Thesis on Raw Foods...hmmm...

[joyfulGIRL]

As you can see, I am a newbie seedling. Hello!

Strange question...I am in the midst of determining my graduate thesis topic and am seriously considering a topic based on raw vegan vs. cooked and the health benefits, etc.

What do you think? I actually have already uncovered a few journal articles on various aspects of raw, surprisingly. "Green for Life" had a nice list of sources, too.

Anybody complete a project on a raw vegan topic?

Anyone have any burning questions about raw that would make a good research topic?

The only reservation I have is that it is a very personal topic for me, as it is for all of you, too! On the other hand, promotion on the lifestyle will continue to be an important issue for the health of all...

I look forward to hearing your feedback...

Lots of green smoothie energy flowing!

[D'vorah]

Anyone have any burning questions about raw that would make a good research topic?



So far, what I've read compares raw to varying degrees of SAD cooked. I would love to see some comparative studies on raw as compared to healthy low-fat vegan diet, something along the lines of what Dr. john McDougall advises.

There are so many dietary factors, and what I read either takes an all-encompassing view or a micro-managed view with little in-between.

Just my rambling thoughts,

Deborah

PS, welcome to the forum!

[joyfulGIRL]

Exactly.

It has been a challenge to wrap my head around a legitimate research question.

Your suggestiong of raw vs. low fat vegan is great. thanks!

I 'should' be working on it right now, but I am here posting. Ha ha! I'm working, sort of.

[Blazin'Jane]

What is your field? Nutrition?

[joyfulGIRL]

I'm in health education and loving it. My undergrad is in biochemistry, so I have this insanely analytical mind. ha ha.

[Lindazkewl]

I don't know how much this will help, but here's some great food for thought on the topic of raw/living food.

http://rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=30917

[D'vorah]

I'm in health education and loving it. My undergrad is in biochemistry, so I have this insanely analytical mind. ha ha.

I have a friend who might want to chat with you. I'll email her and ask her permission to send you her email addy.

Deborah

[joyfulGIRL]

Thanks for all the suggestions..keep ‘em coming! :D

[joyfulGIRL]

A lot of the resources I have to this point deal with raw vegetables and cancer, so not raw veganism per-se. Definitely lots of cancer articles in the mix, but nothing that explains the raw food diet as treatment. A lot of the others are more vegan focused (i.e. typical B12, calcium worries; menstrual cycles cessation; low bone mass, etc.) Of course that’s not the direction I want to go!

[rawsurfer]

have you read the china study? i think that would be a good place to start

[joyfulGIRL]

Yes, I have read the China Study. I will have to pull that out. Thanks for the reminder, rawsurfer.

[D'vorah]

but nothing that explains the raw food diet as treatment

Sometimes it's merely a matter of perspective, the vantage point from which we consider an issue or idea.

Is raw food (or any other food) the treatment? The "cure"? Or is it merely a matter of removing the cause?

Food for thought.

If your email is enabled, I'll send you my friend's addy.

Deborah

[StarFire]

Anyone have any burning questions about raw that would make a good research topic?



Yea.... Where do you get your protein from ??? http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/FireStar_830/laugh.gif

Okay... sorry - sorry... I couldn't help throw the 'dreaded protein' question out there!!

BUT ON A SERIOUS NOTE... I think its fabulous that you are doing this! Its quite exciting, plus just think of how much youre going to learn thru all this!! http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/FireStar_830/author.gif

I don't know if you could turn it into a topic for a thesis or not - but... one thing that always amazes me is when someone your age embarkes on this lifestyle. I love that - its so incredible to me. Imagine when you get to be my age - 51 - how your health will be, your strength, the clarity of your mind... all that - its sooo cool to be given the chance to claim health now -- before major damage is done to your body thru stupid living (ie., drinking, smoking, horrible foods causing cancer and Lord knows what else... )

with the world in the condition that it is in... pollution etc.. You are giving yourself a fighting chance by living this lifestyle and we need all the help we can get, cuz we don't know what we are fighting off with pesticides, pollution, crap in our water...

It would be fun if you could post your thesis so we can read it when you are done!!

Good luck!!

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/FireStar_830/c20ch4.gif

[luckitri]

I really like the question D'vorah posted - is raw food the cure or merely the removal of the cause?

In my case I am concerned about corrective nutrition and do not really know if I need to add to a raw diet with supplements or other things. Unfortunately even some of the support in healing that I am leaning on are not raw and this sometimes affects my percentage of raw in trying to comply with their advisement as well.

[D'vorah]

I really like the question D'vorah posted - is raw food the cure or merely the removal of the cause?

In my case I am concerned about corrective nutrition and do not really know if I need to add to a raw diet with supplements or other things. Unfortunately even some of the support in healing that I am leaning on are not raw and this sometimes affects my percentage of raw in trying to comply with their advisement as well.


That's exactly what generated my question. This is Alissa's board, so I won't go into lengthy discussions of other disciplines, but there are a lot of folks getting free of a lot of disease via Dr. McDougall's cooked low-fat vegan approach too. For me, I'm just increasingly drawn to raw, which is why I'm here, and more simple raw, which Alissa talks about as a progression as we explore and experience the wonders of raw.

I have rosacea, and am recently self-diagnosing Raynaoud's, particularly in my feet, a quite pronounced case, and living in Alaska, it's already problematic as winter approaches.

Two questions I consider as I read about health and nutrition, one is that of acidity of diet, not acidity of foods themselves, but how they function in the body as it processes. Example, oranges and lemons are very acidic, but they don't produce acidity in the body, the produce the opposite. It can get confusing. A lot has been writtin about that, but I think a lot of what has been written is speculative and not based on good science. A fellow over on the McDougall board, Burgess Laughlin, has adapted his diet to adjust for that factor and has found a measuring tool for that which I do trust, and raw as per Alissa's books and DVD's makes that so completely do-able. As I look down the list of foods on the chart, which I have if anyone is interested, the foods that are non-acid producing in the body are wonderful raw foods! The majority of most offending acid producing foods have to be cooked to be eaten, so, we're in good standing here on the raw diet!

The other question in health supporting diet is the issue of leaky gut. I'm more suspicious of leaky gut in my health problems, both of which are immune system related. What is not clear to me is what is the primary culprit in leaky gut. For a long time I only saw meat, eggs and dairy - animal products - as suspect in the literature, but increasinly I'm seeing grains, particularly gluten grains implicated in various writings. I assume sprouted grains would fall into a different category and not be problematic.

So, is it that my body is acidified via dietary lapses, or do I have leaky gut from years of Standard American Diet, or is it a combination of both? Either way, I can conquor those things via low-fat vegan cooked diet or via raw.

My big detractor is food cravings that cause me to periodically cave. My face (rosacia) is my current barometer of my success or lack there-of.

I keep coming back here because I just believe that raw will give me an added boost in viable nutrition that isn't available via cooked foods.

A lot to consider.

Deborah

[joyfulGIRL]

Wow, thanks again for all the great input.

Ah, the glorious protein question. Haha, thanks for that. :) Through the course of this project I am sure I will hear that question from at least one of my colleagues. It's certainly interesting to listen to their differing health and nutrition perspectives.

Regarding the whole treatment vs. removal of the cause, I was thinking that medicine treats the symptoms (as we all know) and that most health/wellness/nutrition education and promotion programs teach eating fruit and veggies to STAY healthy or to reduce the RISK of a certain disease. Seldom do we hear health professionals suggest a radical change in diet as a solution or treatment...but yes, 80% of disease (or probably more) can be attributed to diet and lifestyle.

We know that the health status of SAD consumers has reached an all time low. Is it more realistic, as a health educator, to teach a whole food agenda including both cooked and uncooked foods versus a diet that is seen as extreme to most SAD consumers? Are we more likely to see improvements if we don't use such an "all or nothing" approach. True, those of us on RFT know that the raw vegan diet is in no way extreme, but how do we create a shift in the thinking of the average SAD consumer to recognize that it's the SAD that is extreme!?

A family friend is struggling with high blood pressure. I told him that we could treat it with raw foods. he was open to the suggestion (I felt like he was just humoring me because of my enthusiasm) and integrated more raw foods into the diet, but nowhere close to all raw. He's staying on the blood pressure pills because he sees it as the only solution, and much "easier" than embarking on an all raw diet. He maintains that he needs enough protein for "energy" and that raw foods "don't taste good". You see, how do we change that thinking? Maybe it's not as much of a SAD vs. raw nutrition issue as it is a psychological one.

Ah, I don't know. Sometimes it feels like such an uphill battle.

[D'vorah]

Is it more realistic, as a health educator, to teach a whole food agenda including both cooked and uncooked foods versus a diet that is seen as extreme to most SAD consumers? Are we more likely to see improvements if we don't use such an "all or nothing" approach.



Sadly, even low-fat cooked vegan is received as an extreme and fringe in this SAD society. It's just as hard to sell that concept, really, even though raw is more unheard of. And down in the south, where I'm from, you'd think the accessibility of land for growing healthy food and the long summers, etc, would in and of itself foster greater awareness, but it's harder to eat healthy down there than it is here in Alaska, due to the regional love of fat, grease and fried stuff. I've been at my Dad's house and watched him put beautiful green beans in a pot of water on the stove and had to dive in just before HUGE cubes of fat were tossed in prior to cooking. He can't fathom how I can eat them without being cooked beyond recognition, with gobs of fat floating in them. His way, they no longer even resemble food to me.

When my dad was in the hospital in Tampa, one known for it's cardiac and vascular programs, none of the health professionals there even MENTIONED diet, while he was having 12 inches of leg artery bypassed!! It was simply never talked about. Most of the health providers were overweight, some horrifyingly obese, including his arrogant surgeon. Food was never talked about, and don't even get me started on what they were feeding him while he was in bed, or what was available for guests. It was unbelievable.

I would love it if my father would go raw, but frankly, I'd be happy if he would accept the low-fat cooked version via McDougall, it would he head and shoulders above what he's eating now. It might have saved my mother's life. He's going blind from macular degeneration, and I've talked until I'm blue in the face about how it's preventable, but because it didn't come from his doctors, it's all nothing. He's also still driving.

People get set in their ways and some people are just so stubborn that they are willing to live with the fallout, all while denying that SAD has anything to do with it. I have a friend on chemo. Yes, she's heard some of what I have said and is incorporating more raw foods and some smoothies into her diet, but she also sneaks other stuff that I know isn't helping her heal. And I'm the last one on the planet to be preaching, because I've been on and off raw for three years, cravings pull me away from time to time. So, is it all or nothing, all black and white? Or is it a matter of increasing degrees? I envy the people who say they are going raw and then just do, just like that. For me, it's been a longer process of degrees. So, on that note, upstairs I go to make another green smoothie . . .

These are the reasons I reallly want to support your desire to do a thesis on health and diet.

Deborah

[luckitri]

Joyful Girl,

I hope that you are aware that many see this as a conspiracy between Big Pharma and food companies and the government? Some even link it to plans to control the population and kill off a large portion of people. Also the Codex Alimentarius which will soon be implemented. I am trying to think of where I could direct you so that you could see that part of it.

Re the above comments. Yes, the other day my husband told me he enjoys the food he has eaten all his life and at his age he does not want to change - he just wants to enjoy it.

[joyfulGIRL]

Hi luckitri-

Yep, I most definately aware of and agree with that conspiracy theory. It's funny to watch the rolling eyes and crazy looks when I mention something like this in class. Granted some people would agree, but most of them think I am an overreacting paranoid person. In general people are way too trusting that the system will look out for their best interests. Quite the opposite, I say. In a setting like academia, there's so much focus on the "literature" that I think common sense sometimes loses out.

And about your husband - mine is the same way. He insists that he is "superman" and nothing is going to happen to him, blah blah. He says I spend too much time worrying and why not enjoy life more instead of be so critical all the time. But he does support my opinions, etc. It's such a matter of personal motivation and that worries me for the majority of the population. That's why it's imperative to get the raw message out there loud and strong!

[D'vorah]

I'm not convinced of a conspiracy, but I do know it comes down to the almighty dollar, AND in my father's example, I suspect it more is that people are so happy with their own lifestyle. If they tell patients that they need to drop food categories, lose weight, exercise, etc., then they have to also be willing to live by example.

Denial is a powerful thing. One "nurse" in that hospital HAD to be over 300 lbs. How could she possibly advocate diet and exercise to her patients?

Deborah

[RawkStar]

My husband works in pharmaceuticals and my father is a cardiologist. Both very much support a raw food diet. I understand many of you are not directly involved in the medical community, so it is very easy for you to make assumptions on how things actually work. But, there are physicians and nurses on this board so it would be wise not to make such blanket assumptions on how the industry views nutrition.

It is very easy to blame the nurses, doctors, and other medical personnel. Why? Because you, as the patient, no longer have responsibility for your health. Do you know why many physicians do not preach nutrition? Because the patients don't want to hear it and want a quick fix. My father says that every now and then, maybe a handful of times per year, he will come across a patient who seems genuinely willing to assume responsibility for their health and modify their lifestyle. On those patients he hammers home the importance of diet and lifestyle.

The others? There is no point. These are the ones who will never be compliant on a nutrition based program. These are the ones who walk into your office with a simple runny nose and demand an antibiotic because "By God I didn't pay no G** DA** $10 co-pay to walk outta here empty-handed" (true-story, and by more than one patient). Try to explain that a virus does not respond to an antibiotic? See above quote, only with more expletives. And with our litigious society, you really do feel backed into a corner. Patients walk in demanding the best medication and treatment (yesterday) and if you dare put the responsibility in their lap by suggesting a change in diet is in order? Good luck. You'll be hearing from their insurance's quality assurance department by the end of the day.

You think you are disheartened by physicians and nurses? Try being a physician or nurse or work in the medical industry--you become disheartened by people, in general.

[RawkStar]

And another thing to remember: doctors, nurses, and other medical personnel are human and subject to the same vices as the rest of us. We can't expect them to be perfect.

Also, we are not privy to their medical history. Who knows why that nurse was 300+ pounds? Victoria Boutenko is hardly a waif (many estimate she weighs in the early-mid 200s), and yet because she espouses raw food and green smoothies we justify the fact that she is moderately overweight and essentially call it a benign anomaly. This, to me, seems unfair and hypocritical.

Food is an addiction, and I don't think we would be so disdainful of someone with an addiction to drugs or alcohol.

[D'vorah]

Rawkstar, I see that I hit a nerve with you. Please hear my heart, no offense was intended. I AM directly involved in the medical community, my husband is a surgeon, I am a currently non-practicing (stay-at-home-mom) Occupational Therapist. And yes, food is an addiction, I have my own serious struggles there-in.

I'm not judging the nurse I mentioned, she was't the only one, I'm just expressing my frustration that not ONCE during my father's hospitalization or rehab was diet even mentioned, and during the hospital stay AND rehab facility stay he was fed high fat SAD meals following vascular surgery. He's going blind and no one, not one doctor will bring up the issue.

Blaming the patient hits a nerve with me, just as I hit one with you. It is not, nor ever will be, my father's fault that no one brought it up. Blaming the patients is never acceptable for failure on the part of the medical community.

I am trying to run two homes, mine in Alaska and my father's in Florida, and it is all complicated by a medical community that fails to speak truth and a very messed up Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles that has helped my father remain behind the wheel while going blind.

I mean you no ill will, just as I'm sure you mean none to me, it's just a tough subject all the way around, sometimes.

I hope that this dialogue is helpful to the original purpose of this thread, that of creating a thesis. All good points to consider and much food for thought.

Deborah

[RawkStar]

Hi Deborah.

My post actually wasn't directed to you, but I appreciate your polite response. This subject is a somewhat touchy one for me, only because I see so often patients drop the responsibility for their own health on a multitude of health care providers. It gets to the point where enough is enough! I want to scream at them: Grow up and stop looking to pills and potions to cure everything!! Take my FIL, for instance. I can't even keep track of all the pills he is on. Glucophage is the latest, since he is prediabetic. He told the doctor: Give me a pill and don't tell me to change my diet 'cause I won't do it. And he recounted this story to my husband with pride, as if he really told them something! My husband told him about raw foods and the incredible success stories with diabetes, let alone pre-diabetes (!) and he just didn't care.

I don't believe that in this day and age a doctor needs to tell you eating "X" is not good for you. We all know eating crap begets crap. The fact that your doctor doesn't address nutrition is a convenient excuse to continue with irresponsible behavior. I mean no disrespect to your father, but with a daughter who is an occupational therapist and a son-in-law who is a surgeon, your thoughts and opinions on health should hold some value. Do you believe that if any of the doctors mentioned nutrition to your father he would change his eating habits? Just with my experience with many patients over the years and with my own FIL, I would venture to say no. My apologies if I have mischaracterized your father.

I don't know if this is something common only to So-Cal, but in any case here, in my area, patients are loathe to change their lifestyle for the benefit of health alone. Now, to go on a diet to improve one's physical appearance is fine. But for health? Not likely, at least not where I live. Last week my father cathed a 47 year old. Today, a 37 year old! The response to the stress management/diet lecture? Don't have time. Can't do it. It's expensive to eat healthy. Family won't do it. Blah, blah, blah.

By the way, I am surprised at your comment regarding the food during your father's hospital stay. During both my hospital stays (c-sections) I received typical heart-healthy fare. I also received literature on nutrition and making healthy choices and avoiding trans fats, high fructose corn syrup, refined foods, etc. And I didn't go to a fancy medical center. It's actually a total dump, and the only reason I go there is because my favorite OBGYN has privileges there and no where else.

As far as a thesis topic goes perhaps you can address the woefully inadequate nutrition classes physicians received in medical school? For example, if a physician/nurse/medical personnel receives a nutrition class on the use of diet to heal diseases are they more likely to espouse the benefits of a healthy diet to their patients?

Another suggestion would be to associate yourself with an area physician and ask that 50% of all newly diagnosed patients with X (insert disease here--diabetes, heart disease, arthritis, etc.) attend weekly raw nutrition classes. Include food sampling, hands on cooking instruction, etc. The other 50% is your blind. See if the group receiving instruction are more likely to modify their diet and lifestyle.

[dalimeindacoconut]

Excellent idea. Go for it!

[D'vorah]

RawkStar, I think we're more in agreement than not. :)

One thing, where you said, "I don't believe that in this day and age a doctor needs to tell you eating "X" is not good for you." You are so right, there is a ton of information available now, and as near as the next google, and increasingly people are taking ownership of the process, and for most of us, I so agree with your sentiment, but not regarding my father, not my mother, who passed away from lifestyle related disorders four years ago.

If you had said that a doctor "shouldn't need" to tell you that eating "X" is not good for you, I would have completely agreed.

The thing is, with my father's generation (he's about to turn 85), doctors still retain a certain mythical god-like-ness in their eyes. Yes, if his doctor told him to stop eating meat, I'm sure he would have. See, for YEARS he and mom both avoided seeds and nuts like the plague because their doctor had told them that was how to treat diverticulitis. I watched them carefully de-seed their tomatoes, watched dad grieve for his beloved strawberries, I watched them pass up good old Southern pecans, and so on, faithfully until this year when his doctor said that is no longer the standard for treating diverticulitis and told him to eat anything he wanted to eat. I think the first thing he did after that was eat strawberries.

I watched them not eat strawberries while eating a high-fat, meat-based, low-fiber diet and it almost drove me mad. He's an intellegent man, he's a chemical engineer. I brought diet up during his hospitalization and wasn't heard by him or the hospital staff. Nothing I could say would make a difference. Before mom's death, years ago I bought them copies of Dr. McDougall's books, more recently a copy of his last set of DVD's, I tried preparing various healthy recipes for them, which they turned up their noses at. I suggested toast without the butter, I suggested that vegetables COULD be eaten without pig-fat added to them, I told them that adding cheese and heavy dressings to salads was not the best way to go, I suggested restaurants that didn't make meat and dairy a part of every single dish, all to no avail. No, the word of family in the medical field could never, in their minds, trump the word of their own physician, and other than the nut/seed thing, his doctors have remained mum on the issue of diet. And now, at his age, I'm sure their thinking is, eh, he's old, what else does he have to enjoy? Let him have his eggs and bacon. While he slowly goes blind! And you don't even want to know the language that slips into my thinking in response to all of this. I made serious attempts to talk Dad into moving in with us, but Alaska might as well be the surface of the moon to that good ole Alabama boy. (Funny note, I asked him why he left Alabama, it's so beautiful where he's from. His answer? A curt "It's too cold!" Yeah, I'm going to get him to move to Alaska! :rolleyes: )

So, yes, in theory, I'm in agreement with your sentiments, but, I'm a veteran in this battle. I've also seen too many doctors who hunt, eat meat, are overweight, look unhealthy, exercise little. . . . . and I've watched my family suffer for lack of an authoritarian role model, which, sadly, is what they needed. Maybe next post I'll tell you about how horrible my mother's death was. No, maybe that isn't necesary or helpful.

But, as I said, in theory, I agree with you.

Now, out of all of this, I hope we get a doozie of a thesis!!! :D

Blessings,

Deborah

[D'vorah]

PS, I'm sorry about your FIL, and I do agree, patients are wrong to shift the responsibility to their health care providers. I'd so much rather folks ate properly and were free of all of the meds.

D

[luckitri]

My parental preferences have been taken away from me by a combination of factors including that for most of his life I have worked evenings - but my son quickly learned from media, daycare, other children and then school to eat differently than how I wanted to feed him. The peer pressure seems to only work in a negative way with him. If a kid says yuck to what I am making - then it will be forever yuck to my son. But even when I can get all the kids on the street to drink a smoothie and say it is good my son rebels against it now. I am really sad about it but he is just going to have to realize on his own now because he now insists that I have to tell him what I am making for dinner because if he doesn't like it - well there are friends families that will feed him the SAD food that he wants. So even if I get my husband converted for his health we still have to prepare that food for our son.

This evening at dinner he told me that there are some vegetarian kids at school. Their parents all work for the school. They are all unhealthy and flabby. He never sees them outside playing. They join student council and sit in alot of meetings but can't do sports. That may be true but it is also the typical SAD picture of vegetarians and vegans I think.

[RawkStar]

Deborah,

We are very much on the same page! I agree with you 100% :)

85 years old is a different ball of wax. That is a very authoritarian generation, and I can see why he would revere whatever a doctor told him. My FIL is a good 20 years younger, and does know better. I won't even give him the benefit of should. He does know better and refuses to take responsibility. I think his conduct is shameful and selfish. Do people like him realize their conduct affects those around them as well? I'm sure my husband would like to have his father around as long as possible.

I wish you the best in taking care of your father. From first hand experience I know it is very difficult and emotionally draining.

[luckitri]

Driving around today I saw a fast food place titled "Heart Attack Grill"!

I was shocked but then I don't get out much - maybe it is a chain nationwide?