Animal Lovers

[rawjojo]

I 'm sure that there are plenty of dog lovers out there and I am wondering what you are feeding your pups? My dogs eat raw veggies but I feel that they need a little more than that to live on. Could you please fill me in on what you are using for nourishment. I have a 16 yr. old Golden Ret. and a 1 yr. old Lab

[Lyis]

Well, Rawjojo,

You must be doing something very right to have a 16 year old golden. Wow! I am also interested in this information. Haven't found much to be satisfying on this subject and would like to be feeding my 7 year old lab-husky mix a healthier diet.

-- Lyis

[Analeah]

Have you thought about ordering pre made raw dog food? I used to give my dogs a brand called "Steve's Raw Dog Food" it was nice because it was frozen into cubes and all ready to eat (which is good for me because I know there is no way I would be able to prepare raw dog food which includes any kind of meat). I guess the only down side is that it is more expensive than regular kibble but they definately love it and if you can afford spending a little extra money I would definately do it.

[rawjojo]

Thanks for the info.

Also in the animal lovers note ~ I was invited to attend a screening of Peaceable Kingdom. Unfortunately I am not able to attend BUT I did just order the video myself. I have seen bits and pieces of it and it looks like a fabulous documentry. I am sure the entire show will be overwhelming. I actually am becoming raw for Health reasons. BUT a movie like this causes you to think twice. I'll let you all know how the whole movie is.

Have any of you seen it?????

[thunderdancer]

Hi jojo - I haven't seen it but i'm entruiged - I love the sound of the title.

[rawjojo]

Hi Thunderdancer

If you want to you can check out a preview at
www.tribeofheart.com

Enjoy,
jojo

[Analeah]

I haven't seen it either but would love to. I have never heard of it before....is it in theaters yet? Have you seen the little video clip narrated by Alec Baldwin at www.meetyourmeat.com ?

[rawjojo]

Have not seen the clip yet but i am going to check it out in a minute!

[Analeah]

Check this link out too, it has tons of video clips on it so when you have a little free time watch some when you can. http://www.petatv.com/veg.html

[rawjojo]

Oh my!!!!!
i just watched a couple of clips and I had to turn it off. I just about jumped out of my skin. I am definitly going to pass this site around to some of my meat eaters! Very powerful commercial (very sad and gross, too). I can't believe what some people do!

[Analeah]

Check this one out too, I just watched it a few minutes ago http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=sexy_veg&Player=qt&speed=_med

It really is amazing to me after watching these to think that so many millions of people are still eating meat. I am really curious to know if the other meat eaters out there are aware of how the animals are treated and slaughtered etc. I don't see how someone could still eat meat after watching some of those clips but then again I am probably not like the majority of people so maybe my reaction would be a lot different from other people's...

[rawjojo]

I honestly think that if good humane people saw those ads it would really effect them. I think people just put it in the backs of thier minds and ignore all of the abuse. I am definitely going to spread the word. Once again, thanks for the e-mail notice!

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi Rawjojo,

I have a husky, black lab mix and 3 cats. At Wild Oats (our health food store) I can get a whole chicken grounded up (bones included) for $1.99 a pound. I usually add grated carrots, zucchini, and squash, sprinkled with barley green and when I use meat without bones, I'll add some calcium tablets.

Here are a few good websites for feeding your pets a raw diet:

Pat McKay (http://www.patmckay.com/)

BARF Diet (http://www.barfworld.com/html/barf_diet/barfdiet_specific.shtml)

Steve's Real Food (http://www.stevesrealfood.com/)

Shirley's Wellness Cafe (http://http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/index.htm)

I am a vegetarian and it doesn't bother me to feed my animals raw meat. One of our cats has probably dragged in 30-40 mice, 4 rabbits, 3 or 4 birds, and a few other creatures. It's their way of life, especially cats - they love their meat.

<>< Helen of Tennessee

[thunderdancer]

Jojo thank you for the link - I will check it out ASAP!

I feed my 2 cats raw too, 50% because I can't get the grinding done here, so they have the best dry food I can get in the morning and in the afternoon they have a chicken wing each.

I don't like buying dead animal or being in that area of the shop/butchers but I love my 2 boys and want the best for them.

WHen I get home i'm going to source from and organic farm my dad uses, I may have to come face to face with the animals being rasied for food but at least they are well raised and looked after, I HATE the whole industry - I 'should' be able to live in the country and my boys would roam and catch thier own food but the world as it is right now, and the fact that I love my companions, means I have to do the best I can. Plus my fiance eats animal and I respect his choice but would also like to get him the best I can for him and the sake of the animals. And if I go to the farm I send the animals some love whilst i'm there. :(

[AJ Bodine]

Before I lost my dog Mikki last November, she waited every morning for juice in her bowl. Didn't matter what kind we made, apple, green, pear, etc...she drank it up and loved it! She also loved bananas. It was rare she didn't enjoy a raw treat. She was a doberman that could have easily been 100% raw I think. We did get her food from a health food store though and I can't remember the brand, but it made her lean and gave her a shiny coat.

I can't wait to have another dog someday, but now we are renting and cannot have one.

[Analeah]

Yeah that's tough thunderdancer but I think you're doing the right thing. If you have to get meat for the dh or your pets I think it is way better if it comes from a small private farm rather than a factory farm. You are so brave to go there yourself too (I'm such a panzy I don't think I could do it even though it's the right thing to do)! AJ thanks for sharing your juicing experience for your dog! That's a really great idea. I just got news from my mother who is taking care of one of my dogs back in the US and she said my dog is terribly sick and has either a tumor or cancer of some kind. She just started her on a raw food diet which I think she is improving but I think juicing would really help too.

[smasty]

I've had my dogs on a raw food diet for 3.5 years. Meat is important! Please don't deny your dogs meat. They don't need a lot of it, but you should re-create what their diet would be in the wild. Definitely raw meat and bones, definitey NOT cooked grain.

It's REALLY important they have pulverized vegetables. If the veggies aren't pulverized, they are too quickly expelled with no nutrient retention. In the wild they would get veggies by eating the stomach contents of herbivores (pulverized and partially digested veggies), as well as grass on occasion.

It's VERY important bones be given raw. They are soft and digestible raw, they are brittle and dangerous if cooked. My dogs frequently get raw chicken bones---something you'd never do w/ cooked bones.

The ratio, in weight, of meat: veggies that I give my two dogs (55 lbs and 70 lbs) is about 30% meat, 70% veggies. For treats they get raw almonds. They can have as many as they want, cause they just poop them out. They love them! Avocado and coconut make nice treats too.

[Analeah]

Hey Smasty that is great to know about the raw bones! I never knew if it was safe to give chicken bones or other bones raw so I usually just gave them raw hide which I don't think is very healthy. Do you know if giving raw bones can cause indigestion? The family I am staying with here has two bulldogs who have sensetive stomachs and if given the wrong food we all are very sorry as they will fart constantly. About the meat to veggy ratio, does that apply to all breeds do you think? The dogs I have are part arctic wolf and I have heard wolves and some other breeds have a higher need for protein. I used to give my dogs raw almonds as treats too and they just loved it, along with coconut, avocado, watermelon and corn.

[ConsciousCuisine]

There are many differing opinions as to the best diet for pets and also as to the most "natural" diet for pets. Unfortunately, we no longer live in a "Natural" environment...

Check out www.veganpets.com (under construction with lots of good links) , www.vegancats.com and look into "Obligate Carnivore" an interesting book...

[Analeah]

I have always heard about people who have vegetarian dogs but I have never been able to get any information on how to do it or if it is healthy for them etc. Most people I talk to always say dogs and especially cats have to have meat to be healthy. Thanks for posting the links I can't wait to check them out!

[thunderdancer]

this is a great thread!

thanks smasty for the great info!

Analeah thank you for saying i'm brave but i'm not - I went to check the farm out and saw pigs out the front and just wanted to rescue them, i'mthe same when I see cows in fields, it makes me sick that people breed them for food, thats just me though, i'm not judging, just how I feel. Ideally I would never have to go near 'meat' or have anything to do with it. I've done some reading about cats and raw, yep, they could live on a vegan diet but it isn't natural or optimal (I believe) so I do the best I can.

Thank you CC for the link - i'll check it out when I can for sure, interesting stuff!

Analeah, i'm sorry to hear about your poorly dog, thats brilliant your mum is putting her on a raw diet right away wow! What's your dog's name? I'd like to think of her and send her a prayer/healing thoughts if thats ok?

Thanks again everyone for this thread! It's refreashing to be able to talk about this stuff.

[Analeah]

I can totally relate to what you're saying Thunderdancer! It's so hard to feel how we do about eating animals but also you want the very best for your kitties! Thank you so much for your support for my dog! Her name is Sierra and she is about 8 years old. I also have one of her puppies who is now about 2 years old and his name is "Savage" (but he's really sweet) and he's staying with a friend of mine. My mom just called me in the middle of the night a few days ago because she had just woke up and said there was a huge pool of blood on the floor and blood splattered everywhere. She has been putting frankinsence essential oil on her and giving her some medicine from a homeopathic vet. I am hoping the blood was a sign of her system cleansing and that she will get better! Thanks again for your thoughtfulness!

[thunderdancer]

Ohhh Analeah i'm all gooey now - she (and savage) are GORGEOUS!!

(In french - oh you probably know this!! - 'sauvage' means wild :))

I have a dream of sharing my life with a dog (2 actually) and I always feel drawn to large white long haired dogs :)
I'd love a husky/wolf/mountain type dog, if I ever get a dog I would like to rescue though so who knows - mind you thats another place i've nevcer been - the rescue shelter - how would I 'pick'?? And how would I walk out leaving all the others behind...

It's perfect to have a pic of Sierra, i'll send her lots of love and healing energy/prayers.

Love

[Analeah]

Awe thanks thunderdancer! They are the most awsome dogs but sometimes I think they are too smart lol. They need a lot of running and exercise and of course love and attention but they give SO much affection, it's really amazing. Especially Savage, he would actually hug me with both his paws and his body when I was still in bed each morning after I woke up and before I went to sleep. Sierra is 3/4 samoyed (an Alaskan breed) and 1/4 arctic wolf. A couple years ago we met a white german shepard who was unneutered and had a really great personality so we thought puppies would be nice. She had eight puppies altogether and five out of the eight went to close family and friends so we all get together every now and then and it's amazing to see them all run and play together. Unfortunately after the puppies were born Sierra got an infection and had to have her uterus removed. It was really sad because I think her health was never the same after that. Ever since she had the puppies so many people have been asking me over and over again when she can have more puppies because they want one. Eventually I want Savage to have puppies but I am torn because I am against the whole "breeding" thing and I think it's better to rescue animals from the shelter. I guess I'm just kind of selfish though because I really want one of his puppies at some point... Then again I know anyone who takes one of the puppies will be very happy and it will be very special. Here's a pic of Savage and his daddy and a few other more recent pics of the pups and sierra just for fun :)

[rawjojo]

Hi Everyone!

Sorry I missed all of the animal chat yesterday but I was away. Glad to catCH up today though. THOSE PUPS ARE AWESOME, VERY BEAUTIFUL. I LOVE THIER WHITE COATS!!!!!

Smasty, thanks for the great advise.
Everyone else, all of your imput was very helpful. My babies will be much appreciative!

Thanks Again!
rawjojo

[Curtis]

Wow, beautiful dogs Analeah :)
I agree with what folks have been saying here. A lot of these vid clips that have been mentioned here I recently found. And I agree if everyone in the world would view these I think their attitude on eating meat would change.
It is really disgusting and revolting how animals are treated, and the Alec Baldwin one I really had a hard time viewing it. :(

[Analeah]

Hey Curtis thanks for your input. I am always curious to know how different people react to the clips. Which do you think was the most shocking out of the clips you watched? I am trying to figure out the best clips to recommend people to watch. My experience when asking other meat eating friends to view the clips is they say "that's not true" or "that's only the meat for McDonalds" or "that must be a very rare and isolated case" or my favorite "that can't be true because it surely must be against the law". I think most people have the view that nothing this terrible could be happening because it would be against the law. I find some of these reactions to be pretty ridiculous especially the denial ones because they are actually watching a video which is a pretty solid way to prove something.

[Curtis]

I have recommended folks to look at the meatrix one first, but on peta's site the Bea Arthur takes on KFC and the Alec one are what kind of got me thinking and researching more.

[Ertarox]

Live vegan dogs can be done and is, to me, worth it. I just researched it for a friend a little bit. Animals in the wild, if you notice, don't even eat but once a day, if that (in terms of portions), so try not to fear that! Have you ordered a copy of Dr. Ann Wigmore's "Our Precious Pets"? I'm looking at a million copies of it as I type this, it's where I work. Great should be in there! Also, I've seen A PEACEABLE KINGDOM, and it is VERY WELL DONE! I went to a large screening in Chicago! I'm told "The Witness" is awesome as well and can't wait to view a friend's copy soon. Perhaps the most powerful AR film I've seen is "Earthlings", though, narrated by Joaquin Phoenix.


Hope this helped!

[rawjojo]

Ertarox,

Welcome to the forum! I am assuming that you are new as I haven't seen your name before today.

Anyhow, thanks a million for the info. Do you work at an institute or at a bookstore? Either place would be cool. I will definitely get that Ann Wigmore book. Also, my copy of P-kingdom is supposed to arrive tomorrow. I can't wait to view it I am also going to check into the others that you listed.

namaste'
rawjojo

[magnolia]

I have a reptile (a green iguana), and of course, she's a live foodist ;) she eats collard greens, snow peas, yams, and radicchio (her favorite mix).

As far as slaughterhouse stuff goes... yeah, it's pretty gross what they do to those animals. And maybe I don't care so much because I haven't eaten beef in a couple years.

We kill our own moose and butcher it... the guys quarter it, and then we all start slicing and dicing and what can't be turned out into steaks or roast gets ground up... but it's a real clean operation. I have a tough time seeing anything wrong with it... it's nothing like those video clips.

[Analeah]

Hello and welcome Ertarox! Thanks for sharing about your raw iguana Magnolia and your view on the meat thing too! It's good to hear feedback from someone with a different background. I think for me having always been a vegetarian the thought of taking the life of an animal friend (especially not out of necessity) whether it be in a factory farm slaughterhouse or out in the wild while hunting is still disturbing to me. I think it's probably a lot different of a story like you said between a factory farm and the moose you are used to dealing with. Though I am definately against any kind of hunting I think if the person uses every part of the animal so that nothing goes to waste it's not nearly as bad as hunting just for sport which I find to be one of the more ridiculous things. I think if everyone who ate meat had to go out and hunt for it and kill the animal themselves there would probably be a lot less people eating so much meat. Have you ever gone hunting or is it just your husband who goes? From your experience/knowledge do the animals suffer much when they are being hunted? I have watched some hunting video's that really made me want to cry when I saw the animal get shot and could see it was obviously in a lot of pain.

[magnolia]

I've never been hunting for moose... that's my boyfriend's job :p

They try very hard to put it down without causing excess pain... one shot to the heart or lungs usually does the trick. Besides making it less unpleasant for the moose, it also keeps the meat in good shape.

I'm not a fan of trophy hunting, that's for sure!

Up here, especially in the villages, moose & caribou & fish make up a majority of the diet. Even in the "city" (if you can call it that!) that I live in, we have a good percentage of people that choose to hunt rather than eat the grocery store meat.

At least the moose are free-roaming... not penned up tightly like cattle. And, we do try to get as much meat as we can off of it and not waste any because one moose can normally feed 2-3 families for a winter.

Cutting up the meat is like a social event :D It's a lot of fun to sit and chat with people while working!

[Analeah]

Hey magnolia, wow I didn't realize you lived in Alaska. It must be like a whole other country there! I have never been there myself but I am planning a small trip this coming winter to visit my sister who will be working there with her bf for about six months taking care of sled dogs and giving tours I think. I hope it won't be too hard to eat veg there! I have heard it can be a little more challenging over there. I wonder just how cold it gets in the winter and how many hours of daylight?

[magnolia]

We get down to about 3 hours of daylight in the winter.. I'm right in the middle of the state, so if you are further north, you'll get less daylight, and if you are further south, you'll get a bit more.

Temperatures of -40 are not uncommon, especially in January/February which seem to be the coldest months around here.

I think eating raw is pretty dang difficult here... there is no selection... and about the only fruit you can get year round is bananas! And, be prepared to pay out the nose for anything you really want :mad: