool: