Fasting in Panama at Tanglewood

[Yammy]

Has anyone ever gone to Tanglewood to fast? I will be going for a 6 week water fast June 2! I would really love to hear of others' experiences!

www.tanglewoodwellnesscenter.com

[Yammy]

Has anyone ever BEEN to Panama? A little freaked out about being in the city for a week by myself...

[SchoolOfRAWk]

I thought they were on the east coast.
I have heard stuff, talking to water fasting doctors.
I don't personally advocate water fasting anymore.
But I have heard the only place to go is True North Health - :confused:

[Yammy]

I'm going to stay in the city for a few days before I head to the center. Thank you for the post. I will check it out!

[RawGoddess13]

WOW! I was just going to ask the exact same ? to see if anyone knew anything about Tanglewood!!! I was actually interested in having an intership there. I decided to search first and look what I found only two days earlier! Healthy minds think alike! So I would also like to know if anyone has been to or knows anything about Tanglewood Wellness Center. And when you go there for your water fast, please keep us all posted, I would love to know how it goes. I will also check out True North Health if anyone knows about that one, please share as well Thanks...

[RawGoddess13]

Hi Yammy-
Did you happen to see this thread? I just read it...

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=34&highlight=tanglewood

[Yammy]

Hi RawGoddess!

I am actually doing the internship! So I will keep you posted!

[RawGoddess13]

Let me know Yammy I am very interested after reading all the comments from everyone on here. Good Luck!

[Yammy]

It's so interesting to read the two different poles. I do not believe any one person knows all the answers. I spoke with Loren this morning for nearly an hour, it was a great conversation, and I believe that I have much to learn from him. Who knows, maybe he'll learn something from me.

I hold my own beliefs (I am a student holistic nutrition practitioner) that I created from many different sources. There shall be some interesting discussion I believe!

I do however believe colonics can be beneficial. I do not believe it is natural to stick a tube up our bums and shoot water up it, but I still believe they can be beneficial. They are risky, I know. I have profs that believe it is wrong, and others who swear by them! If there are unnatural toxins in my system from crap I ate that only a colonic can remove, why not use an unnatural method of getting them out too! Ha.

[dreamrawalwz]

I personally know someone that was at Tanglewood and LOVED it. She said she felt so different. The healing was miraculous and amazing. Her roommate "cured" his cancer during her stay. I'd like to go for a deeper healing and my dad said "ok" as long as my Aunt came with me, but now I have to work ALL summer, so it's not possible now. Maybe during winter break or something...I wish!

[SchoolOfRAWk]

I have also heard from doctors inside this industry that Lauren has no business supervising fasts-? I didn't want to say, necessarily, but since that thread was brought up....

Dr. Scott is in Ohio. He's good!

[lydias]

Please let me know your experience when you return!
Thanks.

[kralcx]

Wow, where do I start. I will do my best to keep this as fair and

balanced as I possibly can. To begin, let me introduce myself; last

week I completed a 4 week stay at the Tanglewood Wellness Center. My 4

week stay consisted of a 21 day water fast and 7 days of refeeding.

In the beginning everything was okay. Let me state that before going

and still to this very day I believe in water fasting. The reason why

I choose the Tanglewood Center was because I was unsure if I could

complete a 21 day fast on my own, (my previous best had been five

days), so I wanted to be supervised. My will is strong; I'm not the

type of person who needs his hand held. So for the first 21 days there

really was nothing negative that I experienced. After all you just lay

around all day and drink water.

However, let me point out some of the observations that I made during

the first 21 days of my stay at Tanglewood. First thing I noticed is

the library contains extremely few if any health books. There was a

lot of fiction books, national geographic magazines, books on how to

make money, buddist philosophy,etc., etc., but no books on health. I

quickly learned that Loren Lockman believes he is right and everyone

else is wrong. Loren doesn't want anyone to pollute their minds with a

health philosophy that is different than his.

I also observed that he likes to make money. I always thought his no

refund policy was a little extreme, but it didn't effect me personally

so I thought little of it. Loren charges 10 cents a minute to use

either the computer or the telephone. Loren charges 50 cent per

article of clothing you want to wash. Loren has a small gift shop, he

charges double the price of a shop just down the street. If you break

your fast early for any reason Loren will charge you an extra $30 a day

for food that cost him at most 75 cents (I have seen this with my own

eyes). (I also saw a girl leave 4 weeks early and receive no refund).

I also observed through Loren's lectures that he gives twice a week,

that he is not as knowledgable as he would like people to believe. For

example, Loren will tell you that you control your own destiny. You

may inherit genetic weaknesses from your parents but you control your

diet and thus your own outcome in life. Yet when a question was asked

why he has all grey hair. Loren angrily stated that it is genetic and

it runs in his family. Another guest followed up that question by

telling Loren that grey hair comes from a lack of minerals. She then

asked Loren how can he get enough minerals in his diet if he just eats

fruit. Loren just said he has been doing what he has been doing for

over a decade and he feels fine.

I also observed that Loren has a bad habit of telling someone

something, in my opinion, just to get them to shut up. For example,

one of the female guests was concerned about snakes and spiders (a

perfectly reasonable fear, since we are living in a jungle). Loren

quickly said there are no poisionous snakes or spiders living in

Panama. I'm no rocket scientist, but even I know a blatent lie when I

hear one. As fate would have it one night while I was in the bathroom

standing up urinating I heard something hit the furniture that was next

to the toilet. It was a very big spider and turned towards me. I use

to live in Georgia where they have poisionous spiders and snakes (that

is how come I know they also exists in the jungles of Panama), and this

spider looked like a Brown Recluse. Loren has a philosophy of not

killing any insect or animal that is on his property. So I went and

got a staff member to get the spider out of my room. She used a glass

and a dust pan to remove the spider. She dropped the spider off on the

grass right in front of my room (she should have taken it further

away), as soon as the spider hit the grass it climb right back up the

porch and tried to get back in the room, however it couldn't because

the door was closed. This spider was fast and aggressive. I went

online to find a picture of what I saw the night before; it turned out

to be a Chilean Recluse! It is the same as a brown recluse just a

different name in a different country. This spider is very poisionous

and can kill people. When I told Loren what I found in my room, he

told me in nature some spiders that are harmless look like poisionous

spiders so they won't get eaten. Needless to say, my BS detector went

into overdrive when he said that! Also for anyone that cares,

tarantulas and scorpions were seen on the property as well.

I also observed a problem with Loren's personality. Loren requires all

the interns to read a book about Non-Violent Communication. That

immediately made me feel uneasy. This should be a peaceful community,

why would anybody NEED to read a book about Non-violent Communication?

From my observation the interns were very good, the only person who had

trouble talking to people was Loren himself. I personally observed

Loren tell a young distraut girl with mental illness, "...to get the

fuck out of here!" This also happens to be the same girl who left 4

weeks early. I also observed Loren pout like a little boy who didn't

get his way, when two of the guests wanted to break their fasts early

against Loren's wishes.

All that I wrote above took place during my first 21 days. The first

21 days were easy compared to the last 7 days of refeeding.

I have severe candida and I am a meat eater. My tongue during the

entire length of the fast was so coated, it looked snow white AFTER I

brushed it! I told Loren I didn't want to eat any fruits, he insisted

and I had no choice. Even medical doctors don't have the power to

force you to do something against your will. However when it comes to

refeeding you either eat what Loren gives you or you will just continue

fasting until you leave (the above sentence is NOT a joke!). My face

broke out immediately from day one of refeeding all the way up to and

including today as I write this post. (It has gotten better since I

left the Tanglewood Center). Loren's flippant remark was it was just a

coincidence that happened; he adamantly stated it had nothing to do

with the fruit. Many noted fasters, such as Professor Ehret state that

not everyone should do a long fast. Particular meat eater's, and you

don't break a long fast with fruit. During the fast all of the

poison's stay in your body and become concentrated. Fruit which is a

power cleanser when it hits the concentrated poison's can cause severe

shock to the body. Just for the record during my entire 21 day fast I

had no bowel movement, yet I could feel the impacted plaque matter in

my colon (it would cause me physical pain at times). I knew the fruits

were not good for me, yet I had to eat them ( I had to eat something

because otherwise I would be too weak to make it home). By the way I

lost 28 pounds; I was only 162 when I started.

Some more observations. Loren firmly believes that it is his way or

the highway. He will not change from his strict refeeding schedule

even if it harms the patient. Once I was strong enough to walk into

town I would smuggle back tomatoes and cucumbers for myself and three

other guests who were in a weaker condition than me. Loren will kick

you out of the retreat if he catches you bringing in outside food. I

should have never been put in that poisition in the first place! After

observing how Loren doesn't listen to the guest's concerns about their

bodies. And how Loren believes anyone can do a long fast. Loren

during his lecture liked to brag how his youngest client wasn't even a

year old. At that time I was thinking to myself I wondered if Loren

has ever killed anybody before. Then I read on this site that he had

indeed. In my humble opinion Loren is dangerous!

Loren likes to keep at tight rein on the interns. He doesn't want them

talking to the guests, and they can't do anything without Loren's

approval. It was very strange to me to see these interns, who's ages

are: 50, 48, 49, and 38 behave so fearfully of Loren. And lastly on

the last lecture day before I left I tried to explain to Loren why so

many of the guest's were upset with him. I let Loren know that my

talking to him wasn't for my benefit (since I was leaving in two days)

but so he could grow and learn so he doesn't make the same mistakes

with new guests coming to the Tanglewood Center. He ignored everything

I said and got so upset he looked as if he was going to cry. Loren

takes ever guests vital signs everyday to make sure they are okay. The

next day after I had that talk with him, Loren did not take mine and

another guest's vital's. Loren when upset behaves like a spoiled

child!

There is probably more that I could say, however I will stop for now.

I hope this report was fair and balanced, and I hope it helps someone

to make a more informed decision about the Tanglewood Wellness Center.

If you have any more questions don't hesitate to email me.

[SchoolOfRAWk]

Wow, what a post. I am not surprised from what I heard. I probably would do TrueNorthHealth (Dr. Goldhamer, although I disagree with some of their stuff, I KNOW people are taken great care of! THEY bring you clean laundry DAILY) and I also might do Dr. Scott in Ohio. Thanks for your honesty.

[lavendarJ]

Wow..... I just finished reading all of the threads related to this fasting place...Wow...

Like I said on the other thread, I had no idea about this place...glad to have all the views (both sides) though...

Wow..

[ihba0707]

I just came back from a month stay at Tanglewood fasting for 21 days and refeeding for 7 days.
I strongly believe in the power of water fasting however, I would NEVER go back to Tanglewood or any fasting place run by Loren Lockman. I would tell all my friends and family to look into another fasting restreat where they actually care about your healing progress than every penny they can make from you and the stress that is place if you don't follow Loren's way.
This is a man who is very rigid in his way of thinking .
Everyone that paid to go to Tanglewood went there to get heal, not to be put under a cult of Loren's way of living.
The stress that this man places on you if you don't follow his plans is absolutely crazy to pay money for.
In his library of books, there are no health books because he does not want us to read any for they are all wrong ....this is according to his words.

I wish I had found this thread before paying money to go to Tanglewood.

I just saw his website online and talked to him on the phone.
He sounds very motivated and caring and knowlegable. I was excited to go to Tanglewood. But this is a man who has a degree in Business and worked in Sales for a while before starting up a water fast center.
I have concluded that he is a SALES man, who is hungry for your money.
This is not a man who wants to help heal people.

Take what I have written for whatever you may want to take it.

All the 8 guests and I said we would NEVER come back to Tanglewood and that we woud NEVER recommend anyone to Tanglewood to encountere the kind of stress we did.
We are suppose to be healing,,,,instead we were placed under stressful conditions that we could have received at home for free !

I do believe Loren is a hypocrite.
He teaches non-violent communication but it is he who needs to practice it bc I have see his VERY VIOLENT verbal communication to the guests.
And the interns are too scare of him to speak up to him.
You can tell the interns there do not care too much for him.
And the interns are told to have a limit on how long they can talk to the guests and on what topics they can talk to the guest about.
Interesting huh???

[SchoolOfRAWk]

Wow.
I had a hunch.

As an aside, I feel very similar towards Creative Health Institute, where I lived for 7 months. It's a raw institute.

[Nancy Hone]

I fasted at Tanglewood for 6 weeks in late 2001. Everything you said today was true then to a T. We all had bad experiences and tried to tell the world about him. We tried to tell the raw food movement and they would not listen. We tried to tell the Natural Hygiene movement and they would not listen. We tried to tell public officials and they would not listen. Finally, and as we predicted, someone died there last year and still no one will listen.As a naturopath, I can also tell you that his lack of knowledge is only superceded by his ego and his abusive behavior. We used to call him the head idiot.
His dictatorial nature only emphasizes his ignorance. When will he be stopped? I pray every day that he can no long take advantage of another ill person who desperately is seeking help for their health and falls into his clutches at a weak moment of decision. He is a con artist that must be stopped. Please do not recommend him ever to anyone. Last note. As I read this website that is sprinkled with an occasional, and I note occasional, defense of this leech upon society I wonder if he himself wrote them. Think about that.

[kralcx]

I couldn't agree more. Very well written Nancy.

[Yammy]

Ok, now that I am safely out of Tanglewood and back in my safe little apartment, I would like to simply say this:

I personally do not recommend anyone go to Tanglewood to fast unless they are ok with fasting without a doctor present, and fasting in a location where interns have no means to get you to a hospital if something troublesome arises. You should also go to Tanglewood if you fancy being yelled while you are fasting and weak. I simply love the fact that Loren preaches radical honesty and non-violent communication...and then forgets to use those simple tools. (I got a kick out of this on a regular basis) I don't feel the man has ever told the truth. He even lied to my face when I confronted him on specific issues.

When we asked advice on how to cope with eating fruitarian back home (Canada), we would receive answers equivalent to "you come and live in the raw community I am making." Yeah...right. Not bloody likely. Thanks for the useful information... SARCASM! I was sick of his total garbage answers. I stopped going to lectures because I felt Loren got a big ego boost and I didn't want to give him the satisfaction. Ok, so my pride was involved too. I also didn't want the opportunity to see up his shorts like you can when he sits like he does...ewww.

Anyway, I remember a girl asking me to let her know how it went. My advice is to save your money. I hear True North in California is much better supervised. I'm going there next time I fast!

[lydias]

Yammy-

Thanks! that was me asking how it went. I didn't have the money to go anyway so I tried fasting on my own for 7 days. I did well while fasting but afterwards my cravings became worse then ever. I only did one enema and I think that was not good for me. I used to have more bm before the fast. I feel like my body has still not recovered and that was 3 weeks ago.

I know you fasted for a long time. So if you can let me know the benefits/disadvantages of fasting that long as you get home and settle in. I also gained all my weight back and then some probably.

Thanks again! Glad you are home safely!

[Yammy]

Well, I have been home for a week tomorrow, so that means it's been 16 days since I broke my fast. My digestive system is still not working properly, however, I started taking plant enzymes (cover all protein/carbs/fat) instead of my regular HCl every time I eat. So things are finally being digested! My friend is actually doing her Masters at UofT, dealing with the state of the intestine after you fast. She told me that our intestines start to kill off the villi when we fast, so it takes awhile before the gut gets back to normal afterwards. This does mean that our absorption should be better after a fast, providing our food is sufficiently broken down.

I have been eating raw since I got home and I've strayed twice with cooked food (took some extra enzymes!) I have started eating dates again, and my eczema is coming back (grr.) This tells me my gut definitely still has some lesions in it.

I fasted for 31 days, and I wish I went longer. I think I was close to some great healing, but I feel colonics/enemas would have been a great idea for me, provided the colon was repopulated afterward. I think water fasting is fabulous for giving the body time to heal itself. Instead of running out to get more perscriptions, what our body needs is to just be left alone so it can do its thing! But it's so much better to do it supervised instead of on your own (if it's a long fast). You really don't know what could come up. Just make sure, wherever you fast, that there are a sufficient number of QUALIFIED people ALWAYS around.

[lydias]

Tammy-

Don't we need the villi? I wonder why it kills of the villi during a fast. Is this what makes you more sensitive to everything? Interesting.

Wow, i can't believe you could of went longer. That's great! I went my 7 days on my own and I was bored out of my mind!!! I only did one enema and wish I had done them daily also but I guess I learned now!! I refed for another week and was actually weaker after the fast, probably still recovering.

I am learing that I have alot of food allergies even greens and fruit... so I think thats why mine was not that successful yet.

[durianrider]

putting cooked food in a body that has fasted?
why did you go and do that?
why put all that effort in and just put the garbage back in?
put your same distaste for loren to cooked food and youll be right! lol!
it will serve you better eh?

[durianrider]

bringing back food for other fasters..that can be fatal..
as we are learning..best we be raw vegan for a few years and get more info on fasting..then we should dive in with someone we have met in the flesh multiple times before..

fasting in an emotional experience..best we do it with people we know and trust.

[lydias]

When the hunger kicks in you are just starving for everything from my experience. Pluse i think depleted.

[Yammy]

Durianrider - I guess I'm just on my own journey, like we all are. Next time I fast (probably 18 months from now) I will be quite adament about what I put in my body after. It's a learning curve. I think overall I've been doing fabulous, and I am so proud of myself.

[freshlight]

just looked at the prices: $900,- for 1 week! Gosh have I been saving tons of money lately LOL
it just doesn't make any sense at all to pay for something that is free.
wow.....and the testimonies sound like a nightmare, amazing.

enjoy the freedom of a water fast, everyone :)

[lisamarieraw]

Durianrider - I guess I'm just on my own journey, like we all are. Next time I fast (probably 18 months from now) I will be quite adament about what I put in my body after. It's a learning curve. I think overall I've been doing fabulous, and I am so proud of myself.



and you should be proud of yourself!! the goal is not perfection but progress!
! i mean geez you fasted for 3o somethign days (on water?)...way, way, way, way more then most people can do