raw foodism and eating disorder stigma attached

[lalakis]

i was wondering what everyone's thoughts were about the raw food movement just being an excuse to carry out disordered eating habits...

i know that from my experience, it started to feel as though the restrictions were extreme. i felt embaressed to eat with other people because of all the things i wasn't able to eat. it became psychologically distressing at times, feeling isolated.

but also, in my experience, i started out skinny already. i have dealt with "you're too skinny! eat something!" comments for my entire life. so i suppose it's different compared to someone who is overweight and wanting to become a raw foodist.

i just wonder if the benefits of being 100% raw physically outweigh the psychological negative impacts. not to say that everyone should eat burgers and fries for fear of not fitting in with friends and family, but for ME i feel one thousand times better since not being so extreme. i feel normal again.

does anyone struggle with feeling like raw foodism can easily develop into an eating disorder? and what is the definition of "eating disorder"? could veganism be classified in this category too? i ask myself these questions constantly. just wondering what everyone's thoughts were. it's a hard thing to define since much of our food supply is chemically altered and processed and just not even FOOD anymore. where is the disorder?

[Stina]

I can certainly see how someone could hide an eating disorder behind eating raw. I'm five foot four and weigh 135-140, so I'm not one to be too skinny. I eat a well-rounded raw diet so if any weight is to come off, I'd need to curb my fat and nuts and dates and all of that and get some good exercise.

But my intentions are to be healthy and happy and spiritual and energetic, so I don't get hung up on weight.

When anyone questions the integrity of the raw diet, I make a comment about how many professional athletes eat like this, and if anyone is tuned in with how their body reacts with diet, it would be marathon runners and the like. People seem to really "hear" that response and get it, you know.

[Green Life]

My opinion ONLY~

I think you should not worry so much about what others say or think..most don't, anyway!:D As you carry on with YOUR lifestyle (afterall, it's not theirs!) and eating 100 percent raw, you will not only gain health in body and mind, but you will be stronger and able to comfortably choose whether to react or not towards those whose opinions bother you.

Raw cures most eating disorders, because the food is SO nourishing, one kinda goes into automatic mode, listening to your body's signals as to when to eat, what to eat, and how much to eat.

Don't worry. Just go raw. You'll see. It REALLY REALLY helps in every aspect of ones' life.

Raw is just amazing!!

[Revvell]

Well, not having any "disordered eating habits" ~ whatever they are, I'll have to say that the eating of fresh, raw, ripe fruit, veggies, greens, seeds and nuts as being "restrictive" is weird in my book.

Seems as though eating dead animal carcasses and their fluids, ingesting straight acid drinks laced with sugar or cancer causing chemicals to make it palatable, and drinking a brown fluid with adrenaline imbalancers to get one going in the morning is rather restrictive.

THEN taking more drugs to stop the effects of ingesting all the above and then MORE drugs to counterbalance the effects of the first batch... hmmm. I dunno. Think I'll stick with the "restrictive" foods I am currently eating. :)

When people tell me they are "socially isolated" because they wont eat what or where others do, that tells me they are dis-organized in other ways. I go to networking meetings ~ about 3-4 a month; I use to organize a meeting once a month at Fuddruckers; I travel. I've never had a problem eating ~ I either eat before; request what I want FROM the restaurant of... bring my own.. and enough to share.

Revvellicious

[lalakis]

My opinion ONLY~

I think you should not worry so much about what others say or think..most don't, anyway!:D As you carry on with YOUR lifestyle (afterall, it's not theirs!) and eating 100 percent raw, you will not only gain health in body and mind, but you will be stronger and able to comfortably choose whether to react or not towards those whose opinions bother you.

Raw cures most eating disorders, because the food is SO nourishing, one kinda goes into automatic mode, listening to your body's signals as to when to eat, what to eat, and how much to eat.

Don't worry. Just go raw. You'll see. It REALLY REALLY helps in every aspect of ones' life.

Raw is just amazing!!

I'm saying I WAS 100% raw for a couple of months, and it just screwed with my head psychologically. But that is MY experience. I know that if I has not lost weight while raw, it would not have had that effect.

It wasn't so much about worrying about other people, but it's hard to ignore when people closest to me don't know what to say to me about weight, because they know I am sensitive about being skinny as it is. The last thing I want to hear is "you've lost weight". I just felt weird because I knew what they were thinking....and it was never my intention to get thinner...so I tried desperately to gain weight and still be 100% raw but it would not happen for me. Again, this was MY experience. I think that if a person can maintain a healthy weight while raw than DO IT! It IS wonderful.

[lalakis]

Well, not having any "disordered eating habits" ~ whatever they are, I'll have to say that the eating of fresh, raw, ripe fruit, veggies, greens, seeds and nuts as being "restrictive" is weird in my book.

Seems as though eating dead animal carcasses and their fluids, ingesting straight acid drinks laced with sugar or cancer causing chemicals to make it palatable, and drinking a brown fluid with adrenaline imbalancers to get one going in the morning is rather restrictive.

THEN taking more drugs to stop the effects of ingesting all the above and then MORE drugs to counterbalance the effects of the first batch... hmmm. I dunno. Think I'll stick with the "restrictive" foods I am currently eating. :)

When people tell me they are "socially isolated" because they wont eat what or where others do, that tells me they are dis-organized in other ways. I go to networking meetings ~ about 3-4 a month; I use to organize a meeting once a month at Fuddruckers; I travel. I've never had a problem eating ~ I either eat before; request what I want FROM the restaurant of... bring my own.. and enough to share.

Revvellicious

No I totally agree with you, my diet is mostly fruits and veggies. In terms of salad dressing especially, I just felt ridiculous. Or not eating nuts because they have been heated and are not perfectly raw....or salsa in a jar because it's not technically raw....little things like that. If I went to Fuddrucker's I think I would die as a raw foodist. Over the dinner table is probably the WORST place to discuss raw foodism and have to explain diet, when everyone else is chowing down on burgers and fries. People dont want to hear that what they are doing is wrong while they are doing it.

[mikeshafer]

I'm hoping raw foodism can develop an eating disorder for me! Seriously, I've always thought of food as entertainment and even a competition with myself or my friends (Mike can eat so much, he'll finish everything... so I would.... and then push myself to see how much I could eat). My inner game on food was messed up -- food should be a source of fuel, not something to do just for fun. (although it can be)

If I can change my eating habits such that I eat only when I need fuel, I'll be much happier. And thinner. And have my six pack. :)

[CaliRaw]

Even though you are thin, do you feel that you are at a healthy weight now, but not when you were 100% raw? If so, then do what you need to do to feel good about yourself mentally and physically.

I think any type of eating can be classified as an 'eating disorder' if it is causing physical harm to one's body. Even though raw is healthy, it can be a tool that some people will use to feed their eating disorder tendencies. Eating disorders don't always have to be 'too skinny', it could go the other way too.

People are telling me that I am getting thin. I have read Alissa's book and others. I feel that my body will find its best weight. I'm going to go with that. If it's eventually too skinny based on other's opinions, then so be it. I'm eating healthy.

[CaliRaw]

I'm hoping raw foodism can develop an eating disorder for me! Seriously, I've always thought of food as entertainment and even a competition with myself or my friends (Mike can eat so much, he'll finish everything... so I would.... and then push myself to see how much I could eat). My inner game on food was messed up -- food should be a source of fuel, not something to do just for fun. (although it can be)

If I can change my eating habits such that I eat only when I need fuel, I'll be much happier. And thinner. And have my six pack. :)

I just had a vision of Doug Heffernan (King of Queens) when I read that. :)

[CaliRaw]

No I totally agree with you, my diet is mostly fruits and veggies. In terms of salad dressing especially, I just felt ridiculous. Or not eating nuts because they have been heated and are not perfectly raw....or salsa in a jar because it's not technically raw....little things like that. If I went to Fuddrucker's I think I would die as a raw foodist. Over the dinner table is probably the WORST place to discuss raw foodism and have to explain diet, when everyone else is chowing down on burgers and fries. People dont want to hear that what they are doing is wrong while they are doing it.

I agree. When asked about my eating in that situation, I just explain what I'm doing and say that I feel it is healthier for ME. I let it go at that, unless they ask more questions.

[tanishamarshall]

Well, not having any "disordered eating habits" ~ whatever they are, I'll have to say that the eating of fresh, raw, ripe fruit, veggies, greens, seeds and nuts as being "restrictive" is weird in my book.

Seems as though eating dead animal carcasses and their fluids, ingesting straight acid drinks laced with sugar or cancer causing chemicals to make it palatable, and drinking a brown fluid with adrenaline imbalancers to get one going in the morning is rather restrictive.

THEN taking more drugs to stop the effects of ingesting all the above and then MORE drugs to counterbalance the effects of the first batch... hmmm. I dunno. Think I'll stick with the "restrictive" foods I am currently eating. :)

When people tell me they are "socially isolated" because they wont eat what or where others do, that tells me they are dis-organized in other ways. I go to networking meetings ~ about 3-4 a month; I use to organize a meeting once a month at Fuddruckers; I travel. I've never had a problem eating ~ I either eat before; request what I want FROM the restaurant of... bring my own.. and enough to share.

Revvellicious

Great post revvell I want to be sure not to ever eat meat again, your post made me think about the times I have eaten meat, I feel sick to my stomach thinking about it.

Lalakis:
I don't feel that Raw covers a eating disorder, at least for me but so far it has exposed the problems I've had with food as in overeating food. I think it has brought and still is bringing out emotional issues that I use to deal with by eating food.

To be totally honest I have never liked veggies but I was never really fed veggies as a child so that is why I don't care to much for veggies. The only time I really enjoy veggies is if they are super soft and of course by then the nutrients are gone and even then I didn't care to eat them.

Raw has not been easy for me but I'm trying to learn to enjoy these foods and It's not easy so I can't say for all people it would cover an eating disorder, my belief is that it exposes our eating disorders.

At times I agree this way of eating does seem restrictive but for me it only seems that way because I was use to eating meat and actually meat was my main meal that sounds very retrictive to me but because I was so use to eating it, it was just normal. A meal wasn't a meal without meat.

Also I think Raw will seem more restrictive when you're out eating with friends because most restaurants follow the SAD Diet and there aren't many options available for Raw Fooders. Everytime I attempt to eat out I don't have many options and there aren't any Raw Restaurants where I live. The closet Raw Restaurant is 2.5 hours away.

[rozy]

I have noticed that people are scared of anything that, to them, is not normal. To them normal is eating McDonalds and junk food. Plus, us eating raw and doing what is right for our bodies brings out their insecurities about themselves and can bring out their jealousy because they know they can't possible follow this way of life. So they want to scare us or ridicule us so we will stop eating this way so they don't feel so bad about themselves.

[lalakis]

Even though you are thin, do you feel that you are at a healthy weight now, but not when you were 100% raw? If so, then do what you need to do to feel good about yourself mentally and physically.

I think any type of eating can be classified as an 'eating disorder' if it is causing physical harm to one's body. Even though raw is healthy, it can be a tool that some people will use to feed their eating disorder tendencies. Eating disorders don't always have to be 'too skinny', it could go the other way too.

People are telling me that I am getting thin. I have read Alissa's book and others. I feel that my body will find its best weight. I'm going to go with that. If it's eventually too skinny based on other's opinions, then so be it. I'm eating healthy.

Yes I feel at a healthy weight now. Not that I necessarily felt BAD before, quite the opposite actually, but my BMI got down to like 15.5 while 100% raw. I had tons of energy and vigor but psychologically SO self-conscious. Could not gain no matter how much I ate....eating bananas and nuts before bed....tons of fruit thinking that the sugar would help....now my BMI is between 17 and 17.5 which is still technically underweight but it's the BMI I have been at my entire life, so I feel so much more comfortable again. I think about my body now and say "phew!" to myself. Thank goodness! :)

That's what I mean when I say, what is the definition for 'disordered eating'? I think the SAD diet is disordered. It's hard to know where to draw the line. Overweight people tell me to eat a burger, obviously I am smart enough to see the reality in that situation and not feel self-conscious for being skinny. However if my mother, who knows I have been thin my entire life, comments to me that she is worried my eating habits are too restrictive, I take something like that to heart. I definitely realize we must not let EVERYONE'S judgements matter.

It's funny, you probably are not getting too thin. American perception of what a 'normal' body is has gotten larger.

[lalakis]

I'm hoping raw foodism can develop an eating disorder for me! Seriously, I've always thought of food as entertainment and even a competition with myself or my friends (Mike can eat so much, he'll finish everything... so I would.... and then push myself to see how much I could eat). My inner game on food was messed up -- food should be a source of fuel, not something to do just for fun. (although it can be)

If I can change my eating habits such that I eat only when I need fuel, I'll be much happier. And thinner. And have my six pack. :)

hahahah! I loved this.

That brings up another point though, Americans eat out of boredom! Just because it's always around....not because they need it.

[Revvell]

People dont want to hear that what they are doing is wrong while they are doing it.

Agreed. Why even bring it up? I never did which is why people came every month. I wasn't there to talk to them about their eating habits; I was there to get to know them.

Revvellicious

[Shanti]

Lalakis
I think you've brought up a great point and some of the responses are quite dismissive. If you sift through some posts on the site, you will see that many people here have had eating disorders. That isn't a coincidence. It's very restrictive eating, because like it or not (REvell) most of us have not come from eating fruits vegetables or nuts for the last 20, 30, 40, maybe 50 years. We live in a fast food nation, so it takes time to get to know how long these things take to make. Obviously, you are going to lose weight if you have to soak a cup of nuts before you're "supposed" to eat them! I also think that not everyone does everything 100% for the health of their body, mind and spirit. Perhaps some raw foodists aren't environmentally friendly, or smoke, or just aren't nice people..... I don't think perfection should be the focus. If I was in another country and offered some food they made, knowing that it would be the epitome of cultural ethnocentricism to say no, I'll just have my sprouted nuts, thanks, or bananna....... I mean, to me that's a whole new extreme that isn't any better. If you feel more stable, more sane, more healthy and happy with 80% raw, or whatever the number is, then that is the space you should be in. Maybe just for today..... maybe not....you know your body and mind better than anyone on an Internet blog. You know when your habits and your intentions and your goals are crossing the boundary toward unhealthy....

[Revvell]

That isn't a coincidence. It's very restrictive eating, because like it or not (REvell) most of us have not come from eating fruits vegetables or nuts for the last 20, 30, 40, maybe 50 years.

Never said anyone did and never infered that.. and it's ReVvell. :)



I don't think perfection should be the focus.

Certainly never said or infered that either.

But then, not taking things personally, I know you're talking in general. :D

Revvellicious

[lafsalot]

I just had a vision of Doug Heffernan (King of Queens) when I read that. :)

OMG!! Too funny! :D ~ Cathy

[lalakis]

The last thing I wanted with this thread was to bring up any animosity between posters! I know this can turn into a heated topic as we are all naturally defensive about our diets as it is. RawFoodTalk is like a sanctuary for a lot of people, a support system.

But I remember when first going 100% and thinking it was normal to say no to practically every food choice available to me, because I was doing way better than anyone else I knew. I have never suffered from an eating disorder, but I started to notice tendencies arising from being 100% and so restrictive. I know that on one hand it's not restrictive at all, I mean I was eating a TON of food. I never starved myself. But the TYPE of food I was allowed was insanely restrictive. I mean, if someone only ate broccoli, but they ate tons of it, so never actually 'starved themselves' which is the basis of the definition for anorexia, where is the line drawn? As raw foodists the food we eat is the lowest in caloric content....well, depending on the amount of nuts one consumes. But I know of a lot of raw foodists who stay away from nuts....based on digestion issues. Myself included! It's so difficult to know what is extreme.

Has anyone ever heard of orthorexia? It's like being "too healthy", which I thought was absurd! Raw foodism is mentioned often in the orthorexia debate.

Honestly I was just wondering what the general opinion was on this board....if anyone struggles with feeling like their diet could be perceived as an eating disorder. I hope that the discussion can stay positive and open!

[NYbutterfly]

Okay...

A raw food diet is not a form of disordered eating, and neither is SAD. Disordered eating is not exactly WHAT you are eating but why and how. Some people are obsessively ritualistic with their meals, some stuff themselves to the point of feeling sick just to fill an emotional void. Some starve themselves to practice "self control" when the rest of life feels a bit out of control for them. This is disoredered eating.

I am 5'5" and 3 years ago lay in the ER at 76 pounds. I was a compulsive overeater (eating out of emotion and not hunger) and then bulllimic, then anorexic. I entered and exited several treatment centers in NY and Florida until finally finding a full time addiction facility, where it took me 8 months to complete a 4 week program because I kept relapsing. One year ago I relapsed again down to 88 pounds. With more treatment, I gained weight and now am 108 lbs.

When I heard of the raw food lifestyle I thought it would be a way for me to apologize, in a way, for mistreating my body all those years. I would give it live, whole foods (not diet this and sugar free that) and learn to listen and trust it again. I admit also that the disordered side of my brain found the message "eat all the raw food you want and not get fat" intriguing.

At first I felt great, excited, energized. Then I got scared. I have worked soooo long and sooo hard to not have "food rules", to not label any foods as good nor bad...and here, suddenly, I learned that all of the so-called healthy foods that I ate to save my life are now "deadly"?! There were so many "questionable" items like almonds and larabars. I felt frustrated and a bit nervous that I could be triggered to fall into a restrictive way of eating again and un-do all of the work I went through in rehab. Not only that, but my family (who were practically planning my funeral not so long ago) feared that they would re-live the nightmare all over again when I told them I won't eat cooked veggies anymore.

Well, I have relapsed, but this time I have fallen into purging again. When I go off the raw food wagon and eat SAD I beat myself up so badly that I purge. This has caused me to gain weight, which makes me feel even more miserable.

I'm sad and disappointed, scared but still hopeful. I want to be a part of the raw food community but the demons of my past overpower me sometimes.

My point is, I understand. I strongly believe in a raw food lifestyle and I do not feel that it can be the cause of an eating disorder, for it is a mental illness and therefore caused by our mind, not our diet. It has triggered a relapse for ME because I was not prepared to let go of my "safe" foods, the foods that got me to a healthy weight again and saved my life. They were vegan, but they were still SAD.

I suppose that is why we go through emotional detoxing as well as physical when we switch to raw :) I do believe in raw, but I do believe it takes time.

[barose]

No I totally agree with you, my diet is mostly fruits and veggies. In terms of salad dressing especially, I just felt ridiculous. Or not eating nuts because they have been heated and are not perfectly raw....or salsa in a jar because it's not technically raw....little things like that. If I went to Fuddrucker's I think I would die as a raw foodist. Over the dinner table is probably the WORST place to discuss raw foodism and have to explain diet, when everyone else is chowing down on burgers and fries. People dont want to hear that what they are doing is wrong while they are doing it.

My exact thoughts! Its not that we want to eat sugar, meat and so forth (my diet was VERY strict prior to going raw anyway), its the "small things". Olives in the salad, vinegratte, mustard and so on can be alienating. Geeze Louise not everyone ate out in out SAD prior to going raw. Why do we have to go to such extremes here and assume everyone was a regular at the drive through before we saw the light of raw?

[NYbutterfly]

My exact thoughts! Its not that we want to eat sugar, meat and so forth (my diet was VERY strict prior to going raw anyway), its the "small things". Olives in the salad, vinegratte, mustard and so on can be alienating. Geeze Louise not everyone ate out in out SAD prior to going raw. Why do we have to go to such extremes here and assume everyone was a regular at the drive through before we saw the light of raw?

Your quote is like a breath of fresh air... or a gulp of green smoothie, shall I say?

I was vegan since age 12, so to think that the past 13 years have been unhealthy just bc I ate my veggies both uncooked and cooked confused the heck out of me. I understand, I get it... but I still look at a jar of organic salsa and... well, I want to eat it!

[barose]

Your quote is like a breath of fresh air... or a gulp of green smoothie, shall I say?

I was vegan since age 12, so to think that the past 13 years have been unhealthy just bc I ate my veggies both uncooked and cooked confused the heck out of me. I understand, I get it... but I still look at a jar of organic salsa and... well, I want to eat it!

I recently gave away some unopened vegan (and soy/dairy/sugar/gluten-free) foods I ate prior to going raw. It was harder than I though it would be, but I'm glad I did it.

On the road or out with friends is hard when you question every single thing your order and question every bite of food - even something as innocent as a salad unless you go to a raw restaurant.

[Frecs]

and what is the definition of "eating disorder"?

Well, here is how the DSM IV (Diagnostic & Statistical Manual) defines eating disorders:

DSM-IV Criteria for Anorexia Nervosa

A. Refusal to maintain body weight at or above a minimally normal weight for age and height (e.g., weight loss leading to maintenance of body weight less than 85% of that expected or failure to make expected weight gain during period of growth, leading to body weight less than 85% of that expected).

B. Intense fear of gaining weight or becoming fat, even though underweight.

C. Disturbance in the way in which one's body weight or shape is experienced, undue influence of body weight or shape on self-evaluation, or denial of the seriousness of the current low body weight.

D. In postmenarcheal females, amenorrhea, i.e., the absence of at least three consecutive menstrual cycles. (A woman is considered to have amenorrhea if her periods occur only following hormone, e.g., estrogen, administration.)

Specify type:
Restricting type: During the current episode of anorexia nervosa, the person has not regularly engaged in binge-eating or purging behavior (i.e., self-induced vomiting or the misuse of laxatives, diuretics or enemas).
Binge-eating/purging type: During the current episode of anorexia nervosa, the person has regularly engaged in binge-eating or purging behavior (i.e., self-induced vomiting or the misuse of laxatives, diuretics or enemas).

DSM-IV Criteria for Bulimia Nervosa

A. Recurrent episodes of binge eating. An episode of binge eating is characterized by both of the following:

1. Eating, in a discrete period of time (e.g., within any two-hour period), an amount of food that is definitely larger than most people would eat during a similar period of time and under similar circumstances.
2. A sense of lack of control over eating during the episode (e.g., a feeling that one cannot stop eating or control what or how much one is eating).

B. Recurrent inappropriate compensatory behavior in order to prevent weight gain, such as self-induced vomiting; misuse of laxatives, diuretics, enemas or other medications; fasting; or excessive exercise.

C. The binge eating and inappropriate compensatory behaviors both occur, on average, at least twice a week for three months.

D. Self-evaluation is unduly influenced by body shape and weight.

E. The disturbance does not occur exclusively during episodes of anorexia nervosa.

Specify type:
Purging type: During the current episode of bulimia nervosa, the person has regularly engaged in self-induced vomiting or the misuse of laxatives, diuretics or enemas.

Nonpurging type: During the current episode of bulimia nervosa, the person has used other inappropriate compensatory behaviors, such as fasting or excessive exercise, but has not regularly engaged in self-induced vomiting or the misuse of laxatives, diuretics or enemas.

And, then, there's the ever faithful "eating disorder not otherwise specified" which would cover compulsive overeating and various combinations.

Can being a Rawfoodist be a cover-up? Absolutely. But, so can many other ways of eating.

[april092776]

For me, going raw has had the exact opposite effect of 'disordered' eating. I was a SAD eater (but a 'healthful' version of SAD in my mind at the time), but I had all these food hangups. I was always comparing foods, like certain foods were inherently good and others were bad/no nos. To me, that was really restrictive. That was what messed with my head. Trying to figure out the least of the evils, because I kind of viewed food as my enemy. Food was something that could be bad for you or make you fat. I never enjoyed how I felt after a meal, because as much as I tried to avoid it, I usually overate. I was remorseful for doing something that is supposed to be enjoyable and life-sustaining--eating!

In addition, I have suffered from IBS for a while, and I was always worrying about which foods would set off an IBS episode, etc. With raw, I eat as much as I want (and I have a big appetite!), get full enough, and never feel remorseful for eating. I eat small meals/snacks all day, whenever I am hungry, and I never feel as though I shouldn't. I eat delicious and simple raw desserts whenever I want, and NEVER feel guilty about it. To me, the raw way of eating is positively decadent. Even better than that, I am free of weird food hangups/disordered thoughts and my IBS is improving!

I have to say that I don't go out to eat much, and I when I do, people don't really ask much about my food. So that part of it has never been an issue for me. If asked for a restaurant request, I just always make sure it is a place that I know I can get a huge raw salad, olive oil and lemon juice (for dressing).

[bunnybunny]

I think there is definitely a link between eating disoders and raw foodism. I am not saying that being raw causes eating disorders--that's obviously not how it works. But I think it is interesting to note that many people on a raw diet had or have EDs. Not that people on a SAD or some other diet don't also have them, but am I the only one who finds it interesting that quite a few people mentioned starving, counting calories, binging, and purging in the what addiction will you break? (http://rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=30857) thread?

Also, in one of the vegan books I have there is a whole chapter about veganism and eating disorders, because the "restrictive" nature of a vegan diet can make it easier for people to deny themselves ice cream, cheeseburgers, candy, chocolates, etc. Also makes it easier to avoid eating or avoid certain foods in social settings, with family, out to dinner, etc.

I have heard of orthorexia, only very recently actually, but I think that there is certainly some truth to it. Anything to an extreme can be unhealthy. What ever happened to "everything in moderation"?

[bunnybunny]

April that is wonderful. With raw I have found a lot of my disordered thoughts have gone away as well, however not having as much luck with the IBS symptoms. Just out of curiosity are you 100% raw?

[Judy]

Some people who eat raw food, have eating disorders, but they already had them before they started to eat like this. Most people are into it for health reasons. In your case, I don't think you have to be afraid of an eating disorder, this is not really the question here, the real question is that you're afraid of what others think of you.
I think it's not all about the food (yes, it can seem extreme in the eyes of people who are used to having 1000 things to choose from), it's about how you feel about yourself, your confidence, and about following what's good for you, even if that means it doesn't fit the standard. Adjusting to what others think, means that in some way you are lying to yourself.

When I started eating raw 14 months ago, I was in the same place as you are now. I already was quite slender and due to detox, my weight dropped down to a point I was underweight and boy, did I get remarks from my loved ones (and not so loved ones) about that. Not only did I feel like a freak about the way I was eating, I also didn't fully trust it was only detox and that I would gain it back in time in the form of new and healthy tissue, because it was all new to me. So I felt crap about the remarks, allthough it were only remarks out of concern, nothing bad actually.
Due to this (plus some other issues) the last year I haven't been fully raw either, only like 50/50 percent, and the weight came back on. But I also didn't feel as good as I did when I ate lots of raw in the beginning.

Nowadays, I'm high raw with some days all raw and feel that I'm not far away from 100%. I feel I'm up to that now. The way how I feel about it all today, is só different from how I felt about it 14 months ago. I feel far more secure. And nowadays, the focus isn't on the food, it's on the rest of my life and that also helps tremendously (eating out is not so much about the eating, but about being with the people you love and having a good time together).
I figured out that a lot of fruit didn't work for me (I ate lots of fruits in the beginning), not only energy and nutrition wise, but it also made me drop too much weight, too quickly. Now I eat lots of greens and I feel a whole lot better physically, and my weight is natural, not underweight like 14 months ago (this maybe something you want to look into, I've read people who want to gain or keep weight in a healthy way, have to eat more greens and some fats as opposed to fruit, and in my case, it seems to work).
I also noticed that if you feel insecure about what you're doing, people will react to that accordingly. Working on your confidence can really help. There are a lot of 100% raw foodists functioning very well in the 'real world', so it's possible. I've learnt (and still learn) a lot from studying how they are doing it, and have concluded it's really all in the attitude and the state of mind.

[april092776]

Bunnybunny,
I hate to hijack the thread, but I did not want to ignore your question either! There have been several good threads, at least one pretty recently here, on IBS and raw. You could probably do a banana search.

I guess I would consider myself 99% raw. I do not eat 'cooked food'. However, I occasionally use non-raw items like cocoa powder, table salt (if I am at a restaurant), etc. I also take a multivitamin and soluble fiber supplement, neither of which would be considered raw, I don' think. I have kicked my caffeine habit and have not had any alcohol either since I started raw at the beginning of August.

As far as my IBS goes, my primary symptom was constipation, but I had all of the terrible pain, bloating, spasms, etc too. Now, my symptoms are gradually clearing. I made a mistake when I first went raw by quitting my soluble fiber supplement cold turkey--bad idea! I am still taking them, but cutting down on them and no longer need miralax. (I used to take miralax everyday, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day.)

I drink 1.5 to 2 qts of 'easy' green smoothies a day--I think this is my saving grace as far as my IBS goes. By 'easy', I mean beginner ingredients and sweet: baby spinach, bananas, water, ice, whatever other yummy ripe fruit I have on hand, coconut oil, ground flaxseed. Other than that, I eat what I want. I was having problems with some veggies at the beginning, but that seems to have subsided. (But I need to try broccoli again--that one has always irritated my system for some reason.)

[SmilingRawDancer]

I would say that discovering raw food (for me) happened because I was scouring the net for "thinspiration" and info on what models did or didn't eat. I had been starving myself for a year straight.

I came across a site that was labeled "a models diet that won't kill you."

Before even hearing about raw food it was always in the back of my mind "THERE HAS GOT TO BE A NATURAL, REAL WAY TO EAT THAT NOURISHES AND WILL NOT EVER BE THE CAUSE OF OBESITY."

I kept thinking about the garden of eden. No animals eaten, only fruit trees and plants. It occured to me - that is the original plan - that is what is optimal. And I felt SO STUPID for never thinking about it before.

[RawDancer]

This is a great thread. I have thought about this alot recently. I am recovering from anorexia right now, trying to put weight back on. For the past year I have been increasing the amount of raw food I eat and now I am very high raw. I don't think that raw causes eating disorders, it helped me with mine. At first I used raw as a way to sort of hide my eating disorder. I could restrict my food, even though it looked like I was eating alot it was mostly lettuce and salad type things. Now it's different, I no longer restrict my food. I eat when I'm hungry and what I crave. I eat a ton of fat and high calorie foods. one in a while I still have restricting thoughts but most of the time I eat because I'm hungry and I know that my body needs food. Raw food isn't an eating disorder, an eating disorder has to do with what you think about the food. You can easily have an eating disorder eating raw foods but you can just as easily have an eating disorder eating SAD. If you really look at a raw food diet it is the opposite of restricting. You can eat all raw fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds and not have to worry about your health or eating too much sugar ect. Raw foods is the best life style ever!

As for eating out I don't find it that difficult. I just order a salad, you can always just use lemon for dressing. I know that people think that I'm weird sometimes it bothers me that they are judgeing me on what I eat but I usually don't even think about it. I feel good eating what I'm eating and I don't want to eat anything else. They can eat their dead food but I am not going to have any. I respect their choices and am confidant with mine.

[dreamrawalwz]

I've struggled with an eating disorder and raw has helped so much. Still thoughts and urges may be there, but I'm not acting on the thoughts. The food pretty much feels better inside and no need to do things I shouldnt. My manager knows of my past with anorexia and she still assumes raw has EVERYTHING to do with that and "how bad off" i am with my eating disorder. Nothing I can say will convince her it's not so I gave up trying. I'm just going to let her think what she wants.

I belong to an eating disorder recovery type of community through livejournal and there are so many trying to eat "fear foods" and telling themselves "it's just a piece of cake, it won't hurt me!" type of thing. I automatically think "yes it will! It's not healthy!" I'm not even refering to calories or fat or anything, just the ingredients. They keep saying "everything in moderation" as far as sweets, fats, etc. I understand the "fear food" thing, but ugh. It just annoys me. I have a few friends that I know are dealing with food intolerances and if they cut out certain food (groups) they'd feel much better, but I can't tell them or their ED will take over :( It's frustrating. Maybe this is my disordered thinking, who knows. I am an all or nothing person, but still.

Then there is the topic of being "too healthy" and orthorexic. I don't believe putting your health first is a bad thing!! Maybe it's the SAD public just picking on those that want to be healthy or something....who knows.

Just had to vent about those two things.

Do what's best for YOU and YOUR body.

Oh yea, as others have said, raw does not cause or is not an eating disorder. Just as many use it for just weight loss, it can hide an eating disorder. Many people have eating disorders not on raw. You can have raw nuts, seeds, avocados, coconut, etc. for fat just as SAD can eat fatty meats, or "fear foods." Heck, I was thinking the other day that if I REALLY wanted to go back to severely restricting I'd probably be more sucessful if I ate plastic tasting chemicals with diet this and diet that. I'd rather be healthy and the best I can be nutritionally instead of eating rice cakes and eggwhites.

One more thing! Sorry lol, I keep thinking of more. When many people think of Raw they think of "rabbit food." Even those that go raw think an apple is a meal when instead if should be 3-4 probably. Some think a "salad" is the side plate or maybe even a dinner plate size. I have a mixing bowl size lol.

[dreamrawalwz]

Okay...

A raw food diet is not a form of disordered eating, and neither is SAD. Disordered eating is not exactly WHAT you are eating but why and how. Some people are obsessively ritualistic with their meals, some stuff themselves to the point of feeling sick just to fill an emotional void. Some starve themselves to practice "self control" when the rest of life feels a bit out of control for them. This is disoredered eating.

I am 5'5" and 3 years ago lay in the ER at 76 pounds. I was a compulsive overeater (eating out of emotion and not hunger) and then bulllimic, then anorexic. I entered and exited several treatment centers in NY and Florida until finally finding a full time addiction facility, where it took me 8 months to complete a 4 week program because I kept relapsing. One year ago I relapsed again down to 88 pounds. With more treatment, I gained weight and now am 108 lbs.

When I heard of the raw food lifestyle I thought it would be a way for me to apologize, in a way, for mistreating my body all those years. I would give it live, whole foods (not diet this and sugar free that) and learn to listen and trust it again. I admit also that the disordered side of my brain found the message "eat all the raw food you want and not get fat" intriguing.

At first I felt great, excited, energized. Then I got scared. I have worked soooo long and sooo hard to not have "food rules", to not label any foods as good nor bad...and here, suddenly, I learned that all of the so-called healthy foods that I ate to save my life are now "deadly"?! There were so many "questionable" items like almonds and larabars. I felt frustrated and a bit nervous that I could be triggered to fall into a restrictive way of eating again and un-do all of the work I went through in rehab. Not only that, but my family (who were practically planning my funeral not so long ago) feared that they would re-live the nightmare all over again when I told them I won't eat cooked veggies anymore.

Well, I have relapsed, but this time I have fallen into purging again. When I go off the raw food wagon and eat SAD I beat myself up so badly that I purge. This has caused me to gain weight, which makes me feel even more miserable.

I'm sad and disappointed, scared but still hopeful. I want to be a part of the raw food community but the demons of my past overpower me sometimes.

My point is, I understand. I strongly believe in a raw food lifestyle and I do not feel that it can be the cause of an eating disorder, for it is a mental illness and therefore caused by our mind, not our diet. It has triggered a relapse for ME because I was not prepared to let go of my "safe" foods, the foods that got me to a healthy weight again and saved my life. They were vegan, but they were still SAD.

I suppose that is why we go through emotional detoxing as well as physical when we switch to raw :) I do believe in raw, but I do believe it takes time.

I can relate to this a lot. I admit part of my illness is still alive and kicking. Ok, it's 24/7 in my mind, just not my actions which is a step in the right direction right? I do know now that whenever I go off raw I feel horrible physically and mentally. Every winter when I seem to go off raw I start the binge/purge cycle multiple times a day with cooked. It makes my body feel so gross, but I guess some could be mentally beating myself up. I hope I didn't offend you in the post above about recovery and "fear foods" as I didn't read all the replies yet. It IS COMPLETELY a mental issue and underneath is not about the food at all no matter what type, how much, or how little. I too figure that raw is a way to help heal my body rather than restrict and punish it, which it used to be. I think I'm starting to talk in circles here...I'll shut up :o

[Green Life]

I kept thinking about the garden of eden. No animals eaten, only fruit trees and plants. It occured to me - that is the original plan - that is what is optimal. And I felt SO STUPID for never thinking about it before.

Dittto!:D You must have read my mind. Or, great minds think alike!! I have felt and thought the exact same way. You worded it better then I could.

[rawzeit]

Isn't eating SAD an eating disorder in itself?!

[Azura Skye]

This is a great question -

I started off eating raw with a bit of both ideals; one- to be able to carry on my disordered eating (i.e eating a lot) but not put on too much weight, and two - to be able to get a bit healthier.

So I started off eating loads and I still do eat a lot, but not as much - and I was like 'yeah Im eating this way for health' but really I was just glad I could eat loads and 'get away with it' - however, by saying 'I'm doing it for health' actually made me realise that I don't know what healthy really is, and I wanted to find out.

So eventhough I started off leaning towards raw for eating disordered reasons - I have now carried on eating raw for almost 2 years because I want to be healthy. I changed my vocab from i want to LOSE LOSE LOSE weight, to GAIN GAIN GAIN health - and just being able to say those words, usually associated with male terminology in regards to the physique - made me feel a lot stronger. So now I thank RAW soo much for giving me peace of mind.

This year I have stayed at the same weight- ALL YEAR! This has never happened to me, and I think it's because I no longer feel super guilty about eating certain things, and I'm happy. I'm happy with what I eat, and how much I eat and I feel my eating disorder may always be with me, but I'm much more relaxed about it now.

So I don't care if people start raw with eating disorders because the health they will inevitably feel, I believe will strenghthen their minds and lead them onto a path of health.

I also think in this messed up world everyone has an eating disorder unless you are lucky enough to be raised in a family which doesn't add emotions onto food etc...

[NYbutterfly]

I hope I didn't offend you in the post above about recovery and "fear foods" as I didn't read all the replies yet. It IS COMPLETELY a mental issue and underneath is not about the food at all no matter what type, how much, or how little. I too figure that raw is a way to help heal my body rather than restrict and punish it, which it used to be. I think I'm starting to talk in circles here...I'll shut up :o

No offense taken at all. So many people have those "fear foods". I was in a treatment group with a woman whose fear food was actually... fruits and veggies! She felt undeserving of health and nourishment, so she would only eat junk food and would shake at the sight of an apple on her plate. Goes to show that eating disorders aren't about food, they are about feelings. Like you, my ED thoughts are in my mind 24/7 as well. I have found this sight to be really wonderful in the fact that it's based on health, not getting skinny or restricting (although when people go on these month long water fasts and such I think "how is this different from anorexia?")

[bunnybunny]

(although when people go on these month long water fasts and such I think "how is this different from anorexia?")

I always wonder about that too. Same with colonics and bulimia.

[barose]

Isn't eating SAD an eating disorder in itself?!

I would consider it a poor choice, not an illness. Sure there are very strong food addictions in the SAD world: sugar, refined carbs, soy, corn and other highly addictive substances, but not an per se.

[NetKaPet]

Lalakis
I think you've brought up a great point and some of the responses are quite dismissive. If you sift through some posts on the site, you will see that many people here have had eating disorders. That isn't a coincidence. It's very restrictive eating, because like it or not (REvell) most of us have not come from eating fruits vegetables or nuts for the last 20, 30, 40, maybe 50 years. We live in a fast food nation, so it takes time to get to know how long these things take to make. Obviously, you are going to lose weight if you have to soak a cup of nuts before you're "supposed" to eat them! I also think that not everyone does everything 100% for the health of their body, mind and spirit. Perhaps some raw foodists aren't environmentally friendly, or smoke, or just aren't nice people..... I don't think perfection should be the focus. If I was in another country and offered some food they made, knowing that it would be the epitome of cultural ethnocentricism to say no, I'll just have my sprouted nuts, thanks, or bananna....... I mean, to me that's a whole new extreme that isn't any better. If you feel more stable, more sane, more healthy and happy with 80% raw, or whatever the number is, then that is the space you should be in. Maybe just for today..... maybe not....you know your body and mind better than anyone on an Internet blog. You know when your habits and your intentions and your goals are crossing the boundary toward unhealthy....

Okay, this is how I wish I could write. This is just a splendid answer. Thanks for the question. Thanks for this post.

I might add (I'm going a bit off in another direction) that I've questioned my acupuncturist/chiropractor as to raw living. And her response was that it doesn't follow with TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) thinking. That the balance is not there. Hot foods, cold foods. And she reminded me to make sure that we (my daughter and I) receive enough iron. Now, I'm also going to question a nutritionist that I used to see a few years back and get his opinion on raw. Not that what they say will sway me one way or another, just that it's good to get opinions from those I respect.

And to the original poster, I really liked that you responded to your mother who felt you might be getting too thin. Our families, like it or not, usually see things and speak about (!) them when others are afraid to say something. And that's really a good thing ... your respect I mean. (Can you tell I'm a mom?)

[dreamrawalwz]

Okay, this is how I wish I could write. This is just a splendid answer. Thanks for the question. Thanks for this post.

I might add (I'm going a bit off in another direction) that I've questioned my acupuncturist/chiropractor as to raw living. And her response was that it doesn't follow with TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) thinking. That the balance is not there. Hot foods, cold foods. And she reminded me to make sure that we (my daughter and I) receive enough iron. Now, I'm also going to question a nutritionist that I used to see a few years back and get his opinion on raw. Not that what they say will sway me one way or another, just that it's good to get opinions from those I respect.

And to the original poster, I really liked that you responded to your mother who felt you might be getting too thin. Our families, like it or not, usually see things and speak about (!) them when others are afraid to say something. And that's really a good thing ... your respect I mean. (Can you tell I'm a mom?)

I don't know your friend, but just remember that most nutritionists are just taught by a book school book. One that hasn't been updated. One issued by the government and their food pyramid. I would not be surprised if a nutritionist told you being 100% raw is not healthy. Just keep that in mind :)

[dreamrawalwz]

No offense taken at all. So many people have those "fear foods". I was in a treatment group with a woman whose fear food was actually... fruits and veggies! She felt undeserving of health and nourishment, so she would only eat junk food and would shake at the sight of an apple on her plate. Goes to show that eating disorders aren't about food, they are about feelings. Like you, my ED thoughts are in my mind 24/7 as well. I have found this sight to be really wonderful in the fact that it's based on health, not getting skinny or restricting (although when people go on these month long water fasts and such I think "how is this different from anorexia?")

I understand what that girl was thinking. During mostly the winter months when I tend to get more depressed and fall off raw and back into the bulimia most of it IS self-punishment. That I don't deserve to eat healthy or raw. Basically the thought is "I suck anyway, waht's the point!? I don't deserve to be healthy. I want to punish my body...." Also, deep into the anorexia I wouldn't eat any fruit. I never was one to be afraid of carbs, just calories. Now almost all I eat is fruit :)

[lalakis]

Okay...

A raw food diet is not a form of disordered eating, and neither is SAD. Disordered eating is not exactly WHAT you are eating but why and how. Some people are obsessively ritualistic with their meals, some stuff themselves to the point of feeling sick just to fill an emotional void. Some starve themselves to practice "self control" when the rest of life feels a bit out of control for them. This is disoredered eating.

I am 5'5" and 3 years ago lay in the ER at 76 pounds. I was a compulsive overeater (eating out of emotion and not hunger) and then bulllimic, then anorexic. I entered and exited several treatment centers in NY and Florida until finally finding a full time addiction facility, where it took me 8 months to complete a 4 week program because I kept relapsing. One year ago I relapsed again down to 88 pounds. With more treatment, I gained weight and now am 108 lbs.

When I heard of the raw food lifestyle I thought it would be a way for me to apologize, in a way, for mistreating my body all those years. I would give it live, whole foods (not diet this and sugar free that) and learn to listen and trust it again. I admit also that the disordered side of my brain found the message "eat all the raw food you want and not get fat" intriguing.

At first I felt great, excited, energized. Then I got scared. I have worked soooo long and sooo hard to not have "food rules", to not label any foods as good nor bad...and here, suddenly, I learned that all of the so-called healthy foods that I ate to save my life are now "deadly"?! There were so many "questionable" items like almonds and larabars. I felt frustrated and a bit nervous that I could be triggered to fall into a restrictive way of eating again and un-do all of the work I went through in rehab. Not only that, but my family (who were practically planning my funeral not so long ago) feared that they would re-live the nightmare all over again when I told them I won't eat cooked veggies anymore.

Well, I have relapsed, but this time I have fallen into purging again. When I go off the raw food wagon and eat SAD I beat myself up so badly that I purge. This has caused me to gain weight, which makes me feel even more miserable.

I'm sad and disappointed, scared but still hopeful. I want to be a part of the raw food community but the demons of my past overpower me sometimes.

My point is, I understand. I strongly believe in a raw food lifestyle and I do not feel that it can be the cause of an eating disorder, for it is a mental illness and therefore caused by our mind, not our diet. It has triggered a relapse for ME because I was not prepared to let go of my "safe" foods, the foods that got me to a healthy weight again and saved my life. They were vegan, but they were still SAD.

I suppose that is why we go through emotional detoxing as well as physical when we switch to raw :) I do believe in raw, but I do believe it takes time.

Thank you so much for sharing your story...I sometimes can't believe how intolerant people are of eating disorders, I mean recovering drug addicts are embraced more warmly than recovering anorexics. The stigma is so out of control and it shouldn't be, when you look at the current state of food processing in this country.

I think that with raw, I found myself stuffing my face and feeling bloated constantly...because if I was going to keep weight on I would have to seriously eat & eat & eat and not be able to move afterward. I still could not gain. I started to feel disgusting with this big belly all the time but it was so crazy because I knew I was thinner than ever. Usually when women think "omg my stomach is HUGE!" it makes them assume they are fat. I just felt so screwed up in the head because there was no weight gain to match the amount of food I was eating. Like I was running uphill. Psychologically it was distressing....I was starting to have food issues...always battling weight loss via food and not winning.

I am so happy this lifestyle is working for you, and that you are healthy. Bless you.

[lalakis]

My exact thoughts! Its not that we want to eat sugar, meat and so forth (my diet was VERY strict prior to going raw anyway), its the "small things". Olives in the salad, vinegratte, mustard and so on can be alienating. Geeze Louise not everyone ate out in out SAD prior to going raw. Why do we have to go to such extremes here and assume everyone was a regular at the drive through before we saw the light of raw?

YES! I didn't eat SAD before going 100% raw. I ate really well! The only questionable things I ate were soy products and hummus. NOT typical SAD!

I look back to myself denying olives and salad dressings and I think "good lord how could I have become so neurotic?!?!??!" That's just me though. I was 100% and honestly the condiments never made a difference as far as how I felt.

[lalakis]

I always wonder about that too. Same with colonics and bulimia.

same here..

while i was still 100% my yoga trainer said something to me about me needing to put on some weight before being ready to really take my training to the next level, that i needed to gain some muscle mass. i couldnt look like a stringbean, i had to get stronger. so he tried counseling me and figuring out what my dasha is and how i should eat according to that. surprisingly, my dasha tells me to eat high raw! ha....but to include some things i wasnt getting before.

but anyway, this same teacher just came off of a 21 day juice fast...and he definitely lost some weight. throughout the entire process i was thinking to myself, "and you have questioned ME about MY eating habits?" i have never fasted before. he actually asked me if i have ever had an eating disorder when we first started training. i just hate the double standard here.

[lalakis]

And to the original poster, I really liked that you responded to your mother who felt you might be getting too thin. Our families, like it or not, usually see things and speak about (!) them when others are afraid to say something. And that's really a good thing ... your respect I mean. (Can you tell I'm a mom?)

That's what hurt me actually. That was what 'woke me up' to how thin I got. I didnt really see it before. I felt wonderful 100% raw, so much energy, at ease with things. However I did notice that I wasnt quite as physically strong as normal. My boyfriend assured me that I was fine, that he didn't think I looked unhealthy, my friends were vague and said I looked thinner but not bad....but my mom just straight up told me that my arms were looking gross. I dont want to hurt her or make her concerned. Then she told me that she had been noticing it for a while at that point. It jabbed at my heart!

[lalakis]

So I don't care if people start raw with eating disorders because the health they will inevitably feel, I believe will strenghthen their minds and lead them onto a path of health.

I also think in this messed up world everyone has an eating disorder unless you are lucky enough to be raised in a family which doesn't add emotions onto food etc...


I agree with you on both of those points especially! I can see how being raw would allow someone's mind to realize that it's okay to eat, that it's a wonderful thing, nothing to be afraid of. That being fit and healthy is more important than any vanity-inspiried diet.

I think there is so much misinformation about the foods we eat, I feel like if everyone was high raw the diet industry would be forced out of business, and healthcare coverage wouldnt be an issue. People wouldnt be constantly battling weight issues due to the foods they eat. Relationships with food have become so unhealthy since our way of processing it has become unhealthy.

[elfinbaby]

I'm reading this with great interest. I don't have an eating disorder but I seem to have become more weight conscious since becoming raw. I did a 16 MC to kick off my first raw attempt I was thin. I like the way it felt and I loved the energy I had. I gained back about 5 lbs. and was fine with that. Still felt great. But now I've been going back and forth between SAD and raw for a year and it's wearing me down.

My dh comments on how many cleanses, fasts, etc. I do. I don't find it excessive esp. cleanses like a green smoothie cleanse. I get more nutrition than I do when I eat solids! And I get totally addicted to that rush of energy on the 4-5th day.

I don't know.

Nobody gives me a hard time - friends, family, etc. I don't look unhealthy or too thin. Going out, I blend in just fine. I guess our friends really do go out to eat to socialize (well, they love the wine and food, too) so nobody gives a hoot what I'm not eating.

Raw food has made me more aware of how different foods make me feel and look. I mean, come on, tell me that soft skin you have is not addicting?? I see so much potential in myself.

Again, I don't know.

Sometimes I think I could survive on smoothies and fruit. I just feel better when I do it that way.

I'm following this thread. I feel like I'm focusing way too much on my food and weight and, right now, I'm experiencing the most stressful time of my life. It's not a good recipe.

April

[dreamrawalwz]

Fasting and colonics I believe can be used in non-disordered ways and reasons. The are a form of cleansing and when people who do not had disordered eating use those meathods I truely believe they're using it for cleansing purposes. Someone with an eating disorder in the past or present uses these methods you always have to wonder and question. I know every time I fast or say I'm trying I'm sure some on this site read that and think it's the ED talking and using the fast as a quick method to lose weight. That may be partially true, but there IS a healthy side of me that is using the fasting to help heal my body quicker.

[bunnybunny]

I just think some people do unnecessary fasts and cleanses that may indicate some disordered eating or disordered thinking that they don't want to admit.

Just my 2 cents.

[Ariannah]

i was wondering what everyone's thoughts were about the raw food movement just being an excuse to carry out disordered eating habits...

i know that from my experience, it started to feel as though the restrictions were extreme. i felt embaressed to eat with other people because of all the things i wasn't able to eat. it became psychologically distressing at times, feeling isolated.

but also, in my experience, i started out skinny already. i have dealt with "you're too skinny! eat something!" comments for my entire life. so i suppose it's different compared to someone who is overweight and wanting to become a raw foodist.

i just wonder if the benefits of being 100% raw physically outweigh the psychological negative impacts. not to say that everyone should eat burgers and fries for fear of not fitting in with friends and family, but for ME i feel one thousand times better since not being so extreme. i feel normal again.

does anyone struggle with feeling like raw foodism can easily develop into an eating disorder? and what is the definition of "eating disorder"? could veganism be classified in this category too? i ask myself these questions constantly. just wondering what everyone's thoughts were. it's a hard thing to define since much of our food supply is chemically altered and processed and just not even FOOD anymore. where is the disorder?
I always wondered about that too. If any "medical people" have any cause to be involved (they don't, I stopped seeing my doctor as soon as she mentioned "mandatory mammograms and pap smears"), I have very little defense, as there was a time when I had a literal eating disorder (bulimia), and the criterions for anorexia etc, are similar to what may be exhibited by a raw foodist! Um, yah, rejects whole "food groups", embarks on an extreme way of eating, avoids eating in front of others, avoids social situations and public events which involve eating, claims to be a vegetarian .... blah blah blah. Our society is so screwed up, and it's documented in the DSM-iv LOL

I'm overweight though, so I have a LOT of time to "get away" with it. Weight, schmeit, ... I just want my health, and to eat what I freaking want haha!

[bunnybunny]

I don't understand why people here are so against mammograms and colonoscopies and things of that sort. Especially those who are so willing to do these colon cleanses to themselves. Maybe I'm just naive.

[barose]

So I don't care if people start raw with eating disorders because the health they will inevitably feel, I believe will strenghthen their minds and lead them onto a path of health.

I also think in this messed up world everyone has an eating disorder unless you are lucky enough to be raised in a family which doesn't add emotions onto food etc...

I think its rare to find a family who only "eat to live". Emotions and food isn't just a SAD thing, but something that is common in many different cultures and religions, lifestyles and so on. Happiness, celebratory, sadness, grief, etc is a reason to eat. We eat when someone is born, we eat when they die.

I personally don't think raw is a cure for eating disorders. There are too many things (food) people can be neurotic about--I've even seen it here: nuts, seeds, oils, avocados. People still feel the need to count calories and restrict, restrict, restrict. This alone doesnt mean they have an eating disorder, but for someone who already had a problem prior to raw, its to easy to continue those same habits.

[lalakis]

I'm reading this with great interest. I don't have an eating disorder but I seem to have become more weight conscious since becoming raw. I did a 16 MC to kick off my first raw attempt I was thin. I like the way it felt and I loved the energy I had. I gained back about 5 lbs. and was fine with that. Still felt great. But now I've been going back and forth between SAD and raw for a year and it's wearing me down.

My dh comments on how many cleanses, fasts, etc. I do. I don't find it excessive esp. cleanses like a green smoothie cleanse. I get more nutrition than I do when I eat solids! And I get totally addicted to that rush of energy on the 4-5th day.

I don't know.

Nobody gives me a hard time - friends, family, etc. I don't look unhealthy or too thin. Going out, I blend in just fine. I guess our friends really do go out to eat to socialize (well, they love the wine and food, too) so nobody gives a hoot what I'm not eating.

Raw food has made me more aware of how different foods make me feel and look. I mean, come on, tell me that soft skin you have is not addicting?? I see so much potential in myself.

Again, I don't know.

Sometimes I think I could survive on smoothies and fruit. I just feel better when I do it that way.

I'm following this thread. I feel like I'm focusing way too much on my food and weight and, right now, I'm experiencing the most stressful time of my life. It's not a good recipe.

April

I have become much more aware of myself, aware of my movements and my way of walking. But I also have gotten deeply involved with yoga too, which makes one EXTREMELY aware of the body. I guess I started looking at myself without any distorted view, and thought, wow I have gotten THIN on raw. But it sucks because like you said, I find it easy to be 100%! I enjoy it...I feel good...food tastes better that way...more energy. I too could live off of fruit.

I am in the process of solidifying my own personal view on the subject of what is classified as disordered eating. I am trying to take into account BMI, but it's difficult because I dont trust most of what is put out there for public consumption. Take the food pyramid for example, in my opinion that whole set-up is WRONG. So who's to say that BMI isnt also totally off? According to some people, having a BMI under 16 means you should be sick and unable to do much. However I was soaring through my yoga classes everyday with energy to spare for work and play. I am just very confused as to what to trust, trying to learn from personal experience rather than the standard info that is given to us.

It's kind of like this for example; I waited on a private party of about 13 Johns Hopkins doctors not too long ago. They all ate meat, all ate butter, all drank alcohol (and no, not just wine). And these are well-respected persons of influence.....their opinion on what is healthy would have more impact than my personal opinion if someone wanted to be counseled on nutrition......these are the people telling us what to eat....who to trust? I am trusting myself.

[lalakis]

I always wondered about that too. If any "medical people" have any cause to be involved (they don't, I stopped seeing my doctor as soon as she mentioned "mandatory mammograms and pap smears"), I have very little defense, as there was a time when I had a literal eating disorder (bulimia), and the criterions for anorexia etc, are similar to what may be exhibited by a raw foodist! Um, yah, rejects whole "food groups", embarks on an extreme way of eating, avoids eating in front of others, avoids social situations and public events which involve eating, claims to be a vegetarian .... blah blah blah. Our society is so screwed up, and it's documented in the DSM-iv LOL

I'm overweight though, so I have a LOT of time to "get away" with it. Weight, schmeit, ... I just want my health, and to eat what I freaking want haha!

yes, reading the list of symptoms for anorexia was a bit unnerving......ummm as a raw foodist you pretty much show ALL of the signs to friends and family!

[bunnybunny]

It's kind of like this for example; I waited on a private party of about 13 Johns Hopkins doctors not too long ago. They all ate meat, all ate butter, all drank alcohol (and no, not just wine). And these are well-respected persons of influence.....their opinion on what is healthy would have more impact than my personal opinion if someone wanted to be counseled on nutrition......these are the people telling us what to eat....who to trust? I am trusting myself.

I also don't think it's fair to lump all (or even most) doctors into one category. Like you said, this was just an example. It doesn't mean that those doctors indulge in meat, butter, and alcohol all the time. I am trusting--but cautious--of most doctors I have seen. My mother recently saw her cardiologist at a restaurant and he was eating a piece of steak. But who are we to judge these people? He can still be healthy and have a piece of steak every once in a while. While you or I might not find that that works for us, it doesn't mean we shouldn't trust people who choose to eat that way.

[dextera3]

This is a good thread. I went 100% raw for several weeks, and decided that I was not becoming a heathier person, I was becoming very obssive, compulsive, and all I ever thought and worried about was food. That was not my idea of health and balance.

Now, for the past 6 months I have been eating at least 85% raw, and leaving some room for other healthy food choices, and some treats as I see fit. Some days I will even eat 100% raw if I feel like it. I feel so much healthier this way! :)

[Anastasia Alston]

I have absolutely zip, zero, zilch experience with eating disorders. I don't think I'd recognize one if it came up & bit me! :o That said, I eat 100% raw because like Lalakis said I find it incredibly easy to do so. I like the way I feel, I like everything about it.

Usually I can't stand thinking about food , but find myself happily browsing recipies & geeking out in the housewares section of Target & needing to be dragged away from the specialty cooking shops! <lol> I don't actually think about eating much, but I am absolutely enamored of the idea of preparing food for other people - so long as I don't have to cook anything, especially meat or dairy. I've even been known to give away my meals to people who wanted to try what I was eating & enjoyed it. Is this some kind of disorder? Dunno. Like I said, I wouldn't know one if I saw it. I do know I am happy this way - happier than I've ever been in my life! :p I not only want to do a happy dance all the time, I actually have the energy to do so!

Then again, I have yet to actually figure out why I went raw in the first place. Still have no idea. ::shrug:: It seemed to me as natural as breathing; one day I woke up after having raw intrude upon my consciousness & decided that I would eat nothing cooked ever again. There have been a few emotional issues on the part of family members having to rearrange the way they relate to me where food is concerned & sure I've been a little irritable during some of the detox periods I've gone through, but nothing big. As a family, we've simply changed what we think/expect of eachother around food. I have lost weight (about 25 lbs. so far) but it really never occurs to me until someone else mentions it! <lol>

Anyway, I'm rambling so I'll clam up for now! :D

Stasi

[Courtney]

I have noticed that people are scared of anything that, to them, is not normal. To them normal is eating McDonalds and junk food. Plus, us eating raw and doing what is right for our bodies brings out their insecurities about themselves and can bring out their jealousy because they know they can't possible follow this way of life. So they want to scare us or ridicule us so we will stop eating this way so they don't feel so bad about themselves.

Yep, Rozy. I think you're right. They're threatened, scared, and jealous.

Courtney

[elfinbaby]

As far as the dr.'s eating meat, butter, etc. - of course, it's not fair to lump them all in the same category. It's not fair to lump any group together. However, the evidence is against them. For instance, the evidence that eating animal products causes disease is irrefutable. Has been for decades. Thanks to the media, lobbyists and the ability to distract and confuse the American public people are buying the idea that they should "just cut down" on their animal intake and fried foods.

Correct me if I'm wrong - but drs. don't even have to take a nutrition course to graduate. I could be wrong but that was the last info I came across. This does not bode well for the med. establishment. Med. is big business. There are good drs. out there - no question about it. And I appreciate them and they stand out b/c, ime, there's a majority out there that resists vegetarianism, veganism, and esp. a raw foods diet which are proving time and time again in research studies to be a healthier way of eating and a way to avoid alot of diseases.

I recently got my family (who eats a down home southern cooking diet) into green smoothies. Everyone is feeling great so a family friend started drinking them. My mom said the woman is literally glowing and she's not raw. She's just added smoothies. Anyhoo, her dh told the dr. (who is tremendously overweight and unhealthy) that his wife was drinking smoothies and the dr. became very concerned. He told the dh that he needs to make sure she only drinks 2 cups a day b/c that was plenty!! I should also add that the wife does have food issues so the dr. may be making sure she's still eating and not living on blended celery. HOWEVER, she's getting more nutrition than she probably has in her life and is freaking glowing. Frankly I can live on green smoothies and fruit for an extended period of time and love it. I don't really have any weight to lose and usually don't lose any when I do a smoothie "cleanse." The logic of the dr. is fear based to me.

April

[Green Life]

I also don't think it's fair to lump all (or even most) doctors into one category. Like you said, this was just an example. It doesn't mean that those doctors indulge in meat, butter, and alcohol all the time. I am trusting--but cautious--of most doctors I have seen. My mother recently saw her cardiologist at a restaurant and he was eating a piece of steak. But who are we to judge these people? He can still be healthy and have a piece of steak every once in a while. While you or I might not find that that works for us, it doesn't mean we shouldn't trust people who choose to eat that way.


I agree.

Also, People, even Doctors, can KNOW how to eat properly, preach and teach and prescribe the proper way of eating to eveyone they know, yet still not do it themselves!! Just like us when we slip up and eat cooked, we KNOW that eating raw is better, but somettimes we just want to relax a little and eat cooked. I am thankful no one is constantly looking over MY
shoulder monitering everything I eat just because I tell everyone that raw is the way to eat.... It's possible to talk the talk and not walk the walk..so they don't eat healthy foods? That doesn't change the fact that they can KNOW how to eat them, KNOW how to heal with them , and just choose NOT to do it themselves, for themselves=). Doctors are only human, BTW> :)

[SharonC]

Most doctors do not know much at all about health and nutrition. They learn about disease based on symptoms and learn how to treat/manage disease with drugs and surgery. If there is anyone who does not fully understand natural health care and how it is so drastically different from the disease care system (what most doctors practice), this is a great place to start - http://www.newstarget.com/

There are a tiny minority of doctors sprinkled around the country (and growing thank goodness) who do not practice standard medical care, but they did not learn about health/nutrition in medical school, and they are not typical doctors.

Two of my favorite enlightened doctors are...

Joel Fuhrman, M.D. who actually prescribes nutrition - www.drfuhrman.com

Russell L. Blaylock, M.D. who is a retired neurosurgeon - http://www.russellblaylockmd.com/

Dr. Blaylock writes in his book, "Health and Nutrition Secrets that can save your life, "The problem is with the educational institutions which train doctors, and the American Medical Association which influences them. Medical education underwent a significant change with the discovery of various pharmaceutical drugs used to treat disease. Closely connected with this is an overwhelming faith in science and technology as a means to solve all of our problems.

...Pharmacology courses became a mainstay and biochemistry and nutrition took a back seat. Biochemistry was looked upon as nothing more than an obstacle when I was in medical school.

...I single out biochemistry because it is intimately connected with nutrition. Nutrition is a scientific discipline concerned with the ways food consumption fulfills the biochemical needs of the body. I remember that most of my fellow classmates just wanted to get through what they called "the nonsense" and move on to the clinical material. After all, they wanted to be practicing doctors, not scientists.

...During the clinical years of study, we were taught diagnosis and the treatment of disease. Not surprisingly, all of the treatment was directed towards pharmaceutical medicine and no attention was given to nutritional support or treatments. Everything we had learned in biochemistry was ignored - unless it was useful to explain the mode of action of a pharmaceutical drug.

The pharmaceutical giants saw this as a tremendous opportunity. Using their financial power, they could influence what was being taught to budding doctors. First, they made enormous grants to the medical schools. ... their money became the life-blood of the schools as well as a source of grants to professors for basic research. Who pays the piper chooses the song.

Ever looking for a way to enhance their influence, pharmaceutical manufacturers began to entice doctors to participate in expensive paid vacations, either to visit the factory or give lectures and attend meeting in exotic places. In addition, they started paying doctors to conduct clinical tests of their products.

....The problem is that doctors, both academic and those in private practice, are exposed constantly to propaganda from the major pharmaceutical companies. Doctors' entire educations have been based on a belief in pharmaceutical agents to treat disease, with no consideration given to the role of nutrition.

[SharonC]

I recently got my family (who eats a down home southern cooking diet) into green smoothies. Everyone is feeling great so a family friend started drinking them. My mom said the woman is literally glowing and she's not raw. She's just added smoothies. Anyhoo, her dh told the dr. (who is tremendously overweight and unhealthy) that his wife was drinking smoothies and the dr. became very concerned. He told the dh that he needs to make sure she only drinks 2 cups a day b/c that was plenty!! I should also add that the wife does have food issues so the dr. may be making sure she's still eating and not living on blended celery. HOWEVER, she's getting more nutrition than she probably has in her life and is freaking glowing. Frankly I can live on green smoothies and fruit for an extended period of time and love it. I don't really have any weight to lose and usually don't lose any when I do a smoothie "cleanse." The logic of the dr. is fear based to me.April

I have heard so many similar stories. My Mom told her doctor that she was eating more raw fruits and vegetables. His comments to her were that she should be very careful because she could get a bacteria from salad bars and that she would still need drugs at her age. She has not been back, and she does not need drugs!

My sister-in-law is a pharmacist, and believes that much of it is fear.
Great quote from Robert Mendelsohn, M.D....

"Medical students are further softened up by being maliciously fatigued. The way to weaken a person’s will in order to mold him to suit your purposes is to make him work hard, especially at night, and never give him a chance to recover. You teach the rat to race. The result is a person too weak to resist the most debilitating instrument medical school uses on its students: fear.
If I had to characterize doctors, I would say their major psychological attribute is fear. They have a drive to achieve security-plus that’s never satisfied because of all the fear that’s drummed into them in medical school: fear of failure, fear of missing a diagnosis, fear of malpractice, fear of remarks by their peers, fear that they’ll have to find honest work. There was a movie some time ago that opened with a marathon dance contest. After a certain length of time all the contestants were eliminated except one. Everybody had to fail except the winner. That’s what medical school has become. Since everybody can’t win, everybody suffers from a loss of self-esteem. Everybody comes out of medical school feeling bad.
Doctors are given one reward for swallowing the fear pill so willingly and for sacrificing the healing instincts and human emotions that might help their practice: arrogance. To hide their fear, they’re taught to adopt the authoritarian attitude and demeanor of their professors. From: 'Confessions of a Medical Heretic'
http://www.whale.to/v/mendelsohn.html