Are "enzymes" real?

[mikeshafer]

Of course they are, but I'm talking about these that the raw foodists talk about. I'm day 21 on the raw diet, but does anyone know if there's actual proof that living enzymes in our living foods are what helps us digest raw foods easier? I've read (on the Internet) that there's no proof that these enzymes exist.

I'm not doubting the benefits of a raw diet, but I am questioning the science that we all take for granted. Now that I'm on day 21 of the raw diet, I'm wondering a lot of questions behind it all.

[luckitri]

My body tells me it is true.

[mikeshafer]

Yeah but I'm looking for science.... anybody?

[JGex]

Where's the proof they aren't real? Can you post a link to the site that claims enzymes don't exist? I'm open-minded.... and interested to see the article.

[kaybee]

I have wondered the same thing as mike--heres why: i have been told by various people that our stomach acid is so strong that it just breaks down everything, and that even if there ARE these enzymes, that they would not "survive" (i.e. maintain their integrity) in the presence of the stomach acid..... I dont know if this is true, but it seems that it COULD be... any comments on this? maybe these people who are saying the acid would just destroy the enzymes are just wrong. but i just dont know. comments? information?

thanks

kaybee

[RawCutter]

Of course they are, but I'm talking about these that the raw foodists talk about. I'm day 21 on the raw diet, but does anyone know if there's actual proof that living enzymes in our living foods are what helps us digest raw foods easier? I've read (on the Internet) that there's no proof that these enzymes exist.

I'm not doubting the benefits of a raw diet, but I am questioning the science that we all take for granted. Now that I'm on day 21 of the raw diet, I'm wondering a lot of questions behind it all.

do you use soap? or cleansers in the kitchen? meat tenderizers (prolly not in a vegan forum)? taken any form of drug? seen a firefly >flash<? drank beer?
eaten cheese? eaten bread? used paper?


if so to any of these and you have enzymes at work. enzymes accelerate a chemical reaction by lowering the energy needed for that particular chemical reaction.

inhibitors counteract enzymes from working. for instance, when you soak a seed, you remove the inhibitor to allow the enzyme to work to break down (digest) the seed for energy for the plant growing from it.


now you've asked two very different questions.

1. do they exist
2. do the ones we eat in raw food help us digest

to answer to first one, yes they do. they are everywhere.

to answer the second one, to explain this simply ... there is a thing called metabolic pathway. basically things get passed down the line getting smaller as they go.

as mentioned earlier, sprouting removes the inhibitors to allow enzymes to work. think of this as step 1, these blocks are then eaten by us and more enzymes are put to work, step 2.

of course this is a very simple example but as you can see, without step 1, our digestive process would have to work on a much larger chunk of stuff to digest.

so yes they do help

[Pierre]

Here are some named proteolytic enzymes:
Bromelain - found in pineapple, a bromeliad
Actinidin - found in kiwifruit (Actinidia)
Ficin - found in figs.
Bromelain is absorbed, and the body can use it to break down no longer needed proteins that are put in, for example, injured joints.

[rawpriestess]

hummm, good question,

my answer is yes, do I win?

[KatK]

Yes, but how do you know it's absorbed rather than digested as other proteins are?

[misslinda]

Dr Howell is a enzyme pioneer that you may want to google. If I understand correctly, and other long time raw fooders can validate or correct me........


With living foods where the enzymes are present, the food is digestible and doesn't require our pancreas to overwork and utilize our own enzymes completely to break the food down b/c it can process itself witht he living forces aka enzymes. Where as SAD foods, our pancreas works extra hard and has to produce those living forces....therefore we age,become unhealthier,develop other condition etc. our enzymatic production weakens.

Enzymes contain a protein but they act as carriers of the enzyme.


:)

[kaybee]

hmmm. thanks misslinda for the reference to dr. howell.

guess i just answered my own question: i found this:

www.enzymeuniversity.com/faq.html#

Back to List
Do enzymes survive the acidity of the stomach?

Research in the 1930's clearly demonstrated that enzymes in both bananas and carrots are reactivated in the secretions of the intestine. More recently, a study in the 1980's demonstrated that enteric-coated pancreatic enzyme preparations were no more effective than non-coated forms, indicating survival of the enzymes through the low pH of the stomach

hey y'all , for more info, go to www.enzymeuniversity.com/howellbio.html

kaybee

[misslinda]

yep, that be Mr Howell. He's better looking without the bifocals :D

If you want sources of cellulase, avacados and fermented foods contain cellulase:)

[Stina]

Enzymes are technically proteins that act like the team captain telling all of those vitamins and minerals to do their jobs. They tell the seed to hey, wake up and grow into a tree now. They're the reason I got this strange Raw buzz going on. The Enzyme Express......

[mikeshafer]

To dig more into this I looked up Raw foodism on Wikipedia. Check out this particular section:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_foodism#Food_enzymes_and_digestion


Some raw foodists claim that ingesting enzymes aids digestion in the mouth, stomach, and intestines.[citation needed] The claim about stomach digestion, however, goes against some claims regarding the biochemistry of enzymes. Enzymes are very sensitive to pH and their activity will be nullified outside a specific pH range.[21] The digestive enzymes produced by the stomach are active in the low pH (2-3) of the stomach, whereas enzymes found in foods will only be active at cellular pH (approximately 7).[22] The low pH of gastric secretions in the stomach counter biological activity found in food, to some degree protecting the body from the harmful effects of foreign biological agents.[23]

So the argument rages on. I'm not arguing if enzymes exist or what they are, but do they really assist in digestion?

[misslinda]

Hugh? What do you mean by if they "assist" in digestion? Are you referring to supplements?

OR do you mean raw foods with existing living enzymes aid in digestion?

[JGex]

To dig more into this I looked up Raw foodism on Wikipedia. Check out this particular section:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_foodism#Food_enzymes_and_digestion


Some raw foodists claim that ingesting enzymes aids digestion in the mouth, stomach, and intestines.[citation needed] The claim about stomach digestion, however, goes against some claims regarding the biochemistry of enzymes. Enzymes are very sensitive to pH and their activity will be nullified outside a specific pH range.[21] The digestive enzymes produced by the stomach are active in the low pH (2-3) of the stomach, whereas enzymes found in foods will only be active at cellular pH (approximately 7).[22] The low pH of gastric secretions in the stomach counter biological activity found in food, to some degree protecting the body from the harmful effects of foreign biological agents.[23]

So the argument rages on. I'm not arguing if enzymes exist or what they are, but do they really assist in digestion?

No, the argument does not rage on. Wikipedia, for those that do not know this already, is not a reliable resource for information. ANYone, with or without credentials can load whatever info they want onto Wikipedia.

My partner has digestive problems. We put him on a course of plant-derived digestive enzymes along with the change in diet. It straightened his intestinal problems out.... even when he eats the things we KNOW will aggravate his tummy, if he eats the enzymes before the meal, he will not have problems.

Call it what you want, but I've taken them, too, and the results have been all the proof I need.

[JGex]

At the very top of that Wikipedia page it states:


Some information in this article or section does not attribute its sources and may not be reliable.
Please check for inaccuracies, and modify and cite sources as needed.

It seems Wiki has even added their own disclaimer.

Next....

[mikeshafer]

I'm not arguing the benefits of the raw diet. I've dropped 22 lbs in 22 days as of this morning -- very impressive. And last night I finally felt a surge of energy at night rather than my usual crash-and-burn to bed strategy. BUT as a scientist I am trying to find proof that these enzymes are really what makes raw food easier to digest. Do our stomach acids destroy these? Why is 118F the magical temperature? There seems to be a lot of tribal knowledge and beliefs that we all hold dear, but I'm just trying to find the proof that this is true.

Wikipedia isn't a fully reliable source of knowledge -- agreed, but there is some dissent there. In this community of raw foodists, almost everyone is on the same bandwagon--that raw food is amazing, etc. I like to find dissent and conflicting beliefs to prevent blind group-think.

[Rawkinlocs]

I've seen people have this dispute over the "enzyme factor" of raw foods in the past. I've never really looked deeply into it or had the desire to do so. But one thing that those who felt that there was not much to the enzyme theories of raw foodism DID agree on is the fact that cooking food beyond a certain temperature (and that temp. varies depending on who you ask) denatures the food and destroys the nutrients.

For me, personally, that is enough, not to mention the way that I feel when I eat raw as opposed to cooked foods.

[Maria]

I take enzymes on the side, and I note a great improvement of digestion with them, so I would have to say they help in digestion by the way I feel.

[JGex]

I'm not arguing the benefits of the raw diet. I've dropped 22 lbs in 22 days as of this morning -- very impressive. And last night I finally felt a surge of energy at night rather than my usual crash-and-burn to bed strategy. BUT as a scientist I am trying to find proof that these enzymes are really what makes raw food easier to digest. Do our stomach acids destroy these? Why is 118F the magical temperature? There seems to be a lot of tribal knowledge and beliefs that we all hold dear, but I'm just trying to find the proof that this is true.

Wikipedia isn't a fully reliable source of knowledge -- agreed, but there is some dissent there. In this community of raw foodists, almost everyone is on the same bandwagon--that raw food is amazing, etc. I like to find dissent and conflicting beliefs to prevent blind group-think.

Trust me, I am the last person who will follow any blind group-think!! I've bought almost every book written on raw foods in the last few months and have done considerable reading.

I have found that the chemical and processed food industries have FAR more to lose than the raw foodists if people find out that a raw food diet eases a lot of common ailments such as indigestion and IBS.... even to the point of putting out "studies" paid for by said previous industries to support their claims that organic foods aren't as beneficial as the organic community is stating.

I like a good debate as much as the next person, but through my reading and personal experience, I cannot find much to dispute about whether people feel better eating raw foods. I can, however, find a LOT of things that point to processed foods contributing to disease and obesity and poor nutritional habits.

Congrats on your weight loss. That's a pretty powerful indicator that there is something very right about raw foods!

;)

[mikeshafer]

Cool, I think we're on the same page here. The reason I probe is that when I'm telling people about the fundamental reasons why the raw diet is so amazing, I feel somewhat weak explaining the "enzyme" factor. Typically I say "hey, I don't know the science behind it, but I can't dispute the results". I'll mention that movie that's showing in the Raw Food Film Festival this year that has a bunch of people with diabetes who go raw for 30 days and are all cured at the end.

However just yesterday someone said when I was talking about raw: "cooking makes the food easier to digest" -- is this even true? It's like being a weight-lifter--there's LOTS of tribal knowledge floating around the gym as to best form, best lifts, best diet.... and a lot of BS too.

Now only if raw can cure my headaches I'll be happy as a clam!

[hypnocmt]

I think people believe cooking makes things easier to digest because they are conditioned to believe that. Our minds are very cooperative in manipulating our perceptions so that they are congruent with our expectations. When a person in authority deems something to be so, our brains do what they can to comply. Selective ordering of our internal universes. Placebo effect.

In addition, I have noticed that cooked-eaters are more commonly seen wolfing things down. If they attack a fiber rich broccoli pine nut salad and a stack of carrot sticks with that kind of manic zeal, they will have upset tummies for sure, since they aren't used to chewing as they ought to.

cooking softens things up, so it is easier to gulp food down "whole" However, it does not do anything to reduce the work or increase the efficiency of our digestive systems.

[lauralee]

I'm really glad you started this thread! I have too found the diet to help me and there are soo many incredible case studies. But there are many well respected (at least I respect them) scientists and physicians who say the theory behind the raw food diet cannot be true. Since as a scientist I like to be able to defend my position in scientific terms, I tend to not mention the enzyme theory behind raw food. HOWEVER, I had a little !wowsers! idea the other day while having the most painful puking experience of my life probably.
I was puking from reaction to a peanut. I have a severe allergy to a protein found in peanuts. 1 minute after I swallowed the peanut, my throat swelled. After 30 minutes, my stomach began to cramp. This was the beginning of a 4 hour reaction to the peanut protein in my stomach and probably intestines.
All enzymes are proteins, and since this protein that I'm allergic to obviously DID NOT break down from stomach acids, then maybe other proteins (including enzymes) in food do not either. The peanut was probably cooked so maybe this means that not all proteins are denatured in cooking. Maybe 'denaturing' doesn't alter the protein enough to not react.
So, these are just thoughts and there aren't any conclusions from them. I just thought that the fact that people are really allergic to the proteins in certain foods may give some evidence towards these theories.
If you find any PUBMED literature, can you direct me towards that?
THANKS!