Osteoporosis

[styersky]

As we age many are concerned about osteoporosis. And whether to take fosomax or try to deal with osteoporosis nutritionally.

I have been diagnosed osteoporosis in the past year. I hope to learn that there is hope to reverse the osteoporosis with diet and exercise. What do you think?

[styersky]

http://drklaper.com/answers05.html

This is an article regarding osteoporosis.

[alicemagooey]

Thank you for this article..

i found it really helpful..

i have been looking into this..and was wondering about excercise.

dr klaper said


To keep your bones healthy and to prevent osteoporosis, the most important thing you can do is to stay as physically active as you can throughout your life. Since calcium is always being laid down in the skeleton, it is never to late to begin to strengthen the bones. Medical studies by Dr. Aloia and others have shown that, even in elderly people, osteoporotic bones can be made stronger by gentle but steady exercise, like walking up stairs or squeezing rubber balls.3 Such is the power of using our muscles - it actually helps pull calcium into the bones and keep it there, keeping our skeleton strong.

Any exercise that places a mild, repeated stress on the bones, causes the bones to become thicker, stronger, and more calcified. Never miss a chance to walk up stairs or to carry packages. Never stop walking - try to take a brisk, 30 to 60-minute walk at least every other day - and more frequently is even better.

Although exercises against gravity are especially potent in helping bones stay strong, muscle contraction of any kind will help generate electrical currents that help pull calcium into the bones. Elastic, stretchable bands that can be used in resistance training, even while a person is sitting, are also excellent tools to provide muscular exercise that will help keep bones strong.

THAT ANSWERED SOME OF THE QUESTIONS I HAVE BEEN POSTING HERE AT THIS FORUM.. I WAS WONDERING ABOUT WHICH ARE THE BEST EXCERCISES TO KEEP THE 'O' at bay..

thanks
alice

[sport]

[QUOTE=styersky;322737] And whether to take fosomax or try to deal with osteoporosis nutritionally.
QUOTE]

There is a lot of bad info on fosomax out there so I would avoid it.

[styersky]

Ok, Sport. I hear you that you would stay off. I am really new at Raw and all of this. If you were in the situation with fosomax, tell me what you would do . . . food, exercise, etc. I really need encouragement and information.

I am now learning about acid and alkaline, testing, etc., and doing pretty good at staying around 7. I walk at least 30 minutes at least 5 days a week.

I need information and encouragement ! ! !

[alicemagooey]

styersky,,, i am not the one to offer help in this case, as i am after the same things as you are..

i am about to order a book..i hesitate to mention it.,as i have not yet ordered it..but it looks really good.. i suppose i could give you a report after i read it..

the title of the book is "Senior fitness."

The author is a raw vegan lady who is 74 i believe, and who has run some marathons and things, and did much of the fitness and diet changes late in life, after having been diagnosed with cancer..

So it sounds like she has been through many medical issues..And it seems that she is stil fit as a fiddle. So i imagine there are some real nuggets to be learned from what she has to say.

I did a Google about the lady.. all i can remember is that her name is Ruth. and some people call her, chuckling, the Dr Ruth of Hawaii.
so you could google Dr Ruth of Hawaii, like i did..

Sorry, i do not have all the info at my fingertips for this post, but thought you may be interested.

cheerio
alice

[JenniferMooreFuller]

Styersky, Yoga is supposed to be a good weight bearing exercise system that works gently on all parts of the body and helps the bones. I've seen some new books lately on yoga for bone health at the library and bookstores, but haven't read or bought any. Might be worth some research as yoga feels so good and is fun!

Jennifer

[styersky]

Styersky, Yoga is supposed to be a good weight bearing exercise system that works gently on all parts of the body and helps the bones. I've seen some new books lately on yoga for bone health at the library and bookstores, but haven't read or bought any. Might be worth some research as yoga feels so good and is fun!

Jennifer

I have been thinking about Yoga, especially now since I seem to have a torn cartilage problem and wondering about continuing the walking. I think I will get a trampoline because of that.

Can you tell me a good beginner's Yoga DVD or video?


Alice, please let me know what you think about the book when you receive it. I really want to do everything I can do.

Actually, I have stopped taking the Fosomax so really have to try everything I can to be sure I am building bone.

Thank all of you so much for hanging in here with me!

[JenniferMooreFuller]

I have used a yoga program book by Richard Hittleman for years. He is well known and the books and illustrations are easy to follow. Also a lot of additional information on the benefits of yoga and each particular posture. A friend is working with a beginner's yoga dvd - will check on that.

Jennifer

[alicemagooey]

I USED to do yoga many years ago.. Something called Iyengar Yoga.. It tells also which poses are good for which things ( like helps digestion, etc)

i used to be really flexible but ..

was thinking also of trying to remember some of the old things i used to do..i have lost about 80 percent of my limber ness.

ugh..

well, i have read in some parts of this forum that going RAW helps with flexibility, so i guess we are all guinea pigs..

I have looked around in the shops and things .. saw even some videos
entitled: "Yoga for seniors.."
would that address our particular issues better?
Or Pilates for Seniors..( pilates is similar to yoga, i am finding)
i am pretty sure such like teaching series would cover posture and spinal health
which we need, as well as bone health..

just a thought

All i know is that Iyengar Yoga Method was really really really good and covered everything.

lots to learn.. so little time.
thanks to all for support and help
alice

[sport]

Ok, Sport. I hear you that you would stay off. I am really new at Raw and all of this. If you were in the situation with fosomax, tell me what you would do . . . food, exercise, etc. I really need encouragement and information.

I am now learning about acid and alkaline, testing, etc., and doing pretty good at staying around 7. I walk at least 30 minutes at least 5 days a week.

I need information and encouragement ! ! !

I probably am in your situation. I am 55 and have been vegan for 6 years. I had a bone density check done about 8 years ago but not since then.
One of my sisters began to take fosomax about 2 years ago and I talked her out of it. I noticed an ad running on tv in Florida recently looking for people to join a class action suit against fosomax so I am glad that I had the knowledge at the time to talk her out of using it.
There may be info in some of these links.
Shortcut to: http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=best+exercise+to+build+bone&meta
Do you do any rebounding. These links will tell you how good it is and you can do it while watching the tv
Shortcut to: http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=best+exercise+to+build+bone+rebounder&meta=

[alicemagooey]

Please,
everyone..

TELL ME if you think i am nothing but a big blabbermouth.. because sometimes i feel like i am one.
I will shut up if you want me to..
honest..
sometimes i just feel like i should say something..especially as we become friends..more on the group..
MY QUESTION
Styersky..( and anyone else with osteoporosis who is looking to help the body help itself)
1. did you ever find a nutrtition oriented doctor???
Anywhere somewhat near you or perhaps one recommended to you who lives at a distance.??

**I think phosamax is not good , also..** the reports are not that good on it, and it does not even build bone as is advertised..but that is a whole other deal..
**BUT the fact remains that,especially as you have been tested and found to have ostoeporosis, that you have suffered some bone loss.

I am not one of those people at this forum who say that we raw vegans simply do not need supplements.!! Quite the opposite.
I think over time, our digestive systems may not be as good as they once were, even to extract essential vitamins and minerals that we need from the foods to eat.. and that would be if the foods themselves were garden of eden variety..

I think we ought to be taking some supplements.
(please, don't shoot.. i will leave quietly if you don't like what i have to say)

preferably vegan supplements.
I know i do..
and a nutrition oriented doctor might be able to help you.
I know 1500 mg of calcium is recommended, and that it is not that easy for the body to even assimilate the calcium in the chalky vitamins they give us..but it is all we have, unless we shart chewing on some bones.
(hopefully not our own.)

jjust some things. I do not want to see any of us getting sick.
we gotta do WELL on this raw vegan thing.
alice

[alicemagooey]

more blab here.

i just went to the website of the International Vegan society in England..

they say this about calcium and supplements:

( we need to be balanced in what we read, and we need to read as much as we can..)(this is only one point of view)but a good one to think about..


Calcium is a very good thing, but increasing calcium intake from 500 mg per day to 1500 mg per day by taking supplements will add less than 90 mg per day to the calcium retained by most adults, and less than 50 mg per day for the 10 per cent with the lowest calcium absorption, who
are at particular risk of osteoporosis...

so i guess that this means that if we do take supplements, that not as much will be absorbed by our bodies as we might think ( i still think that some supplements may be a good idea, though )(personal feeling)
The article goes on:


Other aspects of diet are equally significant: 10 g of SALT per day will SUBTRACT about 70 mg per day from retained calcium by increasing calcium losses in urine

whereas 4000 mg of extra POTASSIUM from a diet rich in vegetables, fruits and other unrefined plant foods will ADD 60 mg per
day to retained calcium by reducing calcium losses.
isn't this good information !!!


RELYING ON CALCIUM ALONE TO PREVENT OSTEOPOROSIS IS LIKE FIELDING A FOOTBALL TEAM WITH ONLY
STRIKERS AND NO DEFENDERS.( caps theirs)


,( comparing dairy products and their inferior absorbability as a source of calcium,)....In contrast, [low oxalate] green leafy vegetables such as kale and spring greens provide plenty of well absorbed calcium while at the same time reducing calcium losses. Calcium supplements lie in between in terms of their effect on retained calcium.

more good news..

the article continues


Retinol added to low fat dairy products in Sweden and the USA is strongly
linked with increased risk of hip fracture, subverting the benefit of
calcium. In terms of bone health, dairy products fortified with retinol
are thus a poisoned offering. In contrast, vitamin K from green leafy
vegetables and broccoli will promote stronger bones, dramatically reducing
fracture risk.
Human use of dairy products is a recent and unnecessary development.
A DIET RICH IN VEGETABLES, FRUITS AND ROOT CROPS AND LOW IN SALT PROVIDES
THE BEST PATH BACK TO HEALTHY BONES.
A comprehensive and up to date review of research on diet and bone health
can be found at:

http://www.vegansociety.com/downloads/dietandbone.pdf

For further information on diet and bone health, contact
Stephen Walsh <stephenwalsh@vegans.fsnet.co.uk>
tel. 07967 361510) or
The Vegan Society <info@vegansociety.com>
tel. 0845 4588244


thought y'all would find that article as interesting as i did.
alice

[styersky]

http://www.vegansociety.com/downloads/dietandbone.pdf

Alice just posted this website . . . and it is so interesting that I just want to call it to your attention again. It is lengthy but very informative. Covers a lot of health issues.

[styersky]

No, Alice, I have not found a nutrition oriented doctor and probably will not in this rural area. When living in Southern Ca. we had so much more health related advantages. But there are also many advantages from living here also.

In another post and in another thread . . . I mentioned that for many years I was totally into nutrition (supplements, etc.) and owned a HFS. I learned while owning the HFS that industry is so full of snake oil. It is difficult for me to make decisions now on supplements. Please do not take this personally. I just have to make my own decisions based on my experiences and personal knowledge and education. RAW is new to me and I am learning as much as I can as fast as I can. Supplements are simply not my priority at the present time. Here at this Forum we can support each other while we each learn and adjust at our own pace. Even if I am not into supplements that does not mean that I do not appreciate your support and sharing of your knowledge.

My priority today is trying to get into some exercises that do not involve my knees. I will be having outpatient surgery next Wednesday for miniscus repair and will not be joining my walking buddies for a while. It was time that I venture out into more and different exercises, so now I will be forced to do so. I am anxious to begin that search and get into something I will enjoy

[alicemagooey]

WOW.. thanks for the lovely response,Styersky..

i am SO SO glad that you noticed and read and pointed out the article which i posted, because i really think it was terrific..

sometimes i think i blab so much that the good information is lost for my blabbing..

Thank you for bringing it to peoples attention.

OH< I AM SO DELIGHTED that you told me about your health food store experience.. I HAD NO IDEA.. that you were involved so , um intimately, with the 'business'..

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT ALL THE 'SNAKE OILS', and 'HYPE' going around the health food industry. AND IT DOES SEEM LIKE MOST PEOPLE 'JUST WANT TO MAKE A BUCK' rather than really wanting to make something which will really help people..!!!
It is really sad..
I personally live a really simple life..and stay away from most of the things promoted with hype..
I think we really DO have the HEALER within us.

But still, until we come IN TOUCH, directly and intimately with that HEALER, we are basically just trying our best, and seeking help from other individuals in similar circumstances...so that is where i am at the moment.

I , like you , just want to do all i can do for my particular circumstance, and if i can be of help to others, then that is good. I do not want people to suffer..because we can sure do a lot of harm to ourselves..I know that from personal experience.

Thank you for being so kind and gentle in your response.!

To your good Health and fulfillment of your desires,Styersky.!
alice

[styersky]

If you are enjoying the Over 50 Forum you might want to thank Alissa for doing this for us. She was so happy to work with us and I really appreciate it as I think you are. This is the email address if you want to thank her:
alissa@alissacohen.com

[okgirl]

Here is a link you might be interested in. I was researching scoliosis (deformity of the back) , which I have had as long as I can remember. The lady on this website goes into her personal experience and researching. She states if you have scoliosis it puts you at a high risk for osteopenia /osteoporosis, because they are related.

http://www.ctds.info/osteopenia.html

I like the over 50's new home. Carol

[alicemagooey]

carol...i could not bring up the link you gave.when i tried it..

i will try it once more..


alice

[Cinnamon]

i am about to order a book..i hesitate to mention it.,as i have not yet ordered it..but it looks really good.. i suppose i could give you a report after i read it..

the title of the book is "Senior fitness."

The author is a raw vegan lady who is 74 i believe, and who has run some marathons and things, and did much of the fitness and diet changes late in life, after having been diagnosed with cancer..

So it sounds like she has been through many medical issues..And it seems that she is stil fit as a fiddle. So i imagine there are some real nuggets to be learned from what she has to say.


I LOVE this book and bought it as soon as it came out. I have Ruth's other books too and have followed her and her story for many years. I've also emailed her and received very helpful responses.

The book is great, I've loaned it to many of my (middle aged) friends and it give a good overview of just what we can do with our bodies as we age to stay fit and trim and really keep right on enjoying our lives the best we can.

Ruth is an amazing woman, still doing marathons and triathlons and she looks great too! She is a raw vegan with the exception of a very few things and has been vegan since she was in her 40's and went through her breast cancer experience.

[Lavendula]

Please,
everyone..

[QUOTE]TELL ME if you think i am nothing but a big blabbermouth.. because sometimes i feel like i am one.
I will shut up if you want me to..
honest..
sometimes i just feel like i should say something..especially as we become friends..more on the group..

I am at home with other " blabbermouths" as I have been I told am giving TMI, but if someone doesn't care to know what I have to say, they don't have to listen. You have shared so much helpful info with the group, touching on many different areas. I'm sure we are all grateful. I have always done heavy work, and gardening, shoveling, digging, etc. I have always loved and eaten greens, and sardines. I have eaten very little dairy products over the last 20 + years, and only started taking cal/ mag supps, about 7 years ago, and not consistently either. I had a dexiscan bone density test in Feb at a HFS and mine was higher than anyone he had seen all day, and a good bit better than my 28 year-old daughter. I also nursed 3 babies exclusively, two til age 2, no bottles. Never had a broken bone, just gardening related joint injuries. But I am only 48.

[styersky]

Guess we must be somewhat of a blabbermouth to be here blabbing. Must be the reason we are here. We enjoy sharing our thoughts and enjoy reading about the thoughts of others.

Alice had mentioned a book "Senior Fitness" which I have ordered and can't wait to read it. I believe it will be motivational for all of us seniors. I recently had outpatient surgery (meniscus repair) on my left knee and am so anxious to get back to some kind of exercise. So I believe this book will be just what I need to get me into a new routine and maybe protect my knees a bit better. Exercise will help with osteoporosis problems I believe.

I finally ordered Alissa's book also and it is great. I had hesitated due to the cost but found a gift certificate from Barnes & Noble which I had forgotten about. It is worth the money.

[SharonC]

Styersky, Glad you are feeling better and on the road to recovery! Hope they treated you well. Sometimes you have to let them know you are the boss!

I am going to order that book for my Mom. Thanks Alice for recommending it!

I agree, Alissa's book is great - well worth it!

[styersky]

Thanks, Sharon . . . yes the surgery and recovery has gone very well. We have a great Orthopedic Surgeon. I am pretty well back to normal now except for some occasional stiffness in the knee. We are so very thankful that I chose to check into the problem so quickly rather than taking the chance of further damage involving cartilage. As we now understand there was no cartilage damage, only meniscus. So future joint damage is not in the picture. I am usually one that wants everything fixed before there is a problem, and this time we are very thankful.

Glad you ordered the book for your Mom. I have heard previously what a good book it is. Will let you know what I think!

[styersky]

I may be interested in a vegan calcium supplement.

Any suggestions?

[nfracer]

I recently had outpatient surgery (meniscus repair) on my left knee and am so anxious to get back to some kind of exercise. So I believe this book will be just what I need to get me into a new routine and maybe protect my knees a bit better. Exercise will help with osteoporosis problems I believe.

I too have osteoporosis at the ripe age of 40! I was diagnosed 2 1/2 years ago. I had surgery 2 days ago to remove a metal plate, rod, and screws from my femur that had "fixed" my broken femoral neck in a fall 1/5/06. It healed quickly but began bothering me this summer. The rod was creating a "halo" around it from the impact of my running. So, 2 days ago, out it came. As far as recovery, just listen to your body. In my experience the doctors have to err on the side of caution when it comes to "doing things"...You should try some stretching and light resistance right now. Do you have the stretch pt bands? Those help. Plus arm weights and ab work are always acceptable right now and will help you recover. Getting the blood flowing to the area of injury helps you to repair and recover so try to get around a little bit. As far as the osteoporosis are you on any type of teatment? I was against it for a few years but did agree to "forteo" which is a daily injection of parathyroid hormone which I was deficient in anyway. It is supposed to rebuild bone density 12-17% in a two year period (which is what I have already lost) I realize many herein don't agree with any type of artificial Rx but the fact of the matter for me was I was strictly raw for 20 months with no improvement (only deterioration!) so I agreed to it and must admit I am feeling better. However, in defense of "raw" I was "turned off" from raw from mid-April until the end of this summer and felt even worse. So, I am re-committed to the raw lifestyle and supplementing with calcium + the daily forteo injections until at least May when my bone density will be re-done.....Good luck with your rehabilitation! We'll hobble along together! Bend that knee!

[SharonC]

This link will take you to the osteoporosis thread where I posted information -
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?p=319145#post319145

Copied the following regarding calcium supplements from my post (link above)...

If feel the need for extra calcium this one is different as it is calcium from whole food herbs and in a highly absorbable form - http://www.startthehealing.com/store/Nutrition.html

Am not familiar with this product or company, but it looks promising - http://www.algaecal.com/why-algaecal.htm Interesting guarantee on this product: http://www.algaecal.com/order.htm

One of the recommendations from my pharmacist friend who works at one of the largest compounding pharmacies in the country. Her job is to help people with natural alternatives to drugs -
*Supplement if needed - how much depends on diet. She recommends, http://www.evitamins.com/product.asp?pid=498. It is actually made from bone. They also have a vegetarian formula http://www.evitamins.com/product.asp?pid=916, but she did not mention it.

This article that I referenced in the past thread has several excellent recommendations for reversing osteoporosis - http://www.drlam.com/opinion/osteoporosis.cfm

It seems to me that reversing osteoporosis quickly would require aggressive measures - several of the recommendations in the article above along with a raw diet that includes lots of green leafy vegetables. Juicing would be even better with much faster results.

Regarding drugs, they are very aggressive in the wrong direction! If following a natural protocol instead of drugs to reverse a disease process, it requires aggressive measures as well (in the right direction)!

If I were reversing osteoporosis, I would seriously consider progesterone. Copied from the Dr. Lam article above...

"There is only one compound that we currently know of that will increase bone strength and density by promoting the growth of osteoblast, and this is natural progesterone. The use of natural progesterone to treat osteoporosis was pioneered by Dr. John Lee, who suggested that osteoporosis in women is due to the decreasing level of progesterone and not estrogen. Dr. Lee’s research points out that most women over 65 still have adequate estrogen to inhibits bone loss ( though not enough to cause ovaluation). But at the age of approximately 35, the body’s progesterone production decline drastically. That is also the age of peak bone production in women. After that, it declines. By age 50, the body’s progesterone level is extremely low.

His associate Jerilyn Prior, MD found evidence of progesterone’s possible role in countering the effect of osteoporosis in a study of 66 pre-menopausal women aged between 21and 41. All of these women were long distance marathon runners. It was observed that after 12 months of therapy that their average spinal bone density decreased by about 2%. However, women who developed ovulation disturbances lost 4.2% of their bone mass in one year. While there is no correlation between the rate of bone loss and serum level of estrogen, there was a close relationship between the indicators of progesterone status and bone loss. It appears that the progesterone deficiency rather than estrogen deficiency is the major factor in the pathogenesis of menopausal osteoporosis. Dr. Lee believes that a transdermal method is the best way to get natural progesterone safely into the body.

The efficacy of natural progesterone is verified by a three-year study of 63 post-menopausal women with osteoporosis. Women using transdermal progesterone cream experienced an average 7-8% bone mass density increase in the first year, 4-5% the second year, and 3-4%, the third year. The untreated women in this age category typically lose 0.7- 2% bone density per year.

Nutritional Supplement Consideration:

Women (Postmenopausal): 20 mg of USP Natural Progesterone a day for 25 days a month

Women (Pre or Peri-menopausal): 20 mg of USP Natural Progesterone a day for Day 14-28 of a 28-day cycle.

Men: 5 mg of USP Natural Progesterone a day everyday of the month."

[luckitri]

Thank you SharonC. The progesterone cream is great! I have posted about it here before. I improved while on daily steroids (which eat bone) with that cream.

[alicemagooey]

Hello all..

I wanted to ask of you , Luckitri and SharonC..about the progesterone cream.

i have some.it is called
PROGESTA PLUS
BY AARISE HEALTH CARE PRODUCTS,
http://www.healthyhormones.com

does this look like a good brand???

. Directions say:"use daily for one month on and one month off,"

OH DEAR, I JUST RE READ THE INSTRUCTIONS..IT SAID USE FOR ONE MONTH AND THEN LEAVE OFF FOR FIVE DAYS AND THEN RE CONTINUE.

oh well,.i am re commencing.
This sounds like a good idea.

please let me know if you think this is an ok brand.
It seems to have other things in it..
opionion would be appreciated.

PS THANK YOU SHARON C FOR ALL THE OSTEOPOROSIS INFO.
DR LAMS PLACE SEEMS REALLY GOOD IN TERMS OF WHAT WE NEED TO
do supplement-wise.

I had a couple thoughts on this, however.

I think if we embark on RAW that we ought to use
www.fitday.com or such, and fill in what our actual diets are comprised of, on a regular basis.. and look and see if the nutritional requirements are met by our raw diet FIRST before supplementing.

I have found by experience that i have AMPLE.. AND MORE THAN AMPLE vitamin K , just on green smoothies and my raw diet.

no matter how many green smoothies i drink, and greens, i still am somewhat deficient in calcium and magnesium.
So i supplement these.. But not in the mega doses recommended by doctors.. just enough to bring the counts up using fitday...as my frame of reference.

Nothing raw provides me with vitamin D..i live in the North, so sun may do a bit but not all in this regard;so i supplement this with a vegan form of vitamin D.

i think if we follow the excellent ideas found in this thread, that we will all at least see some form of improvement..
(all other lifestyle factors taken into consideration, of course, obviously, as there are many things which effect our lives other than diet and excercise.)
(But these sure are key.)
THANKS TO ALL.. all and every submission welcomed..as we are all still learning..
heck, after diet and excercise, we may tackle stress issues.. he he

um, "tilt.."

cheerio !
alice

[luckitri]

Hi Alice. The kind I take when I can get it is Ess ProL'eve. I get it from International Health in Scottsdale AZ. 1-800-481-9987 On the bottle it says how to use as per Dr Lee's directions. I met them at a seminar they gave with Dr. Lee as the speaker.

I do not understand products that have soy in them as yours does because in recent years we have been told that soy blocks calcium absorption. However there are many out there like yours that have the soy isoflavones. I just have not learned why they help with the product.

All this stuff is changing constantly and we just do the best we can.

[alicemagooey]

Thank you, Luckitri

much appreciated.!

alice

[SharonC]

Hi Alice, Just wanted to let you know that I am going to answer soon. Way behind on writing my articles for the neighborhood newsletter because I have been gardening so much since the weather is cooler right now!

[Maria]

One thing that Victoria Boutenko stresses in her books on raw is that we don't take up the nutrients unless the cellulose in the veg is broken down to very fine particles. That's why it's so important to chew the food, and then chew some more. That's why she's such an advocate for the green smoothie. The nutrients are more easily digested by the system, and formed into bone (in this case.) I personally believe that getting the nutrition from food instead of supplements is better, but that's just me.

I do add green powder, flax seed meal, veg. glucosamine, and magnesium to my green smoothies. Magnesium is good for sleeping disorders and leg cramps.

Maria

[SharonC]

Do not like a lot of the ingredients that are added to so many progesterone creams, including soy. This one is sold at the compounding pharmacy where my friend works - http://www.restoredbalanceonline.com/pmscreme.htm The website says that it is independently tested. The one that Luckitri recommended looks good too - found it on the same website as the transdermal magnesium oil that I use - https://securewsch01.websitecomplete.com/parnham/shop/showDept.asp?dept=164

The very purest would probably be personally compounded but would need a prescription.

I agree that the raw food diet provides way more nutrients, and we do not need to supplement nearly as much. The best way to get all the nutrients we need is a varied raw food diet - consuming lots of blended foods (GREEN SMOOTHIES), sprouts, wheatgrass, etc., and juicing as needed (juicing especially helpful if working to reverse disease).

My thoughts about the many factors to consider regarding supplementing the diet...

The nutrients in our food supply depend on the nutrients in the soil - hard to know exactly what is in our food. The nutrient content has been declining a lot since the discovery of synthetic fertilizers and abandonment of the natural way of growing food. If it is grown organically, odds are it has more nutrients - depends on how the farmer is replenishing the soil, the use of cover crops that help to increase the nutrient content, etc.

Also depends on how nutrient rich the diet and what the body is able to absorb - absorption is extremely important - does not matter what we eat if we are not absorbing the nutrients. Many people today (due to many factors) are not able to absorb nutrients properly and/or do not chew their food thoroughly - the older the person, the worse this usually is (proper absorption, not the chewing!) Blending will help with this because the nutrients will be more absorbable - juicing even more and is highly recommended for people who are working to heal their bodies, especially quickly.

The unbelievable amount of toxins we are exposed to from every direction are another factor - our bodies need more nutrients just to function in today's toxic world. More nutrients are needed for the body to perform it's daily tasks and also to work extra hard to eliminate toxins.

Stress (physical and emotional) are a factor in the amount of nutrients our body needs to repair and heal.

Another factor is how long we have abused our bodies with an unhealthy lifestyle, and the present condition of our body. More nutrients are needed if attempting to heal the body of a disease process - even more if need/want to heal quickly.

There are some nutrients (such as vitamin D and magnesium) that in general seem to be low in many people. There is a test for vitamin D deficiency, but no reliable test for magnesium. Besides my whole food supplements (that I consider as making up for any deficiencies in my food), I also use a transdermal magnesium from ocean water on my skin - https://securewsch01.websitecomplete.com/parnham/shop/showDept.asp?dept=170. Also, add sea minerals to my green smoothies and water.

This is a great article about whole food supplements...
http://www.newstarget.com/007347.html

[luckitri]

Just talked to Glen Parnham at International Health and he verified so much of what I am learning here as well as everywhere else. This guy has so much energy to talk to people all over the world every day. Just call the 800# and he will get back to you. I got their website:

www.internationalhealth.net

He explained that we are all magnesium deficient and those of us with osteoporosis need extra to rebuild our bones. He said if we ingested all that we need we would spend our lives in the bathroom. They have some new products to aid with magnesium absorption. He is starting me out with bath crystals and a gel. They also have a magnesium oil.

[luckitri]

Sharon, it is the same site! Yours and mine are the same people. I just got the magnesium bath stuff and the magnesium gel cause they told me I needed it for the bones. Also the clinical researcher Glen Parnham is familiar with the lovely people I am meeting through the www.watercure2.com site.

However I am hoping that everyone comes back soon because I got my NewsTarget today about the Healing Foods, herbs etc - a huge list they have been compiling. For osteoporosis, on the top of the good healing foods list is soy, that is right SOY! SOY! SOY! I can't keep up! I thought it was bad. I thought soy interferes with calcium absorption.

http://healingfoodreference.com/osteoporosis.html


Guess I am going to have to get updated on soy now.

[luckitri]

SharonC, Thanks for the start the healing link! If someone wished to do their own whole food supplementation at home I am wondering how we would know for example - how many mg of vitamin C we were getting from our juicer. Then again I read your link to NewsTarget 2005 where he talks about condensed nutrition. I just want to figure out the po folk way to do it!

[EZ rider]

I just want to figure out the po folk way to do it!Fortunately the best way to feed the body with the nutrients it needs is also the po folk way. Wouldn't you just know it, God always wants the best for everyone and he's provided it to us so that we don't have to buy expensive supplements etc. The most expensive supplements don't work nearly as well as the natural foods he has provided. If you want magnesium just eat green leafy vegetables. Calcium same. Just look to the garden foods for the best nutrients.

[luckitri]

Thanks EZ, I sure hope you are right because I need to reverse this in a big way - I am already at the worst stage and my older sister broke her hip so am hoping the greens do it.

[EZ rider]

My next suggestion is for someone wanting to take an aggressive approach to using God's foods to heal. Wheat grass is considered a "super food" of greens and is just loaded with nutrients. If you grow wheat grass at home, buying the seeds in bulk, it is truly a po man's food. I suggest if you grow it that you harvest the blades on the first growth only and get them when they are only 3 to 7 inches long. The longer they grow the less sweet and potent they become. Once they have sprouted give them plenty of sunlight to green them up. If you can grow them outside you can use the square foot gardening system and just plant and harvest a square foot everyday. If your lucky you might be able to get a greens juicer at a garage sale or somewhere else used for a reasonable price. Good Luck.

[styersky]

Without buying more books . . . can someone refer me to a website for instructions and info on growing wheatgrass, please.

[luckitri]

Yes I am a bit overwhelmed by it also. Family adopted a cat that I know will be getting in it and need to figure out how to keep him out.

I am not finding this style of eating easy yet and since I am trying to recuperate my health there are extra things I need to do each day - like remember to eat my aloe vera, etc. I would need a juicer that does wheatgrass as well and I have not worked in 7 months so I can pray. (Not well enough to go around to garage sales.) (I bought some a while back and it did not work in my juicers so I tried to just eat it and choked. ha ha) My son thinks I am truly crazy.

[EZ rider]

Now I feel bad because my post has made you want something that is out of reach and I'm sorry. I hope a solution happens.

[styersky]

My next suggestion is for someone wanting to take an aggressive approach to using God's foods to heal. Wheat grass is considered a "super food" of greens and is just loaded with nutrients. If you grow wheat grass at home, buying the seeds in bulk, it is truly a po man's food. I suggest if you grow it that you harvest the blades on the first growth only and get them when they are only 3 to 7 inches long. The longer they grow the less sweet and potent they become. Once they have sprouted give them plenty of sunlight to green them up. If you can grow them outside you can use the square foot gardening system and just plant and harvest a square foot everyday. If your lucky you might be able to get a greens juicer at a garage sale or somewhere else used for a reasonable price. Good Luck.

Not having experience or knowledge of wheat grass . . . in the absence of a juicer, would the wheatgrass be a good ingredient in green smoothies?

[luckitri]

I think someone wrote that it got wrapped around the blades and almost killed her blender.

I really do want to do the wheatgrass and I do like it when it is sweet. I had seen a manual juicer at a HFS and planned on getting it when able but the store closed down.

I am a little concerned when purchasing metal products made in other countries because I am aware that some often make products out of radioactive metal and we do not have enough inspectors to catch it.

EZ, did not mean to make you feel bad. I know wheat grass is on my to do list. But you know what? I have 2 alternative health people helping me now and one is coaching me long distance and sending me books and product and is very positive for my recovery. The other one is local at www.internationalhealth.net and I was speaking with Glen Parnham and he started listing everything of his products that I need - I had just called for the one progesterone for my osteoporosis - and he gave me the others along with a DVD that is quite radical and addresses many of the topics that people have talked about here over the time that I have been here. I have been wanting to share the DVD with people here but don't know how. He says alot of the information is on his website. They have wonderful products that are acceptable to raw foodists.

I can't wait to show it to my husband because he says very clearly that the antibiotics fed to the cattle is what upsets your own intestinal flora when you eat it. He also explains the estrogen dominance coming from diet that give men prostrate as well as cause women problems.

[luckitri]

SharonC! I just put the magnesium gel on my face before logging on. I needed a break because my back was hurting so bad. I think that gel has eased my back pain in less than 10 minutes! (Didn't know it would be THAT powerful!) Some of it got on my lips and it tastes like ocean and it feels like how your skin feels after swimming in the ocean too!

[SharonC]

SharonC! I just put the magnesium gel on my face before logging on. I needed a break because my back was hurting so bad. I think that gel has eased my back pain in less than 10 minutes! (Didn't know it would be THAT powerful!) Some of it got on my lips and it tastes like ocean and it feels like how your skin feels after swimming in the ocean too!

That's great Luckitri! Magnesium works very well as a muscle relaxer. Hope it helps you with your other issues!!

Regarding inexpensive concentrated nutrients, sprouts are great - easy and very inexpensive. You may already be sprouting, but if not, this is a great explanation...
http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/sprouts.htm

[Maria]

The best magnesium supplement I've found is Dr. Gillham's CALM. It's a powder that you dissolve in warm water. I add it to my smoothie every morning.

Maria (sleeping like a baby due to the above magnesium)

[styersky]

Luckitri . . .

Thank you so much for mentioning Mr. Glen Parnham with International Health.

I have talked to him and ordered the products he recommends. The information I learned from him is worth the price of the products even if I never take them! But, of course, I will take them.

Luckitri, I would be interested in your comments on the products. I know you have commented on the magnesium already. You mentioned wanting to share the DVD. Glen says they will send the DVD to anyone who requests it. The phone number is 480 874 1879 and I understand it is available to anyone. There is no charge. The info he gave me this morning is from the DVD and it is wonderful info.

[luckitri]

After watching the DVD I realized that I may truly never be well unless I start taking a probiotic of good quality. As Glen Parnham explained - if you have been ingesting animal products that have been raised on antibiotics - those antibiotics have been killing the probiotics in your intestine.

My unanswered question still is can one repopulate the intestine with good flora or as I read somewhere - will I have to permanently supplement with probiotics. The somewhere (can't remember where) said that once they are gone all you can do is supplement and that the kinds in the supplements do not acclimate themselves naturally to populate your stomach.

I am taking the progesterone cream. I will just try to avoid the doctor for now so I don't get confronted about taking the Rx. I know it works. As I stated before - I was forced to live on steroids and I did grow bone with this cream while on the steroids. I hope to grow alot more bone now that I am off them.

The magnesium bath crystals seem to be easing up my body pains and making it easier for me to move more. Glen Parnham says that if I do it everyday for two weeks my insomnia should be gone. I have to say that this has been such a problem for so many years that I am sceptical but hoping to become a believer.

I wrote above about the magnesium gel (its really liquid - barely gel) easing my back pain. Makes your skin feel good too.

I am glad you called him styersky. He has alot of energy to educate. I think that how he talks to people individually is very special and rare.

[styersky]

Just talked to Glen Parnham at International Health and he verified so much of what I am learning here as well as everywhere else. This guy has so much energy to talk to people all over the world every day. Just call the 800# and he will get back to you. I got their website:

www.internationalhealth.net

He explained that we are all magnesium deficient and those of us with osteoporosis need extra to rebuild our bones. He said if we ingested all that we need we would spend our lives in the bathroom. They have some new products to aid with magnesium absorption. He is starting me out with bath crystals and a gel. They also have a magnesium oil.

Have been doing a lot of research via internet regarding osteoporosis. I have talked with Glen Parnham at International Health also. He is enlightening to say the least.

In the past I have dealt with clinical depression, now osteoporosis, insomnia for years, and always being too warm with terrible persipiration even when others are cool. In my research regarding these complaints as well as researching symptoms of magnesium deficiency as well as sources of magnesium, I decided I had a magnesium deficiency. I read that osteoporosis is not a calcium deficiency but rather a magnesium deficiency. So I decided to do my own research with magnesium to see if I could deal with the insomnia.

The first day I took 2400 mg magnesium, the second day 2400, the third day 3600 mg of magnesium and began sleeping like a baby. (If one overdoses on magnesium we will know because of loose bowel movements.) That has not happened yet so I am still at 3600 mg per day.

If I am that deficient in magnesium, it makes sense to me that is part of the osteoporosis problem and I feel better now about leaving off the Fosomax. I am also using progesterone cream at the recommendation of Glen Parnham at International Health because I believe it is all tied to hormonal balance.

I certainly feel more confident about the fosomax and osteoporosis situation now. When I have another bone density test, we will know more.

[alicemagooey]

hi all.. have not been around for a while.. went travellin.

so much good new information here.!

yes, i read that magnesium also is a culprit in bone loss.

. but i also read that calcium and magnesium need to be taken as a supplement, in a specific ratio or the results desired are not accomplished.


I have not been to the International Health place to hear what is said on this subject..

I know i read the above info many many times, as i have always looked at my calcium suppements to ensure that there is a correct proportion of magnesium to the calcium.

Luckitri.
Antibiotics taken either through foods from animals which have had them, or from even widespread use of antibiotics given by the medical community at large for everything from tooth absess to earache, indeed kill the beneficial bacteria in our digestive tracts..

I have read that the beneficial bacteria can be replaced. I am in the process of trying a good probiotic.. which is apparently one of the only ones with a guarenteed live bacterial count..( most over the counter ones have only the guarentee of so many billions of bacteria at time of manufacture)(they are soon killed by warm temperatures and bad storage conditons and most of them end up being worthless.
I have been on it about 6 months.. It seems to be slowly building up my bacterial count.
can tell by the stools.

But , this stuff is expensive and i tend to agree with EZ that our Good Creator has a way for us to cure ourselves naturally..inexpensively.. we just have to find it...

I have been experimenting with fermented veggies and have found them really good.. They also change the climate of your intestinal tract and add live bacteria..I have been making my own fermented cucumbers, and kale,
I have been enjoying them immensely.. and knowing that they are building up healthy flora.. is an added enjoyment.

cheerio
to all
alice

[EZ rider]

There has been an interesting discussion here on RFT about an inexpensive wheat grass juicer.
Here's the link:
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=32956

[luckitri]

Thank you EZ! I totally missed that. Future plans.