Who feeds his dog raw vegetarian/vegan?

[Linda1970]

and for how long? Is the dog healthy?

I don't have a dog but plan to get one. I already read all the posts here about raw & dogs. It's hard for me to imagine having raw meat around the house, so I'm wondering if it's possible to feed your dog raw vegetarian/vegan before I get one.

Thanks in advance.

[SchoolOfRAWk]

My best friend has 7 and does. They detoxed and are in stunning condition. They eat a lot of raw, too.

David Wolfe says it best. He feeds them raw vegan. If they want anything else, they go out and get it.

That's my philosophy, although I have no dog yet.

[Linda1970]

My best friend has 7 and does. They detoxed and are in stunning condition. They eat a lot of raw, too.

David Wolfe says it best. He feeds them raw vegan. If they want anything else, they go out and get it.

That's my philosophy, although I have no dog yet.

Thank you! I'm so happy to hear this because this will determine whether or not I may have a dog since I really don't want to handle raw meat.

[Solace]

My best friend has 7 and does. They detoxed and are in stunning condition. They eat a lot of raw, too.

David Wolfe says it best. He feeds them raw vegan. If they want anything else, they go out and get it.

That's my philosophy, although I have no dog yet.
He said he feeds his dog up to 4 avocado's a day. Big dogs can be expensive to feed WELL. I have a little dog now and am at least cooking brown rice-veggies and a little lamb, I add the olive oil at the end so its not cooked oil. I will try to start avocado soon.

[SchoolOfRAWk]

Big dogs can be expensive to feed WELL.

HILARIOUS. So true. And I want a ton. So, it'll be awhile.

[EastCoastie]

I have two doberman's (usually considered big dogs) and although we were feeding them the best dry food $ could buy, we recently switched them to a primarily raw food diet. They are just loving it. They were healthy and active before and their energy seems to be skyrocketing.

In all honesty, it isn't costing us that much more than their premium dry food.

They get meat 2x/day - about 12 ozs/serving. We order it from a local meat supply company and it is additive free (no hormones, etc.) To round out their diet, they get fresh or frozen fruit in the a.m., today it was blueberries. This morning they also got a bonus of 2 oz plain organic yogurt. Tonight they will be getting veggies along with their meat. So far we have discovered they like carrots, bok choy, cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage. They also get yummy home made doggie treats thanks to a good friend.

[Lay-Lay]

I did for awhile and then my dog started losing weight and he is already super skinny so my hubby started feeding him dog food again. :( Not my choice, but its his dog too!

[Solace]

I have 2 very big FAT dogs as well as a little one and 3 cats:confused: Here they are, my fat noisy dogs:D - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsWwwL01A40

[Lay-Lay]

I have 2 very big FAT dogs as well as a little one and 3 cats:confused: Here they are, my fat noisy dogs:D - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsWwwL01A40

I know I told my hubby he is probably just detoxing and he will probably gain it back soon, but he said the little guy has got to fatten up plus around the same time he got injured (not sure how) and he contributed it to that too! :rolleyes:

[kaybee]

Linda--

It is not raw, but it is vegetarian/vegan: there is a small book you can order over the internet called "vegetarian dogs"

http://www.vegetariandogs.com/

I have the book, and would give you more info, but its packed away in storage somewhere at the moment.
its a small book, but seems like a pretty complete and well-researched plan, and the "dog diet" in it seems to contain a good variety of ingredients, including some raw veggies, i believe. it also includes things like wheat germ oil, etc, and has example stories of dogs who have been fed this way.

As I said, it is not all-raw, but to me, ethically, I would prefer to feed this way than to feed meat. Also, there are several other options such as vegetarian/vegan dog food (both wet and dry), and there is also a supplement called "Vegedog" where you prepare recipes that come with the supplement that are made out of common ingredients and then prepare the supplement and its supposed to provide complete nutrition. However, the diet in the "Vegetarian dogs" book seemed much fresher and healthier to me.

I thought I read somewhere that alyssa fed her dog raw vegan....????? any details anyone?

good luck. i, too, would be interested in more details on feeding dogs raw vegetarian/vegan. I wonder though if you need to add enzymes and stuff to help them digest the raw veggies more thoroughly, as I dont think their stomachs are ideally designed for large amounts of raw plant protein??...??

kaybee

[maraw]

I've been feeding our dogs raw for a while now. They just love it. They are both pretty large dogs (55 and 65 lbs), and yet, I don't find the bill very high. They eat mostly veggies, nuts, seeds, and some fruit. I throw in raw salmon or sardines about twice to three times a week, and sometimes chicken necks. They also eat raw eggs with shells. It is my understanding they really need the bone in their diet. I know you can use supplements, but I have been really trying to give them all they need with just food. I also mix in avocado and olive oils probably twice a week as well.

My dogs went through a detox for about three weeks. It was kind of hard on them, but now they love their meals. In the morning, I also give our lab a banana. His snacks are dates and Brazil nuts. My friends and family just laugh, but no one can argue that standard commercial dog food is going to be healthier. I just let them laugh - I know my pups are happier for it.

Good luck!

[fruitcake]

I keep trying to start a compost heap, but my dog eats everything that I put in it except the coffee grounds.
She is a big dog, about 65lbs, and it will take a bit to feed her. I've been considering switching her to a raw diet since she seems to like my scraps, especially since I ralized she has a tumor in her tummy. I'm hoping that maybe that will help with that?

[Linda1970]

I have 2 very big FAT dogs as well as a little one and 3 cats:confused: Here they are, my fat noisy dogs:D - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsWwwL01A40

Are they both raw vegan/vegetarian?

[Linda1970]

Linda--

It is not raw, but it is vegetarian/vegan: there is a small book you can order over the internet called "vegetarian dogs"

http://www.vegetariandogs.com/

I have the book, and would give you more info, but its packed away in storage somewhere at the moment.
its a small book, but seems like a pretty complete and well-researched plan, and the "dog diet" in it seems to contain a good variety of ingredients, including some raw veggies, i believe. it also includes things like wheat germ oil, etc, and has example stories of dogs who have been fed this way.

As I said, it is not all-raw, but to me, ethically, I would prefer to feed this way than to feed meat. Also, there are several other options such as vegetarian/vegan dog food (both wet and dry), and there is also a supplement called "Vegedog" where you prepare recipes that come with the supplement that are made out of common ingredients and then prepare the supplement and its supposed to provide complete nutrition. However, the diet in the "Vegetarian dogs" book seemed much fresher and healthier to me.

I thought I read somewhere that alyssa fed her dog raw vegan....????? any details anyone?

good luck. i, too, would be interested in more details on feeding dogs raw vegetarian/vegan. I wonder though if you need to add enzymes and stuff to help them digest the raw veggies more thoroughly, as I dont think their stomachs are ideally designed for large amounts of raw plant protein??...??

kaybee

Thanks for this book recommendation, Kaybee. I will look into it.

[Linda1970]

THanks everyone for giving me your feedback. :)

I want to get a puppy because I want to start it all raw.

[Solace]

Are they both raw vegan/vegetarian?

Oh no, sorry. They are ANYTHING eaters. I think its an interesting concept- especially if you start the dog off that way. Big dogs like mine would cost more than feeding my own children. I am struggling with that and thats enough for me- as my kid yells for cheerios from the next room:rolleyes: .

Just feeding my little dog home cooked instead of bagged food. I am going to try the avocados on him though.:)

[kyrie]

Dogs are not human, have different nutritional needs, eg. taurine. To impose our own ethical constructs on them as a different species, and they are predators that would naturally eat meat in the wild to boot, is unrealistic, unnatural and cruel.

Carla

[Linda1970]

Dogs are not human, have different nutritional needs, eg. taurine. To impose our own ethical constructs on them as a different species, and they are predators that would naturally eat meat in the wild to boot, is unrealistic, unnatural and cruel.

Carla


Yah, I also read about this. So, I'm kind of confused. :confused: It seems that a few has fed dogs vegan, and the dogs are thriving. I don't know, this is really frustrating, and that is why I haven't gotten the dog yet.

[RowanC]

I agree with you, Carla. I've been watching this thread, sort of rolling my eyes and biting my tongue.

I think they're probably omnivores. In the wild, they'd eat other animals but would also eat fruits and grains and grasses.

I'd worry more about cats, which are definitely carnivores.

I don't know.. I wouldn't feed my dog a vegan diet. However, I've read accounts of people doing it and the dogs don't have problems... yet.

[portiz]

wild dogs and cats get their vegetative matter from the stomachs of animals they kill in the wild. i feed my two boxers raw, free-range chicken.
a brand of food they absolutly love (if you can't stand the thought of having meat in your fridge) is wysong. they sell this freeze dried stuff that my two love. it's a bit on the expensive side, but they're my babies and worth it. you can mix it with hot water and it forms a gravy. but they do love my fruits and veggies, especially when they come out of the dehydrator.

[jeannieh99]

My dogs went through a detox for about three weeks. It was kind of hard on them, but now they love their meals. In the morning, I also give our lab a banana. His snacks are dates and Brazil nuts. My friends and family just laugh, but no one can argue that standard commercial dog food is going to be healthier. I just let them laugh - I know my pups are happier for it.

Good luck!

I've been trying to introduce raw to my baby girl (wire hair terrier mix). She loves bananas. She really won't eat much other kinds of fruits. She will taste but if she doesn't like it she just plays with it. lol With all this dog food scare and all the recalls, I'd love to switch her over. I've been told that commercial dog food is balanced with all the right amount of enzymes, blah, blah, blah....but I know that I'd feel better if I could transition her into raw somehow. I am curious what kind of detox your dogs went through.
Also..do you know what is good for treating heart worms?
Jeannie:)

[Linda1970]

I've been thinking, if I feed my dog raw meat and he licks people, isn't that kind of dangerous? :confused: He can pass along dangerous bacteria.

[EastCoastie]

Wow, Linda, interesting point. As I mentioned earlier, we feed our dogs primarily raw (they get meat twice a day). I wipe their paws and mouths after they eat and haven't had a problem. My puppy is definitely a licker but we've had no problems at all and our dog comes into contact with a fair number of people daily (on average 10). (We have the blessing of taking our dogs to the office with us.)

I think part of the key to success with the dog's diet is the same as with us, paying attention to how they respond (after some time for adjustment, of course). My almost four year old Dobe girl is very picky, so although she is a FIEND for the raw meat and some fruits, she kind of just picks at the veggies. She does like some of the fruits more. My baby boy puppy on the other end is like "Mikey", he eats everything.

Good luck!

EC

[Solace]

Hay , my chihuahua likes the avocado!!!:D His name is Chilipeppers..........

[blueberrygirl]

just get the books about wild wolves, the dogs are related to wolves. it should give u ideas about what they really should eat. but dogs can eat almost everything, my uncle's dog like blueberries.

I think that dogs should have the meat at top of list then others after that.

meat is dogs' most natural food as well cats'.

:)

[portiz]

I got all of these from http://www.wysong.net :

http://www.wysong.net/dontbefooled/rawdeception.shtml

http://www.wysong.net/dontbefooled/dontgetit.shtml

http://www.wysong.net/frd.shtml

http://www.wysong.net/rawbones.shtml

[lafsalot]

I got all of these from http://www.wysong.net :

http://www.wysong.net/dontbefooled/rawdeception.shtml

http://www.wysong.net/dontbefooled/dontgetit.shtml

http://www.wysong.net/frd.shtml

http://www.wysong.net/rawbones.shtml

Hey Patti, glad your back!! Hope everything is working out for you ~ Cathy

[portiz]

Hey Patti, glad your back!! Hope everything is working out for you ~ Cathy

Yes, things are looking up, Cathy! Thank you for your thoughts! I tell you everything I've been through nothing helps as much as two boxers knocking you down trying to get to your face first. They are funny...they know when I'm sad or just plain tired so they'll snuggle up next to me; and when I'm in a good mood, they bring their toys over so I can play with them. It's the best to see them bolting across the yard like some crazed deer. They are just so full of energy and love. I know this RAW diet has helped them out a bunch. Zeus' shedding has been decreased substantially; Cleo's is minimal. But just the energy they have makes me concentrate on them.


I've been thinking, if I feed my dog raw meat and he licks people, isn't that kind of dangerous? He can pass along dangerous bacteria.

Note: I have read that avocado in large quantity is toxic to dogs.

OK...I let my dogs drink and eat off my plate and glasses...not necessarily after they eat raw chicken/meat, though. I know this grosses out the majority of you, but I know they're healthy and they're my dogs. They sleep in bed with me and the back seat of my crew cab toyota truck is THEIRS (so don't bother moving their toys or blankets to make room for you or your stuff!!) :o . The thought of them licking me being dangerous has never really crossed my mind.

Someone else has also said avocado is toxic to dogs. Can you tell me where you've read this? I know grapes/raisins are bad (I learned that first hand after Zeus threw up when I gave him several grapes), and of course, chocolate.
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/protect_your_pet_from_common_household_dangers/foods_potentially_poisonous_to_pets.html

[hungrygirl]

Someone else has also said avocado is toxic to dogs. Can you tell me where you've read this? I know grapes/raisins are bad (I learned that first hand after Zeus threw up when I gave him several grapes), and of course, chocolate.



My holistic vet said avocados are no good for dogs and read this link below:

http://diamondpaws.com/health/barfveg.htm

I always give my little best friend just a bite or two of every fruit I eat, so he is not missing out and I'm not poisoning him by feeding him something could be toxic to him.

[SchoolOfRAWk]

Dogs are not human, have different nutritional needs, eg. taurine. To impose our own ethical constructs on them as a different species, and they are predators that would naturally eat meat in the wild to boot, is unrealistic, unnatural and cruel.


This would be true if it were true that dogs NEEDED to eat animals. Cats need taurine much more.

What we're all forgetting is that unless you feed your dog raw organic meat, the most unethical and unnatural diet of all for a dog is not a raw or vegan diet it is a conventional dog food diet.....

Dogs just should not have been domesticated, honestly. We have created this mess, and along with it, the dilemma of how to feed them.

My dogs will be like David Wolfe's: raw vegan and if they want more, they'll hunt it themselves. Just like my dog growing up used to hunt....

[Linda1970]

Wow, Linda, interesting point. As I mentioned earlier, we feed our dogs primarily raw (they get meat twice a day). I wipe their paws and mouths after they eat and haven't had a problem. My puppy is definitely a licker but we've had no problems at all and our dog comes into contact with a fair number of people daily (on average 10). (We have the blessing of taking our dogs to the office with us.)

I think part of the key to success with the dog's diet is the same as with us, paying attention to how they respond (after some time for adjustment, of course). My almost four year old Dobe girl is very picky, so although she is a FIEND for the raw meat and some fruits, she kind of just picks at the veggies. She does like some of the fruits more. My baby boy puppy on the other end is like "Mikey", he eats everything.

Good luck!


EC
Thanks for the good luck, EC. And thanks for sharing.

[Linda1970]

just get the books about wild wolves, the dogs are related to wolves. it should give u ideas about what they really should eat. but dogs can eat almost everything, my uncle's dog like blueberries.

I think that dogs should have the meat at top of list then others after that.

meat is dogs' most natural food as well cats'.

:)

THanks for the book recommendation.

[Linda1970]

Dogs are not human, have different nutritional needs, eg. taurine. To impose our own ethical constructs on them as a different species, and they are predators that would naturally eat meat in the wild to boot, is unrealistic, unnatural and cruel.


This would be true if it were true that dogs NEEDED to eat animals. Cats need taurine much more.

What we're all forgetting is that unless you feed your dog raw organic meat, the most unethical and unnatural diet of all for a dog is not a raw or vegan diet it is a conventional dog food diet.....

Dogs just should not have been domesticated, honestly. We have created this mess, and along with it, the dilemma of how to feed them.

My dogs will be like David Wolfe's: raw vegan and if they want more, they'll hunt it themselves. Just like my dog growing up used to hunt....

THanks for this insight, Erica.

[kyrie]

Dogs let loose to hunt, will do just as much damage to a sensitive ecosystem, as would feral cats. Why should native animals be decimated, just because you want to indulge in an airy fairy ethical illusion with no basis in reality??????

Any dog you get is your reponsibility for life, period.

If you do not want to take responsibility for feeding a dog appropriately according to it's needs for this species, which is naturally a predator, then don't get a dog.

Anything else is highly irresponsible, and anything but ethical.

Carla.

[domestic goddess]

Thank you Kyrie.

I feed my dog a raw food diet that includes meet. I am vegan, and though this goes against everything *I* believe, I am not a dog. Dogs are carnivores. They are not intended to be veg or vegan. If a dog is doing well on that die, great but that is not what Mother Nature intended.

As far as letting my dog loose to hunt? Well, unless you live in the back woods of Maine or something, it seems incredibly irresponsible and dangerous. Rabies, anyone?

[chilove]

Hi there,

I agree with Carla and domestic goddess. I'm an ethical vegan and have been one for many years, but I have to acknowledge that dogs and cats are natural carnivores and need to be fed accordingly to be healthy. My dogs and cat and rats are all raw and are very healthy. The rats are vegan but the dogs and cat eat mostly meat. I feel that we have a responsibility to the animals that we care for to provide them with a diet that is natural to them.

Blessings,

Audrey
www.rawhealing.com

[Saeran]

I love dogs. I freakin' love dogs. I have been researching dogs and canine behavior and nutrition for decades. I have been reading this thread and am so grateful some people have spoken up for canines here. They are carnivores. They have a shorter intestinal tract, which allows them to eat raw meat without suffering the effects we would if we did the same. In the wild, the bulk of a canine's diet would come from kills--mostly raw meat, bone (bone--raw of course!--is very important to a dog's health!) and whatever was in the animal's stomach at the time--a small amount of vegetable and possibly fruit matter.

A giant pet peeve of mine is people who get dogs and then don't treat them with respect. A dog needs interaction, exercise, proper nutrition, and a caretaker who is selfless enough to do his/her research. As a devoted raw vegan myself, I find the most difficult aspect of the raw/vegan community is this intensely selfish attitude that what is best for me is best for my dog. I'm certain there are dogs who eat a raw vegan diet who seem to be thriving, but look around and you'll find humans who eat meat, dairy, and drink alcohol who appear to be thriving too.

Please, please don't get a dog if you aren't willing to give it what it needs to truly thrive and be healthy. If someone took you in as a child and threw cake, ice cream, cheeseburgers and pasta at you, you would eat it and like it even though it is not the proper diet for you. So please do your research. I'm sorry to say that David Wolfe is not a dog expert, and I highly doubt his research and expertise on the proper diet and nutrition of canines equals that of his knowledge of the same in humans, so don't look to him to advise you on this particular subject. Domestic dogs should not be expected to hunt for their only source of proper nutrition.

I feed my dogs the Bravo diet--it is prepared raw meat with ground bone and vegetable matter. I'm sure there are even better ways to do this, but I find that this works for me at the moment. Organic raw prepared meats are available if you are interested, but be prepared to pay with your firstborn.

I am a raw food vegan. I have tubes of meat in my freezer and I handle raw meat everyday. I wash my hands with soap and warm water afterwards, and wipe down my countertops. That's it. I have been doing this for over a year and have never had a problem with my health. My dogs don't necessarily lick their food, and then lick my mouth, so I really don't worry about the whole licking/raw meat health scare. Hasn't been a problem for me, or for any of the dozens of other dog owners I know who feed raw meat to their dogs.

Please, I can’t beg you enough. If you have or would like to get a dog, treat them with the respect you would want for yourself: don’t withhold what they need for optimum health. Having a dog is not a right. If you aren’t comfortable feeding raw meat, get a goldfish.

[dreamrawalwz]

I'm going to Whole Foods today to pick up some things including raw meats for my cats and dog. I'm just wondering how to store it? Do I get just enough or can I get a lot and freeze it and then thaw it throughout the night before I give it to them that day?

[Saeran]

I feed Bravo (http://www.bravorawdiet.com/) because it's just easier to get everything in there. I supplement the Bravo mix with salmon oil, and probiotics. In addition, I also feed a dog multi vitamin and glucosamine supplement.

If you feed raw meat, you need to also feed bone. You can feed entire pieces, but I have found that that can get messy, so it's best to do it outside. If you feed ground meat, you need to include bone meal (which I think you can get from a butcher though I'm not sure) or whole bones. The bones must be raw--cooked bones can splinter and that can cause injury or death in a dog. Raw bones should be big enough that the dog can't swallow them whole and choke, and you should always supervise a dog eating a raw bone. When feeding ground meat, I would also recommend including ground veggies--you can do this in your food processor and just mix it into the meat with a spoon.

Most dogs love fruits and vegetables, and these can be a welcome treat--much better than milk bones! Here is a list of foods that are toxic to dogs. This list includes many foods in found in the average raw food kitchen, like onion, garlic, macadamia nuts, grapes and raisins. I have read about many raw foodies feeding grapes to their dogs, so many may not be aware that grapes are dangerous to dogs
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1661&articleid=1030

[Eva]

OK... I just went to that list on peteducation.com, and I have been told over and over that garlic is good for ridding of fleas, and bones are good when not cooked, that raw eggs are good in the mix of other stuff... but this list contradicts all of those things.

It lists a lot of things that I hesitate to agree or disagree.

I would think that whoever wrote that (especially since they sell dry food on the site) may not be the most reliable source. They may just be marketing intelligently.

dream: This is pretty new to me, but I have been keeping the meat in the freezer, then keeping one or two servings in the fridge at any given time. It seems to work pretty well because I always have something thawed out. And twice now, I have made a mix of stuff in the blender (garlic, ground flax, water, cabbage, carrots) to a puree, then mixed it with the meat.

[Saeran]

I'm so glad that conversations like this are taking place. Yes, there is conflicting information out there--just as it is with us! (If I had a nickel for every time people told me cooked tomatoes were healthier than raw--sure, maybe, milk is good for bones--um, no, and meat is the best place to get protein--hmmm.)
Keep researching and learning and passing around what you know. I found a few more sites that might be of interest (with information regarding eggs too.) These sites include conflicting information--one even recommends avoiding feeding raw meat and raw eggs because of a risk of food poisoning and salmonella poisoning, though dogs just aren't really susceptible to this. Just as we weed through information about our own diet, we weed through this information too. Find all the information you can, and weigh the reliability of the sources.
Best,
Saeran

[Saeran]

http://www.totallyrawdogfood.com/faq.html
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/sampleraw.htm
http://www.starbreezes.com/11/foodsafe.html

[portiz]

www.boxerworld.com
Go to the forums and there is one section called BARF. There is a ton of information one can find on what you can or can't feed your dog.

www.wysong.net
Also has tons of information...when I can afford it, I buy the wysong brand dog food. There are canned, dry kibble, and freeze dried foods for both dogs and cats, and all kinds of supplements if your pet needs it. It cost me about $80 (+S&H) to deliver about 2-3 weeks worth of food. If I can't, I'll buy leg quarters or whole cut up chicken (free-range or organic), and feed them that with dry kibble/hot water according to their weight. Both dogs are very healthy and their coats are shiny. I've gotten alot of compliments on Cleo's physique.

[belleadonna]

Dogs are carnivores.

Technically this is not true. Dogs are omnivores (they eat anything). Only cats are true carnivores. Sorry to interupt. Back to your regular programming.

[Saeran]

Hi Belleadonna-
Thanks for posting this. I am interested in where you got your information, as this differs from what I know scientifically of canids.

Here is an excerpt from the San Diego Natural History Museum website:
"The earliest dog-like animals appear in the fossil record about 40 million years ago, during the Eocene Epoch of the Cenozoic Era. Today, there are 35 living species of wild and domestic dogs. This group includes wolves, the coyote, foxes, and jackals, as well as the domestic dog.
The dog family is called Canidae. Members of the dog family are canids. All canids are carnivores and well-adapted for hunting."

http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html
http://www.sdnhm.org/kids/dogs/canids.html
http://www.dogtorj.net/id51.html

saeran

[Eva]

saeran: Those sites seemed a bit better! You are so right about all of the conflicting sources out there, not to mention that anyone with an extra $10 a month or so can host a web site and pretend to be an expert!!!!

For anyone who cares: My dog has been raw for almost a week (I think!), and he does not have the same propensity toward icky teeth. I've been told for his whole life that his "genetics" make his teeth more prone toward cavities or gingivitis or whatever. He LITERALLY needs his teeth brushed every day for them to not become gross, and he still has had two cleanings (he's five) where they had to put him down to clean his teeth really well.

His teeth are getting BETTER, and I haven't been brushing them this week!!!!!! He's been eating raw meat, bones and all, along with a mix of veggies and ground flax every other day. I also let him have some of my green smoothie today, which he LOVED so we'll do that again!