Growing an organic garden

[Rawkinlocs]

Greetings all,

My family and I are moving back to Washington (state) in July (YAAAYY!) and my husband and I had discussed growing our own organic garden and quite possibly fruit trees once we have been there about a year and gotten a home, etc.

My question is, when attempting to plant an organic garden, do we HAVE to buy packaged seeds or could we start something from the seeds of foods we eat? Like, could we take the seeds inside of a red bell pepper and plant them? Is there something special we'd have to do TO the seeds first, etc.?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer!

[Ireland]

Hi Rawkinlocs;

I'm far from an expert, but I do know everything I've read points to using organic seed. You want to make sure they're not genetially modified and to me, that would be the only way you COULD make sure.

Just a thought.

Oh, and congratulations on your move, Washington is BEAUTIFUL!!!

[sweetgoddess]

Yah Cherie! This is the BEST gardening environment I have ever lived in.

A lot of hybridized fruits and veggies--their seeds wont grow. And if they did, you might not want them to as they would not produce good plants.
Hybridized means the first generation of a cross between two inbred lines.There are hybrids of ( F1)cross-pollinated as well as of self-pollinated plants. These produce vigorous, high-yielding, pest-resistant plants with high-quality flowers, fruits or roots. The seeds you purchase and plant will produce plants true to type, but their offspring won't. Seeds saved from an F1 hybrid plant will be the next (F2) generation and will very likely produce plants inferior to the parent. Do not waste your time saving the seeds from hybrid
It is recommended to only save seeds from open pollinated varieties of plants.

Personally, I would start out buying organic seeds ( Territorial Seed Company sells seeds that they test in our climate-great place to buy from and lots of organic) and then save the seeds from those establlished plants. So after your first season, you would have your own seeds.

You will need a book on seed-saving because all plants are different and there are guidelines you must follow when planting.
For example, broccoli is cross-pollinated ( as are most cole crops) . If you plant 2 varieties of broccoli within 200 yards of each other, they will cross-pollinate and you will end up with a hybrydized plant. So if you want to save the seeds, you have to plant different varieties of broccoli at least 200 yards apart from each other.

It sounds involved, but its really not. One good book would help you. It's quite easy to figure out--and you can always just plant one variety of any breed and not have to worry about pollination and distance!

Oh, also, seeds that say biodynamic instead of organic are great also.
Seed packets will have codes on them letting you know all this!

Also heres a great link :http://www.seedsave.org/
Beware of the giant slugs haha ! ;)

Warmly
Carmel

[Sparkle]

What a great question and thread. I've lived in WA for 3.5 years. I've had a garden for 2 years and am anxiously waiting to start a new garden. This year I'm trying square foot gardening in raised beds. It will be organic and easy to manage. I can't wait!

I've ordered heirlooms seeds from an online source. With proper storage and using the square foot method that doesn't involve overplanting and thinning - my seeds should last me at least 5 years. That's a pretty good investment.

Good luck on your move and garden!

p.s. I wish I could convince my DH to buy some fruit trees. He just sees the mess involved with leaves and fruit droppings. *pout*

[Rawkinlocs]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions as well as the well-wishes on our upcoming move!

I will "chew on" what you all have said and check out the link provided by SweetGoddess. I can already tell that gardening is gonna be more than a notion and I'm not sure I'm up for it NOW, but hopefully by then, my mindset will be different. I just know that I want my family to eventually eat ALL organically grown vegetation, but it's just too costly to buy for our sized family...so I guess the next best thing is to grow our own, as much as we can.

Thanks again! :D

[JustMe]

Sparkle,

I just bought a book on square foot gardening! I was wondering if you know it would be just as good to buy plastic containers and divide them instead of building a big square out of wood, etc.? I think it should work just as well. What are your thoughts or the source you use? Thanks!!

[VeganVixen]

I like seeds of change organic seeds,I recently got baby corn ,spinach,and black paste tomatoes-cant wait for them to grow!!!Also my fav. gardening book is ......
Organic Gardening for Dummies (lol,its REALLY good though)

[sweetgoddess]

I love ordering from Seeds of Change also! Wonderful company.

Last year I tried square foot gardening. It was interesting. Not much stays in a squarefoot I discovered, constantly clipping things down to stay in their allotted space. :rolleyes:

[VeganVixen]

lol that sounds funny-I can just see you saying "you stay right there" or "dont think about breaking into this square buddy" :D

[rawpriestess]

My hubby grows many organic gardens, fruit trees, veggies, herbs etc.

Do NOT plant in plastic containers, as the plastic is very bad for plants, if you put worms in plastic they will die, so you can tell it is bad stuff. You can't use metal either as it will leach metals into your food.

The best thing is stone as we use, raise stone gardens, or you can use wood, although you don't want any kind of treated wood, or scent wood, such as pine, or fir, or cedar. Any wood with scented oils can change the taste of your foods, that is why we use stone.

We save seeds from year to year, my hubby also rotates his plants. He actually teaches an organic gardening course, where he tells what to plant the year after you plant any certain kind of plant. It takes four years before he plants the same plant back where it was.

He uses no fertilizers or pesticides, he simply plants crystals under each plant, and that is what makes them grow. And no bugs, no diseases, no pests not even birds at all.

He is a High Priest Wizard, so he knows about alot of nature and plants etc.

[Rawkinlocs]

Ooo, sounds good RawPriestess, thanks! I would be interested in his class once we arrive in WA and get to the point of doing our own gardening!

[RawTruth]

I just bought a book on square foot gardening! I was wondering if you know it would be just as good to buy plastic containers and divide them instead of building a big square out of wood, etc.?

Mel Bartholomew's book is great but quite dated. Check out his website for how he's evolved and modified his original work. I like how he's established a foundation to teach this intensive, highly productive method to farmers in impoverished countries.

I've never before found anyone who hasn't achieved the goals he sets out (sorry, RP!).

The Square Foot Gardening Website (http://www.squarefootgardening.com/)

Rawkinlocs, when I bought this house 5-1/2 yrs ago, I decided that, if I was going to plant trees -- which I definitely wanted to do -- it would be a waste for them not to be fruit trees. So, that's what I did. I have fig, peach, apricot, persimmon, and cherry (though I'd lacked a male tree until now), and also planted berry vines, but they haven't fared well. My neighbor has an apple tree which is available for the picking, and my other neighbor has phenomenal white figs -- they're they most succulent fruit ever. Pale green on the outside and pink-to-purple on the inside and big enough to fit into my cupped palm. I say -- definitely plant fruit trees. I know the climate will necessitate different types than down here, but ... there's little more exciting for kids than picking their own food. (Oh, yeah, I forgot the dwarf lemon and orange ... and my husband planted a grape vine.)

[Revvell]

...don't have much space for planting anything ~ that's not overrun with the landlady's stuff (not to mention POOOL!), we are using Earth Boxes which we used last year living in a one-bedroom apartment. One thing I found last year is ~ give cucumbers some room. They take over the EVERYthing!!!


Also, you might check to see if your city offers free composting boxes. Ours does if one takes a 1-hour class. They have one type for folk who live in apartments and another for those who live in houses.

Cherie, best of times for you during and after you move!!!

Injoy ~

Revvell

[Rawkinlocs]

Thanks for this info RawTruth and Revvell! I'll look into those options as well.

I don't know...part of me is like, "Geez, don't feel like I'm really cut out for growing my own." But I feel ike I'll need to do so eventually. I guess I've just gotten spoiled and lazy 'cause this seems like a LOT of work!

[sweetgoddess]

Cherie, if you dont want to grow your own you can join a CSA. ( community supported agriculture) where you purchase a share from a farm. Generally you get a box of produce ( veggies/fruit) every week fresh from the farm gardens, often times delivered to your doorfor around $25 a week. Yum. Just another option.

And this only seems like a lot of work because you are not actually experiencing it yet. It's not! Its just not familiar at this point, thats all. :)

[RawTruth]

Also, once you get it going, the Square Garden method is such a small amount of work, it's absolutely amazing. No weeding. Way less time a week than it takes to get in the car and drive to the store, let alone do the actual shopping. But ... you gotta do what's right for you. For me, the convenience of walking into my backyard to "shop" and knowing exactly how organic it is and ... the pennies it takes to eat on, all make it worth it.

[JustMe]

Thanks Raw Truth for letting me know about the update. I'm a little discouraged when I found that out, but I think i will get the video now. Thanks again!!

[rawpriestess]

Dear Cherie,

When you get up here, call me 360-458-4446, and you can come out to our place, and get some starts.

We have purple garlic, elephant garlic, white onions, red onions, yellow onions, 3 kinds of strawberrries, 4 cherries, 2 hazelnuts, 3 almonds, 4 apples, 6 kinds of grapes, 4 kinds of tomatoes, hundreds of squash, zucchini, crook neck hubbard, etc., cucumbers, red peppers, yellow peppers, jalepenos, dragon thai peppers, kiwi, raspberries, blackberries, huckleberries, logen berries, cranberries, lettuce, cabbage, celery, mustard, arugula, wild mountain lettuce, horsetail, camomile, tarragon, basil, oregano (3 kinds) mint, chocolate mint, parsley, cilantro, rosemary, marjorum, and of course night shade, although you wouldn't want to eat that.

Anyway, this is all I can think of at the moment, because we haven't planted this year, this is what grown naturally here, from the seeds that planted themselves last year.

When we plant we have even more goodies.

Also, there are hundreds of natural and wild plants that grow around us because we have a meadow, and forest and lake, so we even have mushrooms, and fungus, and flowers and all that to eat too.

[RawTruth]

What do you DO with all the that bounty? Do you sell it, dehydrate, have a really large family? Wow.

[Autumn]

Rawpriestess,
What area of the country (or what country) do you live in that you can grow almonds? Hubby said they wouldn't grow here (Alabama). I would love to add them to our gardens.

It killed me to spend so much money the past 2 weeks at the produce/farmer's stand. I can't wait until everything is up and ready again. :D

[rawpriestess]

Hi,

I am in Washington state.

It is temperate here, not alot of hot, not alot of cold.

Usually varies between 40 to 80 degrees throughout the year.

We live on a lake, so the air is always damp.

But I think the real reason we can grow anything, is that my hubby is a High Druid Priest, and the plants love his energy,

Well, everyone loves his energy, he sits outside to meditate, and eagles, ospray, otters, dear, elk, mink, chipmunks, finches, peacocks, and pretty much every critter that lives here will be sitting either on him or within a couple of feet of him within seconds.

It is truly amazing.

But he talks to the plants every day, and uses NO pesticides or fertilizers of any kind, he does plant crystals (that he mined himself in the mountains near us) under each plant when he plants the seeds, or the starts, and he used raised beds with stone, and he places pyramids made of stone in the four corners of the gardens, and they just grow.

And we have heard, and know ourselves, that they are the very best tasting food on the planet.

[Rawkinlocs]

Well, everyone loves his energy, he sits outside to meditate, and eagles, ospray, otters, dear, elk, mink, chipmunks, finches, peacocks, and pretty much every critter that lives here will be sitting either on him or within a couple of feet of him within seconds.


WHOA!! Are you serious?? That is DEEP!

[Autumn]

Please forgive my ignorance, but your husband is a priest? How can that be? I didn't think priests were allowed to marry?

I am amazed, but not shocked about all the critters flocking to him. My husband's aunt was that way. Everyone in the family said the animals talked to her and she to them. Wild animals (like squirrels and chipmunks) would follow her into her house and just "hang out". :confused: :D I always thought that people who had this rapport with animals were truly special indeed.

We don't use any pesticides or anything else. I never saw the point in starting one's own garden if they were going to treat it with the same poisons as they do to the produce in the supermarket.

[rawpriestess]

Raw truth, we eat it or dehydrate it or we have Raw feasts and invite tons of people, we actually have a High Priest/ess school, so there is plenty of people around to eat.

Rawkinloks, YES, I am serious, this happens, I probably should take a picture, but they "feel" me and leave.

His name is Dragggon, so I call him Dragggon Doolittle, lol

YES, he is a High Druid Priest, we are not married by law, only by heart and soul. We both have lots of letters and such before and after our names.

He is a tender, gentle kind spirit, and although he eats meat the animals love him and so do the plants.

He is my one true love of my life.

************ UPDATE *****************

As my dear beloved was reading over my shoulder, he asked me to type this for him.

Druid clergy can marry.

The Druids are way ahead of their times, and do not chastize their religious leaders by denying them the pleasures of life.

And as for the creatures of nature that come to me, it is something that has always happened, as many of them are either sick or wounded and need my special attention. Even though they are totally wild, they will allow me to comfort and help them.

Not, saying that I haven't been bit before, but this is a very rare occasion, and was always with an animal who was terribly frightened by humans and hurt by them.

I saved a baby possum last year, we nursed her until she was old enough to live in the forest, she was 3 weeks old when we found her in the garden, our dog had scared her mother away the night before, it is a miracle that she even survived the night. Eyes weren't even opened, such a beautiful creature.

I saved a cougar from hunters, by letting her stay in our fenced yard, until they went away, she left shortly there after going the way I suggested to her, in my mind.

And as far as talking with the plants, I talk to them, human, animals the same I am an Earth Steward, and a Karma Facilitator and all Earth things need the same energy and attention, there is no difference in you, me, the deer, the birds, the grasses. We are all of this Earth.

And Alissa, keep up the good work of helping all of these people in their new lifestyle, even as a non-raw foodist, myself, I see the good you are doing, for Christine and all of these people.

(and Yes, there are even some of your recipes this carnivor, warrior, meat eater enjoys.)

[rawpriestess]

Rawkinloks,

You don't have to take any class, just come out to visit, get some starts, and we'll talk your ear off, if you're wanting to know about gardening.

It is soooo much easier having gardening friends, you just come over with baskets, and take as much home as you can carry, trust me there is always more. and more and more.

blessings,
Christine/rawpreistess

[VeganVixen]

too cool rp !!!!

I grow my plants (everything) in pots,urns or windowboxes-we have a ton of them-and my plants seem happy with the arrangment

although we live on a huge (79 acres) peice of land and have a big gaited garden -I will be moving soon and want to be able to take my plants with me-right now I have tomato plants , zuchinni, 4 heirloom varieties of tomatos,basi;cilntro,thyme,chamomile,spearmint,spi nach,parsley(italian and curled) and chives-and more will come soon!!! I havent planted the corn yet -but will soon,I love baby corn.....yum!!!

[sweetgoddess]

ok, Dragggon, just so you know, I think you are one very beautiful soul.

Christine, your lakehouse, gardens, and surrounding area sound absolutely divine. Can I please come live there? oh please? I will change my name to Morgan or Morgana .... ;)

[Autumn]

Thanks Rawpriestess and Dragggon for the taking the time to explain to me. I learn something new every single day (more if I pay attention!) :D I am very happy for the two of you- you sound like you have an incredible bond.

[VeganVixen]

Thanks Rawpriestess and Dragggon for the taking the time to explain to me. I learn something new every single day (more if I pay attention!) :D I am very happy for the two of you- you sound like you have an incredible bond.


you said it perfectly

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi Rawkinlocs,

Check out Heirloom seeds. They are extremely inexpensive and you only have to buy them once as you can use your own seeds after that.

<>< Helen of Tennessee

"Heirlooms are always open-pollinated varieties. This means that if the seeds produced from the plant are properly saved, they will produce the same variety year after year. This cannot be done with hybrids, which are a cross between two separate varieties, as the seed produced from those plants will either be sterile, or start to revert back to the parent plants."

"Remember those tomatoes your Grandmother grew, or the ones that the farmer down the road used to sell at his roadside stand? With the advent of hybrid seeds, the older open-pollinated varieties are getting harder to find. While the hybrids have many advantages (disease resistance, greater productivity, more uniform fruit, etc.) they just can't match the heirlooms for taste."

"Most gardeners agree that heirloom varieties should be at least 50 years old."

http://www.heirloomseeds.com/

I'm hoping to start my organic/heirloom garden, this year. We just had someone design our landscape, but I'm not happy where they drew in my raised garden beds (I'm doing square foot gardening). One of my boxes would be in the shade for at least 1/2 of the day. Same with part of the second square. So my DH and I have to make some changes, then we have to submit them to our home association for approval, then I can begin! It's going to be a while, a late start, but I'm going to do it!!!!

There is also an organic soil farm 1/2 hour from us, so I going to be able to get organic soil and organic fertilizer for my gardens - Yeah!!!! I tried making compost before and after one whole summer I think I produced a pail full. It takes a LOT of food/grasses/leaves/organic manner to produce a teeny, tiny bit of compost!

<>< Helen of Tennessee

[Judi-50-Calif]

I got my seeds from Southern Exposure Seed Exchange this year http://www.southernexposure.com/

My husband put together a raised bed on our property around 4 weeks ago and planted most of what we will plant. I had wished I would of read about the Square Foot gardening before he planted they have some good tips. I have done organic gardening for over 20 yrs with some years no gardening due to heavy work schedule...I use straw and compost...

I can't wait until our garden produces and we can start to eat,sprout, and juice all the yummy veggies.

Judi

[cordeliaflyte]

i just have a tiny garden, snatched from the little places the grass doesn't grow in my tiny apartment backyard, and some containers... last year was the first year i ever tried to grow anything, and did pretty well with tomatoes, potatoes (i was just vegan, not raw!), and various green veggies and herbs. this year, i'm totally excited to be getting into better organic practices and to use heirloom seeds and learn about seed-saving and stuff. thanks for all the links in this thread that will help me with that.

i saw this documentary at the boston independent film festival a few weeks back called "The Future of Food". i'd highly, highly recommend it to anyone, but especially to raw folks and gardeners. it's all about what GMO has done to food, and to farmers and consumers. it's extremely well-made and well-researched and STARTLING... i knew that GMO stuff was bad, but my goodness, what a disaster! Monsanto's (huge GMO seed/pestiside company) is working on crops that won't even germinate or grow if not sprayed with their special (nasty) pestisides. what a crime...

there was some statistic in the film that really shocked me, something like 97% of the vegetable varieties being grown at the turn of the century (19th-20th) are now extinct. all that bio-diversity and regional specification gone! it really inspired me to get with the program with heirloom varieties this year.

anyway, if you're interested in this film, they have a website (http://thefutureoffood.com/) where you can find out where it's showing or buy a dvd... there are lots of resources for finding out more about these issues, and for getting involved in CSAs an other good organizations.

[VeganVixen]

thats horrible ,geeesh for such a "brilliant" species -we sure are DUMB!

Have you heard of the bunny/human embryos that a group of japanese scientist created for stem cell harvest -they ARE destroyed before they develop -but how terrible!!!! theres more .... got to this thread .....http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=31822#post31822

[RawTruth]

Monsanto's (huge GMO seed/pestiside company) is working on crops that won't even germinate or grow if not sprayed with their special (nasty) pestisides. what a crime...

Speaking of Monsanto, did you know that we made it illegal in Iraq for the farmers to continue using their saved seeds; they must buy and use Monsanto. Wazzup widdat?

[VeganVixen]

omg ,thats HORRIBLE!

In afghanistan they have a large opium crop production ,the ones that are NOT run by "gangs" are run by farmers and they have alot invested in them and very often are used medicinally -the goverment will probably end it ,but did you know that only until recently has there been a need for rehab clinics -thats what I heard anyways...

[RawTruth]

... dang, girl ... your commas are making my eyes cross!

There's lots of info available on Afghanistan's opium production -- funny how our "War on Drugs" only seems to be in effect in the U.S. -- you can search and read tons online.

As for no need for rehab clinics -- do you mean in Afghanistan? It's my understanding that the opium is mostly exported.

[AubreyG]

Hi!

I have been exploring these threads and found this one so cool because my mother is an organic gardener. She has been gardening organic since she started gardening, and I have never once seen her use chemicals.

Sometimes, when I was a kid, she would go to the grocery store and buy organic fruits and make my sister and I save the seeds. She would dry the seeds in the sun from the fruits, and then sprout them, and plant them.

My parents live across the street from a woman who own a bunch of fancy horses, and the stable hands have always been nice enough to bring over the horse manure for my mom to put in her compost. She is HUGE on remineralizing her soil, as well, and about every other year, she will buy differnt kinds of pulverized rock and spread it into the soil before she tills the crops under for the fall. When my cat and I are there, my mom uses my cat's litter (feline pine) in the compost, and pretty much puts everything she can think of into compost. The result? A garden plot that continues to be more than bountiful year after year.

To cut down on weeds, my mom uses grass clippings from the mower, and spreads the clippings throughout the walking paths in her garden. She also uses wood chips that her and my dad make themselves for any fire wood that they don't use in the winter by running it through a chipper. She also plants certain kinds of flowers in her garden that are natural bug repellants. She is huge on planting hyssop to keep her garden "protected", and that is planted all around the perimeter. To keep certain bugs off of plants and fruit trees, she takes a spray bottle of water and puts in some organic citronella oil and sprays this on her fruits and veggies, or around the plants on the ground. A sprinkling of salt around plants if you have a slug problem is also a good repellant.

When the garden is done for the year, a lot of our fruits and veggies are frozen or dried for the winter. She also cans some of her veggies, too, but that isn't conducive to the raw diet. Nothing tastes better than her vegetables straight out of the garden!

Hope this is helpful, and congratulations on your pursuit of organic gardening.

Aubrey