Vinegar / marinated / pickled curiosity

[anthony11]

I'm pretty new to the ideas of a raw diet, and reading through Alissa's book I was a bit surprised to see olives and marinades. I would have thought that fruits/veggies processed/pickled would be counter to the idea of being raw. Any thoughts, here? I'm wondering how things like traditional pickled cucumbers are seen wrt rawness, or Italian-style gardeniera (pickled cauliflower, celery, etc) or lupini beans in brine.

[Revvell]

Marinating and pickeling is not counter to raw ~ unless it's been done commercially. Then, SOMEthing more has to be done to it ~ heated/additives, etc. to maintain shelf-life. If you read the recipes, do you see any heating? Raw means, unheated.... i.e., not cooked.

Revvell

[Rawkinlocs]

ITA with Revvell. There are raw olives - she's not referring to the ones you buy in a jar at the grocery store. The marinades, not pre-made ones - you marinade yourself using whatever ingredients the recipe calls for.

The vinegar she speaks of, apple cider vinegar (Bragg's brand comes to most folks' minds) is not the same as the vinegar you see in most stores.

[rawnappy]

Thanks for the replies concerning this. If you had not mentioned a brand I would have brought just plain ole vinegar at the grocery store. So how do the olives come? Are they like the ones I see on salad bars?

[tracyinfo]

Raw olives are easy to get on line. However, at regular grocery stores, you will most likely not find them. I have a huge health food store fairly close to me that sells raw olives at their olive bar.

Good luck.

[anthony11]

Marinating and pickeling is not counter to raw ~ unless it's been done commercially. Then, SOMEthing more has to be done to it ~ heated/additives, etc. to maintain shelf-life. If you read the recipes, do you see any heating? Raw means, unheated.... i.e., not cooked.
I've seen/heard people taking "raw" to mean more than just uncooked (eg you sort of imply that additives aren't "raw"), so I thought I would politely ask. I've yet to see a recipe for "raw" cucumber pickles or olives, though I've seen a number that *call for* the latter.

Apple cider vinegar is what I grew up using -- I didn't even know that 'white' vinegar existed until I was in my 20's.

[VeganVixen]

most of the regular apple cider vinegars are highly processed and not raw , braggs is pretty much your only safe bet!

[anthony11]

most of the regular apple cider vinegars are highly processed and not raw , braggs is pretty much your only safe bet!
I'm not convinced that 'processed' is always significant, especially since Alissa's book (and I'm sure others) include lots of heavily-processed recipes, but I'll certainly look for the Bragg's.

[Rawkinlocs]

Anthony, there is a grave difference between processing your food yourself i.e. using a blender or food processor - the food is still raw and fresh - and the processing done in plants and companies that usually (with extremely high temperatures) boil, steam, add chemical preservatives, strip the nutrients only to have to add them back in, refine, etc.

I had to see for myself what recipe(s) called for olives and pickles and I only came across one, the black olive tapenade. There are raw black olives available - here is a link to one of the places that carry them: http://www.naturalzing.com/nzfoodol.htm

But I didn't find anything calling for pickles; at least not in the index (the one in the book or the updated one here on the board).

[VeganVixen]

yeah , I meant what rawkinlocs said, regular apple cider vinegar is almost a chemical in the way its been treated - its VERY strong and not a "whole" food item , unlike braggs apple cider vinegar which uses the whole apple , and is not refined or turned into a "frankenfood" :p with chemical additives. ;)

[anthony11]

I had to see for myself what recipe(s) called for olives and pickles and I only came across one, the black olive tapenade. There are raw black olives available - here is a link to one of the places that carry them: http://www.naturalzing.com/nzfoodol.htm

But I didn't find anything calling for pickles; at least not in the index (the one in the book or the updated one here on the board).
I actually don't care for olives, but had thought that they needed to be treated with a strong base otherwise they were toxic. On pickles -- I don't have a recipe for them, but adore hamburger and garilc dills so I'd love to be able to continue to eat them if I adhere to a raw diet. Any thoughts on the commercial Claussen's ones? They don't contain alum and are stocked in the refrigerated section instead of shelves.

[asil]

1. Raw, untreated olives aren't toxic but they are *very* bitter. Canned, Lindsey-type olives are treated with lye; more traditional type olives can be brined (which can be heated or not, depending on the type) or sundried. I don't know how they ones online sold as raw are treated since I've never ordered them.

2. I don't know about Claussens. They might be like the refridgerator pickles my mom used to make -- basically a cold-brining process. One brand I do know that uses a cold brining process is called Bubbies and is sold in the refridgerator section in my local Central Market, Whole Foods, and our local food co-op.

Provecho!

[Rawkinlocs]

I actually don't care for olives, but had thought that they needed to be treated with a strong base otherwise they were toxic. On pickles -- I don't have a recipe for them, but adore hamburger and garilc dills so I'd love to be able to continue to eat them if I adhere to a raw diet. Any thoughts on the commercial Claussen's ones? They don't contain alum and are stocked in the refrigerated section instead of shelves.

Most canning processes require the jar being boiled with the contents in it. But if eating pickles out of the jar will help you stay raw in other areas, eat them until you no longer feel the "need" for them. Some people can get into eating all raw cold "tofurky" while others transition, adding more raw and getting rid of cooked things little by little.

But you CAN make your own pickles. What I do sometimes is look on the jar or container, etc. of a cooked item and see the main (fresh) ingredients and try to recreate it in a raw version. For example, your standard pickle has cucumbers (of course) and then a brine made of vinegar (in which case you'd use apple cider vinegar), salt (use celtic sea salt or Real Salt brand), garlic (that's a no-brainer), dill (you can use fresh dill weed or dill seeds), probably onion, etc. and water. Put in a jar and taste test for your desired flavor until it's to your liking. Allow to sit on the counter for a couple of days or so and then refrigerate OR refridgerate from the beginning and let them marinate.

In fact, here is an article/recipe for making your own raw pickles:
http://associate.com/groups/healthseeker/read/?00::068

[Autumn]

Oooooh I'm definitely going to do this. Our cucumbers should be piling in in another month or so. :D

[rawpriestess]

I've been making my own raw pickles for years, and they are wonderful, the secret is to keep the veggies under the brine, kind of like keeping the sundried tomatoes under the olive oil.

All I do is use apple cider vinegar, water, salt, dill, pickling spice, garlic (optional) and the veggie of choice, and put in a huge bucket with a plate on top and a brick on top of that to keep all the veggies under the brine, it is that easy.

We always have a bucket in the kithcen.

You can actually use other veggies too, but I like the crispness of the cucumbers, most other veggies go soft.

[Rawkinlocs]

Hi RawPriestess!

That's funny...everytime I've ever tried using cucumbers, I always get soft rather than crunchy pickles :(

But lately, I've been doing banana peppers! I've ALWAYS loved those and now, I make my own and I can hardly keep the jar full because my kids keep eating them up!

[rawpriestess]

OH, I love those peppers, they are delicious.

We use whole cucumbers, the baby baby tine barbie doll kind, about 1 1/2 inches long, they are soooooooo crispy and good.

But peppers, yes, they are wonderful, we also use onion, zucchini (they get soft) and carrots, parsnips, squash, turnips, asparagus, corn, garlic, just about anything we have lying around.

yummmmmm, I love pickles.

[anthony11]

That's funny...everytime I've ever tried using cucumbers, I always get soft rather than crunchy pickles :(
Many commercial brands add stuff like alum or calcium chloride to increase crunchiness. One reason I've liked the Claussen's ones is that they don't use alum. Maybe dietary aluminum is linked with Alzheimer's and maybe it isn't. I'm not taking the chance.