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[Cinammon]

Hi everyone

This is probably going to sound like an awful question to you all, so please don't all jump on me at once(!) but: do you think there are some people who genuinely need to eat meat/cooked food?

I was vegetarian for over ten years, and was totally vegan for three months, couldn't keep vegan thing going. My body seriously thought I was trying to kill it! Went back to being vegetarian.

A few years later, I heard about raw foods through Shazzie's blog, and thought, 'Of course!'

Tried a raw vegan diet, lasted 5 months, couldn't keep going. Think part of the problem was that I couldn't afford organic stuff, so had to buy pesticised (is that a word?) and after a couple of months, could feel pesticides actually sticking in my throat (that may have been imagination).

I've actually since (after 10 years as a committed vegetarian, and animal rights supporter) gone back to meat. Don't all hate me!! I was feeling v v ill, and it must have been bad for me to even consider meat again.

Now, I feel slightly better physically, but not great otherwise. Would really like to try the raw food diet again, and do it properly this time (organic, good meals, no soya, etc) but don't want to risk my health again (I know, I know ...).

Do you all feel that everyone can do the raw diet, or that some people simply don't have the genetic make up for it?

And please don't all hate me for the meat-eating thing! I really liked Starfire's reply on returning to raw veganism; that 'You found your way home again'; and think help from a group of committed rawists would help: but not if you're all going to lecture me on how evil I am over the meat thing (this doesn't seem like that kind of forum, but you never know ...!!)

Thanks for listening!

Cinammon

[Eva]

First off, welcome! :)

To answer one of your questions, I don't think any humans are genetically wired for meat... but some people might have a tougher time weaning themselves if they've been raised on and eaten lots of meat for all of their lives.

No one's going to attack you, but I'm giving you fair warning that we really only discuss non-meat raw food stuff around here. I'm sure there are people that have something other than raw vegan food sometimes, but we just don't discuss that aspect of diet on this forum. ;)

That said... I feed my dog raw meat, and it tears me up to do it, but HE really is genetically made up to eat meat...

[Conscious Midwife]

I don't think we are genetically made for meat but I do think that some of us have had it so long that our bodies have made lifetime adaptations that 5 months vegan won't overcome.

My verdict is still out regarding raw for life, but RAW is my life now:)

WELCOME back, grab a chair an green smoothie and stay a while.

[Surrender To Raw]

I don't think humans were ever intended to eat meat. But it's difficult giving up something you've done your whole life even when you know how harmful it is. I think that speaks more to the addictive nature of meat & other cooked food rather than anything genetic.

Don't worry, no one is going to lecture or attack you. We're here to give support & encouragement. I encourage you to try the raw lifestyle again. I think you'll feel better everyday. I know I do.

[Yeshia]

You Will Be Fine Here And Made Welcome By All
Oxoxoxooxoxoxo:)

[Cinammon]

Thank you so much, everyone!! Much appreciated! I think you're right - meat (or the thought you need meat) is addictive. (I know I'm addicted to dairy, but maybe that's more emotional than physical).

And when you're brought up believing that a healthy diet needs meat as the main part, it is very hard, at a deeper level than I'd imagined, to change that outlook. Forums like this one, filled with people who are living happily and healthily on the raw food diet, can help tremendously. (to state the obvious ...)

Really like the energy here. Hope I can be a part of it.

I think, too, I'd underestimated the sheer amount of effort needed to go raw, and I didn't do it properly at all the first time. And it is scary, to go against everything the majority of people still believe about health.

One major boost is the 'before and after' photos - the vast majority of all raw foodists look so beautiful, with such a glow!

Sooo - tomorrow I'm going to buy a blender, get some raw recipes, and start all over again!!

PS: It's been interesting as a meat eater this time around - I found myself less interested in animal rights than I've ever been before. Probably because going back to meat was soooo traumatic, I had to block the whole thing out: then really believed we 'need' meat, so clearly this was the way it had to be, so tough.

Really didn't like that way of thinking! It meant blocking out what I've always known - that animals have spirits and feelings and do come to trust and love humans. And that battery farming is just plain obscene.

God, I hope I can make the raw food thing work this time around. I feel torn in two. Maybe I've a raw vegan spirit in a carnivore's body(!) Well, the body's going to have to readjust! It would be great if this site could be a major part of that.

See how it goes. This time, I'm not expecting to feel great straight out the box - and I won't be so hard on myself if I slip every now and again.

God/Goddess/Love bless y'all.

Cinammon

[jacsam]

Cinnamon, have you read Alissa's book and watched her DVD....I'm thinking you'll find a wealth of information to help you with your transition in it. Maybe you have already read it. Good Luck!!! Judith :)

[Cinammon]

Thanks, Judith. I'll definitely get the DVD at some point - as soon as I can afford it! Alissa always seems to talk such sense. I thought I'd just go for the DVD; get the recipes!

Yeah - would definitely help, to have such positive raw food associations, just as this site is helping tremendously!

Many thanks for your good wishes; much appreciated!

Love

Cinammon x

[islesgirl]

You Will Be Fine Here And Made Welcome By All
Oxoxoxooxoxoxo:)

Yeshia - Hi. I am quite new here and noticed in your post that you've lost at least 50 lbs. Would you mind telling us how long that took and how you did it? I have about 55 lbs to get rid of and am just beginning this journey and need all the help I can get. By the way, I liked the way you welcomed Cinnamon - very positive.:)

[islesgirl]

As you can see from all these lovely comments, we are all so glad you are here and hope that you will be encouraged day-by-day by the input from all. I, too, simply cannot afford to buy organic food, but I am doing this anyway in the hope that I will feel more energetic, less cravings and that I will lose weight. I was fine for the 1st. 3 weeks of December and then I went back to junk food and I lost all of that "feel good" feeling. I, too, want it back!:D

[Elle_Murphy]

I dont think your body thought you were "trying to kill it." We all go through that tough time when we are adjusting. That's why you will see the word 'detox' used a load of times at this board.

If things were that bad, sounds to me like a healing crises?

[Carlsbad]

Welcome Cinnamon!

I was a massive meat eater for my whole life. Most days I ate nothing but meat and dairy and potatoes (usually fried). Then I did the Master Cleanse for 14 days and just didn't feel like I wanted to eat meat after that. It was kind of bizarre, but awesome. I haven't eaten any meat since then. There were a couple of months when I missed hot dogs (weird but true), but that craving passed. Now all meat looks so gross to me. So if you are really having a hard time going without meat, I would suggest doing the Master Cleanse or something similar to reset your body a bit.

I've never seen or heard of a meat eater who looks and feels as good as a raw foodist, and that leads me to believe that there aren't people who physically need to eat meat. Being raw for five months is an awesome achievement, but I think it takes a couple of years of eating raw before you are freed from your cravings for SAD food. And then there's Storm Talifero, who's been raw for 30 years and still craves meat sometimes. But he stays raw, feels healthy, and looks half his age.

Ultimately, the choice is yours. You are obviously drawn back to raw for some reason, and I would say stick with that instinct and give raw another try. And definitely get Alissa's book; it's hugely helpful!

[ShelShel]

Welcome Cinnamon!:)

I used to be the most concerned about calcium.:rolleyes: I think it's just our upbringing, we get programmed and it's hard to change. Anywho...check out this site: http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php It will show you what foods have what and can help you make informed choices about nutrients you may need and where to find them.

I really feel so much better eating raw...and I really think anyone can eat 100% and be much healthier, but it's a journey. Some people speed on the highway of life....some follow the speed limit...still others get close to the shoulder with their hazards on and take their time. :D If it takes you longer to get there it's ok...you are still on your way...and we are all traveling in the same direction...towards health, happiness...and a vibrant life of RAW!!!!

God bless on your journey...welcome.

[shashibala]

Dear Cinnamon, I wonder if you were eating enough when you tried raw before? Cooked food and meat is highly concentrated so some people have to eat lots of raw food to feel satisfied at first. Also were you eating enough fats and oils? Your body needs some and they can be very satisfying. (avocados, olive oil, nuts, tahini, seeds etc...) How did your body tell you you were trying to kill it? Maybe if tell us more specifically people will recognize the feelings and can share what they did. Good luck to you and welcome!!! It will be worth it when you hit your stride!!!! Have a beautiful journey!:) :) :)

[hunny99]

I empathize with many things said by the original poster. The meat thing doesn't get me as much as the hot food thing does. One of the things that has helped me tremendously was after watching Alissa's DVD's and reading her book was meal preparation. I am a cook by nature. Any family events, I am always asked to cook. So even though it is time consuming, preparing meals has helped me fight off the urge to eat cooked. Although I want to move into eating more simply prepared meals in the future, right now making gourmet raw foods makes me feel like I am "cooking" dinner and serving it. I make a big production out of using my fancy plates and serving dishes just like I did when eating cooked. It helps with the psychological aspect of eating cooked. Hope that helps a little.

Hunny

[hibisanpo]

HI Cinnamon,

When I was a little girl, I decided on my own to be a vegetarian. All my middle school research papers were about animal rights, benefits of being a vegetarian, etc. In college, I went vegan for a short time, but it didn't last and so I went back to plain ol' veggie.
In grad school, I started eating meat again. I, too, seemed to totally forget about any knid of ethical, health and envirinamental reasons I was veggie,
and happily devoured cheeseburgers and beer. I mean REALLY? I cannot explain this behavior at all.
But then I discovered raw, and really feel that this is my lifestyle for the rest of my life. I had the "meat moment". But that was then.
Live and eat in the present!

[ferg]

Depending on what cooked food you are thinking of, I beleive that a little bit is just fine... I was totally raw for about 8 months, and felt that I was lacking something, then started incorporating just steamed veggies, baked potatoes and veggie soups... I feel a little more energized and eating the 'cooked' foods kept me fuller longer. While I am still 100% on some days, other days I'll eat raw until dinner and then have my cooked soup... still feel and look fantastic... so you definately don't have to be 100% raw to reap the benefits. But I do put restrictions on what I eat; such as I never let wheat pass my lips or anything refined or anything from a box. Those are my rules and I stick too them.

I just got a dehydrator for Christmas and I'm curious to see if the dehydrated meals I make will fill my stomach the same was as a baked potato does. I am hoping that dehydrating will put me back on 100% raw again... but I have no guilt about eating my baked veggies--so I will not pressure myself. I'm still eating better than 99.9% of the population.

[Cinammon]

Many thanks to everyone who replied - it was all really helpful!!

No - when I tried raw vegan before, my body did think I was trying to kill it, but I wasn't in the right place then (literally and figuratively) to do the raw diet.

This time I'm eating mostly fresh fruit and veg, and feel good! My body clearly needs detoxing, and I have cravings for the juicy freshness of fruit.

Am spending a fortune! but better spent on live foods than dead animals!! Thought about what Islesgirl said about not affording organic either but buying it anyway, and was inspired to do the same! Bit like having a baby - there's never a 'right' time or an 'affordable' time to really do it - so yeah, just do it!!

By coincidence, there was a programme on TV tonight about the raw food diet - and there I was, with my plateful of salad munchies, thinking, 'Great! my people! here's some info coming up!'

Then had to change channels quickly as they showed one raw foodist drinking her own urine! Turned back later, saw other raw foodist having a colonic! And I'm eating here ...! So much for synchronicity!!

Thanks again - I really do appreciate all your kind words. Means a lot.

Cinammon

[Eveleaf]

Hi Cinammon,

The mindset is HUGE here - viewing your body as natural, light, and nurished by living raw foods vs. seeing a SAD diet as "normal" and raw foodism as weird, deprived or extreme.

I have to cosmically thank my parents for raising me vegetarian, because even when I'm craving it, deep down I am repulsed by meat and dairy. That mindset has helped me dozens of times in little, half-aware moments, and probably is responsible for the "coming home" feeling I got the moment I heard of raw food as a lifestyle.

If you've had the opposite training (as most of us had, raised with the SAD diet shoved down our collective throats, until doctors scold us for not giving our children *cow lactation* but say nothing to parents who feed their kids McDonalds every day, sorry, :rolleyes: end rant), the good news is you CAN re-wire your own brain until this kind of thinking comes naturally to you. Let your senses guide you. When slicing up a cucumber or melon, take your time and inhale deeply. Eat slowly, savouring each bite and visualising how your body craves the nutrition and life-force of each bite. Focus on the lovely scents, colours, and tastes of your raw food.

In between meals, take time to think what you will eat next and to really crave it. If what you are planning for dinner doesn't excite you, scrap that idea and find one that does! And take every opportunity to remind yourself how grateful you are for living foods, the wonderful essence of plant life and your magnificient, intelligent body that thrives on it!

[maui_butterfly]

Then I did the Master Cleanse for 14 days and just didn't feel like I wanted to eat meat after that. It was kind of bizarre, but awesome. I haven't eaten any meat since then. There were a couple of months when I missed hot dogs (weird but true), but that craving passed. Now all meat looks so gross to me. So if you are really having a hard time going without meat, I would suggest doing the Master Cleanse or something similar to reset your body a bit.

ditto on the Master Cleanse experience; for me it wasn't meat, but COFFEE that i was finally after many years of struggle able to effortlessly step away from. AND when i got finished with my (11 day) cleanse, my body felt so cleaned and scrubbed and new that i didn't want to put anything in it but fresh fruits and vegetables, i discovered raw foods, and the rest is history!

do some people need to eat meat in their diet? i don't know. i can only answer for me, and you can only answer for YOU. one of the coolest things for me about the raw foods diet is how tuned in you become to what your body needs (after awhile). your instincts become more and more trustworthy it seems.