Alive! San Francisco

[the_lab_rat]

Edit: I wrote to the owner and he replied and explained the situation. Apparently they were having a bad night--short staffed, new waitress, car troubles so the owner couldn't be there himself, etc. He offered to make it up to us and was very nice about it over email. So, I'm not deleting my original review below, but realize it was just an off night for Alive and if you decide to go there you'll probably have a much better experience. :)


It's odd how many times I've been to Cafe Gratitude but never to Alive!. I've had their food at the farmer's market and it was great. It's gotten rave reviews. So tonight, I recommended it to a friend for her birthday dinner, and off we went. Overall, a total disappointment, and I'm feeling very guilty for ruining part of her evening.

First off, the place is tiny. Maybe 5 tables inside. Their website and flyers say nothing about reservations. We got there a little after opening, and it was full. The only space was at a larger table already occupied by 2 people. The waitress asked them if we could sit there too, and they looked at each other very uncomfortably and said "uh, yeah, I guess..." Clearly it was not ok with them, so we felt very bad for disrupting their dinner. We asked about the outdoor seating, which was advertised on the flyer as a "heated patio." The heaters didn't work and there were no lights. We sat out there anyway because it wasn't too cold/dark yet (around 5:45 pm) and well, what choice did we have? I will say that the patio was very cute, lots of plants and a beautiful plum tree.

We ordered tea & coffee, received it 10 minutes later, and didn't see the waitress again for 30 minutes. By the time she came to take our dinner orders, the 3-ounce cups we paid $3 each for were long since empty (no refills or 2nd cups offered.) Then we didn't see the waitress for 40 more minutes. We were about to climb up the tree and start eating the plums.

Dinner arrived. I got the tomato mushroom torte, my friend got the veggie noodles with almond herb sauce. Both looked great and the portions were moderate, though not generous. The problem was, the food was drowning in oil. There must have been literally 1/4 cup of olive oil on my plate. There was some salad garnish around my torte, but beneath it the entire plate was covered in a pool of oil. The torte was actually dissolving into the oil and pieces were floating away across the plate :eek: It must've been poured over the food, rather than actually used in the recipe, because the inside of the torte was perfect--no oil, not mushy. But the outside was honestly pretty gross; the oil totally overwhelmed the taste and ruined it. So I ate the inside and scraped off the outside. My friend's plate didn't fare much better. Had I known, I would've asked them to leave it off. I've been to probably 10 different raw restaurants and never have to worry because most raw places don't seem to use it (or such tiny amounts it isn't noticeable.)

I ate half my dinner and asked for the rest to-go. 30 minutes later, the waitress brought back half of my leftover portion to-go. I have no idea what happened to the other part of it, but for $15, I expect to go home with all the food I paid for :mad:

We ordered dessert--black forest cake. The waitress disappeared again. My friend got frustrated and canceled her order but told me to still get mine; I asked for mine to go in hopes of getting out of there before dark. It was cold and windy by this point. We were shivering and very uncomfortable and decided to stand in the entryway back into the restaurant (as shelter from the wind) to wait for my cake. At almost 8pm, the waitress came back and seemed annoyed that we were standing there. She gave us the bill and said "well, it might be hard to sign the receipt in the air like that, since you're not sitting down." We left her a big tip anyway, we were too cold to care at that point. On the way out, we noticed 3 of the 5 tables inside had cleared up. Nice of the waitress to mention that to us as she watched us standing up on the chairs trying to get the heat lamps to work earlier :rolleyes: And as a final letdown, the cake had what seemed like a walnut-carrot crust, which did NOT go well with the chocolate and cherries. It would be much better with an apple pie type of dessert, or mincemeat or carrot cake. The chocolate-cherry portion of the cake was very good though.

So all in all, not a great experience. I'm actually going to write a letter to the restaurant because there is no reason service should be that poor, especially for a $60 check for 2 people. The food itself was pretty good, though I like Cafe Gratitude and Cafe Soulstice better. I would still consider going back, because I think I could make it a better experience knowing what I know now, but I feel awful that it ruined my friend's birthday evening.

[RawVee]

Labrat,

You're a lot more patient than I am! I would have walked after the first 30 minutes of waiting. There's no excuse for that kind of bad service, especially in light of the fact that the place is so small, so she wasn't weeded.

Oh well. Now you know!

V

[Vegan Princess]

Bummer! I've never seen the place full. I have never been a huge fan of their entrees...I like their desserts. I usually get food to go, but ate there once with a friend...neither of us loved our food that night. I also posted a review once about their lacking portion size and to their credit, the owner contacted me and invited me back to talk about his portion sizes and gave me half off my next meal. I encourage you to write to him...I bet he will respond. I really love their cress sandwich apetizer. I occasionally order their pizzas (not on the menu anymore I think?) or other Italian dishes. But usually I stick to apetizer and dessert b/c of the price.

Cindy

[barose]

Sorry for your horrible experience!

I only went there once, alone on Thursday night (9:00PM) and the place was tiny, but they had one table left for me.

I ordered one of the noodle dishes (Korean I think) and it was not oily and the service was great. I thought the portion was large - I couldnt finish it all.

I wanted to take my DP but now I'm afraid after your experience.

Though the food was good, CG is still waaay better. We don’t mind sitting with other people at CG because of the open atmosphere, community feeling and large tables, but it would seem strange at Alive - I do agree with that.

Thanks for the heads up.

[RawTruth]

Too bad you had such a horrible experience.

I did like several things on the menu ... and found others rather bland. Definitely nothing with oil poured over it, though.

Regardless, if it'd been me, those dishes would have gone right back inside ... in my hands, not relying on the waitress. Leland is very accommodating and professional; I've no doubt that he would have remedied whatever problems there were immediately.

I didn't find the service poor, although a few servers were new and unsure of themselves. I've always sat inside, though, and made sure I got their attention. If I'd been outside and ignored, I'm afraid I'd have made a pest of myself. (Actually, I don't consider being assertive to be being a pest -- I know too many restauranteurs to think that they're not concerned with their customers' happiness. They are -- they just need to know about it).

I bet you, once brought to his attention, Leland will make reparations to you right away.

Isn't Cafe Gratitude just the best!?!?!!! Now, if they'd stop using soy lecithin in their creamy desserts, I'd be totally happy with them.

[the_lab_rat]

I am going to write a letter to Alive! about our experience there. I didn't want to write it last night because I was still kinda angry, and I want the letter to come from a more calm mind :) But thanks for all the info guys, I'll definitely write them now.

Barose: I hope our bad experience doesn't scare you from going there. I think Alive could offer a really great experience, since they're all organic and use food straight from the farmer's market. I really respect that about them. But I think we came when they were having an off night (still no excuse for it though). I'd recommend 1) sitting inside, 2) making reservations if you want to be sure, and 3) asking about the ingredients in what you plan to order.


Isn't Cafe Gratitude just the best!?!?!!! Now, if they'd stop using soy lecithin in their creamy desserts, I'd be totally happy with them.

Seriously?? Arrgh! I had no idea they used soy :( Guess I should've figured something that tastes sooo good must have something bad in it, lol :D

[Vegan Princess]

I took a dessert class through Gratitude. They use non GMO soy lecithin and about 1-2 tbsp for the whole recipe. It's in their cheesecake and whipped cream. Not sure what else. I'm willing to live with it though. In fact I just made a batch of their whipped cream tonight. Mmmm.

Cindy

[barose]

the_lab_rat - Thanks! I will continue to frequent their booths at the farmers market. We'll call ahead at the restaurant too. We do need more places like this; even if not all raw, but vegan, local with some raw items on their menu.

Vegan Princess - Do you know what the function of the SL is? You took a class?? You are so lucky:p . I will take a class from them next time they offer it. Did you take food home with you??

[Vegan Princess]

The soy lecithin helps things thicken up. So it makes the whipped cream thick and "whipped". They use irish mosh in other recipes to acomplish the same thing...but I think the taste of irish moss would be too strong for delicate recipes.

I highly reccomend the class! I took one of the rare ones taught at night. It was at their main kitchen where they make everything for the 4 restaurants. I wanted to move in and live there! It was great. In 3 hours we watched the guy (I spaced on his name!) make tiramisu, white chocolate cheesecake, chocolate hazelnut bliss pie and I think one other - fudge maybe? We got to taste the tiramisu at the end and then they sent home boxes already packed with everything we went over plus other chocolate goodies (it was a choc. themed class). I will definately take more classes when I can! Fun and yummy. Sign up on the mailing list on their website and they'll e-mail you about various classes.

Cindy

[SmilingRawDancer]

Would psyllium husk thicken in a similar way? I'm looking for a thickener, but...yeah, soy isn't appealing :-\

[trinity082482]

$60.00 for 2 people? You could have bought groceries for 4 days! to eat at home. :rolleyes: I would have been upset with the service too for that price. If I was paying 6.99 for a meal.. it wouldn't have mattered. :p
And to ask strangers if other strangers can dine at their table is poor taste. They should have a bigger establishment or clearly notify the public that their restaurant is only yay big

[the_lab_rat]

VeganPrincess: Thanks for the info on the Cafe Gratitude class! I had no idea they offered classes. I am soooo totally taking one as soon as I can afford it!

[barose]

The classes come around every few months or so. I will sign up next time if the time is right for me. Maybe we can get together for the next one?! :D

Ill post next time I get an email about the classes.

[RawTruth]

You can sign up for Cafe Gratitude's emails at the webpage below. Just scroll down to the very bottom:

http://www.withthecurrent.com/events.html

Soy lecithin, though it emulsifies in creamy desserts, is a highly-processed byproduct of soy oil. The following describes its origin:

Soybean lecithin comes from sludge left after crude soy oil goes through a "degumming" process. It is a waste product containing solvents and pesticides and has a consistency ranging from a gummy fluid to a plastic solid. Before being bleached to a more appealing light yellow, the color of lecithin ranges from a dirty tan to reddish brown. The hexane extraction process commonly used in soybean oil manufacture today yields less lecithin than the older ethanol-benzol process, but produces a more marketable lecithin with better color, reduced odor and less bitter flavor. (Shurtleff, William and Aoyagi, Akiko. What Is Lecithin? Chapters 1-6 from History of Soy Lecithin. In Soyfoods: Past, Present and Future. Unpublished manuscript, (Lafayette, CA, Soyfoods Center, 1981)

Here is an article on it, if anyone is interested:
http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/lecithin.html

Using soy lecithin in a raw & living foods lifestyle is an individual choice, of course. For me, it's important to know exactly what the substance is and where it comes from in order for me to make my own decision. Needless to say, sticking to fruits, vegetables, seeds and nuts eliminates the need for this kind of examination. I think it's unrealistic to expect people who are starting out to eat so simply; I find that most people still need foods (and especially desserts) that are similar to the cooked and baked foods they're used to. Then, further down the road, they inevitably and naturally eat less and less prepared dishes. So, in this respect I understand the use of less-than-optimal ingredients.

Cherie, my friend! I've really contributed to this thread veering away from the topic of restaurants, haven't I? If you want to move this, I'll surely understand.

[Vegan Princess]

Rawtruth: Thanks for posting that about the SL. That is completely disgusting! I'm still gonna eat the whipped cream I just made, but I will think twice about using the SL again. Maybe I will try the irish moss next time even though it's not in the recipe.

Today is Tuesday - ferry building farmer's market day...hopefully I'll have enough time at lunch to head down to the Alive booth to pick something up. Such a treat to be able to walk down and grab raw food!

Cindy

[barose]

Thanks RawTruth!

VP - Ill be at the Ferry Building too today between interviews (yes, I'm looking for yet another job) :) , but more like 11:00 or a little earlier.

[Vegan Princess]

I usually go to lunch at 11. I'm aiming to go...just not 100% positive I can be gone that long - playing it by ear. Good luck at your interview! Hopefully I'll run into you. :)

Cindy

[Vegan Princess]

I loved my lunch from the Alive farmer's market booth today. I got a slice of lasagna and a slice of some sort of apricot cream pie/tart. The marinara in the lasagna was a little more pungent than I make it, but otherwise it was great. The apricot pie was INCREDIBILE. It looked beautiful and was probably one of the yummier raw desserts I've tasted. I was really impressed by it! It was a lightly apricot flavored crust with a nice creamy filling covered with what looked like glazed apricots. I'm not quite sure what he did to the apricots...I think they were soaked in something.

And I got to meet Barose...she ended up behind me in line. :D Nice to meet you Carla! Hopefully next time we can eat together.

Cindy

[barose]

I too had the lasagna and it was perfect for the running around I had to do today (I normally eat salad for lunch). I had a sample of the apricot pie (cheesecake?) and it was soooo good. The only reason why I didn’t get a piece is because I already had brownies in my purse. :D Now I wish I had!

It was nice seeing you too!

[the_lab_rat]

Oh, I already posted this somewhere else, but... YES, that apricot pie is amazing, isn't it? That was one of the reasons I wanted to go to the actual restaurant--everything I've had at the farmer's market was delicious! I had the pie last week, and still LOVED it even though I was a bit burnt out on apricots (we have a tree that produced 300+ apricots and I'd been eating 10-12 per day.)

Totally cool you guys got to meet! I go to that market all the time, so maybe I'll run into one of you awesome people someday while in line for raw pie :D

[Lhorses]

Sorry, I have not found Gratitude to have better service, larger portion sizes, better food, lower prices, and non-communal seating.

I've gone to Alive! and Cafe Gratitude several times and they are totally different. Alive! is much smaller and generally much less crowded. Therefore, it's been generally faster for me there.

It obvious Alive! was purposely made small to insure quality and comfort. The restaurant and garden could easily have much more tables. I really like the fact that the chef/owner, Leland, is usually at Alive! and their Ferry Building Stand actually making the food.

Alive! focus is more with the food and artistry. Gratitude focus is more with lifestyle and philosophy The two restaurants are totally different and both are great.

Also, I don't quite understand complaining about any raw food restaurant being being full. Do we want them to be empty? Cafe Gratitude is always full and has communal seating. The wait times you mentioned are about the same at Gratitude when it's packed, although I've never had to wait that long at Alive! when I've gone there. The final bill you mentioned is the same or less when I'm at Gratitude.

With the closure or conversion to cooked food of almost all the raw food restaurant besides Cafe Gratitude in the Bay Area, I think we should support all raw restaurants. My experience with Alive! has been fantastic. Why slam this small place publicly with just one experience and tell people to go to the giant?

[RawTruth]

Sorry, I have not found Gratitude to have better service, larger portion sizes, better food, lower prices, and non-communal seating.

. . .

With the closure or conversion to cooked food of almost all the raw food restaurant besides Cafe Gratitude in the Bay Area, I think we should support all raw restaurants. My experience with Alive! has been fantastic. Why slam this small place publicly with just one experience and tell people to go to the giant?Excellent points, Lhorses.

I think many of us new to raw food (by new, I mean in the last 4-5 years) and living in urban areas take raw restaurants for granted. My long-time-raw friends tell how, until recently, the only way to meet, and eat with, other raw fooders was at potlucks. There were NO restaurants. I do feel that we must do whatever we can to support them all. Personally, I'd rather have a mediocre (or even overpriced) meal in a raw restaurant than end up having no choice other than an unimaginative salad in a cooked food restaurant.

In Southern California, we're lucky to have many raw choices. But, several of them are struggling, and a few have added cooked/baked items. None of them survive on only raw food customers; the majority of their clientele are either semi-raw or people who want organic, whole food meals. I'd hate to think any of them are steered away by any of our reviews.

Good food for thought. Thanks.

[barose]

I dont think Lab Rat's goal was to slam a raw restaurant - she was giving her experience. My experience was not hers as I noted; it seems she went on a bad night. If she had a bad experience, I dont see why she has to hide it, raw or not.

[the_lab_rat]

Also, I don't quite understand complaining about any raw food restaurant being being full. Do we want them to be empty? Cafe Gratitude is always full and has communal seating. The wait times you mentioned are about the same at Gratitude when it's packed, although I've never had to wait that long at Alive! when I've gone there. The final bill you mentioned is the same or less when I'm at Gratitude.

With the closure or conversion to cooked food of almost all the raw food restaurant besides Cafe Gratitude in the Bay Area, I think we should support all raw restaurants. My experience with Alive! has been fantastic. Why slam this small place publicly with just one experience and tell people to go to the giant?

LHorses,

Maybe it would help if you actually read the whole thread. If you had, you'd see no one was slamming Alive. My complaints weren't about the fact that it's tiny or full, the sharing of tables, or the price alone. We didn't want to share a table because the people we would've been sharing it with very obviously did not want company. We were perfectly happy to sit outside--as I said, I thought the patio was very cute--but we were freezing after having to wait over 2 hours, and their heaters didn't work. The price was more than we usually pay, and the waitress 'misplaced' half my leftovers. I explained this in my first post.

Also, I didn't tell anyone to go to "the giant" instead. In fact, I recommended to Barose that she try Alive, and even said I would go back because I thought I'd come on an off night. And like Barose said, these are just MY opinions. I'm glad you've had better experiences at Alive, that's great; my experience wasn't so great, and I should be free to write about that. I fully support raw restaurants; I've lived in areas that didn't even have vegetarian restaurants, which is why I'm even willing to pay that much at a raw place. But supporting raw places shouldn't mean I can only write a review if my experience was wonderful. That isn't "slamming," it's just the honest facts.

Peace,
--the lab rat

[BlueKiss]

Well I have read this entire thread and laughed out loud at Lab Rat eating so many apricots. Sounds yummy and glad you did not turn into one:) Also...are you sure about the non-GMO SL being that bad? I finally learned how to get my desserts to set wth it :( Does anyone know how to purchase the irish moss? Does it come dried and then you re-soak it? Anyway. I am planning on starting a raw catering co. in the bay area and need my desserts to hold up. I also really wanted to take that chocolate dessert class at CG as well but had to work that day. I will for sure be taking the next one.

[Vegan Princess]

Bluekiss: CG sells the Irish Moss in their refridgerator case. I don't think it's dried. It's seaweed - you need to rinse it really well and then I think as long as you keep it in water in the fridge it should last pretty long.