vet visits and raw

[freespirit]

Just a little note to all if you dont already know this...

Make sure your vet checks your animal's red blood cell count if you are feeding raw. if the diet isnt complete, it will be extremely low, which of course can cause death. if you arent feeding organic, then this especially important... in the movie Fast Food Nation they say there is feces in the meat. this can cause serious problems with your pet if they continually ingest those toxins. their bodies cannot handle the toxicity of our factory farmed meat in its raw state.

[portiz]

Thank you for the tip! I think I will get this done anyway since their next vet visit isn't for another 6 months.

[SharonC]

Freespirit,

Just curious, where did you get the information regarding low red blood cell count, and do you have pets?

[freespirit]

I do have pets, a great dane, and two cats...and the info is from our vet. She is really supportive of the way we feed our animals and she does test them periodically.

[SharonC]

I do have pets, a great dane, and two cats...and the info is from our vet. She is really supportive of the way we feed our animals and she does test them periodically.

I have a giant breed too - a Newfoundland!! And, a little 16 year old yorkie who has been eating raw for 10 years! I totally agree about avoiding mass produced meat for many reasons.

Was questioning what you posted because I know thousands of people who feed raw from natural rearing dogs lists (some feed organic and naturally raised grass fed, but many do not), including breeders who have been feeding this way for many years - several generations and have never heard of this. My Newfoundland is 3rd generation naturally reared, raw fed, and my breeder's vets all know she feeds raw and have never mentioned this. I have several vets that I use for their services when needed who recommend raw and feed the same to their pets who have also never mentioned this.

It also seems strange that this would be an issue feeding raw and not an issue with the awful chemical laden, processed 'food' stuff that so many people feed to their pets.

I would need more information than just my vet said it to believe that this is true. I am highly suspicious of what most vets (or doctors) say and always do the research myself before accepting as fact.

Dr. Jean Dodds (an expert in this field) has said for many years that pets who are fed raw will commonly differ from the test lab's generic broad reference range (based on commercially fed pet food), but not in the unusual way that your vet suggested - actually the opposite, a higher red blood cell count. The study copied below by Antech Diagnostics also came to this conclusion. It could possibly be that your vet has limited experience with raw fed animals and has only seen a few who are not fed properly (possibly chicken only - no variety) or just a fluke that she knew of a raw fed animal who had this problem (for whatever reason) and assumed it to be from feeding raw. Did she have an explanation?

I do not get blood work for myself or for my dogs unless I feel it is necessary. But, that's just my personal choice. I have felt the necessity in the past and learned the hard way that I needed to be able to read and understand blood work for myself.

Blood work explained - http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/BLOOD-TEST-EXPLAINED.HTM
Diets Do Matter:
" ... dogs fed raw meats (natural carnivores) have higher red blood cell and blood urea nitrogen levels than dogs fed cereal-based food (obligate omnivores). Thus, the normal reference values for dogs fed raw food diets should probably be revised."

Raw Food Diet Study
Antech Diagnostics recently determined the basic clinical laboratory parameters of 227 healthy adult dogs of varying ages and breed types being fed raw food diets for at least 9 months. From this group, 87 dogs were fed the classical BARF diet, 46 dogs were fed VolhardÕs NDF diet, and the remaining 94 dogs were fed other types of custom or commercial raw diets.

There were 69 dog breeds represented, including 233 purebreds, 16 crossbreds, 1 mixed breed and 6 of unknown breed type. Dogs from all breed groups were represented. Most of the dogs were neutered males (73) or spayed females (85); and the remainder was divided equally between intact males and females. The mean age of the group was 5.67 ± 3.52 years (mean ± SD); and the mean length of time fed a raw food diet was 2.84 ± 2.54 years. The data from this group of dogs were compared to the same laboratory parameters measured at Antech Diagnostics from 75 healthy adult dogs fed a commercial cereal-based kibbled diet. Statistical comparisons of results for the raw and cereal-based diets found them to be essentially the same with the following notable exceptions:

Higher packed cell volume (hematocrit) in all raw diet fed groups (range of 51.0 ± 6.6–53.5 ± 5.6 %) versus cereal-based kibble (47.6 ± 6.1%).
Higher blood urea nitrogen (BUN) in all raw diet fed groups (range of 18.8 ± 6.9–22.0 ± 8.7 mg/dL) versus cereal-based kibble (15.5 ± 4.7 mg/dL).
Higher serum creatinine in the Volhard raw diet group only (1.20 ± 0.34 mg/dL) versus cereal-based kibble (1.07 ± 0.28 mg/dL).

While a more detailed analysis has yet to be completed, these results indicate that dogs fed raw meats (natural carnivores) have higher red blood cell and blood urea nitrogen levels than dogs fed cereal-based food (obligate omnivores). Thus, the normal reference values for dogs fed raw food diets should probably be revised.
References: Wynn S G, Bartges J, Dodds W J. AAVN Nutrition Research Symposium, June 2003 (abstr.); Roudebush P. Adv Sm An Med Surg, 15(9): 1-3, 2002; Dodds W J. In: Complementary and Alternative Veterinary Medicine. Mosby, St. Louis, 1997; pp 73-79; Berry M J, Larsen P R. End Rev, 13(2): 207-219, 1992.
http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/clients/antechNews/2003/jun03_02.htm


Dr. Dodds also takes into account many other factors when interpreting blood work....

"The main reason for sending Dr. Jean Dodds / HEMOPET the blood samples instead of having the testing done locally, is that HEMOPET is the only group routinely offering expert clinical interpretive diagnostic comments that take into account the age, sex, and breed type of the animal. This often means an expected normal reference range for an individual pet that differs from the test lab's generic broad reference range. Practitioners usually are unaware of these differences, which have been established by published research and Dr. Dodds' many years (43 years this year- 2007) of clinical and research experience." http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/HEMOPET.HTM

Dr. Dodds also started the Rabies Challenge Fund to finally do an official study on a longer rabies shot duration (which to this date, has only been studied for a 3 year duration, hence the 3 year requirement for the shot - before that only studied for a 1 year duration). She is starting with 5 years and hoping to take it to 7 years. It is most likely good for life, but it will be difficult to raise the money for such a long study, and the companies who make vaccinations will not spend one penny to prove that the shot is only necessary once in a lifetime for immunity, no matter how much damage is done by giving these harmful shots over and over again - http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/RABIES-CHALLENGE-FUND.HTM

[portiz]

Dr. Dodds also started the Rabies Challenge Fund to finally do an official study on a longer rabies shot duration (which to this date, has only been studied for a 3 year duration, hence the 3 year requirement for the shot - before that only studied for a 1 year duration). She is starting with 5 years and hoping to take it to 7 years. It is most likely good for life, but it will be difficult to raise the money for such a long study, and the companies who make vaccinations will not spend one penny to prove that the shot is only necessary once in a lifetime for immunity, no matter how much damage is done by giving these harmful shots over and over again - http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/RABIES-CHALLENGE-FUND.HTM

:mad: :mad: :mad: