I worry for those doing the MC [Archive]

Solace

04-15-2007, 12:46 PM

I am also attaching an artical I found by Dr. Weil.:cool: Master Cleanse" is a perennially appearing restricted diet that requires you to drink a mixture of lemon juice, maple syrup, cayenne pepper and water anywhere from six to 12 times a day and eat nothing else. This one is a real oldie. It was created in the 1940s supposedly as a treatment for ulcers and came into style in the 1970s after publication of the book The Master Cleanser by Stanley Burroughs, who devised the program. The latest surge of attention came after singer/actress Beyoncé Knowles told Oprah Winfrey on television that she had used the fast to drop 20 pounds in preparation for her role in the movie "Dreamgirls."

Ms. Knowles has reportedly regained the weight, as have most of the dieters who have enthused in print about how fast you can lose weight guzzling the sweet-sour-spicy concoction. I can tell you that there's nothing special about Master Cleanse that promotes weight loss - it works because you're consuming far fewer calories than you would to maintain your weight. If you follow the program, you're also supposed to drink a laxative tea in the evening and a combination of water and sea salt in the morning to promote waste removal - I'm told that if you do that, you had better not stray too far from a bathroom.

I first came across the Master Cleanse in the 1970s and tried it a few times, once for a week. Back then it was not promoted as a way to drop pounds but rather to give the digestive system a rest and remove toxins from the system. It's not really a fast, because you are taking in calories. I'm not opposed to cleansing regimens of this sort. They may be useful, may make you feel good, and give you a chance to think about what you are putting into your body.

But fasting and near-fasting routines such as the Master Cleanse are not effective weight loss tools - they alter your metabolism in a way that actually may make it harder for you to lose weight or easier to regain the weight once you go back to the way you normally eat. Most people compensate for the deprivation of the regimen by increasing their caloric consumption afterward.

If you really want to lose weight, forget about drinking lemon juice and maple syrup and learn the basic facts about nutrition and optimal health, including the glycemic index, anti-inflammatory diet, and recognize any unhealthy relationships with food.

firsttimer

04-15-2007, 01:57 PM

Hi Solace,

Thank you for taking the time to post, I understand your worries and really do appreciate that you are posting because you want to look out for other forumnites. As someone's who's on her third master cleanse, I hope that I am experienced enough to comment.

I am guessing that your posts are in response to the recent Master Cleanse thread which has been started in this forum. Firstly, I want to reassure you that no one on this board has been promoting the MC to newcomers, all the people in that thread have either already done a master cleanse before, are already on it, or are newbies who suggested it in the first place without prompt. We are purely there to support each other now that we've all independently decided to embark on the cleanse.

Secondly, you have made some very good points which are important for anyone who's considering the cleanse. I would agree that the MC wont have the greatest benefits if you are already eating on a mostly raw diet. I fully support that if you are eating a 100% raw diet, there is probably very little you need to change.

However, a lot of people find starting on a raw diet to be extremely difficult, and there are a lot of failed attempts. A lot of the fellow MCers have tried the raw diet but end up bingeing/with no success and disheartened with the whole concept. I think the Master Cleanse is perfect for overcoming this, and from what I've read, the greatest incentive of the cleanse is starting a healthier and raw lifestyle. The weight loss is just a bonus. It sort of acts as a stepping stone for those who are having trouble. The article you quoted reflects this perfectly. Cleanses like the MC "give you a chance to think about what you are putting into your body." After the cleanse, most people feel "clean" and the last thing they will do is stuff a twinkie down their throats. The first thing they'll do is grab for the fresh raw goodness.

Your post also highlights how breaking the cleanse is just as important as the cleanse itself. It is estimated that cleansers can re-gain up to half the weight lost due to water retention and the intestines start filling up again (but the inches will still be gone). Like any fast, if you eat badly when you break the cleanse, you will re-gain the weight faster. You'll probably gain more back too. But after the cleanse, most cravings for the standard SAD will be gone, and you'll want to follow a healthier lifestyle. I know many people who've kept off the weight after the cleanse by following a healthier diet, myself included. I've also broken a cleanse badly and re-gained the lost weight too.

For those who are looking at the MC primarily for weight loss - I won't lie - weight loss is rapid on this cleanse. However, the biggest factor in weight loss will be if you break the cleanse properly and if you follow a healthier lifestyle afterwards.

I think the master cleanse complements the raw lifestyle by "jumpstarting" the body and preparing the mind and body for a raw outlook. I know so many MCers who have gone on 100% raw plans post-cleanse.

As for the MC vs. juicing. I would love to be able to go on juice fasts. However, I've always failed because juices tend to reawaken the digestive system leaving me feeling starving. Somehow the lemonade really does suppress the appetite, so success is easier (in my case anyway).

There are definitely undesirable side effects - the heavy detoxing (but you'll get this with other fasting too), the affects on teeth (though this can be overcome by using a straw), and your metabolism will slow down (but this can be minimised by remaining reasonably active during the cleanse).

However, I've had some fantastic benefits from the cleanse. On all the cleanses, my eczema goes so I don't have to use steroids daily anymore. It also gets rid of my candida overload which I've always struggled with.

Solace, I hope this post has given you some insight into the cleanse, even if it hasn't changed your opinion about it. You've raised some important questions and I hope I've answered them.

I'm very much a believer that you can't completely disregard something if you haven't tried it. For example, if I went and posted about a 100% raw lifestyle on a stereotypical normal diet forum, I would probably get shot down. In a way it makes sense for the MC to be a bit of an 'unknown' in this forum, maybe we should be posting somewhere else, but I guess we all chose this place because everyone is so supportive.

Solace

04-15-2007, 02:21 PM

Firsttimer,Thanks for posting a response, I know how you feel I have been reading over all of the MC posts for months now but to me what you have said here does not change anything. I know you say the people who are posting on your thread know what they are doing but what about those ho dont post on here and just read ? I think it gives the sense that this is something recommended in the RAW community and by Alissa ! Alissa please if you read this I think it needs to be cleared up ! I don't believe that Alissa supports this or anyone else LIKE David Wolfe and others FOR GOOD REASON. Anyways, the part you posted about Juicing not working for you HAS been descussed in many raw food books and in Angela Stokes 92 day juice feasting E-book. It has to be done right!!!. Honestly if this were my Raw food community I would recommend not having threads promoting long term MC cleanses. I know if you talk to Naturopathic Doctors or Chinese med doctors you will get the same reaction about it really not being benificial long term at all. As for the LEMON part it is also something that should be used in smaller amounts. Lemons in high doses can have a nagitive impact on teeth and bones and joints as well. I still really feel it is unhealthy LONG term and should be looked into carefully. Peace

Solace

04-15-2007, 02:45 PM

I just wanted to add.... Lemons in a perfectly clean body might be fine in Large amounts- but in bodies that are already acidy to begin with adding to that in high amounts over a long term from what i have heard, from people who understand how it works in the body - is potentially very dangerous ! My Naturopath/chinese md, knew an older man personally who was mostly on raw and was trying to follow advice given by someone....= He was told to drink llllllllarge amounts of lemon juice for days at a time, this man was also elderly with many health issues. He died soon after= with his knee's swollen like foot balls and the cartilage and joints desinagrated beneath them !!!! She very much believed it was do to the large amounts of lemons - in an already acidic body= that pushed him over the edge. Please be carefull

misslinda

04-15-2007, 02:47 PM

I sensed this typed of thread coming. I'm glad you posted your concerns Solace, I'll be glad to respond here shortly as well.

:)

misslinda

04-15-2007, 02:52 PM

We don't know the full direct details of this [elderly] many who already had many health issues. Again, if he was attempting to do a cleanse--under his conditions, he should have consulted with a practitioner. Lemons actually turn alkaline once it enters the mouth.

Too much of anything is [IMBALANCING].

vegggeeemom

04-15-2007, 02:56 PM

firsttimer

04-15-2007, 03:15 PM

Hi everyone again,

Thanks for replying - reading everyone's thoughts has been interesting/enlightening and I think this is a discussion which needs to be had.

re: the man who died by drinking lots of lemon juice - i can't comment on the situation but all i can say is that so many factors can contribute to something like that. i mean we are bound to find people who have died on water fasts, juice fasts etc. but that doesn't mean anything really. Solace, like you said, juice fasting has to be done correctly. The same applies to the MC.

As for whether these threads concerning the MC should be deleted - obviously this is out of my hands. Personally, I think the issues raised here are important. And at the end of the day, "the choice is up to what feels right to the individual" (the first thing a member of this board said to me upon my arrival).

I don't know if we have more to discuss as both parties seem pretty adamant to sticking by their guns (and I respect that).

Maybe as a compromise the mods could sticky a "concerns about the MC" thread but members would still be able to post? As I said before, this is not my decision though and I wouldn't want to go against the beliefs of the owner if that's what she wanted. I noticed vegemom is leaving the decision to the mods and I'm cool with that.

If people are feeling uncomfortable with posting on this board about the MC, then I am more than willing to direct people to a different online raw community who fully support the master cleanse. Just let me know if you would prefer this.

I'm not sure if the intention of this thread was to delete all the threads concerning the MC/supporting the people on the cleanse. If so, I think it is a shame but understand your decision.

star1919

04-15-2007, 03:17 PM

[B]Firsttimer,Thanks for posting a response, I know how you feel I have been reading over all of the MC posts for months now but to me what you have said here does not change anything. I know you say the people who are posting on your thread know what they are doing but what about those ho dont post on here and just read ? I think it gives the sense that this is something recommended in the RAW community... Honestly if this were my Raw food community I would recommend not having threads promoting long term MC cleanses. I know if you talk to Naturopathic Doctors or Chinese med doctors you will get the same reaction about it really not being benificial long term at all. As for the LEMON part it is also something that should be used in smaller amounts. Lemons in high doses can have a nagitive impact on teeth and bones and joints as well. I still really feel it is unhealthy LONG term and should be looked into carefully. Peace

Solace... sounds like you're very concerned about the MC cleanses. I can appreciate that, and that you care about the welfare of others. Which, is to be admired. However, there are a few things you might consider... regarding freedom of information, choices.

For example, there are other things that may not be regarded as fully raw yet, some choose to include them in their raw journeys... like cashews, agave, miso etc. And, it is wonderful that we have the freedom to make individual choices and still participate with support, sharing ideas. It doesn't force everyone to partake in the same things yet, offers a community that can be open, supportive of each other. That is part of freedom, responsibility, respect. To simply restrict this, doesn't truly honor the whole community.

As for the MC Cleanse information being old. There are other materials that come from earlier times yet, are respected resources. For example, N. W. Walker's book about 'Raw Vegetable Juices' that was first published in 1936... and others. Simply put, it seems wiser to value the journeys, wisdom of each other even, if what we 'choose' for ourselves varies within this community. There is a responsibility each of us has in our food, juicing, fasting choices. It can be helpful to allow those different viewpoints to be discussed, respected. Rather, than silenced.

Personally, I haven't been doing the MC Cleanse. But, in the past have. I can appreciate the positives of people that are choosing this path presently. You've been good to share your concerns for those that are considering this cleanse. It may be helpful to them. And, surely should be honored in your choice to share it, and be heard. That is part of a forum, sharing our views even if they aren't the same. We can all grow in that.

Lastly, for those concerned about tooth enamel and this cleanse. Perhaps drinking it from a straw would be helpful. May each of us be honored in our choices, viewpoints, and raw journeys.

Wishing everyone a positive day! :D

Solace

04-15-2007, 03:17 PM

Ok, no need to try and steer me f/ doing the MC and reporting about here.

I should have known. I never should have brought it up on here and I will step back once again...I don't want to bring disharmony to the board.

Thank you for pointing this out and that I am intruding on territory that isn't mine to intrude on.

I will ask the mods to remove my post if that will help you all get back to the way it was before I posted about the MC. It was very hard for me to decide to do this post today because I also do not like being discouraging In ANY WAY> this had bothered me over and over again. There are sooo many people who come on here having NEVER read a RAW book in their lives= and they come here to see what everyone else is doing. If its not something that is promoted by the Raw community in general I think it should be avoided. Again sorry and peace, please. Misslinda, the lemon thing is still up for debate by many = on its effects in large amounts in an unhealthy body and most of us on here are still ridding ourselves of toxins and sicknesses. The MC promotes high amounts of lemons over a long term and its very concerning. This man I mentioned, this is a long story and I just covered part of it. He was studied by Naturopathic doctors and they all agreed,,,,, ???

Solace

04-15-2007, 03:26 PM

AND NO, I did not start this post/thread to get any other thread deleted - I made my point and thats all I wanted to do, I would LOVE to know Alissa's view on this but she may choose not to give one and thats fine. I just think it really needed to be addressed= especially for those who don't do their own research. Again Peace and much love Friends

vegggeeemom

04-15-2007, 03:31 PM

It's ok...I won't continue posting about the MC here and understand your concerns. I didn't think that is why you posted it it's just that you were concerned about newbies. Understandable.

Firsttimer..can you post the link or something in the MC thread where we can go to post at?

Thanks and peace and blessings to all. :)

Solace

04-15-2007, 04:51 PM

Just adding a piece I found on different people in the healthfood communty debating cleansing...Tree of Life Rejuvenation Center
Viewpoint: Physical toxins accumulate in many ways: The food we eat, the environment we live in and daily emotional stresses all contribute to stored toxins in our system. We have found juice fasting to be the best and safest method to allow for cleansing while still maintaining energy and rejuvenation levels. These programs promote autolysis, which involves the body digesting its own dead and dying cells. Juice feasting (green juice) can help people who are overweight, have arthritis, acid reflux, chronic pain, high cholesterol, hypertension and heart disease.
Detox method: It specializes in vegan live food nutrition, spiritual fasts and meditation. It also offers Personal Detoxification Programs where guests can do medically supervised juice fasts and feasts. END

Revvell

04-15-2007, 07:18 PM

I agree about the MC yet, it's not my business what others do.

I've stated here before how people live... going from one extreme to the other. They'll go from eating (overeating) to fasting. Makes no sense yet... what to do?

My experience... I did the MC and had a very bad reaction to it. Couldn't stay awake.. slept during the day as though I were drugged... guess I was. :p

As Linda says, lemons... and other citrus... turn alkaline in the body.

For me, I like what Victoria said.. the body needs fiber and elimination (detox) "should" go through the bowels.. not the skin and other orifices.. One way to do that is to drink green SMOOTHIES (not juicing) for 2-3 months (I'm thinking she's meaning eat "regularly" at the same time) and then the body will naturally transition to wanting more fruits and veggies.

Seems to me one of the safest, most effectives ways to cleanse and heal.

Revvell

Solace

04-15-2007, 07:44 PM

Thanks for posting Revvell, I think your opinion does mean a lot to people on here and yes I agree most of your cleansing comes naturally from eating raw over time and the green smoothies are an excellent way to continue cleansing regularly. But for those who feel they need more, keeping the detox as safe and healthy as possible through smoothies AND juicing mostly greens. I personally will continue to do both on a regular basis as part of my everyday living. Also again about the lemons turning alkaline = the question is that maybe in very acidic bodies- which a lot of us have, it may still push the body over the edge IN HIGH AMOUNTS, not regular use, not combined as part of a regular Raw diet. MODERATION:)

Gwena

04-15-2007, 09:04 PM

I agree with a little bit of what everyone has shared, and feel really greatful to be a part of a community that allows this type of discussion.

Everything isn't for everyone, and I've taken to really researching and experimenting to figure out what works best for me, cuz we're all different. MC works for some, not for others. Raw foods work to usher many folks into cleansing on a high level, for some it takes more. I think a great way to go about discussions like this is, again, to realize no one way is right for everyone.

I've done the MC many times and don't particularly care for it. It jacks up my teeth with all the lemons and maplesyrup/agave, and it just feels plain harsh on my system. So, I don't do full MCs anymore. I may do it a day or two on my juice feast just for a change, but I only do the drink and not the flush or tea.

I'm having amazing results on my current juice feast, and so I will continue with it until my body tells me otherwise, and this is my public service announcement, again, to encourage folks to listen to their bodies and do what works best for them.

I think one of the problems with newbies, cleanses and raw is rather than seeing the road to health as a loooong journey, many see MCs and raw as a way to quickly lose weight, or as a way to cure everything that ails them. Yes, you can lose weight and encourage greater health by encorporating raw and various cleanses, but some restraint, good sound advice and wisdom go a long when embarking on anything. When folks want quick fixes and don't understand what their getting into, they can sometimes do more harm than good.

Just my 2 cents.:p

hypnocmt

04-15-2007, 09:16 PM

Fasting is not appropriate for everyone at every/any time. Fasting requires a spiritual discipline and willingness to open which not everyone is prepared for.

As with any nutritional intervention, we all have to do our own research and make sensible choices and continue listening to our bodies during the process, adjusting as necessary.

When I was in school, I had the chance to see about 20-25 people on the Master Cleanse at one time. Some reacted better than others. In and of itself, it is not the greatest tool for long term weight loss. Those who needed to lose weight did find that it gave them a chance to rmeove themselves from unconscious eating, and become more aware of their relationship with food.

Others found it was just a good way to give their bodies a tune up.

I have done the MC several times and was happy with it. The longest I have done so was 10 days. For me it was more of a spiritual exercise and periodic means of deep detoxing. However, I started out in good health. People I have seen who do the MC for these reasons and nothing more seem to have a decent level of safe success with it, so long as preexisting medical conditions do not preclude fasting.

It is an intense fast, so those who need to go softly certainly have their options in this info rich age.

Solace

04-15-2007, 10:32 PM

Just my 2 cents.:p Thanks for your 2 cents I will put it with my 3 cents and together we have 5, lol:p :p I am glad your enjoying the juice feasting !!!

Solace

04-15-2007, 10:38 PM

Hypnocmt quote=As with any nutritional intervention, we all have to do our own research and make sensible choices and continue listening to our bodies during the process, adjusting as necessary.

I agree, people undertaking raw at all, NEED to read and study and research as well as make sure they stay ontop of the latest findings ! Or at least let someone who really knows what they are doing take charge.

hypnocmt

04-16-2007, 01:17 AM

Yep. I think your post is awesome if it provokes people's inclination to research all possible positives and negatives, so thay can make a balanced well-informed decision. Too many people are so desperate for help, they can be led to believe in anything that makes the promises they want to hear, while they simultaneously ignore all the cautions. I fear we will may see some abuse of the usually perfectly fine MC, as a result of the publicity surge connected to Beyonce, so you words of caution may really help some people to stay sensible in their apprach to ANY fast or other dramatic alteration in their diet.

thanks for making sure we all enter the experience responsibly.

Solace

04-16-2007, 01:21 AM

Thank-you Hypnocmt !

Solace

04-16-2007, 09:49 PM

Just posting more info, those choosing to Stay on the MC might consider adding supplements at least right after. This is from another Raw foodist talking about his thoughts on the MC, it might be helpfull for a safer journey. "New" Master Cleanse discoveries

I put the word "new" in quotation marks to indicate that the following points are not in Stanley Burroughs' original book "The Master Cleanser," nor are they in the second edtion of "Lose Weight, Have More Energy & Be Happier in 10 Days" because I had not discovered them at that time. However, I have talked about them in this newsletter, at recent public talks, and on the bulletin board.

A) Probiotics
As a result of some reading and noticing that my cravings after a cleanse were reduced by taking probiotics, I concluded it was very possible people were cleansing out of their body the good bacteria they needed. Vibrant health requires good bacteria to make vitamins A, B1, B2, B3, B12 and K; to attack germs in the digestive tract and to keep bad bacteria and yeast (like Candida) under control. [For example, some people develop yeast infections after taking antibiotics because antibiotics kill both bad and good bacteria!]

So, I have been recommending people take a month's supply of probiotics starting the day they first eat solid food. Then, to verify this, I launched a poll on the bulletin board in October 2006. The results of the poll appear to back up this advice. Taking probiotics after the cleanse resulted in no problem for 15 out of 20 people, handled a previous Candida/yeast problem for 3 out of 20 people and only 1 out of 20 people reported a Candida/yeast problem occuring after the cleanse and probiotics.

B) Temporary hair loss
I am only aware of 5 women out of more than 1000 who experienced temporary hair loss. It only occurred in women who had done more than one Master Cleanse and did them more frequently than once every three months. (80% of people who do the Master Cleanse are women and I believe that women are the person in the family who urges good health practices on the others.)

In every case, the hair grew back and each woman was still eager to do future Master Cleanses, but less frequently. The remedy seemed to be taking vitamin and mineral supplements. This makes me believe that in these cases the body ran out of the mineral reserves necessary to neutralize the acidic toxins it was mobilizing and eliminating, and therefore started to take these minerals out of the hair.

I recommend people do the Master Cleanse no more frequently than once every three months and that they either eat a 100% raw vegan diet or supplement their diet with lots of fresh green juices or smoothies. This is because dark green leafy vegetables are the best natural source of calcium and magnesium, which are two of the major alkaline minerals in the body. (The others are sodium and potassium.)

C) Sensitive teeth
I haven't yet confirmed that sensitive teeth are another symptom of alkaline mineral depletion, but it makes theoretical sense. Teeth and bones are the major location of calcium, which is the prinicpal mineral used by the body to alkalize the blood. So, if you have sensitive teeth, try juicing dark leafy green vegetables or drinking green smoothies!

SchoolOfRAWk

04-17-2007, 06:11 PM

Solace

04-17-2007, 06:25 PM

I agree that some have issues with this cleanse. However, it is relatively harmless if it is used and not abused. It could be argued that it is not altogether unhealthier than drinking pure OJ for 2 weeks as some raw fasts recommend. There are a lot of minerals in the maple syrup is the general understanding. Not sure about those salt blasts, though, and am glad I've never done them. I'd probably combine it with Dr. Schulze's colon cleanse of sorts, to keep moving and healing.

BUT, as one raw teacher taught me, LOOK AT DR. WEIL. I have had to almost rip up his books our of anger at some of the stuff he writes. He is just a big fat balding play-it-safe and tell-the-people-more-or-less-what-they-want-to-hear ol' "doctor". If you want to look like him, listen to him, is what I was told. I raaaan. LOL!
HEHE:D Yes Dr. Weil is NOT perfect but he is right about a great number of things, like integrative medicine etc. I know he's become a BIT of a sell out;) and money has got the best of him. But yes, this is something I really tried to stress over and over in this thread = LONG TERM USE OF THE MC, NOT short term= I noticed people were talking about doing it for up to 40 days. Also the fact that green juicing and smoothy cleanses are much more effective AND safer. I just don't think it was something that needed promoting on a Raw site etc. Anyways again, Peace all !!!:)

Solace

04-17-2007, 06:30 PM

P.S. my kids and me always called Dr. Weil = The healthfood Santa Clause, lol, back in the day when I bought into his products.:rolleyes:

lavendarJ

04-17-2007, 06:46 PM

I've done the master cleanse on more than one ocassion. I have cleansed for just over two weeks and then the last one I did was for forty days. I never had any of the detox symptoms that I have heard about on here. I think the only thing I can remember is the fuzz on teeth thing and that was just because of the cleansing and simply meant more brushing and greater teeth hygeine. I never had the aches and pains, headaches, hair loss or anything. At that time my fast was not just about allowing my body to rest from eating but it was about cleansing spiritually and emotionally.

The master cleanse is a fast which we know originated with Stanley Burroughs. I don't get the big deal. I do think that everyone should be clear about why they do any fast in the first place. If someone is fasting to lose the weight well then duh, it's going to come back on when they start eating junk again.

We do need to be ever educated about everything that we do and of course, everything that we put into our bodies. Yet, I also caution myself with every new article or so called "finding" that comes out every day. We need to be still - that's the very least we can do and listen to our bodies and the way they respond and then just use good old common sense. There are numerous types of fasts out here.

This I do know, since I've been raw I haven't been led to do a long term master cleanse (I believed that the 40 day cleanse served its purpose for me emotionally, physically and spiritually. I received what I sought from cleansing and that's that)

Solace

04-17-2007, 06:53 PM

Lavenderj - quote- Yet, I also caution myself with every new article or so called "finding" that comes out every day. We need to be still - that's the very least we can do and listen to our bodies and the way they respond and then just use good old common sense. I agree with that a lot but I am also one of those who finds all the nitty gritty details interesting, Hay maybe I should do this fulltime or something- duh, maybe this is my calling !:rolleyes: :)

musicalfruit

04-21-2007, 10:46 PM

Hi Solace,
However, I've had some fantastic benefits from the cleanse. On all the cleanses, my eczema goes so I don't have to use steroids daily anymore. It also gets rid of my candida overload which I've always struggled with.

.

Did your eczema stay gone? Or did it return when you started eating again?
When I went raw the eczema flared up so badly and I am still struggling with it.
thanks for your reply :)

Solace

04-22-2007, 02:01 AM

Did your eczema stay gone? Or did it return when you started eating again?
When I went raw the eczema flared up so badly and I am still struggling with it.
thanks for your reply :) Hi, just wondering if you have ever tried Oil of oregano ? I have heard often in the past that it has really help with eczema. Here is a random link for it but it should be available at your local healthfood store.
http://www.purelinatural.com/OreganoUses.html

musicalfruit

04-22-2007, 09:55 AM

No, I haven't tried the Oregano, I have some in my refrigerator too! Thanks for the tip, I will give it a try.
:)

tweety

04-23-2007, 03:28 PM

SchoolOfRAWk

04-23-2007, 04:07 PM

The Master Cleanse is not dangerous to do. There are concerns with anything, including newbies to raw coming here and thinking they can eat all the nuts and fat they want. People know that they have to listen to their bodies and take responsibility for their own actions. There is nothing more or less alarming about MC-ing than juice fasting, etc. People can read about green smoothies, do way too much fiber in a day, and cramp and get diahrrea, etc. I am glad this post is still here.

SchoolOfRAWk

04-23-2007, 04:08 PM

P.S. For example, I do NOT do the salt water flushes, etc. I think it's harsh, although some don't mind. I instead do a colon cleanse, to keep the bowel moving and to further assist the detox. I use Dr. Schulze's, personally. www.herbdoc.com is where I get it. And it's filling. :-)

Solace

04-23-2007, 09:25 PM

I found this thread ... curious about any MC info i could find in here because i am considering doing it on a short-term basis.

I think its important to question the validity of certain remedies, but also if we are on a board that promotes the raw food lifestyle, we should try not to demonize something that could be of great value.

Over the weekend I thought I would try the lemon/cayenne tonic. I LOVED it!!
I find this to be a good complement to the diet if one is not going to do the fulle cleanse. Once I drank it, immediately I coughed up a lot of built up mucus. I've been dealing with a LOT of congestion for 3 weeks now from detox.

i did some reasearch... cayenne is a blood purifier and mover and helps raise metabolism. Lemon aids in digestion and cuts through mucus and it alkalizes in the body.

I had a glass of it this morning before i left the house... but i still had breakfast. I felt i had more energy as well. as someone who is not doing the actual cleanse, I find myself craving to drink it!!

cleansing and giving the digestive system a rest can be good once in a while.
overeating taxes the digestive and the body uses more energy to digest rather than detox.

at the very least, I would promote adding cayenne and lemon in the diet on a more frequent basis. I think if someone wants more health and if they cant deal with doing the MC, there is nothing wrong with drinking the tonic.. especially if you get the flu.

after all, the point of going raw is not just to go raw.... its also a guide pointing us to a direction where we add more natural remedies that improve our health, thus eliminating the toxic "medicines" and drugs of our time...... right?? Hi, thanks for reading the thread. + but if you had read all that I said = you would know I am NOT DEMONIZING it at all, just questioning WHY- LONG TERM ? I really went out of my way to make that clear over and over ! I do not think Cayenne ' which I take EVERYDAY for neck pain and lemon- which I often add to food and water- are bad, at all= I DID SAY THAT ON HERE OFTEN. MY concern was for the REASON behind why some were Promoting it and = doing IT for sooo long. I WAS CONCERNED< NOT demonizing at all ! Just questioning the motive and reasoning behind the LONG TERM use. From the info of those backing the RAW movement, I have read very little of anyone promoting it, most have said JUICING AND SMOOTHIES are much more effective for detoxing AND SAFER LONG TERM........... If you had read Honestly what I wrote here you would have understood that. I am not angry, just frustrated by the concept of LONG TERM Master Cleanse ! I still say , I don't really think this is the place to promote it - to those who are not informed on RAW properly = I still stick by that. I think people are WAY to sick and need to be much more carefull. Thats my opinion from the knowlage I have gathered in my life, Wrong or right, I am making a valid point. One I believe needs to be looked at closely. THANX, I am just trying to show what the concern is + It is not just MY concern.

tweety

04-25-2007, 12:18 AM

Hi, thanks for reading the thread. + but if you had read all that I said = you would know I am NOT DEMONIZING it at all, just questioning WHY- LONG TERM ? I really went out of my way to make that clear over and over !

Hi Solace,
I did read the thread and your first message, but I must have missed your specific point on the long term aspect, however, when i read a long drawn out thread with several pages I have a tendency to skim through each post to try and catch key points, probably like many other readers.
I did not see immediate reference to long term in your first post, or the subject header so that was kindof misleading to me as a reader. Im probably a bad reader :)

This is something that has been bothering me for a while now, I just don't believe its a healthy thing to promote The Master Cleanse to newcomers of Raw. I have not read or heard about anyone higher up in the Raw community promoting the Master cleanse especially for more than a day or 2. I have only ever heard about the bad side effects of it and that really worries me for you guys= it also makes NO sense at all if you are already eating a mostly raw diet. Pull out your juicers people and juice ! With all the info we have been given by people like Alissa and many others I just do not get the need for such an unhealthy long term cleanse at all ? Especially for those who have not been RAW 100% FOR A LONG TIME FIRST. I am not posting this to upset anyone I just don't see how it fits into a raw diet at all. If anything long term cleanse wise I agree with Angela Stokes

I know that you did emphasize the long term later in your posts by the 2nd page and after reading through several other posts it was a bit convoluded.
I'm sorry but the bold lettering didnt help me either.

It did appear to me that the cleanse itself was demonized and the only benefits were highlighted by those who actually did it.
Not one person said how beneficial cayenne would be to the diet.

I do not think Cayenne ' which I take EVERYDAY for neck pain and lemon- which I often add to food and water- are bad, at all= I DID SAY THAT ON HERE OFTEN.

I went back and re-read some of the posts and didnt see any positive references to the cleanse other than 2 or 3? who actually did it and had good things to say about it.
I accidentally missed your main point.

MY concern was for the REASON behind why some were Promoting it and = doing IT for sooo long. I WAS CONCERNED< NOT demonizing at all ! Just questioning the motive and reasoning behind the LONG TERM use. From the info of those backing the RAW movement, I have read very little of anyone promoting it, most have said JUICING AND SMOOTHIES are much more effective for detoxing AND SAFER LONG TERM........... If you had read Honestly what I wrote here you would have understood that. I am not angry, just frustrated by the concept of LONG TERM Master Cleanse ! I still say , I don't really think this is the place to promote it - to those who are not informed on RAW properly = I still stick by that. I think people are WAY to sick and need to be much more carefull. Thats my opinion from the knowlage I have gathered in my life, Wrong or right, I am making a valid point. One I believe needs to be looked at closely. THANX, I am just trying to show what the concern is + It is not just MY concern.

I was pointing out the benefits of the actual ingredients of the tonic which should be praised for what they can do, other than just cleansing.

I agree you are making a valid point in questioning it, but I didnt get your point at the onset of stating your case.
As a matter of fact Im in the middle of questioning RAW.
I've been 75-90% raw for at least 3 months now, Ive actually GAINED weight since i went raw and Im getting depressed because of it, thus why I will try to do the Master Cleanse.

I dont know what you mean by "promoting" the MC in here? maybe i just havent been in the fasting forum enough.

A lot of people will lurk in here and read stuff just as they will anywhere else on the internet and choose to try that for health/weight loss.
I hope this doesnt sound brash, but choice is up to the individual so there really isnt much you can do sorry to say.
That even includes choosiing to educate themselves on the real deal.
People can educate themselves but still be unhealthy by not ACTING on it.
(I had an obese health teacher once)

Me, I've chosen to educate myself and I have acted on it.
Honestly, I feel that Im quite educated on eating healthy (hey my co-workers make frenzy when i eat fruit) and in addition to being RAW, its just information OVERLOAD!! My mind cant rest and Im always thinking about food, im so disgusted with it. its no wonder we have so many health problems, peopel dont know what to do.

For me, i think I will use the MC to take "time out" to reflect on my relationship with food. RAW isnt cutting it for me at this time in terms of weight loss. (i have problems where i cant exercise so diet is my only option) Im tired of shopping every week, Im always hungry, and lately started to go cooked again.

It sounds like you are very sensitive about the MC and want it removed from Alissa's board?

I dont blame you for being concerned, but my advice would be to take a deep breath and realize that you cant control what others do.... but im sure youre post has done some good in questioing it.
For me... after becoming so sensitive to being RAW, for almost the past 2 weeks I was overly-sensitive to world events and political garbage where it was interferring when i went to sleep at night!!! ... to me, that is true toxicity, i cant be that sensitive.

its so weird, we're all different and no we are not one size fits all.

for now i praise the MC tonic for what it can do for me if i get the flu!

sheesh this was long! :rolleyes:

Sincerely,
Tweety

Solace

04-25-2007, 01:26 AM

Thanks Tweety for your post, as I had said during this thread my intent was not to offend anyone just sound why I was worried. I find learning and being involved in this enjoyable so it is not at all about being over occupied with it, I just truly enjoy it. I do know A LOT of people come on here to lose weight and want a quick fix and might also have eating disorders like anorexia (which is something I fought with in the past) So I worry for those who are not focused on their 'Nutrition' just weight loss. I believe RAW is more about healing physically and mentally. I have over the past 4 months of being raw, struggled some days because of the weight not coming off me = but now it is. More importantly I have overcome Major depression and chronic pain BECAUSE of going 100% RAW. I have over and over ON past threads stated how important I feel cayenne is for the body and how much its helped me. Anyways again I felt that someone needed to say something about it, I saw 1 too many posts endorsing it over the past 4 months and wanted to give another side to the story. It bothered me, in the context that I have tried to make clear on here. I am not against it for small periods of time and am happy if some feel it has helped them. I was just worried honestly, for those who are misunderstanding how to use it and adding caution to those who care to listen. Thank-you everyone for your input, much love to you all and may your road to health be a safe and happy one ! P.S. Tweety, I hope you stick it out with RAW for your overall wellbeing.

Zuri

04-29-2007, 07:24 PM

I did the MC twice with great success. It greatly assisted me in starting the raw lifestyle and being deeply introspective (taking a break from food and the chaos of the world). I did it to detox, not lose weight. I had been experiencing inflammation in my joints and while doing the MC it decreased immensely. After the first MC was over, and I began eating raw I already had no more joint pain.

I was led by my spirit to the MC so no worries for me. Thereafter I was led to eating raw. I'm in tune enough with my body to know what's good for it and what isn't. On that note and interestingly enough, a co-worker of mine did the MC after observing me do it and ended up in the hospital due to dehydration simply because she didn't follow the protocol. People are different and each of us has different needs for maybe similar, yet different reasons.

Gwena

04-30-2007, 03:51 PM

As I read all the posts on the MC it seems as though everyone is generally saying the same thing. All folks are different, and the MC may or may not work for them. Sounds good to me.

Solace, thanks for all of your info and your concern. Concern isn't a bad thing. In fact, it has a tendency to keep us grounded. I totally appreciate your concern regarding the MC. If anything, it encourages folks to take a step back and really evaluate why/why not they may/may not do the MC. Looking at the length of the posts on this thread, your concern did just that. It caused us to reflect on w/we agree with the MC or not. Kudos to you for provoking this discussion.:p

We need varying thoughts in the land we call RAW. We need varying thoughts and ideas when it comes to fasting and cleansing. Not only do we need voices of encouragement, but voices of concern as well. No cleanse is perfect. No diet is perfect, and without the voice of decent, we have few checks and balances.;) We end up with a few gurus dictating a regime based on their own experiences and lifestyles, and we are all far too different in our makeup to follow just one way.

Solace, I just added 2 more cents! How much do we have all together now??:p

Solace

05-02-2007, 11:26 AM

Gwena

05-02-2007, 12:23 PM

Yes, I agree!!! Rich rich rich! I love knowledge and I'm sure I wouldn't mind being rich.:D

Thanks for the compliment Solace!!! It's definately been an experience. :p

Revvell

05-02-2007, 12:25 PM

What I find interesting in this conversation is the "all folks are different" attitude. Why? We are all people. People are made up of the same stuffs. You don't see where all tigers are different, all squirrels ('cept me, of course) are different, all giraffes are different... They all eat the same food natural to their environment, their nature and their species.

So, what makes us different? IMO it's what we've eaten in the past which has created the imbalances. Same thing with all domesticated animals. Cats and dogs are given different food than they would eat naturally therefore having created imbalances requiring different food in order to attempt to balance out their systems.

As far as I'm concerned, ANY fasting for ANY reason other than illness is silly. NO OTHER animal in the universe fasts other than when it's ill to assist in healing.

I've seen too many people, myself included, have bowel problems, either diahrea (sp) or constipation when fasting. Then they come on here and other boards and ask what to do about it?? Well, my suggestion is, stop doing what you're doing to create the problem. Simple, isn't it? But no, humans have to complicate and convolute their lives. *shrugs*

So yesterday, I'm riding with a good friend and she tells me she's going on this 5-day fast which contains lemon juice, maple syrup and cayenne. I give her my view on that and she tells me that it's not JUST the MC. First she's on raw fruits and veggies for a bit; then the MC for one day, all fruits the next, raw veggies the next, the MC the next... etc.

Well, that makes one heckuva lot more sense because she's getting cleansing from the fruit (and FIBER!!!!) and health building from the veggies (and FIBER!!!!).

So no, I've not read any of the posts since this thread started (and I think I posted... not even sure) so, there ya go.

Revvell

Gwena

05-02-2007, 01:09 PM

Hey Revvell. Good point, but still based on your experience.

I don't know? Speaking for myself, I'm leary of making statements that are black and white cuz my body responds differently to things just like the next person, and who's to say what is going to work better for one person than the other. Being really honest now, it sounds a bit limited. :o This is just me. Only speaking from my own experience here. I tend to ditch teachings that don't allow for experimentation and profess to be THE one and only way to perfect anything.

I guess my question is, why should there be only one way to fast that is the end all for everyone? That takes the fun out of things, especially when the MC might actually work better for someone depending on where they're at in their fasting/cleansing journey.

Please know I mean no disrespect as I totally appreciate all you do, your advice and your lovely talk shows. Just responding as I think this is a really good topic for discussion, and really do want to understand why there's a "need" for one way of cleansing.

Revvell

05-02-2007, 01:23 PM

Hey Revvell. Good point, but still based on your experience.

And observation and 30 years of research including doing various fasts and cleansings.

Being really honest now, it sounds a bit limited. :o

What does?

I tend to ditch teachings that don't allow for experimentation and profess to be THE one and only way to perfect anything.

Is this from something I'm saying or are you just speaking generally because I'm not professing any teachings whatsoever here.

I guess my question is, why should there be only one way to fast that is the end all for everyone? That takes the fun out of things, especially when the MC might actually work better for someone depending on where they're at in their fasting/cleansing journey.

My question is, why fast at all if one is not naturally feeling to not eat? Why force one's body to do what is unnatural? Is doing the MC fun? Is fasting fun?

How many times have you seen people on here saying they don't feel like eating and oh dear, oh my what should I do? Uh duh! Do what your body tells you! Now THAT's the time to ALLOW cleansing to happen, not FORCE it.

Please know I mean no disrespect as I totally appreciate all you do, your advice and your lovely talk shows. Just responding as I think this is a really good topic for discussion, and really do want to understand why there's a "need" for one way of cleansing.

No disrespect taken in the least. Just having a discussion here.

Didn't say there was a "need" for one way of cleansing. Just stating my feelings about the natural way to live. My friend isn't paying me for advice. She's set on doing the MC/cleanse, whatever one wants to call it so... her choice, her life, her body. Just makes more sense to me IF someone wants to something other than eat raw, as it's more balancing.

My choice... Green smoothies, raw foods. It's a balance. As I stated earlier in this thread.. people, including my friend... eat junk.. then they come here and read about the MC. So, they go from eating junk, to the polar opposite ~ a total fast. (And yes, I realized there are others on here who are raw vegan or who've been vegetarian/vegan for quite some time. I'm not speaking about them.. well, no, umm, well... :D) That's the monkey mind's "solution" to the problem which is the problem in itself. Going from one extreme to the other.

People say eating a raw vegan food program is "extreme". What to say of no food at all?

Revvell

Gwena

05-02-2007, 01:52 PM

Ok, I think I got where you're coming from now. You are referring to going to extremes when the body can cleanse itself by incorporating green smoothies and such.

I agree folks go on these things for the sake of going on them and jump from one extreme to the next. That's obvious. It's part of the journey.

All I was sharing is that folks need to figure these things out, and yes folks ask for advice. We all give it and this is why these boards exist in the first place, and you were just giving your advice. Cool.:)

I'm glad all this advice exists so we have many varying voices to choose from.:)

Damzlfly

05-02-2007, 02:06 PM

Gotta jump in here. Personally, I am on day 4 of the MC and have never felt better. I am doing this to break my food addiction. Not a moment in the day goes by where I dont think of food. When my next meal will be, what I'm going to eat, what's in the fridge right now I can snack on. And I am not hungry in the least, just bored/addicted/etc

I feel wonderful doing this. I have been doing a lot of 'inner talking' to myself to determine why I do the things I do and how I can change. I plan on going 10-18 days or until my tongue goes pink. At that point I will slowly reintroduce food into my diet and incorporate my learnings into my life.

While the MC or any other fast is not for everyone (read those who want to lose weight fast) I think it does serve its purpose if done for spiritual and physical healing. And if one undertakes it knowing what they are doing. This is my first fast, however I spoke to numerous people about it, and read tons on the internet. I also listened to my body, which was telling me that it needed a break. I plan on becoming more in tune with my body as this progresses and plan on coming out the other end enlightened, clear, clean, and ready to take on this next step in my journey.

Gwena

05-02-2007, 02:31 PM

That's awesome Damzlfly! It is different for everyone, and this is what I was trying to relay.

You know what you feel, and you know what's best for you. Keep learning, and growing! You're doing great.:D

Revvell

05-02-2007, 02:32 PM

Ok, I think I got where you're coming from now. You are referring to going to extremes when the body can cleanse itself by incorporating green smoothies and such.

'zactly

I agree folks go on these things for the sake of going on them and jump from one extreme to the next. That's obvious. It's part of the journey.

Yet, it doesn't HAVE to be. If you're out on a hike and headed somewhere you going to slash through all the overgrowth and brush or you going to take the trail someone else has made?

If you've never hiked before you going to go from not moving at all to crossing the Grand Canyon?

People make this "journey" more difficult than it has to be. But then, that is their right. lol

Luvs ya, :)

Revvell

Revvell

05-02-2007, 02:35 PM

This is a totally different process than someone just "jumping on the badwagon" because they see others doing it. You've got intent, purpose, consciousness. Congratulations.

Gotta jump in here. Personally, I am on day 4 of the MC and have never felt better. I am doing this to break my food addiction. Not a moment in the day goes by where I dont think of food. When my next meal will be, what I'm going to eat, what's in the fridge right now I can snack on. And I am not hungry in the least, just bored/addicted/etc

I feel wonderful doing this. I have been doing a lot of 'inner talking' to myself to determine why I do the things I do and how I can change. I plan on going 10-18 days or until my tongue goes pink. At that point I will slowly reintroduce food into my diet and incorporate my learnings into my life.

While the MC or any other fast is not for everyone (read those who want to lose weight fast) I think it does serve its purpose if done for spiritual and physical healing. And if one undertakes it knowing what they are doing. This is my first fast, however I spoke to numerous people about it, and read tons on the internet. I also listened to my body, which was telling me that it needed a break. I plan on becoming more in tune with my body as this progresses and plan on coming out the other end enlightened, clear, clean, and ready to take on this next step in my journey.

Gwena

05-02-2007, 03:56 PM

Revvell, we're pretty much on the same page with all this, though we come at it from different angles.;) I agree with the forest analogy and all, which is why I love these forums.

I assumed you were advocating only one way to go about cleansing, and coming from someone who has been on the raw path for a while, it can put folks on the defensive when they have done their research and reflection as to why a juice fast or MC is good for them.

It's never good to assume, so I apologize for misunderstanding you. Thanks for the good advice. :D

Solace

05-02-2007, 04:41 PM

Oh boy,(sighs loudly):rolleyes: Ok just about Revvells comment, cuz I think I have said 'my' piece on the subject enough;) Animals don't do the damage humans do to their bodies, therefor Cleansing is not necessary- not saying thats what Revvell said, just adding. After 31 years of being a Human, I had done A LOT of damage. I still after 4 months have not done any fasting, just juicing once a day and just a small liver cleanse. My body is just now starting to detox, I did not detox much in the beginning. I have healed my depression and chronic pain just by EATING RAW :) BUT now that my body is ready I will be going for a set of colonics that require 10 days of Juice fasting to get rid of the plaque in my colon = it comes out much faster if you cleanse for 10 days before the colonics. I am working with someone who really knows what she's doing and has been doing this for 40 years, she very much agrees with juice feasting- when needed, she has seen it WORK first hand. 1 time each year for about 1 month at a time. This is after your first 'big cleanse'-coming into raw. I feel my body is quite ready for the colon-cleanse fast, other than that I have no bigger commitments to fasting, yet. Like I have said , people are sick and at different degree's of illness. My Aunt who is 50 and working with the same Naturopath has a way bigger cleanse to do because she has way more problems than I do. Anyways I think Juicing is beautiful and smoothies are magically delicious;)

tweety

05-02-2007, 07:33 PM

Okay, I need to chime in here now...I am going on Day 3 now of the MC and I am feeling fantastic!

Admittingly, I wouldnt be able to be where I am now if it wasn't for being raw 3 months and 1/2 raw since Sept 06
My detox symptoms are very little if any big ones are to come up.

I agree with Damzlfly about the inner-talking. With ANY kind of fasting or cleansing there comes a lot of self-reflection and awakenings for probably most people. It wasn't until the actual day before or the day i began the MC was when other reasons for doing this came into mind. ie. binge eating, overeating, emotional, self-discipline, etc..

I disagree with doing salt water flushes and laxatives everyday for MY body. i will do them occasionally as i feel needed, but i dont agree with doing that everyday as Burroughs suggests. By not doing these everyday I truly believe i am resting certain organs in the digestive tract.

As for diversity, we ARE different from one another. We are different in our ethnic and cultural backgrounds, our upbringing, our lifestyles, our family genes & body types, our environments, the foods we eat in this lifetime and our thoughts and beliefs. We are all on a different journey but we all help each other pull or push ourselves up the ladder of life when we need it the most.

Some people's journeys truly are difficult... sometimes they DO make it more difficult, but I dont think its our right to judge other's and their personal journeys because we can't get into other people's heads and figure out what theyre thinking. When someone is having a hard time, maybe that is when they most need a loving and compassionate person to give them a lending hand. I also believe that many lives have been touched through this community and such Im sure through this thread. I know im one of them in the former and the latter.

My Yoga master always said "life is full of contradictions" just like the positions of yoga. we are all contradictions even to ourselves and as i type this im sure somewhere I am even going to do the same ;)

We are even different in our decisions, whether they are conscious or not.
Some blindly and unconsciously decide they want to do a cleanse, but maybe that opens up a door for them? surely they must learn something... at least i hope!

Speaking for myself, the MC helps because im not so hungry and I think its a good catapult. I have tried to do regular juices in the past and failed even a 2-day juice because i felt so immensely hungry. the MC drink for me has helped to suppress my appetite whereas most other juices stimulate my digestion.
It also works for my busy lifestyle. Lemon juice has a better shelf-life in the fridge than other juices and i dont have to use my juicer everyday when i am on the go.

I also just want to point out how lemons were added to Alissa's husbands juice fasting, so I dont see an issue with this on this part. I think most raw-food leaders dont promote the MC is because it is not their's to promote, they are encouraging a raw-food lifestyle that includes juicing... but Alissa doesnt seem to have an issue promoting juice fasting from my observations.
http://www.alissacohen.com/dennisjourney.html
"Apple-lemon juice was part of our daily juice fast regime."

Feast and Famine have been instilled in us for ages... potato blights, droughts, crop contaminations, weather, etc... so i think this is where extremes begin with our behaviors and this is how we also differ from the animal kingdom.
We have too much food in today's modern world, thus the extreme eating.

Sometimes extremes cant all be that bad... Some would say juicing is extreme for someone who is deathly ill. Sometimes extreme situations call for extreme measures... but again I agree with a lot of the sentiment in here on HOW the extremes are ABUSED and a lot of that can be due to the disconnection of the BODY and MIND function.
Water fasting is very extreme IMO and can cause much damage if not under dr. supervision from a very ill person.

Some would say that colonics and enemas are extreme.. is that natural? no.
is making raw food in a processor natural? no.
is juicing natural? no. that's not how mother nature made it. there arent rivers of carrot juice flowing in the Colorado River... although I WISH there was! LOL! :D

Is fasting or abstaining from food natural? yes i believe it is. We are creatures of intelligence. So that would make all of the above a "natural possibility" due to our intelligence as human beings.
I believe that abstaining from food just like sex, TV, spending money is a way to practice self-control and self-discipline in a material world of mental manipulation and brain-washing. A time to reflect and gain mental clarity. I see it as a time also to free one's self from the programming of society.
I am beginning to believe that overeating is unnatural, but that depends if there was a famine?

Scientific studies have also shown that eating less or being "hungry" is a factor into lifelong longevity and youthfulness.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3401/01.html

I think the thing we really need to ask is not if it is natural or if the Master Cleanse is dangerous.... but DOES it help the person awaken to a new and better lifestyle?

Does the vehicle in which they choose to improve health, weightloss, overall clarity and healing help them overall as a person?

Do people really take the time to do what is right for THEM and in truly connecting to their bodies? and if so then that is their decision, their journey, their body.

In my early 20's I was a diet-pill popper, a protein shake mixer and yep I even used to be a Slim-faster years ago.. I had a nice bod but the health problems surely creeped up on me.

I would rather have a person try the Master Cleanser than drinking a nasty Slimfast or processed Protein shake anyday.

Great discussion and very thought provoking! Thank you!

Gwena

05-03-2007, 01:06 AM

Awesome info! I agree with all of you. Can this be possible???:p

Yeah, it can be cuz I think we all are thinking some of the same things, at least to some extent.

It's good reading about the thought that folks are putting into their cleanses. I love being around and learning from thinkers.:D

Tweety, I especially agree that we are all different. Yeah, we all walk upright and have opposing digits, but we didn't all come into this world the same way. Nor have we lived the same life.

Example. . . My boyfriend had a lovely beginning. His mother had him naturally, ate raw during her pregnency, and breast fed him for a long time. He ate raw as a child. He has an amazing immune system, never had any childhood illnesses, had no detox while transitioning to raw, and couldn't gain a pound if he tried. I was born two months pre-mature, by a mother who smoked and ate junk food. I spent the first two months of my life in an incubator, was fed on baby formula and my favorite food as a toddler was processed cheese slices. I was sick all through childhood and on antibiotics all the while. As an adult, I was constantly catching colds and flu until I started cleansing, and eventually dabbling with raw foods.

Two different situations, two different physical experiences, two different approaches needed to cleansing between the two of us. He's as clean as a whistle. I'm another story and so my story and plan will be different from his and from the next persons, and that's just the way it goes.:rolleyes:

Solace

05-03-2007, 11:40 AM

Yes, my childhood was not ideal either, I knew a little better raising my kids but still went WAY off how I should have - microwaving formula - in the bottle:eek: what the * was i thinking ! All the junk food, now I have an 11 year old with all kinds of allergies and a 6 year old who seems hypoglycemic a little. My 11 year old just finished reading Raw family by Victoria Boutenko, I told him I'd give him $20.00 if he did;) bribery:rolleyes: oh well. I am doing my best to repair any damage I might have done them. Anyways YES we are all at different places for sure but that doesn't change my feelings on how to deal with them when it comes to Raw. Starving your body of nutrition for a long period of time---- NOT a week or 10 days = more than that I mean, just does not add up to me ever. People with terminal CANCER are not even told to fast on Nothing - they juice juice juice - baby:rolleyes:

Gwena

05-03-2007, 02:01 PM

Solace

05-03-2007, 02:31 PM

Yeah, starving the body of nutrition for extended periods of time doesn't make much sense to me either.

It's a good thing the MC has nutrients in the lemon and maple syrup and the juice feast is all about loading up on nutrition.

Extended water fasts are definately something to be researched before trying.In David Wolfes book Sunfood diet system - AMAZING book ! He talks about people who have 'evolved'-in a form - meaning the have been able to tap into something after being extremely healthy for a while. They have become long time water fasters and breatharians. We can get our bodies and MINDS to that point after being RAW and working on ourselves= SELF evolving- I use that term loosely- I believe whatever we achieve we were given to begin with, by God - we just couldn't tap into it. Anyways point being, we can get to that point,,,,,, but very FEW of us are even close to that, David Wolfe as healthy as he is - doesn't do that. Soooo people who come on 'here' after only trying RAW for a while - and some who are not even 100% raw are doing these extended FASTs their bodies/minds are not prepared for.

Even if they feel they are, there is so much info saying they LIKELY are not. I believe long term fasts are possible and spiritual at the right time. My worry is for those who jump on a BANDWAGON - they may not be ready for. They come on here and see *OH the Master Cleanse - maybe thats what I should do first to take off some weight and *then go RAW. - well whatever I made my point on that already. I also hope those who do choose to do the MC - type cleanse know they Absolutly have to do a set of Colonics during that time = You are releasing all of these TOXINS into your system sooo fast you have to do colonics NOT just enema's to get rid of the toxins or they go back into your body. COLONICS !!!!;) Thats why doing an extended fast AFTER getting cleaned out from RAW and GREEN smoothies AND Juicefeasting over time Is a better way to go. DO the MC for a long time AFTER your CLEAN........:) and ready for it on all levels.

shadow

05-03-2007, 04:39 PM

Solace

05-03-2007, 04:58 PM

May I suggest 'Fasting and Eating for Health' by Dr. Joel Fuhrman?
In it he mentions that with a 'juice fast' versus a total fast (pure water only) you loose more lean body tissue and less fatty tissue. One cannot go into a state of ketosis while still receiving the nutrients from juices. His book is pretty awesome. So much information about fasting. Very enlightening. I highly recommend it. Thanks BUT like other Dr.'s Like Dr.Weil = who are very well rounded in their info......They are not Raw Vegan, even though this may not be the answer for everyone, this is what this SITE is devoted to. Raw is what we are descussing. Here is a quote from Dr.Joel Furhman "
But are there advantages to eating a diet of all raw foods and excluding all cooked foods? The answer is a resounding “No”. In fact, eating an exclusively raw-food diet is a disadvantage."

Sooo, I would not recommend his info for people who are trying to maintain RAW. I again appeciate anyone's knowledge - but its also important to know where and who its coming from.

Solace

05-03-2007, 05:37 PM

Although, I guess i would be contadicting myself by quoting Dr. Weil on this thread, problem is there is very little if any info on the MC in the RAW community soooo, that toooo is my point. I would love to hear what someone thinks on that subject like David Wolfe-Alissa- Victoria Boutenko- Gabriel Cousen etc - but no info. Just the opposite - saying Juicing and smoothies.

StarFire

05-03-2007, 08:21 PM

Wow... lots of opinions. Well, I AM a newbie - I just completed the April Challenge 100% raw and now I am embarking on the May challenge.

One thing I love about this site - I can ask any question without being JUDGED (at least I have never run across that yet). I can ask silly questions about life, the Raw lifestyle -- whatever.

the answers I get are opinions only. What I do with them are my business. But as someone new to this lifestyle -- I do find it interesting what more experienced Rawbies have to say. They've already been through it. So - they can often shed light on the subject.

I went on the MC for 21 days. During that time I was astonished at how hostile people could be! :eek: What is it about that fast that upsets people so? I was told by one person who I had considered a friend...
"oh that doesn't work - I got down to 98 pounds then gained it all back and more in two weeks when I quit the fast."

Well, first - I never asked for her opinion.
second -- I seriously was not doing it for the weight loss but for the benefits of the cleansing down to the cellular level.
You may roll your eyes at that - and that's okay... but for me -
I embarked on that cleanse because I truly believe I was led to do so by God.

I have been a smoker since I was 11 years old. I am now 50. I began to suffer chest pains, and palpitations and I'm not dumb - I know I had to change my lifestyle - and quit poisoning myself with cigarettes, alcohol and bad eating habits.

I have had difficulty quitting in the past - the cravings and the emotional attachments can be fierce.

The MC helped me to flush those toxins out of my system - and I suffered very little if any cravings and withdrawal symptoms.

It worked for me - that's not to say it will work for you - or them or whoever, but personally, It worked for me.

I have been free of those cigarettes since January 6th of this year and I am so blessed because of it.

Now I'm on the road to health through the Raw Lifestyle.

and -- I appreicate the freedom to ask the questions and the freedom to make my choices.

It is our responsibility ALONE to make the decisons that affect our lives.

Gwena

05-03-2007, 10:43 PM

So well put Starfire, as always.:p

It is strange to me as well how the MC seems to spark such serious debate. I've done it several times, and I'm still here to tell about it. I had great results and it helped me transition into raw eating. I no longer do them cuz they are a bit tough on my system, but what doesn't work for me may work for someone else, and this is the crux. Why IS it so hard to believe that what doesn't work for someone, works for someone else????:confused:

I agree yet again Starfire, to take what someone else is doing personally, or to belittle anothers conviction on whatever they are doing seems a bit off. Not to say this is happening here, but it is something to keep in mind as we have these discussions.

I have to disagree (amidst all my agreeing) on what was shared about Shadow's post. By the way, thanks for sharing Shadow!!:D

We can get great information from non-raw vegans when in comes to fasting. Just read between the lines. Though many folks like to claim that the king of juice fasting (Dr. Norman Walker) was a raw vegan, he wasn't, and many raw vegans follow his teachings on juicing to this day. He also lived past 100 years of age. Who wouldn't take this guy's advice?

Before there were raw vegans their were health conscious folks who juiced, and I'm sure they had and continue to have great stuff to share.

Yes, the David Wolfe's and Victoria Botenko's have great things to share, but so do MANY of the amazing folks on this site who could probably write a book just like the "gurus" on any of the topics we bring up.

I say, let's not limit ourselves. David Wolfe got to where he was due to experimentation, he's the first to share that bit of truth about himself. Let us give oursevles and each other the freedom to experiment and come up with our own way. What's so amazingly wrong with this?

With wisdom and some research, give the MC a try if you wish. If it works great! If not, oh well. Easy.

If you're doing a fast for spiritual reasons great! If not, that's ok cuz this may not be your way. Who came up with these fasting and juicing rules anyway??

Anyway, I've probably spent too much time on this issue. I feel like I'm debating over raw doctrine or something, and this is so not what I like to do.

More than anything, I just want to wish everyone the best on their path to greater health.

Signing out.:D

Solace

05-03-2007, 11:11 PM

Agree, I think we've covered this topic WELL...... This may be my final post on this one, Again this thread was not started to tell people NOT to do the MC, just a word of concern = THATS all !!! Much love all - peace out. :D

Solace

05-20-2007, 03:45 AM

DONT HATE ME........... but I am bumping my own thread, I am seeing too MC threads too many new people not getting both sides:( :confused:

misslinda

05-20-2007, 02:59 PM

Solace

05-20-2007, 03:08 PM

There are so many types of fasting but in ALL that are void of solid foods (not including the more contemporary "smoothies" that people consider fasting) that goes beyond 5 days or so, is bound to take the body to higher levels of detox and increasing challenges to work thru and overcome thru lengthy fasting.

If the faster takes the simple principles of fasting into consideration and is aware that there are two types of toxins that excrete, one can prevent such [intense] toxicity by assisting that process.

The failed fastings I have always read about, are the ones that worked,exercised to high exertions or didnt' stay hydrated.

Granted, the average person can fast up to 40 days if done with care. It is the conduct of the fasting that makes it beneficial.

Every fasting has it's pros and cons.

Fasting truly is simple not complicated.

A sacred art,
;)
+ If anyone knows anything about fasting its probably this CHICKY here MISS linda;) ! Yes i believe you need to have a great understanding and correct mentality to go into a fast. I have been Raw for months now and I still am not sure if I am ready- I will still be cooking for my family while juice feasting and that in itself will be hard. Most people just learning about raw are not ready to jump into a fast UNLESS they know what they are doing OR are sick and have no other choice. With knowledge and time - your body will tell you whats right.

misslinda

05-20-2007, 03:23 PM

With knowledge and time - your body will tell you whats right.

LOL, I am still learning and learning dearest Solace. I had corresponded with a fasting doctor overseas and his knowledge and insite is amazing BUT even his views can be argued....like you said here, "your body will tell you what's right." The body/mind is full of wisdom.....

;)

Solace

05-22-2007, 03:24 AM

LOL, I am still learning and learning dearest Solace. I had corresponded with a fasting doctor overseas and his knowledge and insite is amazing BUT even his views can be argued....like you said here, "your body will tell you what's right." The body/mind is full of wisdom.....

;)

Amen sista.......................;) :p :p

IamLoved

05-23-2007, 05:42 PM

Hello all,

I know this thread is super long and I hate to make it longer but I just wanted to post my experience here. I did the MC for 26 days last year. I did 2 days of juice, 26 days MC then 2 days juice, for a total of 30 days fasting. At the time I felt great. Really it was not that hard once I got used to it. BUT after I resumed eating (and eating was raw living foods in moderation, meaning mostly fruits and very limited nuts ect.) I felt awful! I gained back all the weight I had lost plus some including inches. I do not feel like this is a healthy thing to do at all! Ever since doing this it has been really hard for me to lose weight and I really feel like it messed my metabolism up doing it. I am just eating raw and letting myself heal up, but I do worry that I have dameaged my system by doing this cleanse.

So to Solace, I am glad that you have posted this. I feel like every time I hear of someone doing the MC I cringe. I just would hate for them to do it, lose a bunch of weight, then go back on raw, gain a bunch of weight, get discouraged and give up. (Which is what happened to me).

Raw is definately the way to go and if you give it time you will lose weight and gain the body you are suppossed to have. Just don't try to rush things along with a MC. It could really cause a lot of problems.

And that is my 2 cents.

Boy this thread has gotten very expensive! :D

Alisha

www.deschenesdanes.com

Solace

05-23-2007, 06:14 PM

Thanx for sharing your story its really important that you did :) !
I believe it has had the same effect on your body as being anorexic for a year - had on mine . I have had a lot of trouble taking weight off since then:( . Thankfully Alissa dealt with this on the new show:)http://rawcast.rawkinradio.com/

Take care !

SchoolOfRAWk

05-23-2007, 06:37 PM

Were you working out much during your master cleanse though?

SchoolOfRAWk

05-23-2007, 06:54 PM

FirstGarden

05-23-2007, 07:37 PM

What about all those who DON'T gain it back at all?

I have gained after fasts, but I have also piled in the calories after fasts. It has to be done right, and some of our bodies cling to calories differently. That is why I asked about how much you worked out.

Good questions. I believe everyone gains after a fast. But to differing degrees. Also, I've read that because of the cleansing and increased efficiency in the body's assimilation/approbation process - resulting from fasting - that we absorb more nutrients. (The modern diet is VERY clogging). And, as such, one of the listed benefits of fasting is, ironically, weight gain.. that is, for those who seek to gain weight.

One the other hand, wouldn't greater absorption also mean that we would crave less food? (Providing there are no emotional issues involved that cause overfeeding?)

I think missionarymamato5's concern is valid. But I have to ask, were there any other factors coming into play which affect weight gain? Like a possible glandular condition? Personal metabolism, and so forth? Each person is a walking chemical factory. And reactions are as different as there are people. And your doctor doesn't know for sure.

A better question might be - what is the consensus of experiences after lengthy MC fasts? And other kinds of fasts, for that matter?

This is not a slam on you, dear missionarymama. Tom Billings' story is very interesting and inspirational. He's a great guy who pioneered in raw foods and fruitarianism. After years of ups & downs, he concluded that it wasn't workable for him. But he also concluded that it wasn't workable for anyone. Thus, the somewhat famous epitaph -- "The Dietary Failures Of Tom Billings" -- reverberating around the internet and the natural food community. The "BeyondVeg" website was established, and boy did the mud fly!

An absolutely brilliant proponent of raw foods named Lauri Forti sounded in and ripped Billings to shreds. Eventually she was banned from posting on BeyondVeg. I was very saddened about the whole situation, and by her writings too. I was so impressed with her knowledge. I could have sat at her feet. She scientifically deducted and reasoned so well. She could have been a real beacon to the natural food community. But the *spirit* in which she wrote -- however correct, exacting and precise -- had a entirely ruinous effect on all that she had to say. So much so, that I could not read her writings, at least in regards to Tom Billings.

The point is, fasting in general has *too* ancient a history of success -- rich in case history and testimony -- to ignore or easily write off. (I believe the same is true with raw foods.)

That was.. fasting in general. Maybe there's something different about the MC that isn't so beneficial. I just don't know of anything off hand. I simply point to the experiences of individuals as unique and different, while trying not to make blanket statements or provide pat answers for every conceivable situation. ;)

andypdx

05-23-2007, 08:41 PM

Solace

05-24-2007, 01:46 AM

I am on day 5 of a 40 day MC, and here's the way I see it.

1) Everyone is responsible for their own decisions. If a person jumps into something without proper forethought or preperation, it is their burder to bear. At the very least they will have learned a lesson.

2) If you want to be worried, be worried about water fasters! ;) I've gone up to two weeks on nothing but water, and in comparision, MC is a cinch...A CINCH! I have tons of energy, and my head is getting clearer each day.

3) If someone is unprepared, or in a position where the MC might be harmful to them in their own particular case, chances are, they aren't going to be able to hack it. For most people, the MC takes a lot of self control and will power to carry out.

4) Fasting provides benefits for me that even a raw diet doesn't. I have some particularly stubborn genetic level 'incurable' chronic ailments that only fasting can aliviate the symptoms of. I would be getting even better results with pure water fasting, but I have a job and bills to pay, so the MC is the next best thing. Hopefully, this 40 day MC will put me back into remission, and I can switch back to raw after that. For me, fasting is at the very least a chance to escape a great deal of pain and suffering, until the need to fast arises again.

So, don't worry about me. I'm doing fine. I'm sure that most of the people who are able to stick with the MC are doing fine as well.

You stated it right there Andy- I had posted on here, Unless you are sick and have no choice;) . Then again, as Firstgarden stated, maybe other factors come into play here for you too, I dont know so I am not saying I do when I make this statement = Raw done "right" is supposed to cure most things, maybe not what you are dealing with though........ But again, my post, MY worry is for those coming on here who don't really "know" I have a feeling Andy that you do know A LOT about RAW and have been around Veganism for a while= from what I remember from your prior posts. For those though who come here and don't know and see soooo many MC threads on a RAW website, one that is "supposed to" be balanced around Alissa Cohens RAW foods book. Alissa is not telling people in her book or video to do the MC and now she has kinda backed that through her radio session the other day. I say great go for it- to those who know what they are doing. Just be carefull for those who don't. Again, I love this site and really care, I am not at all trying to cause any divisions here REALLY:) . All the best to you on your MC Andy and all others, as David Wolfe would say "have the best day ever!":rolleyes:

SchoolOfRAWk

05-25-2007, 11:57 AM

I would be just as concerened about new people going raw for health and eating cups and cups of nuts and other fats all day - without knowing a thing about raw.

Revvell

05-25-2007, 12:44 PM

Which is why most here will recommend people get Alissa's book and dvd's and/or take a class with one of her teachers.

Revvell

I would be just as concerened about new people going raw for health and eating cups and cups of nuts and other fats all day - without knowing a thing about raw.

SchoolOfRAWk

05-25-2007, 12:54 PM

Yes, and some will and some won't. Most MC people will do the same - get the book and not just base everything on 1 message board. That is my point. :)

trinity082482

05-25-2007, 01:05 PM

I think with any temporary fast. Most of the weight that may come off does get gained back. This has been my experience. I think every body is different and some people may not regain most of the weight but its a personal choice. I agree that eating a balanced raw diet is much healthier in the long run!

Solace

05-26-2007, 11:47 AM

I would be just as concerened about new people going raw for health and eating cups and cups of nuts and other fats all day - without knowing a thing about raw.

shhhhhhhhhh,,,,, don't tell um that;) I feel like I have been eating way to much FAT- because of stress- my body is saying NEEDS PROTECTION ! Hay Revvell, maybe I need that e-book of yours:( :) . This is definatly an emotional connection here. I think though most peoples bodies will tell them Enough with the FAT already- lets change things up ! Your body usually KNOWs- but sometimes we brainwash our own bodies..........:rolleyes:

Veganforlife

05-26-2007, 01:31 PM

I have never done the MC, nor will I. Years ago I did the cabbage soup diet, which even thinking of it now makes me gag. But I am not one to say do it or don't do it. I bookmarked Alissa's web site months before I went back and started reading it. And reading it and reading it and really reading it. Even then I didn't jump right into it, although I knew it all made sense. I read others writings regarding raw food.
I feel my body is pretty well cleaned out after close to a year of being 100% raw. Proving this is my healing of my migraines (53 year's worth of 'em) and healing of my hypothyroidism after 6 years up and down on meds for that, which I'm off the meds totally now.
I listened to Rawkin Radio's show no. 8 and Alissa and Revvell talked about the MC and I agree with both of them. It is not raw - the maple syrup and it's not natural. I too feel as they that if you commit to a 100% raw diet, your body will clean and heal itself naturally, not drastically.
BUT, having said that, those that are doing the MC, do please use caution. Are you doing it for a quick fix; a quick weight loss? If yes, hopefully your efforts will not go to waste (waist) at the end of the day and you won't create new problems having done this MC.
I prefer to use my common sense (I'm not saying you that are doing the MC don't have common sense, please), but I am thoroughly enjoying all my raw foods I am eating. Foods I haven't eaten in years. I mean how cool is this that I can now have ice cream, brownies, pizza, calzones, "burgers", but all raw and healing, good, living foods! It still blows me away that I'm eating like this. I could not do day in and day out of what the MC suggests - but that's me. I think Solace waaaaaay back in the original posting just was wanting to caution folks; as it is not a natural or even a safe practice. We all didn't get unhealthy and/or oveweight over night or in 30 days or 40 or 60 days. But eating a pure, organic, living, 100% raw diet, you will cleanse and I personally feel it will be much easier on your system.
Just words of caution. Simply words of caution.
As hard as we are all trying to get the word out on the benefits and goodness of a 100% raw diet, something like the MC could be a downfall for us. I've even seen the MC recently discussed on a local news station. One of the anchor gals did it and did lose about six pounds, but that is not what raw is all about. If that's why you are doing the MC - then have at it. If you are doing it to prepare your temple (body) for wholesome, living, 100% raw foods, hmmm, I'm not thinking you need to. Our bodies are very forgiving and healing. I think something drastic upsets the balance there.
That's my 2 cents, so now what are we up to? About 7 cents? HA!!! One more thing - be sure to listen to show #8 to see what the gals say about it (MC). I tend to put my faith in these gals. They've been around the block so to speak. Oh Revvell/Alissa you know what I mean!!! ;)

FirstGarden

05-26-2007, 05:48 PM

It is refreshing to read posts with such differing views, and with so much civility. It is good to know that intentions are well-meaning and pure. They clearly are. I just have to wonder - most people who frequent the forums are raw to some extent - 20% - 50% - 75% - 90% 100%. And 100% is encouraged and is an ideal held by most everyone. And yet there is a great deal of tolerance for those who are anywhere in between, albeit they are continually encouraged to go raw as much as possible.

Why is it then that the MC is treated with less tolerance in this regard? Why is it regarded as so terribly unraw? I don't defend the MC because I do it. I don't. I have no reason to defend it at all. I'm just looking at the principle here.. and maybe not even principle, because I trust Solace and all who raise concerns. Maybe it's a question of judgement and perspective, that's all.

From my viewpoint, the MC is a good deal more raw that what many partially raw foodists are practicing. The lemon is raw. And isn't the cayenne? The water is good and neutral, if pure. We can focus on the heat-processed maple, but isn't the MC predominantly raw anyway?

I think Solace waaaaaay back in the original posting just was wanting to caution folks; as it is not a natural or even a safe practice.

On what basis can the MC be regarded as an unsafe practice? What specifically is unsafe about it?

Why so hard on the MC?

Is it an aversion to fasting in general?
Fear? Emotional reaction?
Does failure for one mean failure for all?
Are people getting ill or hurt by it?
Or is it because *some* use it as a 'quick fix' or crash program for their eating disorders, then crash & burn or somehow fail.. and now the MC gets the bad press rather than the emotional issues that are really to blame?
Is it regarded, due to its popularity, as some kind of a competing program, thereby causing insecurity?
And where cleansing comes in, why not call all forms of fasting extreme, impatient, radical, reckless, or something that should not be practiced, in favor of a slower, perhaps safer raw food regimen?

I agree with MissLinda that it is more a matter of conduct during a fast than the fasting itself - an ancient disciplne venerated across the ages, and practiced by some of the greatest minds/teachers/heroes/icons this world has ever known. Are they to be regarded as reckless extremists who exemplify unsafe practices?

It's really more about *personal* application:
Is it feasible for that individual?
Their spiritual condition?
Their chemistry?
State of health?
State of mind, emotions, motives and so forth?

But I hasten to add, by agreeing with another does not mean that I disagree with those who pose honest questions and concerns.. I would never promote divisiveness or a spirit of disunity. For even if we find we disagree a little (and I mean, very little), we find that we disagree agreeably. And our agreement and common ground are HUGE on the health issues - maybe 99.5 or better, so why trip on the differences anyway? ;)

Maybe this needs to be said. Our greatness comes not by how overwhelmingly unified we are - or how uniform we are in our thinking - but rather by our diversity. And our greatness is made manifest by our love, which is greater than whatever disagreement may come along. There are no "good guys & bad guys" where there is love. And our love is great, not because we never feel anything else (and are never tested accordingly) but because we do feel & experience other things like occasional fear, apprehension, difference of opinion... and love regardless.

When two people see eye to eye on EVERYTHING, one of them is not thinking. We were made to think, experience, differ on occasion; but most of all... to love.

Amen brothas & sistas? Okay, sermon over. Free smoothies for everyone after the service!

FirstGarden

05-26-2007, 05:57 PM

Solace, I think threads like this are healthy because they promote free thinking. And as always, there's nothing wrong with a little caution. Thank you for starting it. :)

RaisingAlex

05-26-2007, 06:45 PM

Firstgarden
Perfectly said, once again.

Raw Love
Melissa

www.rawbabyalex.blogspot.com

jshizz

05-26-2007, 06:58 PM

I think the thing we really need to ask is not if it is natural or if the Master Cleanse is dangerous.... but DOES it help the person awaken to a new and better lifestyle?

You nailed it right on the head. I am only on day two of the master cleanse, but this is only after months of researching online and through books down to every last detail of what it involves.

I know the damage I have put my body through in my 27 years on this earth, and it disgusts me to think what's "living" in there. To me, the master cleanse is much more natural and less invasive than a colonic. It just comes back to what so many others are saying, to each his own.

I too am only reaping the extra benefit of weight loss, but am doing this to detox my body and mind. I have all intentions on trying to go as raw as I can after breaking the fast. Nothing is motivation to me like not getting to eat anything for 10 days!

Thank you all for your personal insight, I have enjoyed reading this thread, it has provided alot of valuable information!

andypdx

05-26-2007, 08:28 PM

Well said, FirstGarden. I'm on day eight of a completely RAW MC, and I'm doing excellent. I haven't kicked the bucket yet (knock on wood), and I plan on retaining this mortal coil through the end of day 40. ;)

I tried my first fast nearly 20 years ago, and although this is the first time I've ever tried the MC, I must say that it is easily one of the easiest...even when considering the salt water flush...which I'm almost used to at this point. :o

I remember being on pure water fasts in the past, and I HATED them. Well, more precisely, I liked the results, but absolutely hated how tired and woozy they made me feel. The MC is just the opposite. I work 10+ hours a day, and have plenty of energy to do all of my work. In addition, I can see that I'm finally getting a handle on my emotional eating issues. I've always been an emotional eater, and let me tell you...there is nothing more empowering than being to say that I've had nothing but lemons, cayenne, raw agave, water and sea salt for the last 8 days. On top of this, many long standing health issues are already showing signs of improvement (Some of which actually got WORSE after switching to raw).

As far as I can tell, the Master Cleanse is all PRO and no CON.

Remember, I've been at this for nearly 20 years, and I've done a great deal of research. My bookcase is chock full of books on fasting, veganism, raw foodism and holistic health principles. Nothing I've ever read would lead me to believe that something like the the MC would be 'dangerous'. Sure, I've read a lot of criticism from the 'other side'....which in the case of people who fast is something like 99% of the people you interact with every day, but I've never seen any HARD FACTUAL EVIDENCE, either spoken or in print that even comes close to prove that this is in some way dangerous.

In fact, if it weren't for my own tenacity and self assurance, I wouldn't be where I am today. You should have seen the firestorm that erupted when I first told my family that I had become a vegetarian! Heck, they probably would have handled it better if I had told them that I had sold my sold to Satan, or that I was gay! These were tough times, and a lot of friction prevailed. In the end though, it all boiled down to my parents saying with as much misinformed, patronizing sympathy as they could muster that they were really "worried" about me. "YOU'LL DIE IF YOU DON'T EAT MEAT!!!" Never mind the fact that they were shoveling meat down their gullets like it was going out of style...I was the crazy one. I was the misguided one. I was the one who needed help. Of course, they never offered evidence. It was always hysteria, hearsay and wild speculation.

And then when I went vegan... (hoo boy!). Do you realize how embarrassing it is for someone to attempt to pull off an intervention on you? :eek: "Oh Andy...that going vegetarian thing was one thing, but this VAY-GUN thing is downright insane!" ...but now, 15 years later, I'm by far the most healthy person in my family.

So anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if there's been one common theme to the last 20 or so years of my life, it's been the constant exasperated disbelief of others in response to my own dietary decisions. And this is great. I really do appreciate when others are worried, but that kind of concern holds much more weight when it's supported by a dose of strong factual evidence.

So...if you have any, please send it my way! I'm not trying to be flippant here - I'm really sincere. If anyone reading this thread has any strong supporting evidence to show why the Master Cleanse diet should be harmful to anyone (save those who are recovering from major surgery or operate heavy machinery, etc...), in contrast to everything I've read and learned in the last twenty years (not to mention the results I am experiencing right here and now in my own life), please let me know! :)

misslinda

05-26-2007, 10:34 PM

* chuckles *

I think we can all agree that --the salt flush in the MC program is nasty!:p

On a personal note, I find the astringent qualities of the lemon juice draining to the spleen and muscles along with the salt flush so I would never master it as a lengthy fast. As a interim shorter fast, possibly.

I entirely gave up the salt flush over two years ago after consulting with a renowned medical intuitive. So glad I did!

These boards, dont' get me wrong but being here 3 years, 99% are yo yo fasters and have food issues that interfere with the effects of fasting. Many come back to fasting over and over....come to find out that there digestive health becomes weaker because of the initial post fasting trauma.

I mean just because a person fasts and then eats bad, that doesn't mean the next fasting is going to be beneficial.......in fact, depending on the eating and duration, that person would be better off eating than fasting.

LightLover

05-27-2007, 11:21 AM

You are right Missl: you can not clean your body without willing to clean
your mind; and viceversa. It's both or nothing...:p

LL

misslinda

05-28-2007, 01:49 PM

you can not clean your body without willing to clean
your mind; and viceversa. It's both or nothing...:p

LL

It's amazing how much of our own mind effects our ability or inability to heal but more so, I speak of the physical health that weakens with yo yo fasting which is we are more than likely dealing with here on these boards~

The very first fasting I attempted, was the MC in 2004. The lemon juice was so potent and I had underlying weaknesses plus a weak mind, I only lasted 5 hours.....I believed I was dying! I remember starting a thread here about it back then. I wasn't dying, I was detoxifying yet I could not understand that mind,body and spirit. I recall having episodes of eating bad--I mean really really bad.......I look back and I can clearly see how my body struggled to heal,struggled to fast again etc

The post fasting stage is the most sensitive and critical and too often we hear about faster's eating binges,carelessness etc (whatever the reasoning) that CREATE more bodily system weaknesses. It's like driving a car that clearly needs a engine flush,tune up etc. Try going further and it will eventually throttle,slow down or plainly stop.

It's no secret that lenghty fasting has depletion to a degree and it is the faster's job to self educate and understand that the rebuilding process (post fasting ) is critical. There are general guidlines but it must be tailored to each individual....you can figure that the first 6 days to a week of post fasting, the body is readily absorbing nutrients. Granted, there are moments when the body does want other things like exercise but never out of intellectual force.

My personal opinion, if one has a history of yo yo fasting and food abuse.....food therapy is the best and as you strengthen mind,body and spirit, the fasting will then be effective.......the weight shouldn't come back on if you have excess weight.

Post fasting is an art in itself that we never hear about....then the faster will blame the fast itself for "not" working or say their health got worse. It's real and it's a concern we often forget how delicate out digestive health is.....it involves all organs.

;)

Gwena

05-29-2007, 04:45 PM

MissLinda and Firstgarden:

Wonderful insight. I totally appreciate your honesty and knowlege with regards to fasting.
:D

Solace

05-30-2007, 01:48 PM

Thanks again everyone, MissL thanks for your info :) Veganforlife-LUCY thanks too for your post, nicely done. Gwena is doing sooo amazing isn't she, Amazing ! Have a great day everyone- as David Wolfe would say "Have the best day ever" !

sharon&stephen

06-10-2007, 01:19 PM

We announced to a group of our friends, last night, that we would be attempting change to a raw food diet. We emphasized this not as a weight-loss plan, but rather a commitment to a healthier lifestyle.

The harsh backlash we were met with felt very similar to some of the feelings of this thread. Admittedly, no comprehensive scientific research has been done to support or deny claims made by those who have taken the MC - just as no research of this type has been done on a raw food diet. Anyone can find convincing literature demonizing or exalting any and all dietary choices somewhere on the Internet. The only path we as infosumers can take is to use our best judgment and continuing growth to weed through this wealth of information and make a choice that is right for us as individuals.

We are completely new to this forum, and in fact this is our first post. The idea that we as newcomers to the Raw Food Lifestyle are incapable of making educated choices for ourselves based on the information available is a bit condescending. We love that this forum contains so much information and such a wide variety of ideas and approaches, but this won't be the only forum, website, or book that we consult in our journey towards better health.

We are very excited to try the MC and to transition into a raw food diet. Although we are new to this forum and approach to eating, the divergence of ideas available here are truly helping us to make these choices - helping us feel we can be successful. Thank you, Solace, for bringing up this issue of concern, but realize your choices of statements/wording come off as a limit on knowledge - especially to people new to this diet/forum.

The MC may not "solve all our problems," but we have to learn if it can be beneficial to us in our endeavor. We are living, breathing, thinking, and learning human beings with a desire to attain all we can from this change in lifestyle and in our lives. We don't believe in going into something as serious as a cleanse without significant research and can't help but believe we are not alone.

We hope the discussion forum continues to be a place for support and an exchange of all ideas. We are going to be experiencing intolerance and judgment from the people around us, and we hope that there is love and acceptance to be gained here.:)

-Sharon & Stephen