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LightLover
06-26-2007, 05:45 AM
I received some answers from the company (I highlighted some points).
What do you think: Is it RAW?
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LL
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Dear Stefan,
Thanks for your answer.

* I can't find anything on your website about using cold aseptic filling in your process.
People have then more reasons to choose for quality.

* Is cold aseptic filling the same proces used for making uht-milk? (see text below)

Many thanks. Marcel



Features
A cleaner type of filling
13 May 2004

David Strauss of Krones discusses cold-aseptic beverage filling with PET-Asept

Firstly we must answer the question that was posed at the Fresenius Congress early in June 2003, as to whether aseptic filling was merely a "machinery trend" or a "necessity for surviving on the market", there was a clear answer from the expert Michael Braitinger: "Consumers are demanding flawless, unadulterated products. Aseptic filling as a physical process provides precisely the quality improvement that customers want". His vision:
1. "Cold-aseptics are the only way to get back to products that are not only just food, but nourishing food;
2. Cold-aseptics have to involve the elimination of aids like Velcorin or other process additives;
3. Cold-aseptics are the only way to enhance the quality of our diet."
The approach adopted for cold-aseptics by German company Krones, Neutraubling/Germany, has proved to be a good choice. When installing new aseptic bottling lines, the world's beverage industry puts definite trust in Krones' technology: More than a third of PET-Asept lines ordered worldwide in 2003 came from the company.
This is firstly attributable to purposeful design enhancement of the unique isolator system with a minimised cleanroom, and secondly to the skills and expertise of a dedicated aseptic team, which look after new aseptic lines from quotation formulation all the way through to validation.
The PET-Asept process is mainly used for sensitive beverages, both still and carbonated. The new technology is also being employed for milk-based mixed beverages and for the first time with UHT milk.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: s.reiss@dr-martins.info
To: marcelikelaar@hotmail.com
CC: h.martins@dr-martins.at
Subject: AW: dr martins coco drink, "flash pasteurized"?
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:26:09 +0200



Dear Marcel,



thank you very much for your e-mail.



For the reason of consumer safety the products will be flash pasteurized.
But this is done via cold-aseptic filling. This means very short short heating for some seconds between 60 and 90 degrees. Time and degrees are depending on the quality of the raw material and the acid level. Cold-aseptic filling is - at the moment – the best and gentle process for fruit juices. The common hot fill stresses the product because the product is heated up to 70-90 degrees and then it is slowly cooled down – it needs several hours until the products reaches room temperature again.

Cold filling means flash heating and immediately flash cooling back to room temperature within some seconds. This means the strain on the juice is absolute minimum



Best regards

-------------------------------------------------------------------



Stefan Reiß



Dr. Martins’ Products

Export & New Channels

c/o Reiß, Sohn & Co. GmbH

Prinzregentenufer 9

mattm
06-26-2007, 06:17 AM
Hi LL, thanks for the post...Dr. Martins does seem to like you...still waiting on my email back from him! Well, well, well...it is flash pasteurised after all of that...not happy at all with the ?helpful? UK distributor...very misleading. Now what to make of it as a product?...well firstly this information that it's indeed flash pasteurised should be (and I'm sure everyone agrees) highlighted whereever it's sold to allow for an informed decision...especially at places where advertised as a raw superfood and the companies selling it obviously haven't checked it out for any controversy. Now for me personally...I love this drink, I love coconuts and we aren't getting fresh organic coconuts anytime soon here in the UK...also my body reacts extremely well to this Coco Drink and, for me, it's works amazingly as an isotonic after a long run...now it maybe that due to this incredibly short heating time that I'm not getting the adverse reactions I'd expect from cooked foods but who's to know. This is controversial but, even with just flash pasteurisation, I don't think a company can go around calling it 100% raw. Interested to know what other guys think.

All the best, thanks again and I'll tell you what response I get from Dr. Martins (when I get one!).

Matthew

LightLover
06-26-2007, 06:38 AM
Mattm, isn't it strange Shazzie, www.detoxyourworld.com
sells this product without referring to the flash pasteurization?
(So, without deep research...)

Maybe in the future I will make a site: www.rawboycot.com
about raw products with conflicting and vague information.
Of course I will expect some mails from you by then.:D .?

LL

mattm
06-26-2007, 07:09 AM
Hi LL when I referred to companies that sold this as a raw superfood I had Shazzie at the forefront of my mind and as I said, when I get my email from Dr. Martins about the flash pasteurisation, I will be forwarding it stright to companies like Shazzies and speaking to them directly about giving this information on their websites...maybe I can get compensated for my purchase I've just made of 10 cartons from Shazzie based on what is a lie. Oh well, just been out and foraged a huge bag full of wild greens...now this something I know for sure is 100% raw...see that's the great thing about nature...it doesn't and, more importantly, can't lie:D

All he best.

Matthew

LightLover
06-26-2007, 07:28 AM
Great quote Mattm : Nature can't lie...;)
At this level (pretending being better/different) hiding information is indeed lying, with or without purpose.
Must we start a foodcompany, based on complete info?:D

Great with these wildplants is that their roots shoot deeper, taking/finding more nutrients/minerals than SAD-raised-plants.

(I read this at the Boutenko site..)


LL

shine72
06-26-2007, 07:33 AM
Is that 60-90 degrees F or C?

mattm
06-26-2007, 07:38 AM
Yeah, that would be novel a food company that speaks the 100% truth...definitely a gap in the market there:D Determined wild is the way to go, wild food HAS changed my health and I can say this for definite, doesn't get much more nutritious than, for instance, freshly picked wild dandelions and nettles. Also here's one of the best things....IT'S ALL FREE AND SO SIMPLE (can't forage pizzas:D )...and people keep on asking me how I can afford all these greens, use so much produce in smoothies etc...if they only knew what abundant wonders were in their backgardens and countryside!

All the best.

Matthew

LightLover
06-26-2007, 07:39 AM
shine72, I think it must be Celcius, otherwise It wouldn't be high enough to kill germs.


LL

LightLover
06-26-2007, 08:04 AM
Thanks Stefan,

I appreciate highly the future changes on your website.

Sorry for the uht-question, it has been a long time ago for me to ask such a stupid question

thanks for your professionality



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: s.reiss@dr-martins.info
To: marcelikelaar@hotmail.com
Subject: AW: AW: dr martins coco drink, "flash pasteurized"?
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:30:49 +0200




Dear Marcel,



thank you very much for your e-mail.



On our new webpage (from mid of july on) will contain new and changed information and this will be included. UHT ist ultra-high-temperature. The temperature used for cold aspetic is much lower.



Thanks & best regards

sport
06-26-2007, 05:04 PM
Hi LL when I referred to companies that sold this as a raw superfood I had Shazzie at the forefront of my mind and as I said, when I get my email from Dr. Martins about the flash pasteurisation, I will be forwarding it stright to companies like Shazzies and speaking to them directly about giving this information on their websites, can't lie:D

Matthew

I checked with Gillian McKeith about her Living Foods Bars and was told that they heat the oats.
When I asked to what temperature I got no reply so I assume that it was too high (I stated that I was raw).
Shazzie has them for sale on her site.

LightLover
06-27-2007, 05:42 AM
I definitely will go further with mailing Dr Martins.

For example: Can they tell me about the pridukt in the link below:
How is it possible to make this without heating?
Is it a kind of vacuum extraction?

I will let know.:p

http://www.sunfood.com/cgi-bin/order/index.cgi?d=single&item_id=1237

LL

mattm
06-27-2007, 06:08 AM
This product is slightly controversial isn't it LL after finding the information on the FDA's regulations for bottled drinks...very suspect! This is why I've stayed away from bottled products, so-called raw food bars and most packaged produce in the past unless I've had the time to heavily research them because frankly I don't feel the need for them and I JUST DON'T TRUST THE COMPANIES THAT MAKE THEM. By the way, our research is making a difference....thought you might be VERY interested in the following statement put out by Shazzie at the top of the following link's page http://www.detoxyourworld.com/acatalog/coco_drink.html. Guess who the mystery customer is:D It seems Shazzie and other companies like the Fresh Network have been misinformed as much as the customer has and it is good to see Shazzie responding so quickly.

All the best

Matthew

mattm
06-27-2007, 07:05 AM
Sport concerning the McKeith bars...I got some of these free and I can say that as soon as I saw these I was convinced they weren't going to be 100% raw. This McKeith bar is an example of a minefield of a product for those newbie raw foodists...it's another example of where you have to read VERY carefully between the lines...the bar, the websites says it is a RAW product but not a 100% RAW product. When a product is defined as just RAW the LOOSENESS of the definition immediately worries me. With the Mckeith bar it talks about a special process in which THE SUPERFOODS are not heated and still raw to ensure they reatain all their potency but as for the REST of the foods in the bar (not classed as superfoods e.g.oats, apple juice etc) those could and, as you have discovered (to no surprise of mine), are cooked. As I said, some products out there can be minefields and with very loose definitions of things floating around out there people can often get away with a lot. Simplist thing to do...stick to good old fresh fruit and veg...nothing better:)

All the best

Matthew

LightLover
06-27-2007, 08:14 AM
Mattm,
The problem is most of us want more products than fresh fruit/veggies.
we are certainly learning to read very carefully.
Loose words are good in poetry, but not in fooddescriptions.


I send a mail to Stefan from Dr MArtins to ask if he knows how the Goji-juice of Sunfood nutrition can be raw, if he knows which process is involved, how much it costs etc ..curious for his answer.


Many rawfood producers say that they can't talk or give 100% information, about their processingtechniques, because the Fda will not allow.

But I think these are hidingarguments: The real case is that they use the Fda
as an argument, to hide the fact that, following the fda guidelines,
they have to heat food above certain degrees, to kill the germs.

So I think every product claiming to be raw, must explain HOW it has been
produced, in order to keep fresh and killing the germs.
We don't have to know the exact secret, but we wan't to hear words like
"cold aseptic filling etc", which can be googled at.
What do you think, is this reasonable? (not that I want to be so...;) )


Wittgenstein has said: About what we can't talk, we must keep silence
(free translation:D )

We have to say: About what we can talk, we have to talk.
Because others can't or won't.

LL

LightLover
06-27-2007, 08:47 AM
This is also a good article about "food fraude", in this case truffle oil,
which is almost all the time


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/16/dining/16truf.html?ei=5088&en=2d30c8d616ae624b&ex=1336968000&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print


LL