The one and only valid description of "RAW"

[LightLover]

Hi, I would like to invite you to work on a valid description of "RAW", mainly due to all the problems with almonds lately (see almondthreads).
This description should also be used for products that could have been
pasteurized or heatened (for example: a bag of almonds)

I think the following descriptions are not valid at all:

- Cold processed (not an objective decription);
- Raw (not an objective description)

The only valid description is: The ingredients in this product have not exceed a temperature of 108 degrees Fahrenheit.

We should all work on it, that all raw products use this one and only valid description.
All invited to agree or disagree with me. :p

LL

[Linda1970]

Agree! :)

[LightLover]

That makes one...:D

[Pailani]

It makes sense to me!

[Conscious Midwife]

Hi, I would like to invite you to work on a valid description of "RAW", mainly due to all the problems with almonds lately (see almondthreads).
This description should also be used for products that could have been
pasteurized or heatened (for example: a bag of almonds)

I think the following descriptions are not valid at all:

- Cold processed (not an objective decription);
- Raw (not an objective description)

The only valid description is: The ingredients in this product have not exceed a temperature of 108 degrees Fahrenheit.

We should all work on it, that all raw products use this one and only valid description.
All invited to agree or disagree with me. :p

LL
Nor has the harvesting, mechanical extraction, slicing, dicing, churning packaging or shipping of this products ever aloud the product to reach temperatures greater than 110

[tinystrawberry]

I agree. i will use that as my description from now on.
thanks ;)

[RawCutter]

is there anything else that can kill it besides temp?

[tinystrawberry]

RawCutter - Freezing it kills some enzymes i think, but not as much as heating it.

[andypdx]

is there anything else that can kill it besides temp?
Irradiation.

[hypnocmt]

I like the term living food as a descriptive b/c it is much less subjective. Or how about "all ingredients enzymatically active."

I agree though, things that say they are raw should be free of any steps in processing which heat the food above 110ºF.

Maybe if it were a big selling point to have a label That cert'd it as "110 rule approved" or such? ;)

We could campaign more actively with the suppliers of raw food stuffs...or organize a regulating and certifying body, Tha raw labelling issues are kinda like how "organic" no longer NECESSARILY means 100% organic. So, it is a good idea to check for stuff that is also labeled Oregon Tilth certified, or similar. The USDA Organic label is only slightly meaningful, right?

[Migrou]

I agree!!!! Definitely agree!!

[Pierre]

If you're in the country that has been metric the longest, why are you talking Fahrenheit? ;)

Those are 42.2 °C and 43.3 °C. Comiendo Pura Vida states that the limit is 47 °C. I was once on a plane next to an Indian who told me that it was 50 °C where he came from. I don't remember where that was, but Chennai reaches 47.1 °C and is in an agricultural state. Are any crops grown at higher temperatures?

I think that a label certifying the maximum processing temperature is a good idea, but there shouldn't be just one temperature. Just as a cat is warmer than a man who is warmer than a platypus, the maximum raw temperature depends on the food.

[sakaki]

"all ingredients enzymatically active."

oh! I really like this one, too! :D

[So Delightedly Raw]

The only valid description is: The ingredients in this product have not exceed a temperature of 108 degrees Fahrenheit.

We should all work on it, that all raw products use this one and only valid description.
All invited to agree or disagree with me. :p

LL

I'd like to strengthen the statement by saying something like, "None of the ingredients in this product have been subjected to a temperature greater than 108 (OR 110) degrees Farenheit, nor have they been irradiated."

Or, is that last phrase redundant?

[Pierre]

It's not redundant, and it's a good thing to include.

As to enzymatically active, raw sea salt is not, since it's all minerals. Neither is olive oil.

[michigan roman]

great thread call lightlover , totally needed .

my 2 cents is =

- this product has not been heated above 108
- this product has not been irridated
- this product has not been chilled below 40 (i dont know what temp should be just guessing)

plus something about it not being soaked . maybe =

* this product has not been heated over 108 , or irridated , or chilled below 40 , or soaked . and contains no animal products .

then a symbol is needed like a seal of approval . maybe crossed carrots (with their foilage attached ) in front of a pineapple (with its foilage) . all surrounded by a green circle .

ps - this is just off the top of my head and not a final submission .

[LightLover]

RawCutter - Freezing it kills some enzymes i think, but not as much as heating it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RawCutter
is there anything else that can kill it besides temp?

Irradiation.

** :D :(
Well, let's first begin with naming the temperature. If that is not succeeding
we can definitely forget the rest.

LL

[LightLover]

Maybe if it were a big selling point to have a label That cert'd it as "110 rule approved" or such? ;)

We could campaign more actively with the suppliers of raw food stuffs...or organize a regulating and certifying body, Tha raw labelling issues are kinda like how "organic" no longer NECESSARILY means 100% organic. So, it is a good idea to check for stuff that is also labeled Oregon Tilth certified, or similar. The USDA Organic label is only slightly meaningful, right?

* Your labelidea "110 rule approved" is great, shorter and more clear is impossible. Yes, the organiclabels say nothing: see the organicmilk story at Wall mart etc...Maybe we need a kind of Website like Wikipedia
for rawfood or an open source system like Linux.

LL

[LightLover]

If you're in the country that has been metric the longest, why are you talking Fahrenheit? ;)

Those are 42.2 °C and 43.3 °C. Comiendo Pura Vida states that the limit is 47 °C. I was once on a plane next to an Indian who told me that it was 50 °C where he came from. I don't remember where that was, but Chennai reaches 47.1 °C and is in an agricultural state. Are any crops grown at higher temperatures?

I think that a label certifying the maximum processing temperature is a good idea, but there shouldn't be just one temperature. Just as a cat is warmer than a man who is warmer than a platypus, the maximum raw temperature depends on the food.
-----------------------------------------------
* Just out of respect for the roots of rawfood I use Fahrenheit Pierre,
and the roots are not In Amsterdam, I can assure you..!:D

* About the temperature, this is what I mailed to another site:

A general agreement in the rawfoodworld about the importance of naming a tresholdtemperature is much more important then the exact temperature.
It opens the door to an open and honoust discussion, which would not be there using other descriptions.
Reading this thresholdtemperature on a product, which can variate from product to product, everone can choose for themselves either to buy it or not according to his or her (raw)standards. It's about offering the public the widest spectrum of choices (from Mc Donalds to the best raw products) with the most detailed information, and then letting them choose (not forcing them into our favorite directions).


LL

[LightLover]

oh! I really like this one, too! :D

Yes, it's much better than " all ingredients are rolling in their grave"
(SAD) :cool:

[LightLover]

Hi michigan, well you definitely need symbols in stead of text
if you want to name more than the temperature.

MAYBE WE SHOULD MAKE A "SYMBOL THREAD", where al creative people can propose symbols, just for fun, I can't draw so I leave that to someone else.

Maybe we should all together buy somewhere a big field with almondtrees?
Almond potluck, almond potluck...:D

LL

[Sooboopa]

What about...

NO ENZYMES HAVE BEEN KILLED IN THE MANUFACTURE OF THIS PRODUCT.

:D

[Pierre]

I suggest a papaya next to a number representing the temperature that is not exceeded. Papayas, if overheated, rapidly turn to mush.

[LightLover]

I suggest a papaya next to a number representing the temperature that is not exceeded. Papayas, if overheated, rapidly turn to mush.

Yes, we have to choose the most fragile food as symbol...

READ a new article on newstarget (Cornucopia Institute reveals agribusiness conspiracy etc....)

- Did you Us-people know they also want to label irriated food as pasteurized?

I mean...silent


LL

[soulstar]

LightLover thanks for this thread. In case people won't be going down to the non-related site I urge people to see this film about Codex Alimentarius and sign a petition to stop it. the video link is:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5266884912495233634&q=codex+Alimentarius+nutricide

This law mandates that all produce and nuts be irradiated (organic or not)by
the end of 2009.

There is info where to sign a petition to stop this at
www.healthfreedomusa.org

Thanks for everyone's help, and i am sorry if this seeems the wrong place to mention this, but the almond pasteurization law is just the beginning, according to the codex mandates.


to helping our produce and foods remain alive , and nutritious,

Soulstar

[soulstar]

It seems almond pasteurization was considered a valid addition to the raw and living food discussion.

I'm surprised that the mandate to irradiate all produce and nuts by 2009 is not considered a valid topic here.

Since the the codex issue I wrote about is considered non-health related, it has been posted to the OFF topic section, if folks want to read a bit more.

Once again, I am truly sorry, light lover for jumping into this thread. And I know we can agree that all irradiated foods will not be considered RAW, by any means.
Let us hope that we can stop this widespread irradiation of produce from occurring.

Soulstar

[LightLover]

Soulstar,

You don't have to apologize, threads can take different directions
at different times. It is useless to start new threads for every little
new soundvariation on the same theme.

Your Codex-issue seems to me important enough for the "discussion"
box. Hope we will all think so heading towards 2009.

LL

[RawVee]

So what's with the huge descrepancy between temps? Some books say 108, some say 110, some say 115 and some say 118. I've even read one that said 120, I believe (I've read so many at this point it's blurring).

Is there a study available that has determined succinctly the temperature that starts to break down enzymes? Just curious!

Vee

[luckitri]

I suspect that Pierre knows the answer to this as he posted that different foods have different temps. Also he knew that papayas turn to mush if they get too hot.

This is a wonderful thread. I thought that I signed against the Codex Alimentarius a few months ago. 2009 is fast approaching!

I would like to hijack the thread for a moment to ask if anyone knows where I can learn more about this irradiated food. What nutrients will be lost from it? If they have a bushel of tomatoes does the radiation reach down through the top tomatoes to get the whole bushel?

I love reading everybody's ideas. We could solve the raw temp being different for different items by just having a blanket label statement that this food has not been heated past its enzymatic active level - or something to that effect. Personally however I would prefer that the different temps remain on the different food labels. It would serve as a quick reference and educational tool for new to raw.

[LightLover]

Luckitri, I did read in a book of Brian Clement that, in order to radiate food, you have to use a dosis 30 times higher than you get in the hospital...

After reading this days a lot of mail/info about irradiation, and about the plans to label irridiated food as pasteurized food, I do agree that labelling for irridiation is as necessary as for the tresmarktemperature.

LL

[RawVee]

This is an interesting article...

http://www.medical-library.net/specialtiesd/framer.html?/specialtiesd/_enzyme_therapy.html

[veganman]

This is a very interesting discussion. Thanks for bringing it up.

One thought I had....since heat from the sun where some food is grown can exceed these temps, would it be good to qualify the heat we are concerned with as artificially-applied heat or something of that nature?

[Pierre]

I think that the plant, in that case, cools itself by sweating (or transpiring, as it's called when plants do it).

[LightLover]

So labelling about: tresholdtemperature and irradiation is wanted,
preferred with nice symbols.

ll