Barf!!!!!

[VeganVixen]

heres something that might help your pets.......

BARF!!!!! Biologically appropriate raw food!!!hehehe I KNEW WHAT YOU WERE THINKING!!!!!LOL -RAW foods for cats and dogs ***note this is not vegan ,is however homemade and healthy***


its a non selling site that gives you the info you and your pets need!!!!

although I am vegan I would not force it upon my carnivorous/omnivorous pets dogs CAN do well w/only eggs but cats especially NEED the vitamins ,minerals and oils found ONLY in meat and animal PRODUCTS-however this does NOT mean the junk that you get in the big ol bags AND THEY CAN HAVE VEGGIES!!!

You should add what they have been eating at first and slowly decrease the amount.


http://www.touchmoon.com/dotters/raw/index.shtml


hope your pets like the barf!!!!!hehe

[VeganVixen]

you can make raw nut-based yogurts

[Wendy]

I disagree. I researched both BARF and vegetarian/vegan diets for my standard poodle before I even got him. I was willing to go BARF even though handling meat is disgusting to me.

I found out vegetarian, especially vegan, dogs life longer with less disease if their diet is carefully done. I went to www.vegepets.com and got the dog supplement for vegetarian diets and used their free recipes. Jasper gets flaxseed oil, enzymes, the vegetarian supplement (VegeDog), nutritional yeast, and another supplement. I make his basic recipe in my breadmaker and he loves it.

There are vegan and vegetarian cats that do just great. You can check out the site for stories and pics. Jasper's is there too.

What helped seal the deal was an article I read about a 27 year old border collie, Brambles. That was a couple of years ago. He is totally vegan.

[VeganVixen]

HUH, thats good to know-all the vegetarian(let alone vegan) cats I know of have gone blind and have had muscle problems -I have heard of veggie dogs that do fine but I believe that they are omnivores and shouldnt be forced into my lifestyle-cats I believe are primarily carnivores with a natural hunting instinct -I would personally not give my cats (or dogs) a synthetic product to make up a defeiciency......but I am intrigued about the idea (I hate having meat in the house)


my dog is a vegetarian -so she eats eggs -my cats kill a ton of mice but they also get talapia/raw foods and organic cat food plus omega fish oils (my daddoes the grunt work hes not vegan ,lol one of the only pluses to a vegan living in a non vegan house!)

I would love to hear anyone elses solution to this dilema (vegan pet owners)

[Autumn]

About two years ago I belonged to a raw-pet food Yahoo group, but I never got into it, really. If I had a cat, I might have pursued it. I didn't feel it was necessary (or especially safe) for my dog, after doing more research and talking to a few vet professionals and other dog caretakers. JMO, of course.

[Sharon in Colorado]

I didn't feel it was necessary (or especially safe) for my dog, after doing more research and talking to a few vet professionals and other dog caretakers. JMO, of course.

Autumn, do you mean the raw meat wasn't necessary for your dog? What did you find out about it that made you change your mind? Curious, I have always thought about BARF for my dog but never sure because of the extra expense.

[tracyinfo]

We have two beautiful healthy vegan dogs. We feed them a vegan dry food, and they sometimes get scraps (vegan) from our children's plates.

They are thriving dogs!

-Tracy

[Autumn]

Sharon,
Yes, I didn't feel that raw meat was necessary, or especially beneficial for her. I heard so very many conflicting reports (sort of like we do with our Raw). Many people in vet services think it is dangerous (but then again, many of our MDs think it is dangerous for us to eat Raw). (Plus I must admit that the raw recipes they spoke of on that board really grossed me out!) Mandy eats a lot of veggies (raw and steamed) and loves them. She is happy, healthy, extremely sweet tempered; her bowel movements are excellent and her coat is decent for her age.

[VeganVixen]

Do the vegans on here think that it is ethical to feed a cat or dog meat?Lke I said I do live with two non-vegans (so eggs and fish are in my house anyways)-I personally dont feel its right to push my veganism on my obviousley meat eating cat......

please note that I am not dighting or trying to start a fight I would just like to know everyones stance.....

Im glad to hear that your dogs are doing great tracy -but I have yet to see a healthy vegan cat who doesnt have to take synthetic proteins and vitamins
(and if so are they truly vegan ,do they eat insects or rodents when no one is looking?)

[Wendy]

Yes, a cat has to have synthetic vitamins or other nutrients (like carnitine and taurine). To me that's not a big deal compared with animals suffering in the factory farms that make up pet food. I also believe it is bad karma to eat dead animals, so it is a spiritual as well as ethical issue for me.

I do think that one day the world will evolve so that animals can all be vegetarians again, but hey, I 'm weird.

[VeganVixen]

Yes, a cat has to have synthetic vitamins or other nutrients (like carnitine and taurine). To me that's not a big deal compared with animals suffering in the factory farms that make up pet food. I also believe it is bad karma to eat dead animals, so it is a spiritual as well as ethical issue for me.

I do think that one day the world will evolve so that animals can all be vegetarians again, but hey, I 'm weird.


just so you know I feel the same way -I just wont push it onto my carnivorous animals-anyways I feed my cat sea caught fish -and the kill a ton of mice(poor mice,but its the circle of life yadda yadda...) - so no animals in factories here - also my dogs eggs are free range (I dont know how long that will last since I am a poor student,lol) but for now I give them the best diet possible-nothing from a bag!

just wanted you to know that I am a vegan !!!!!!and dont support animal suffering!!!!

[Wendy]

That's good that you are giving them high quality food. However, I do not feel like it is "pushing" it upon a cat or dog to feed them vegan or vegetarian. We all make choices for our pets. You can see pics and stories of vegan cats at the link I posted, proof that people have successfully fed their animals this way without harm.

[rayelynn]

Actually, all of my animals eat BARF. They all get raw meat daily and their health has skyrocketed!!

The biggest change is in the great dane who was suffering from Hip Dysplasia and Urinary Incontinence. She would SCREAM when getting off the couch cause of the pain. Since she has been raw, she jumps over the coffee table to play again with her little brother. She has no problems with her urine now either. Its the best thing I have ever done for my animals.

Sorry, but the changes in my pets make me a huge advocate of this food.

They have been raw for 2 years and I am finally moving toward the same for myself. :-)

Raye Lynn

[VeganVixen]

thats so good to hear!Im glad your including yourself now ,this is an incredible way of living!

[Raw Jewelrylady]

I'm so glad this topic is being discussed. I have 2 toy poodles 5-6 pounds each. They are finicky eaters :rolleyes: (They have a Diva attitude. ) Poodle owners know what I mean.
Anyways, I buy them the most expensive, all natural canned food & the ingrediants are basically what I'm eating except for the meat. I am vegan, but my thinking is that all dogs, (yes even my little foo/foo poodles )did descend fromthe wolf. I would probably want to give them Raw meat.

I also like the info I have been reading on how it helps there teeth (Bones) My question, is Salmonella...Raw chicken -just really scares me, Raw beef, you have e-coli, mad cow, etc. I love not having that stuff around.

My dogs do kiss us on the face/not lips, I was even wondering about cross/contamination. What do you all think ??? :confused:

I would appreciate any input. I have one poodle who is 12-great health, but stays thin, my other is 3, eats very little, could lose a pound. Thanks for any input,
Lana Q

[VeganVixen]

heeheee my goldie (a red headed TOY POODLE,love her!) eats eggs some chicken and scraps from my non-veg sad parents (they slip her stuff alot,only because she is SO cute -but mostly veggies and eggs ,I think that you are right I have worked at a wolf rescue facility and they eat whole raw chickens! and dont "expel" a lot because there body uses most of the food -those wolves could NEVER be vegan,a dogs system is different than ours and salmonilla doesnt bother them likeb us (im not sure aboutbeef-howevwever) I do think the cross contamination is a problem if there is contact right after eating ,I remember hearing that dog saliva is very antibacterial,thats why they lick wounds and the thought of chicken slobber doesnt sound to good (cooked or raw)


I WOULD NOT DO PORK !!!THOUGH


.....so If you did that I would wait a few hours after they eat....

[carolg]

Sharon,
Check out I believe called ColoradoBarfers. Great group and yes I feed 2 dogs raw meat, but not organic. It's not bad for prices either...they are doing fabulous..no kidding...email me if you need more info. for sites, etc....

carol

[rayelynn]

I have to say that out of the 2 years of feeding our dogs and cats a BARF diet, we have never had a problem with cross contamination. We feed outside, but cut the meat in the kitchen (but mostly they eat the whole thing anyway and not much cutting is involved.) We clean we afterward. They all sleep with us, lay with us, play with us, etc... There has never been an instance of any food related illness at all. (with us or the animals). Their mouths are very clean and have antibacterial properties to them...(the dogs). We dont encourage licking, however to be safe.

Let me know if I can help at all.

Raye Lynn

[rayelynn]

I dont feed pork.

[Raw Jewelrylady]

Thanks for the info. How about the bones for my tiny dogs. We were afraid of them choking. They are only 5-6 pound each. Very little dogs. Also, they would never eat outside, so what about the mess-raw bones. :confused:

They do sleep w/us, cuddle, etc. I know about the antibacterial saliva-thing, but I don't know if I could stop them from the "kisses" :p We don't let them kiss us on the mouth, but they do kiss our face, to wake us up & show love :D (I think).
Poodles don't think they are dogs, they are soooooo different. I just want to do what is best for them. I would never give them pork, but I did feed them lamb before, as they do have sensitive stomachs. What do you think? :confused: Thanks,
Lana

[VeganVixen]

Thanks for the info. How about the bones for my tiny dogs. We were afraid of them choking. They are only 5-6 pound each. Very little dogs. Also, they would never eat outside, so what about the mess-raw bones. :confused:

They do sleep w/us, cuddle, etc. I know about the antibacterial saliva-thing, but I don't know if I could stop them from the "kisses" :p We don't let them kiss us on the mouth, but they do kiss our face, to wake us up & show love :D (I think).
Poodles don't think they are dogs, they are soooooo different. I just want to do what is best for them. I would never give them pork, but I did feed them lamb before, as they do have sensitive stomachs. What do you think? :confused: Thanks,
Lana


fowl bones are bad -they splinter ,so only do beef bones....I think lamb is ok -but the reason I said pork is the parasite that is found in raw pork


poodles are great -they are SUCH comedians -they WANT to make you laugh ,like clowns -lol mine looks and acts like lucille ball!!!

[Raw Jewelrylady]

fowl bones are bad -they splinter ,so only do beef bones....I think lamb is ok -but the reason I said pork is the parasite that is found in raw pork


poodles are great -they are SUCH comedians -they WANT to make you laugh ,like clowns -lol mine looks and acts like lucille ball!!!

I agree, my 2 poodles are very "clownish." In fact, in researching the breed, that is a very common characteristic.

I think what I will do is start to make RAW treats (Vegan) in my dehydrater w/fresh veggies, sprouts. I am not ready to do raw meat, but the special treats should be great for them.
I'll let you all now what I use & how the girls like them. Thanks
Lana Q. :p

[VeganVixen]

I agree, my 2 poodles are very "clownish." In fact, in researching the breed, that is a very common characteristic.

I think what I will do is start to make RAW treats (Vegan) in my dehydrater w/fresh veggies, sprouts. I am not ready to do raw meat, but the special treats should be great for them.
I'll let you all now what I use & how the girls like them. Thanks
Lana Q. :p

here is my baby(LOL shes grabbed a shoe her bed also doubles as a "half done painting storage space)

[Raw Jewelrylady]

here is my baby(LOL shes grabbed a shoe her bed also doubles as a "half done painting storage space)

Hi Veganvixen,
My Casey Marie is a Red-Toy -but more Apricot now, (lightens as she ages.) Starlett Sue is a Blue/Black. they are both adorable.
Goldie has that same clownish grin as my girls do.
Thanks for all the info on the "Barf" diet. I'll keep everyone posted on How the poodles do.
Thanks again for the photos, They made my day. Take care, :) Lana Q.

Ps. I'll try & Private Message some photos to you. :o I just have to learn this system . :eek:

[Ahimsa]

It's almost impossible to get trichomonas from uncooked domestic/factory farmed pork. The incidence of infection in 1995 was .013% (in the actual meat of the animal). Pig farmers have developed new ways to feed their pigs in order to basically eliminate trich. They have certification for this type of thing also, and some (or all?) of pork is irradiated, which kills trich. Here's a link: http://extfcs.sdstate.edu/foodsafety/new%20fs%20website/Producer%20Publications/Trich.htm

My dogs (dobermann) all get fed BARF and that includes beef (marrow steaks/bones, kidney, heart, liver) and pork (neck, rib tips, butt). The oldest (14) has been raw for 4 years and has had no problems, the other two, 3.5 and 2 have been raw since six weeks and have not had any problems either. They love it. When we first started to feed raw the oldest male (now deceased) would lay on the ground whining and shaking in anticipation. That NEVER happened in all his 10 previous years on kibble. My dogs do not shed nearly as much eating this way, their teeth are beautiful, they do not have nearly the amount of intestinal upset (when fed kibble you could barely sleep at night due to the smell!) and they NEVER have bad breath.

Viva la BARF :)

[Wendy]

I believe you should feed whatever you believe. My vegetarian dog is also extremely healthy, right weight, white teeth.

I do not believe a domesticated dog is that related to a wolf that they have to be fed like wolves. They have been domesticated thousands of years with humans. My thoughts are always, the proof is in the pudding. If you have a dog on BARF or vegetarian or vegan, and they are healthy, then keep doing what you are doing.

[Ahimsa]

Hey Wendy-
I'm not trying to say that veg or vegan is bad at all, each to their own, it's their pets and that is totally their decision. I was just sharing with the other BARFers that raw pork really isn't a problem.

But you have to remember that yes, dogs have been domesticated, but commercial dog food has only been around for about the last 50 years. That means that before this point dogs at mostly 1) table scraps, 2) odd parts of the animal not used for cooking, or 3) left to hunt for food on their own (much like people do with barn cats). I don't really believe that their digestive tracts could have changed that much during the 50 years they've been eating dog food. This is all just my opinion of course :) As I stated above, feed your dog what you feel is the healthiest :)

[Wendy]

I am not saying domestic dogs have changed in 50 years, I am saying they have changed in the thousands of years that they have been with man.

I am not offended or anything by your post. You know, it's kinda like SAD. People can live on SAD, but doesn't mean it's the optimum diet. Although I get what you are saying (the premise that dogs are related to wolves and should eat a wolf diet), my response to that is that they are not wolves.

That's all.

I also believe if you do vegetarian or vegan right, you can have healthy happy dogs and cats.

[Sparkle]

I started my dog and 4 cats on the BARF diet a month or so ago. My fat, lazy cats are lean, energetic and their fur is so soft. My dog looks forward to his meals and is slowly losing his excess weight. He's a min. schnauzer/dachsund mix - so little and thick.

The best thing I noticed was that the cat boxes stopped stinking and the doggie droppings outside are not smelly and are not mushy. Sorry to be gross but this is a true benefit for the family doodoo picker upper - which would be me.

Preparing the cat food is so time consuming and I couldn't keep up with my 2 kittens' needs (financially or time-wise) so they've been switched back to kitty SAD until they're grown up. Boy do the cat boxes stink again and I now notice how much water they drink. Not to mention they're always hungry - can't get full. I know that's nutritional so I'm starting to add more raw back in. Kittens are truly eating machines!

I would love to consider a veggie diet for the cats but I am not yet convinced, although I will read up on the link posted. Just as I believe that humans are built to thrive on a raw vegan diet, feline systems - teeth, digestion seem geared towards I a carnivorous diet. Ideally live mice, birds, etc. And just as we can survive many, many years on a SAD, most pets can survive on commercial food as well.

The question comes down to quality of life and the need for medical intervention throughout life. Look at the toothbrushes necessary for domesticated animals. Does that make sense?

Great thread. And please note that I do not mean to offend anyone. Just my thoughts.