Six cavities while on raw

[monkeyboy]

Hi Everyone,

I went to the dentist yesterday. I have six cavities. I've never had a cavity. I'm 39 years old. Is my diet a reason for this?

I tend to graze on food now that I'm raw. I don't brush after every snack or small meal.

Dude......I love my teeth.

Is raw the reason why decay has entered my life?


HELP!!!!!!!!!!!


That too cool M.B. guy

[kirk]

Monkeyboy,

Sorry to hear about your cavities. Raw eating really has little to do with it other than maybe a loss of enamel from a lack of calcium and other minerals used by the body to strengthen teeth. As I understand it, there are three main factors involved in developing a cavity. There must be certain types of bacteria present in the mouth (the kind that are present in plaque), there must be simple sugars preasent for the bacteria to feed on, and the tooth surface must be in a weakened state. If you are permiting a plaque build-up than the acids produced by the bacteria in the plaque will cause the enalmal to break down.

My advice---do all you can to keep your teeth and avoid being as toothless as I am. One of the main reasons that I lost my teeth is not brushing to remove the plaque.

Hope that helped some.....kirk

[ConsciousCuisine]

Many people have dental issues arise while living Raw...I encourage you to read up on it to learn about others who have went through this and how they handled it. A few years ago, during my first 4 months of being raw, I was plagued with terrible pain and eventually had to have a tooth pulled. When we detox, the teeth are strongly affected; the teeth are the mirror of our health status in many ways. You are "cleaning house" and your ph is changing. I suggest more enzymes and probiotics. Swish them around in your mouth to help balance things out... Good luck! I hope you didn't let them put amalgam in... :( Blessings and Be Well!

[Rawkinlocs]

Monkeyboy,

I haven't been raw for very long, but I had dental issues long before eating raw.

So far, the only problems I have are the ones that were already pre-existant.

But from what I've read, you DO need to take care that you at least rinse with water or drink water after you eat, especially fruit. Not only that but be sure to include lots of greens in your diet as the alkaline in the greens neutralizes the acid in the fruit.

Here is the link to a discussion on Shelly's Raw and Juicy discussion board that I just read last night! Take special note of what Natural Hygienist/Raw Coach, Nora Lenz had to say about this subject:
http://p090.ezboard.com/fdepoproverafrm10.showMessage?topicID=603.topic

But I've read some people who say their teeth have never been better and whiter, etc. since having gone raw while I read about others who develop problems. I like what Conscious said about our bodies "cleaning house" and sometimes teeth are affected (unfortunately).

But again, try and at least drink water after eating (and swish it around the mouth a bit too!).

OH...in the book, "Eating Without Heating" by Sergei and Valya Boutenko, here is what Sergei quoted his 83-yr. old Dentist (who is also a raw foodist!) saying, "Brush your gums hard! Brush them so hard that your toothbrush bends. Healthy gums will fight harmful bacteria and make your teeth stronger."

Sergei himself said right after that, "I am finding that eating more green leafy vegetables and drinking green juice (I drink wheat grass every day) is definitely helping my teeth."

In that chapter, prior to all that I typed above, Sergei was saying that he felt as being natural, he no longer had the need to brush. But he then noticed cavities developing and after doing some research, discovered that he needs to rinse his mouth after eating fruit, especially dried fruit (he actually brushes after eating dried fruit).

Hope this helps and that your teeth do better!

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi all,

Thanks for this thread. And thanks to Rawkinlocs for the link with Nora's post.

I use to have at least 1 cavity everytime I went to the dentist. Due to thyroid disease I was told to avoid flouride. I have removed all flouride in my diet (water, toothpaste, etc), and for 4 years I never had a cavity. As my raw food increased, I noticed a tooth chipped. Then I noticed a weak spot in one of my front toothes that looked like a cavity. I went in and sure enough, I had 6 cavities in my front teeth. Never had any cavities in my front teeth before (I'm 50 years old) . . . I also had been eating more citrus fruits. I'll cut back on them now!!!! I'll also try to increase my greens . . . this is a tough area for me. And celery???? Guess I'll have to figure out a way to start liking it. So many people speak about celery and the benefits of it. I guess it's a matter of trying it a number of times until my taste for it adjusts (like it has for other foods).

<>< Helen of Tennessee

[monkeyboy]

Hi everyone,

Well, l I told my dentist about the raw diet after I found out about the cavities. She knew what I was talking about, but didn't seem to think it was about my diet. Diet can effect teeth she said, but she stressed brushing and flossing to combat my problem.


I always felt I did a good job with my teeth ,but for some reason why now after 9 months raw I've developed cavities. As I said in my first post these are the first cavities for me in my life.


I'll poke around and do some more research.


Peace,

M.B.

[Curtis]

Thank you for the link Raw very informative! :)

[smasty]

This really concerns me!!! I just don't understand why a raw food diet would cause cavities, but I've read bits and pieces here and there about this. It makes me worried. I don't want any more cavities! What are we doing wrong?

[Rawkinlocs]

This really concerns me!!! I just don't understand why a raw food diet would cause cavities, but I've read bits and pieces here and there about this. It makes me worried. I don't want any more cavities! What are we doing wrong?


Smasty, try not to worry. I honestly think (from reading and from just really giving it a lot of thought) that our best bet to fight dental problems lies in the greens. After all, they ARE our best source of (usable) calcium! Many of us just don't like a lot of greens and would rather eat more fruit, nuts and dehydrated goodies than anything else. My own journal speaks volumes of that!

Also that rinsing thing. We are eating a lot of sugar when we eat fruit and it's not BAD sugar, but still sugar and we need to be sure to rinse or drink water after eating fruit, esp. dried fruit. How many of us really consciously do that? I know that I, for one, do not...I am trying to make a conscious effort to do so now, though.

I mean, not all raw fooders go through this dental thing so we can't say it's the raw diet. There are just things we have to do and be more dilligent about doing, that's all.

Helen, Curtis et al, you're welcome! :)

[monkeyboy]

Rawkinlocs,

Well said. I really enjoy your posts.


Peace,

M.B.

[Kristi]

I never had cavities until I had babies. Three after 1st kid, three after 2nd kid, I've had a couple since and the darling dentist said it's due to age....he still has all his teeth :D

[Analeah]

Hey thanks for starting this thread. I have been wondering about this myself. A week or two ago I was noticing my teeth were hurting REALLY bad. Almost to the point where breathing in and out hurt because my teeth were so sensetive. I am not sure if the problem was caused by what I was eating or because it was a form of my body detoxing? At the time I was really craving fruit, especially apples and I would sometimes eat six or seven apples at once! Well I am not sure what happened to make things change but my teeth feel really strong and healthy now. I'm not eating nearly as many apples but I still do eat a lot of fruit and I have been trying to make lots of spinach soup and other food with lots of spinach in it. I haven't been to the dentist in awhile to see if I have any cavities or not but I am not worried now (though earlier when I was having so much pain I thought for sure I had ten cavities at least!) I am curious to know if it was possible that I did in fact have one or more cavities but that possibly they have healed themselves? I would think if you are eating the right food and brushing regularly that cavities can be reversed but I just don't know? :rolleyes:

[Rawkinlocs]

Rawkinlocs,

Well said. I really enjoy your posts.


Peace,

M.B.

Thanks M.B. :D

Analeah, glad to hear your teeth are feeling better. I'm feeling that sensitivity feeling right now, but it's not bad and breathing in air doesn't bother them.

But I KNOW I have been neglecting greens and eating a LOT of dehydrated sweet treats these last few days. But I'm going to start doing green juice at least once a day but I want to try for twice a day and see if that makes a difference!

I also found something very interesting. All this time I thought that lemons and oranges were acid-forming and I did a search online and viewed a few different sites that had charts showing acidic and alkaline forming foods...MANY fruits were listed as alkaline and this included oranges, lemons and limes!

Apples and bananas and a whole host of other fruits were listed as well. On the list of acidic fruits were blueberries, plums and cranberries to name a few. A lot of the acid-forming foods were most nuts (except almonds and brazil nuts), grains and lentils! Most veggies that we commonly eat in this live-it were listed as being alkaline forming.

No wonder...I've been eating a TON of this dehydrated stuff with dates, grains and nuts!

More greens it is for me!

Here's a link to one of the charts I referenced: http://www.essense-of-life.com/info/foodchart.htm

[smasty]

Thanks Rawkin!

[NWgal]

Found this reading a review from Rhio.
I have read this same type of thing else where.


A raw diet is not supposed to result in rotted teeth. This particular person made the changeover to raw as a fruitarian for a few years and though I tried to warn him, he did not listen to me. I believe that a fruitarian diet can dissolve the over acid condition of a body too fast and the acidity being released in the mouth tissues can damage the teeth. This particular person may have had weak teeth from heredity and his earlier diet. I have also met and spoken to many people who have lost their teeth on an "exclusively" fruitarian diet, and also people whose teeth become sensitive on an all fruit diet. The sensitivity may be a prelude to more serious problems with the teeth.

[Analeah]

Hmm, that's definately not too encouraging. I would be interesting to hear from any long time raw fooders around who have had problems with their teeth or have had no problems etc. I noticed my teeth starting to hurt really bad again today but I realized I had just been eating fruit and nuts and dehydrated stuff the last couple days. I really think there is a strong correlation (at least for me) between eating enough green veggies and eating too much fruit etc. I just ate some soup for dinner which had spinach, cucumber and other veggies in it and my teeth no longer hurt. Still though I wouldn't say that all raw fooders are going to get cavities or anything like that. I think it all depends on what you eat, just like when you eat cooked food too only I think eventually your teeth will become stronger on a raw food diet if you eat the right food. About the drinking water after you eat thing, I'm confused now because I thought it was best to wait at least an hour before drinking anything after you eat. Hmmm, what to do, what to do :rolleyes:

[smasty]

For me...I think what Rawkin posted really made sense. About the "stickyness" of sweet fruits and dehydrated stuff. I'm starting to rinse well now after I eat.

Frederick Patenaude writes that honey really accelerates cavities. Another one to watch for and brush or rinse after.

[ka2216]

Hi,

Definately don't eat honey. I've been raw for four years and ate some honey (raw honey) and it didn't do any good for me. Made my teeth more sensitive to fruit, especially oranges and citris foods (which I've cut out completely). And because of the citris/honey I've gotten more cavities. I've also noticed the less fruit I eat and the more greens I eat the better my teeth feel.

Wheatgrass will help a lot and kale smoothies: 1 ripe mango, 2 bananas, 1-2 cups water, 1-2 bunches of raw organic kale. Use a vitamix blender. First blend up the mango and bananas with the water until it's smooth and blended well. Next wash the kale good and cut it up into small pieces. Add the kale into the blender with the mango and banana mix.

I hope this helps:)

Katie


For me...I think what Rawkin posted really made sense. About the "stickyness" of sweet fruits and dehydrated stuff. I'm starting to rinse well now after I eat.

Frederick Patenaude writes that honey really accelerates cavities. Another one to watch for and brush or rinse after.

[greeninlosangeles]

Experiments showed, that even if sugar eaten never touches the teeth, it still gives cavities, because body fluids become too acidic(saliva too) and they do not do the job as they should.
Greens alkalize body better than anything(interestingly cuccubber is the only as alkaline fruit as grasses, even more than kale or collard greens), so they might help.
At the beggining of starting raw foods, our body gets rid of acids and other stuff, which could affect our teeth.
Eat tons of greens and rinse your mouth after foods. Hopefully I will do it too...Although my teeth are so full of fillings long time...

[karenisraw]

Monkeyboy,

I sense that your abundant sense of humour has been temporarily popped. I can hear it in your post.

Well, I am a former dental assistant and have watched many a tooth being fixed, pulled, filled, and replaced. I personally, as a raw foodist, would recommend daily flossing and brushing. I also recommend taking a magnesium suppliment and have posted a link to an article regarding magnesium and cavities. http://www.mgwater.com/rod10.shtml.

I just went to the dentist a few days ago and voila!. No cavities. I have been 97% raw for 3 months. I luckily for my had my hygienist recommend that I have all of my amalgums removed and replaced by resin fillings. Yeah.

I believe that it is possible that you may have a magnesium deficiency and the reason I say this is because there is apparently a deficiency in minerals in fresh fruits and especially vegetables due to a depletion in minerals in soil from over farming land. I also understand that a HUGE (80-95% I have heard) percentage of the population has a magnesium deficiency.

Calcium and magnesium work together to form strong bones and teeth. You do not hear much about it, but it is true. You need both.

Personally, my teeth feel and look great, and I have not had any problems other than my amalgums are old and making a crack in some of my teeth.

I will continue to look for answers for you, but please make sure you brush and floss at least once a day. It could also be just that you are getting older and most people get them eventually. I personally would at least brush if even to stimulate the gums. Every other part of your body likes to be stimulated and benefits from it don't they?

Good luck, I will return with more info later...P.S. My raw vegan doctor is also a dentist so I will ask him when he returns in mid-april. And yes, he does believe in taking vitamin and mineral suppliments. Metagenics is a good brand.

EDIT - here s an article from our friend Frederick Patenaude regarding is problems with increased cavities on raw and how he fixed it.http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/rightorraw.html....be back with more info...

Oh, Also, I swish my probiotics around in my mouth when I take them. I take a powder culture that you mix with water. I would think it ehemm, kills the bacteria.

EDIT - ....there, I am done brushing my teeth..... here is a GREAT!! article about raw foods diets and the regeneration of tooth enamel, especially when particular care is taken to ingest enough vitamins, minerals and trace minerals (note the positive results with magenesium). I am going to go pick up some trace minerals from my raw vegan doctor's store where he sells them. You put drops of it in water. http://www.rawpaleodiet.org/dental-regeneration-1.html



k
:)

[tiger-88]

Great thread !!!!!!!!!! I still got all 32 teeth in my mouth ( yep all 32 ) and I hope to keepem a lot longer too. I guess you could call me a fruitarian but I do eat lots of nuts ( all amounds ) and seeds. And thanks to a few nice ladies on this board filled me in on the need for greens in my diet I have been eating a salad every other day. Well anyway I went to my dentist for my 6 mouth cleaning last week and she keep bragging on my teeth. I told her about my diet and she had heard of fruit diets hurting teeth. So I guess the calcium in the amounds and the greens plus I do a lot of brushing is the key to keeping your teeth healthy on a raw diet. Plus I do a spoon full of honey every night and right after I rinse my mouth out with water while I have some honey still in because honey kills bacteria ! So this way is working for me but the next visit to the dentist if it changes I'll change to a lot more greens and cut the fruit down ! Thanks
Tim

[jujube]

I have been raw for 3 years, and the first year my teeth were fine, and then BAM- 12 cavities in one visit. I had never ever had teeth problems before.

Fruit gets a lot of flack for causing cavities, but I think nuts and seeds are even worse because they get stuck in your teeth so easily. At least you can rinse off the fruit sugar with water or light brushing... but nuts, seeds, flax crackers, etc. need to be flossed away, or else they're just sitting on your teeth all day, feeding the bacteria.

Lack of greens can definitely be a problem too... they are sooo important!

Also, make sure you're not just eating constantly all day. Or sipping smoothies or juices for long periods of time. Your saliva acidifies every time you eat, so you should give it enough time between meals to alkalize... which will help your teeth re-mineralize.

[ljannise]

Dear MonkeyBoy:

GO BACK TO BRUSHING YOUR TEETH- it would be a good idea to grab a toothbrush & start again.

It wasnt the Raw diet, it was the life of not brushing.

[raeannasun]

M.B.'s post was from 2004. Hopefully his teeth are still there!

[misslinda]

Hee hee ..........me too I was like WOW this is the first time he cried wolf but yeah, 2 years ago! :D

MB, how are your pearly whites? Cavaties?



Cheers,
;)

[monkeyboy]

Hi Everyone,


Let's remember this thread was from 2004!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How did you ever find it?

I went to the dentist last month.(Feb. 2006)

No cavities in over a year and still raw.

Misslinda...what do you mean I'm crying wolf? Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!!!!!



Peace,

M.B.

[misslinda]

LOL, For a second there I thought it was a current thread from 2006.....kinda relished in your *panic* mode BUT reality ruined it :D

so what did you end up doing to rid the cavaties? :confused:

:p

[monkeyboy]

Hi Everyone,

I really didn't do anything.

I brushed a bit more and flossed.

No real method to prevent cavities.

I did stop eating most fruits though.


Peace,

M.B.

[Tirza]

I had a friend who was so obsessive about cleanliness that she brushed the enamel right off her teeth. A mother in her 40's! She would brush HARD for about 30-40 minutes at a time! (OCD, anyone?) She now has to deal with a lot of sensitivity to hot and cold, plus a lot of cavities that started coming very fast then.

I had all my teeth removed when I was 16 because they were full of cavities, caused me no end of pain and their appearance was hindering me as a model. (As well as my social life) They were crooked too, but they couldn't put braces on them because the teeth were too soft and they would have just chipped off. I could literally chew the chips of tooth when they would come off. I had so many fillings that had to be replaced because the tooth around them would crumble.

Why would this happen? I was naturally slim, and it was not because I was depriving myself of nutrition. I had a very healthy appetite but burned it off with very active sports. We ate the regular SAD diet, with perhaps more emphasis on nutrition than most. We were not eating the nosh that people do these days, like soda pop and candy. That was reserved for special occasions. I brushed lots.

My mother had very soft teeth too and got dentures in her 20's. I used to think that it was because she must have been malnourished during the war, but so was my father and neither he nor my brothers had the same problem. Whatever the cause, there it was - I had full dentures at 16 going into Grade 12.

A few sores and inconveniences since then have never compared to the tooth aches I used to get. Talk about head explosion! To tell you the truth, I have NEVER regretted it. Even when all my kids had braces and I saw how nicely their teeth straightened out. I guess they inherited their father's strong teeth. He is 61 and they are just starting to cave on him now and he has some caps. If he would have gotten braces too and smoothed out some little hidden spots for acid to work in, he would have no problems now.

So you do what you can, but there are a lot of factors to consider why a person gets cavities.

[Lay-Lay]

I had 7 visible cavities before starting 100% raw and now I only have 3 visible ones. I have never had many cavities until the past couple years.

[livingatthetop]

when we eat a raw food diet which is mostly carbohydrates;the carbs tend to turn into sugar and decay on our teeth . I would suggest a water rinse out and then a tooth pick if not at home to help prevent futher tooth decay.

Sincerely Shernell

[smasty]

It's so funny to see this post get recycled from so long ago! I was so excited because I thought maybe Kirk was back.

Anyway, went to dentist 6 months ago and had a cavity. I haven't had a cavity in 30 years. Ugh.

[star1919]

Hi... I appreciate this thread... helps me to know to put more of an emphasis on greens... and to swish my mouth with water after eating more consistently

There are a few things I do that I think help with having healthy teeth etc.

*Once a week I brush my teeth with a mixture of salt and soda (that I mix)followed by a good long swish of hydrogen peroxide (don't swallow) ... it is just the inexpensive kind in a brown bottle in any grocery

*I've read that it is important to rinse your mouth with water after you eat... I will be more consistent with that... when I can't brush

*There is a great product called Hydro Floss... it is an ionic oral irrigator... the ionic action is great for removing plaque etc. It has a magnetic quality that makes it work... I've used one a fairly long time and I am such a believer in them... Other oral irrigators aren't the same... the ionic is the key... I use it nightly

I bought one a couple of years ago on Ebay... I bet they are sold other places on the internet too...

[juliebove]

Hmmm... I didn't have any cavities this last time but will need 5 or 6 crowns. I'm really not sure of the number he said because all I could think about was dollar signs flashing before my eyes. He said my teeth were cracking and he couldn't figure out why unless perhaps I was grinding my teeth! Now I do have a lot of really old fillings in there that need replaced. So the cracking teeth wasn't the entire problem. I did mention the raw diet and he said that wouldn't be causing my problems.

[greeninloanageles1]

Raw diet might add to it just because it loosens toxins which are very acidic and if you don't eat bunch of greens to help the problem - it might ruin your teeth. At least that's what I think. Now I am trying to figure out if sugar or acids in fruit add to that trouble or not.

[monkeyboy]

Wow,

Another recycled post from the Monkeyboy.

I'm flattered.


Looks like another "All Monkeyboy Labor Day Weekend"

And the hits just keep on comin'....I'm Kasey Kasem!!!!



Peace,

M.B.