This cycle is harmful

[hollin]

So, I can eat raw foods for about 3 days in a row now, but at the end of this period, almost without fail I have a huge binge on cooked food. I feel absolutely discusting afterwards because of the amount and lack of quality of the foods I have consumed, and only in that state am I able to re-motivate myself to eat raw foods again.

What usually happens before the binge is that I convince myself that a raw food diet is too extreme, will cause too much social isolation, and that eating a little cooked food won't hurt me. Unfortuntely, I have always used cooked food as a drug to deal with unpleasant emotions, so a little cooked food turns into a lot of cooked food. I am having trouble breaking out of this cycle. It's causing more harm than good, and I don't seem to be learning anything from my backtracks.

I know other people have had similar experiences. I'd like to hear from someone who overcame them! Also, perhaps a "raw buddy" or pen pal would help keep me motivated for longer periods of time. Anyone interested in communicating with each other daily to motivate and listen to one another as we make changes? I find the message boards useful, but not quite personal enough.

Peace.
Hollin

[Zuzu]

I know how you feel, it is a cycle I have not yet gotten over. :(
I just wind up eating 4times the amount when I come off of raw because of a craving. I am wondering if it is worth it? :(
I have even put on weight.
I am at my wits end and don’t know how to handle this anymore.
So..NO...you are not alone.

Kat

[Revvell]

Having been vegetarian for 18+ years and not having food as an addiction, I don't relate as easily yet, I'll offer a couple of suggestions here.

1) If you've not already done so, clean our your cupboards of other, processed, low quality non-foods and ONLY keep the good stuff around ~ meaning RAW!

2) IF/when you feel a binge coming on, make a raw smoothie and then IF you still feel to binge on something else, go for it. Usually, the time it takes to prepare, drink and clean-up after might be sufficient time to overcome the craving.

3) Keep plenty of pre-made raw stuffs around. If you are into sweets, then made some raw fudge or coconut caramel cookies and almond milk. If it's just a cooked food, make a nut loaf or Alissa's wonder-filled lasagne. That will last at least 3 days no matter how much one binges.

The thing I find which turns me on to cooked is ~ it's easy for find; it's available and/or, I've not nurtured/nourished myself enough with the raw foods so am VERY hungry and don't have something raw on hand soooo, go for what's easier to get (can ALWAYS have something delivered).

You're obviously already hearing what you are saying to yourself to eat cooked. Maybe, write that down, then write the counter arguement to it?

Hope this helps some ~

Injoy ~

Revvell

[asil]

Well, I'm no expert on raw foods at all, and what I'm about to say is a bit different than the 100% theory that lots here very successfully follow...

For most of my adult life I would follow a strict healthy, whole foods diet for a few days, then *binge* on sweets and other junk foods. I mean I would eat like a monk, then drive to the store and buy a dozen doughnuts and pie, eat as much as I possibly could, throw away the rest to hide my behavior, then start all over again.

About 2 years ago, I started practising yoga and studying ayurveda and read something about not forcing oneself to quit unhealthy habits but gently letting them go. I told myself I'd never expect 100% perfection on anything. Rather, I'd just treat myself well, eat good foods 80% of the time. The funny thing is, I felt immediately better, stopped hiding food behaviors, would eat a dessert when we went out to dinner, but gradually lost interest in large amounts of sweets. In fact, I can't even think if the last time I had that junk. I just lost interest. Part of this is physiological -- my insulin response got better from not being hyperstimulated, I think. But part was just being gentle with myself.

This is the same approach I'm taking with raw foods. I'm just asking 80% of myself for now. The first few weeks I ate something cooked almost every day. Now, in my fourth week, I haven't had anything cooked in 4 days, but I might if I feel like it. Honestly, it's just not that interesting to me.

Like you, I worry a bit about social isolation, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there. So far, it hasn't come up in a big way.

This approach may not be for you. But in any case, I hope you feel better and I hope you treat yourself with kindness. You deserve it! :)

[emmaann]

Hollin!! HEY, yes join the group here!! A lot of us understand how you feel. FOOD can be used as an addiction just like alcohol, drugs or anything else. There is an emotional attachment there and being AWARE of it and understanding it is your first step!! Support is an important step, reaching out for help is important and admiting there is a problem is important! You are on the right track. E-mail me if you like. I am going to start a yahoo group later today for those of us in this same cycle and want to break it!! natureswayeatraw@yahoo.com is my e-mail address!! I am 100% raw and want to stay that way. I have used and abused food (overeating) for years. Eating Raw has helped me over come this and support is SO important.

smiles,

ac :)

[Revvell]

What hits me most in the previous post is "eat like a monk". With raw, it's exactly the opposite. There is NO deprivation! None! Zilch! It's about the enjoyment of the senses ~ smell, taste, visual, satisfaction! It's loving of yourself! The problem for most is, they don't ~ love themselves that is.

Social depravation? Once a month I organize a meeting for a group I'm involved with. Between 12-65 folk might show at any given time. I've brought my own foods and also brought foods to share. Yes, it's at a chain restaurant. Many folk have enjoyed my raw pies. To me, I don't deprive myself of ANYthing!!! Life is good!


Injoy ~

Revvell

[sweetgoddess]

An interesting thread popped up last week called..." If Raw Diet doesnt End Food Addiction......what Does?" Here is the link: http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3062

I personally have discovered for myself, there is no way around doing the mental and emotional work and healing along with the physical.
My husband says to me sometimes..."we don't go from conditions to states...we go from states to conditions." Well, :rolleyes: I always thought oh what a wise thing to say-but didnt really get it.

But raw helped me finally understand . I could change my outer conditions...change the food in front of me etc.(the conditions) ..but without changing the way I think...or how I respond to my mind, beliefs and emotions ( state ) i wasnt getting anywhere. And it was a struggle.

So in retrospect, it seems like I had to learn the hows and whys of raw...have the inspiration and desire to embrace it...but in order to do so and to continue doing so..I then had to start the inner work.

Hope this helps somehow. You can do this, really. oh, yesterday in another post (not related) rawpriestess said something I find fascinating.


I am a Certifiied Hypnotherapist, and there are certain things to look for when dealign with addictions. First, IF a person REALLY wants to change they will try and probably not succeed a few times, so this will let you know if they are serious, if they have actually tried in the past. They will also seek help from anyone or anything, so they may have tried several devices to change. Then one day they will make up their mind that they absolutely will have no other option that to change, THIS is the time that they will change, and it won't matter what they use, they will change.

Many blessings to you....!

[Sharon in Colorado]

Hey Hollin,

Don't know what your diet was before you went raw but if you are jumping from a SAD straight into a RAW diet it may be a bit of a challenge. You may be one who needs to make more gradual changes so that your habits will stick. Here is an idea if you still really want to do this. You can make a plan for yourself to go into it slowly, if you are eating SAD right now:

Week 1 eliminate meats, fish and poutlry
Week 2 eliminate dairy products
Week 3 eliminate refined sugar products
Week 4 breakfast all raw, salad with dinner
Week 5 breakfast & lunch all raw, salad with dinner
Week 6 All meals raw

Or something like that. If you are presently a vegetarian maybe you can try diong things a little differently like eliminating refined sugars, then grains, then dairy while slowly upping your raw foods.

There aren't too many people who can do a drastic change. Don't know how long you've been doing this either. Maybe you can give some more background info about yourself and what you were eating before.

Feel free to e-mail me as well. I need support like everybody else!

[asil]

What hits me most in the previous post is "eat like a monk". With raw, it's exactly the opposite. There is NO deprivation! None! Zilch! It's about the enjoyment of the senses ~ smell, taste, visual, satisfaction! It's loving of yourself! The problem for most is, they don't ~ love themselves that is.



Hi Revell,

You're right. I ate like a monk on my earlier, so-called whole foods diet. Raw is no deprivation at all :). At least not the way folks around here do it. I tried another version, based on some other books I read, and another raw board I won't name that was, well, verging on harsh and fanatical -- limiting nuts, sweet fruits; complicated food combining or mono-eating; no dehydrated foods, spices, or oils. I was even told I was a fool for continuing to take thyroid medication even though my thyroid has been removed. I ended up thinking raw foods were really a kind of radical religion. Happily, I stumbled upon a happier version.

And I hope no thinks I discouraging 100% raw. I meant to merely encourage kindness and gentleness to self. :)

[Pailani]

I'm just asking 80% of myself for now. The first few weeks I ate something cooked almost every day. Now, in my fourth week, I haven't had anything cooked in 4 days, but I might if I feel like it.

This is sort of the approach I see myself possibly using (I'll decide after I complete my 90-Day Challenge!) It seems like, for me, having a pressure valve, just knowing it's there even if I don't need to use it, keeps me from thinking about what I'm missing. It's as if I've given myself permission to have something if I really, really want it, and knowing that it will be available later helps me to say 'no' this time. And if I do say 'yes,' I'll see it as an exercise of my will rather than a failure, so I won't fall off the bandwagon.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Hollin just wanted to tack on to my previous post that working your way gradually toward all raw will get you to enjoy it so much that you won't care about the social stigmas. If you started to prefer raw fresh foods over SAD or what everyone else is eating, it won't matter to you, and it'll make the whole psychology of it a lot easier on you.

[EmmaBlue]

hi Asil,

I loved your post. I am following something similar, eating raw foods as a general rule and being gentle with myself. I loved when you wrote:

Now, in my fourth week, I haven't had anything cooked in 4 days, but I might if I feel like it. Honestly, it's just not that interesting to me.

It reminded me of the scene in the movie "Lost Horizon" where the monk Chang reveals to Conway the secret to the exceptional longevity and health of the inhabitants of Shangri-La......he says something like, "people think it's the pure air and food, but it's actually the absence of struggle that is the secret."

The absence of struggle! That struck a chord with me, and your post did as well.

Thanks, Emma

[rawpriestess]

OH I love that "The absence of struggle" My new mantra.

Life isn't meant to be a struggle it is meant to be a bliss filled event.

Please know this.

But what you have here is a wonderful opportunity, I mean look at this: you KNOW you can eat raw for 3 whole days, WOW, I used to think eating raw for one whole day was an accomplishment, look how well you are doing.

AND, you know when you will have some issues, how great it that? I mean you already know in advance when you will have a challenge, so what this means is that YOU CAN BE PREPARED, for those challenges, and welcome them, because you ONLY have challenges when you are moving into a new direction.

I personally would be VERY EXCITED to KNOW my triggers.

So, here is a way to help, there are always strategies or patterns whenever we do anything, so there is a pattern that you are doing when you make the decision to eat cooked, you have already stated it, that you start rationalizing.

PERFECT, so all you need to do is to "Interupt" that pattern. WHEN you start rationalizing on the 3rd day, you say to yourself,"Hey, here is that great pattern, how marvelous. I will observe myself rationalizing about this, so I can understand the process, so I can stop it each time it happens." when you stop to observe how your mind works, and what you are doing, you can stop it.

You don't beat yourself up about it, you learn from it.

You have already learned alot, you know the time frame you are dealing with, you know your inner dialogue, you know what happens, and then you know how you feel afterwards, what a marvelous lesson.

So, observe yourself in this situation, and before you actually go through the rationalization, remember that you can be thrilled to go through this craving, because once you actually go THROUGH it, then it will be over, it will go away, because you are simply observing it, you aren't part of it, and it is simply then a non-entity.

You can do something else.

When I do therapy, I give my clients a detailed questionnaire to help them with our work together, and once they have actually decided what they choose to release (usually something entirely different than they thought) they have to come up with 50 different things to do instead of the old behavior.

So, you might try this, write down 50 things you would rather do instead of compulsively eat cooked food when you are at that point in time that happens after the 3 days raw.

Make them really fun, and enjoyable, make them something that is special to you, make them not cost alot of money, and make them reasonable.

example:
1. call a raw friend and chat about some really great new recipes
2. soak in a hot bubble bath with a good book and soft music
3. go to the animal shelter and volunteer
4. make a super extravagant delicious raw recipe
5. buy a truly exotic new fruit, I've never tried, durian, or cheramoya
6. Call a family member that you just never have time to talk with
7. Go for a walk
8. Come to this board and read all the stuff here, (this can take hours or day)
9. Read Allisa's book, especially the testimonials (this has helped me alot)
10. Search out the raw websites on Google, wow, so many free recipes and information to research

Okay, there is a small list. It has helped me, I have a huge list, mostly of artwork I need to complete, so I actually use this as a way to get more work done.

This is how it works. YOU tell yourself that after you have completed this task, then and ONLY then will you allow yourself to indulge in non-raw eating.

And what happens if you decide you still want cooked? Well, you can always eat it, or you can choose another task.

But if you are serious about raw eating, this might help you.

I know it has helped many of my clients succeed in massive change in their lives, and many have been able to kick some really difficult addictions this way.

I wish you the very best, and good luck, come and talk to all of us we have been there, and are still there, and we are with you 100%.

No judgements, simply support.

We care.

[sweetgoddess]

very enlightening post rawpriestess, thank you.

Emma~I love that movie!!! SO glad you mentioned it for its time to watch it again~from a new perspective.

[hollin]

Thank you all so much for your support and good advice!

Unfortunately, I don't have a kitchen or refridgerator of my own because I'm living in a college dormitory. This limits my options in terms of making smoothies and eliminating cooked food temptation-- everywhere I go there is cooked food! However, I have found enough options (fresh whole fruit, salads, Lara bars, etc.) that I don't feel so deprived. After graduation I an going to Costa Rica, and I hope I will be able to use my time there to really focus on improving my diet and exploring delicious options!

Sweetgoddess - Thank you so much for sharing the quote about overcoming addiction. I found it very inspiring-- just what I needed!

Sharon - Thank you for your suggestions. I am not switching straight from SAD to raw. I have been vegetarian for three years, vegan for one month, and 50-75% raw for about 1 year. I agree with you that it's better to take it slow, but my detox symptoms (when I do eat raw) are very light, and that tells me that my body is ready to handle more raw foods.

Rawpriestess - You're absolutely right! There is a very obvious pattern for me-- eat exclusively raw foods, feel great for three days, negative thoughts come in, eat cooked foods, cooked foods make me feel sick, back to eating raw foods. I also like you idea of making the list of things I'd rather be doing than having cooked food binges.

Thank you all so much! This community makes me so happy!

Peace.
Hollin