can i get a witness?

[maui_butterfly]

it seems like i read a fair amount of posts from women on this forum to the tune of "i'm trying to eat raw but my significant other is not supportive" or "my s.o. makes me cooked food and i am obligated to eat it" or "my s.o. won't try raw foods even though they should" and then it seems like everyone gives responses that are variations on the "poor you" theme (including the ever popular "kick him to the curb" remix).

this phenomenon is really troubling to me. i think as women we are conditioned to act like victims and encourage other women to act like victims by offering our sympathy when we should be offering a kick in the butt! i don't mean that in a rude way, i mean we should be offering that which will empower our fellow raw foodists to achieve optimum health (emotional and physical), and sympathy is not empowering. and i'm only saying this from experience... i spent a good portion of my life being awfully good at acting like a victim and getting others to rally to my "aid" or take my "side". once i let go of trying to control others and focused my attention exclusively on myself, once i took radical self-responsibility for my actions in the world, that is when change became possible.

any time you blame another human for what you put in your mouth, you are giving up your power in a serious way. if the other person is not physically holding you down and forcefeeding you, then there is only one person to point the finger at, the person in the mirror. nobody hurts us if we don't let them. the worst someone else can do to me is throw a dagger at my feet... it is my choice to pick it up and stab myself with it. there's not a perfect partner, or a perfect family, or a perfect scenario, whereby this path is effortlessly walked, so stop looking there and start looking the only place it counts... inside you. everything else is wasted time and effort.

and friends, if you want to be a real friend to me, please tell me when i'm acting like a victim! please hold up a mirror to my behavior and help me see where i am derailing my own efforts. because none of us has power or control over what another person says or does, and if our success (in this or any other endeavor) depended even an infinitesimal amount on other people doing or saying the "right" thing, then we might as well just quit now. in fact, lets. its just easier. i'll meet you all at the burger king drive thru in 15 minutes!

i'm joking of course. but my point is that, just as the physical health and wellbeing of our culture demands a radical departure from the SAD, the emotional health and wellbeing of our social dynamic demands a radical departure from the SOP (standard operating procedure). its not about blaming others, or blaming/shaming ourselves, its about owning our own power to affect our own lives, and helping others do the same.

[StarFire]

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/FireStar_830/high5.jpg ... Girl... AMEN....

I love your post.... ;)

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/FireStar_830/smiley_superhero.gif .... rawk on! :D

[Cabosun]

I love it too! We are all adults and responsible for our own wellbeing. :)

Lynn

[SuBu]

YES! Raw has been empowering for me. Hope others can see it that way too. Wonderful post.

[Frugal Raw]

Fantastic post! I can't tell you how frustrated I've gotten reading all the posts like you described. I read this quote not too long ago, and I think it sums it up well:

"So long as we are in the world, we shall meet with adverse influences. Day by day and year by year we shall conquer self, and grow into a noble heroism."

Ellen White
"Ministry of Healing" circa 1905

[RowanC]

Your words are true. We are all responsible adults and we can make our own decisions.

However, for most of us, this lifestyle is difficult, especially if the people we generally sit down at the table with aren't eating the same way we are. It means preparing two different meals (depending on your agreement about cooking), shopping for two different types of eating, and having to WATCH while someone eats the foods you are absolutely addicted to! It can be no less agonizing than a heroin addict watching a friend shoot up.

I'd say until you've been there, don't judge.

You are right. In the end we all must take responsibility.
But sometimes our emotional need for love and acceptance is stronger than our physical need for health and life.

This lifestyle can make or break a relationship. And that can be a scary thing.

Giving support to those people who are having a rough time is what this forum is about, or at least that's what it used to be about. Giving encouragement and applauding when they do good. That's what I'm looking for anyway....

It must be wonderful to be so strong, and so amazingly in control.
Not being that doesn't make one a victim.
The fact that they are HERE says volumes.
A victim doesn't seek help.

There's a solution to your frustration.
It's called the backarrow.

[EZ rider]

I think for a relationship to be healthy it should have mutual respect. This respect should extend to a persons food choices.

[RowanC]

The keyword here is "should"....
It's one of the traits of the great god, "Shouldawouldacoulda!"

We can all sit back and say what shoulda, woulda, coulda happen.

For one thing, we are of varying ages and come from varying backgrounds. Some are in relationships where agreements (spoken or unspoken) exist about whose job it is to do certain things in the relationship, such as cooking.

Some of us are old hippies who have more freedom running in our veins.

Some of us are younger, but religious, and feel we should do the cooking for the family.

Some of us are of the mind that each person should fend for themselves.

We all have our own reasons for being who we are.

The bottom line, to me, is that this is a forum to support, not judge others.
You support someone based on THEIR values, not your own.

I don't think it's bad to kick their butt (or mine) at all!
And it's true, they need to decide for themselves whether the relationship or the lifestyle is the priority.
But only they can make that decision, and in the meantime, we can offer kind support along with the buttkicking.

[SuBu]

RowanC--thanks for helping us see the other side of the coin--and that's what is so great about this site. Information, respect, help, comfort, and understanding. We are all so very different, with one connecting thread--RAW. How we handle it will also be very different and for every critic there will be at least as many sympathizers, and vice versa. We need both to be well-rounded and to learn about ourselves. One day we may need comfort, the next day a kick in the pants. Either response shows that someone cares.

[mystical rawmance]

I was brought up to be people pleaser, always trying to feel out their next emotion and need. My Mom demanded this. Playing out this game with her and others I ended up physically hurting myself. Once I became conscious of this game, I stepped out of it. Eventually she became conscius of it too. I believe that everyone is doing the best they can with what they were given in life. So many things are in play from people's past, neurochemicals in their brains, to their own health. It all effects how they treat you and deal with their world. You can still love people, while loving yourself. I completely agree, being a victim just empowers others to keep victiminzing. Once you take responsibitliry for your own actions, your own health, and your own feelings, the people that want to tear you down, will no longer have the power to do it, and they will walk away. The ones that love you that walk may walk back, and some will never walk away to being with.

No one can prevent you from taking care of yourself. Eating 100 percent raw is the biggest hug you can give yourself. You can't let anyone take that hug away. With the holidays coming sometimes well meaning friends and relatives can start the game of trying to get you to quit eating raw and taking care of yourself. You just step back, watch the game and smile. If you don't enter the game to begin with you don't have to play it. The cool thing is, you can still love them while watching the game.

[starborne]

Warning -- long post.

As a woman who has been on both sides of this issue (except not as it pertains to raw, I now have a very supportive husband), I concur with the original post.

I concur also that it is not necessarily an easy journey, this personal growth stuff. Eating raw and getting flack for doing so is only a symptom of an issue. It could just as easily be whether or not you want to change careers, go back to school ... whatever. Lots of times I have witnessed others and myself making positive changes only to receive criticism. For ONE thing, it puts surrounding people in an uncomfortable position of taking a look at themselves and where they are in their life. But this isn't about other people.

As a person who has spent the first 30-35 years or so in a victim mentality, I understand how it happens, how it is sustained, and now -- finally -- how to break this pattern.

At about age 35 (I'm now 50), I really started with a determination, my conscious personal development journey. I went from blaming others for my life circumstances and my unhappiness to examining myself and over analyzing me. Over time, I learned that I really wasn't doing anything more than self-critiquing and found I constantly was drawing people into my experience that were all too happy to join me in critiquing me too. In other words, I wasn't really 'growing', it was self-flagellation. As long as I was looking for something inside of me to 'heal' or 'fix' ... I would always find *something* that I didn't like. It seemed to never end.

In this part of my journey, I see how the universal principle of the Law of Attraction made my thinking continue as one thought attracted another critical thought -- until I started deliberately choosing thoughts that were uplifting, positive, loving, and and appreciative about myself and others. I acknowledge where I am, and then reach for where I want to go. I don't make myself 'wrong' or inadequate for being where I am, nor stop in reaching higher.

At times it can still be difficult. At times I feel like I'm lying to myself. So I simply back down the thought to something that feels more honest in the moment and then build the momentum from there.

The more I do this, the more my external environment changes while not having to manipulate others to agree with me or make it easier for me. It seems to happen magically on its own.

Whenever I find myself grumbling about how another person is behaving, I stop that line of thinking and start a new script in my head. It could go something like this if I had an unsupportive mate regarding eathing raw.

"This is BS, he's totally out-of-line in criticizing me and giving me a hard time. (an honest, in the moment starting point)
I guess the thing I need to ask myself is, do I agree with him? I know this way of eating is healthy for me.
He might be upset because he is remembering all the good times we've shared over food and he sees the food changing.
Perhaps he's afraid that our relationship will change too and is uncomfortable with that idea.
Maybe I can eat my food, bask and savor it, laugh with him and make meal times fun again even though we're eating differently.
You know, it's not like he's been unsupportive in other areas of my life. I remember when ___________________ and he was great! "

Anyway, you get the drift. The point I'm making is to change how YOU feel all by your lil' ole' Self. To reach for a higher and happier thought. Maybe not the highest you've ever felt toward your SO, just something a little higher than the feeling you want to bite his head off.

This works! It's worked for me in other areas of my life. It's about allowing and loving another person to be who they are, right where they are, while honoring your own choices.

[RawHeaven]

any time you blame another human for what you put in your mouth, you are giving up your power in a serious way. if the other person is not physically holding you down and forcefeeding you, then there is only one person to point the finger at, the person in the mirror. nobody hurts us if we don't let them.

Mauibutterfly, your words are very enlightening and I completely agree. Deprogramming from deep cultural expectations takes time and it's always a powerful statement to remind others that we are ultimately responsible for healing ourselves.

[ladypeace82]

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/ladypeace_82/garfield4.jpg

[justinesmith]

Wow, what a great thread. It is so empowering to not be a victim. I, too have been on both sides of the fence (glad I'm on this side now! :) ) and it did get awfully easy to make excuses for why I was or wasn't doing something based upon what someone else was "making me do" or "making me feel". What a waste of time. When I realized that no one could make me "feel" a certain way, I was able to change my outlook on everything whether it was past or present. And that's when I became free. I also have found a lot of posts that claim why someone "can't" do something. There is always a "can" in there somewhere and until we start figuring out what we CAN do (even tho it may not always be EXACTLY what we had wanted or the way we wanted) we will always be victims. Most of our greatest leaders came from nothing (ie. Dalai Lama). Thank goodness they didn't give up because they "couldn't".

Thank goodness we are here and thank goodness we can get the support we need. Maybe we could seriously ask ourselves next time something happens whether we are empowered or just playing the victim and try to find a solution instead of hanging out in the hurt. There is a lot of love on this forum and sometimes not so much love but the choice is always yours. ;)

[maui_butterfly]

You are right. In the end we all must take responsibility. But sometimes our emotional need for love and acceptance is stronger than our physical need for health and life.

This lifestyle can make or break a relationship. And that can be a scary thing.

Giving support to those people who are having a rough time is what this forum is about, or at least that's what it used to be about. Giving encouragement and applauding when they do good. That's what I'm looking for anyway...

thanks rowanc, i really do hear what you are saying about this forum being a place of support, encouragement, love, and acceptance. i guess i am just wondering out loud about how best to offer help and support to people.
i just think that, as women especially, we are good at offering sympathy to each other, that's our cultural norm. we are not so good at empowering each other. can we take these fabulous feminine qualities of kindness and empathy and understanding and apply them in a way that helps others break out of their destructive patterns and thought processes?

from my own experience, sympathy makes people "feel better" but it does not "help" them. the last thing i need when i'm throwing a pity party for myself is a bunch of girls patting me on my back saying "poor you" "mean him" "that's terrible" etc. that may very well be what i want, but it simply does not serve me. everyone wants to feel good, but this kind of sympathy only serves to make us feel CORRECT in our INCORRECT assumption that someone else is derailing our efforts. it helps us stay deluded. it allows us to keep our energy diffused in a bunch of different directions where it can do us no good. it gives us a full-blown case of the "if-onlies". it justifies us in keeping our limited viewpoints when what we really need to do is shift them.

the belief that changing someone else or changing the relationship is necessary to successfully walk your path is a limiting belief. to break out of our limiting beliefs, we must confront the question: do i want to be RIGHT, or do i want to be HAPPY? i can't have both! fact is, you don't have to wait until your kids are grown, your husband is nice to you, your mother in law accepts you, or your neighbors serve raw lasagne at their next backyard BBQ to eat raw foods yourself. you can be on the path today in spite of all your perceived handicaps if you keep your focus exactly where it needs to be, on yourself.

i am not "stronger" than anyone else. but my energy IS focused on the ONLY person who can help me or hinder me... ME. that wasn't always true. it took a kind, compassionate, and wise person relentlessly holding a mirror up to my behavior and not letting me focus on all the things other people needed to do in order for me to be happy. i think "kick in the butt" was too strong a term, but a gentle reminder to keep the focus where it belongs would do SOO much more to TRULY help someone who is struggling then a bunch of people buying into and perpetuating the story of how they cannot succeed under the current circumstances.

the food that goes into your body is a personal responsibility issue. you have choices! you can cry or laugh when someone makes a snide remark about your diet, eats french fries in front of you, or cooks you a lovely gourmet meal with not one bit of food that you can actually eat. its ALL ABOUT YOU. and guess what, that's not the bad news... that's the good news! because if the problem AND the solution lie with me, i can control that. if they lie with someone else, i'm powerless.

[northernstars]

Love the thread! I was feeling like a victim several weeks ago as I was trying to become more and more raw and staying away from the cooked foods which included meat. My husband was and is still preparing all my foods and he is not raw! But, he finally stopped when I got up the nerve to tell him I just did not want anymore meat or dairy! Even though he doesn't fully understand my reasoning, he has stopped offering those things to me! I really appreciate his doing so, too. He just brought me some raw vegetable juice which should tide me over until therapy is done today. He may not understand but he is at least trying to help me with this journey. And, as I have lost weight he is certainly more receptive to the raw foods.

[SuBu]

Wow, very enlightening thread. I feel like I'm at a tennis match! Wonderful getting all sides of the issue. Thank you all for a very educational and insightful ride.

[maui_butterfly]

Whenever I find myself grumbling about how another person is behaving, I stop that line of thinking and start a new script in my head. It could go something like this if I had an unsupportive mate regarding eathing raw.

"This is BS, he's totally out-of-line in criticizing me and giving me a hard time. (an honest, in the moment starting point)
I guess the thing I need to ask myself is, do I agree with him? I know this way of eating is healthy for me.
He might be upset because he is remembering all the good times we've shared over food and he sees the food changing.
Perhaps he's afraid that our relationship will change too and is uncomfortable with that idea.
Maybe I can eat my food, bask and savor it, laugh with him and make meal times fun again even though we're eating differently.
You know, it's not like he's been unsupportive in other areas of my life. I remember when ___________________ and he was great! "

Anyway, you get the drift. The point I'm making is to change how YOU feel all by your lil' ole' Self. To reach for a higher and happier thought. Maybe not the highest you've ever felt toward your SO, just something a little higher than the feeling you want to bite his head off.

This works! It's worked for me in other areas of my life. It's about allowing and loving another person to be who they are, right where they are, while honoring your own choices.

oh yay! that's it PRECISELY. thank you, starborne... i was struggling to find the right tone/kind of advice to offer someone in this situation, and you just helped me find it.

change your thoughts and you'll change your world!

[StarFire]

In this part of my journey, I see how the universal principle of the Law of Attraction made my thinking continue as one thought attracted another critical thought -- until I started deliberately choosing thoughts that were uplifting, positive, loving, and and appreciative about myself and others. I acknowledge where I am, and then reach for where I want to go. I don't make myself 'wrong' or inadequate for being where I am, nor stop in reaching higher.

At times it can still be difficult. At times I feel like I'm lying to myself. So I simply back down the thought to something that feels more honest in the moment and then build the momentum from there.

The more I do this, the more my external environment changes while not having to manipulate others to agree with me or make it easier for me. It seems to happen magically on its own.

Whenever I find myself grumbling about how another person is behaving, I stop that line of thinking and start a new script in my head.

The point I'm making is to change how YOU feel all by your lil' ole' Self. To reach for a higher and happier thought. Maybe not the highest you've ever felt toward your SO, just something a little higher than the feeling you want to bite his head off.

This works! It's worked for me in other areas of my life.

It's about allowing and loving another person to be who they are, right where they are, while honoring your own choices.


and again I say... Amen.... beautifully expressed....

the choice is ours and ours alone...

I do understand it is not always an easy road to reach this point in our lives. We all have our 'story'... our obstacles in life... but... once you reach that space and time in your life when you realize - no matter what has been done to you -- and no matter who did it or why... the bottom line is -- the choice is ours and ours alone to stand up and own our power. There is no greater moment in our lives than that very moment. It is when we truly begin to allow our 'true selves to emerge'....

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/FireStar_830/ththliloandstitchhug.gif