Nutrient values of nut and seed milks

[GrandmotherMoon]

Greetings! I just registered; I'm happy to have found this forum. Can anyone tell me the nutrient content of nut and seed milks, or direct me to someone who may have this info? I realize that raw almond milk is likely to contain the same nutrients as raw almonds, but how does one calculate the nutrient value of nuts that have been soaked in water, ground with water in a blender, and strained? I have been making inquiries of raw/living foods groups, and even asked the USDA/ARS Nutrient Data Laboratory, with no results. I would appreciate any info. Thank you! GrandmotherMoon

[Rawkinlocs]

I don't have the answer to your question...just wanted to say welcome! :)

[flutterfly]

Welcome here. I know I don't worry about the nutrient value in raw foods as my body tells me what it needs. If I were to worry about all that it would be more like a diet than a life style.

[PixieGreen]

Welcome! Part of the difficulty in answering your question is that different people add different ingredients and quantities to their nut milk, and some are blended more than others, some people use a fine cloth to filter and others a metal strainer.

For example, in the past I've used soaked almonds, filtered water, bit of vanilla, and agave nectar. The remaining pulp looked like well ground nuts, not so fine as flour. I think it is safe to say I did not extract all of the nutrients from the almonds. This weekend I switched to 50/50 almonds and sesame seeds, and the pulp was the same texture.

Today I used the same nut-seed mix (1/2 cup total) but blended well with two cups of water at a time, total of 8 cups. My pulp was nothin' but fiber. [I use a wire mesh strainer so I do get some fiber in my nut milk]. I can honestly say I think I probably got almost all of the nutrients out of the nuts/ seeds today. I like today's milk the best so I will continue to blend a little at a time.

Also, if you reuse your pulp in other recipes it is possible to calculate what nutrients you are consuming over the course of a day/ week since ultimately you're eating the whole nut/ seed. I used my mushy pulp from today in oatmeal chocolate cookies, or should I say cookie dough [ehem].

To find nutritional information on various nut milk ingredients check here:

Nuts: http://www.healthclub.com/foods/category.php?category_id=80&partner=

Seeds: http://www.healthclub.com/foods/category.php?category_id=41037&partner=

HTH,

Christa

PS: Remember to use the pre-soaked quantity when calculating nutritional value

[GrandmotherMoon]

Thank you for your replies. Perhaps I should explain my reason for my inquiry. Yes, I too find that my body tells me what it needs, and my deep and sincere wish for every soul on this planet is that all may experience the same, and be blessed always with the means to fulfill those needs. Not everyone has that luxury. Believe me, the last person who thought I'd take such an anylitical approach to this was me! When I began my journey on the raw food path in the late 70's, the only factual evidence I needed was how it made me feel. I never thought I'd be in a position to question any of it.

The reason I posted my question in this forum was because I am looking for this information on behalf of my granddaughter. I have been searching extensively for an answer to my question, and in the process I concluded that it might be best to stick to a "simple question--just ask for the facts" approach, because I found that when I included details about the situation, people would get focused on one detail of the story and get intense about that detail ("I can't believe you would give a little child soymilk, don't you know how harmful that is?" "You shouldn't be giving her goatmilk, animal milk puts mucus into the baby, you should just give her soy"), and then still not answer the question.

This is probably going to turn out to be more information than you wanted, but --especially since the "just ask and keep it brief" approach doesn't seem to be working-- I still have faith that the more of this story I put out there, the more likely it is that someone out there will relate to part of it and somehow be able to offer helpful information.

The main issue at hand, without going into the whole nightmarish story is this: my granddaughter is almost 4 years old, weighs about 25 pounds, and takes her liquids through a tube which we attach to a button which was surgically placed to go directly through her stomach (gastrostomy with feeding tube). The nutritionalist involved in her case had her on a liquid food called Pediasure, a canned concoction which is fortified with synthetic vitamins, with added hydrogenated oils and corn syrup to boost the calories. This supplement proved to be intolerably indigestible to her, and she suffered severe gastric pain. Finding an alternative to Pediasure was difficult because her parents (my daughter and her partner) were being scrutinized by the doctors involved in the case, and by Child Protective Services, because of their wacky, new-age hippie ideas. They came VERY near to losing custody of their baby because they stood up for what they believed would really help her when it became apparent that what the doctors were doing wasn't working. They were actually taken to court, and the only way they kept custody was to agree to a surgical procedure which they believed was unnecessary. Just try telling a judge who is threatening to take away your premature infant "We just know intuitively that her body is asking for raw foods and enzyme therapy" when a neonatal surgeon has taken you to court, and the judge has told you at the beginning of the hearing that he will rule in favor of whatever the doctor says. (Maybe this is a good place to anwer a question we have been asked:

Yes, my daughter knew that her baby needed her breastmilk. Since the baby was born at 26 weeks gestation at a weight of 1 lb 10 oz. and couldnt suck, my daughter used a breastpump faithfully but was not able to get out enough milk to meet her needs. The lactation consultant's advice: give up. She didn't follow the lactation consultant's advice. She STILL pumps even tho a 15 minute pumping session yields literally only a few drops. When she asked the neonatologists about giving the baby donated breastmilk so they could avoid giving her formula, she was told that body fluid was a biohazard and they better not even think about smuggling any in.)

Anyhoo... they had to be careful about making drastic changes to the baby's prescribed treatment at first until they felt secure that they wouldn't lose her. They did gradually reduce and finally eliminate the Pediasure, replacing it with a combination of raw organic goat milk, soy milk, rice milk, and fresh raw nut and seed milks. The change did wonders for her, and she no longer has to endure the agony of severe abdominal pain! Not only that, she is now growing, (slowly, but still faster that before) and she is making neurlogical progress now that she can focus on herself and what she is doing instead of being distracted--not to mention exhausted--by pain. So, what does this have to do with the nutritional content of nut and seed milks? We would like to show the nutritionalist, the neonatologists, and her pediatrician that her current diet is "as good as" the Pediasure, not entirely for her sake-- since now she isn't at risk of being taken from her parents-- but also to help other children in her situation who don't have access to alternatives because those alternatives are not approved by the powers that be. I can guarantee that the nutritionalist will not be impressed by "I'm really sure I squeezed almost of the nutrients out of those seeds, based on how the pulp looked." She will want to see facts on paper, and that is what I am looking for.

I know that the nutrient content of the nut and seed milks will vary depending on ratios of nuts to water, how long they are blended, how efficiently they are strained, etc. etc., and that is why I am hoping that an evaluation has been done using specific recipes and techniques which would be relatively easy to duplicate. I wonder if the agencies that measure the nutrient content of foods even considers nut and seed milks valid foods! In the meantime, of course we will keep giving her the nut and seed milks. And as for soy, she doesn't get much of that, but what can I say? She muscle tested strong for the soy milk (we were surprised), and she shows no ill effects from it like she did with the Pediasure. So now you know just a little of the story (the tip of the iceberg) so you know why I want to bother with nutrition facts rather than just letting my body guide me. Until that day dawns when everyone will trust and respect their own and everyone elses' intuition (I do still want to believe it is possible), there are circumstances when things need to be "proved" by being measured, and this is one of those circumstances.

I do hope that someone who is considered credible by the medical establishment had done that measuring, and that I can find out the results. I would love to put together a raw living liquid diet alternative to Pediasure, and would appreciate any help anyone can offer. Blessings to you all.

[Rawkinlocs]

WOW!! I'm SO sorry to hear about your grandaughter! But it seems she's doing better?

You know what, I doubt you'll get any judgement on THIS group about the goat's milk and soy milk...but perhaps others veering in silence from other places...


But anyway, you and your daughter did what you felt best and apparently, it DID work for her, especially compared to the pediasure (that stuff seems to always be the end all thing they use for kids when they feel they lack nutrients).

I really do wish I had some answers for you and I hope and pray that someone WILL be able to come through for you.

I'd even be inclined to ask you to post this in the main Raw Food Discussion forum area just so that more people can see and perhaps answer as not everyone visits this area since it's geared towards kids and parenting...there might be someone out there who can help you who might not see this in here.

In fact, I'm gonna do that...I'm gonna start a thread in that area asking your initial question and point people to this thread.

[PixieGreen]

I am sorry you did not find my previous post helpful, but having read your explanation I wonder if you could simply not strain the nutmilk. Your nutritionist may not accept "I think I probably got almost all of the nutrients out of the nuts/ seeds today," but surely she would accept the whole ingredients, finely ground and blended with filtered water? My nutmilk is not nearly as thick as soymilk is, even with the pulp [which is the consistency of whole wheat flour].

I sincerely hope you find a satisfactory answer to your question. I wish your granddaughter the best of health and send her my love.

Christa

[GrandmotherMoon]

To Rawkinlocs:Thank you SO much! Should I check in the main Raw Food Discussion forum for replies? Yes, she is doing better than she was before. She was extremely premature, and besides that she had a grade four brain bleed shortly after she was born, so she has her share of challenges. At the age of 3 1/2, she has just recently started holding up her head. She communicates with sweet cooing sounds, and knows sign language gestures for "more" and "food". (She is able to take solid foods by mouth;it is liquid that she has been unable to swallow). She is starting to be able to support herself on her hands and knees, too. She attends a pre-school where she gets physical, occupational, visual, speech, and hearing therapy. That experience is wonderful for her, she seems to like it a lot. Unfortunately, illness has become almost chronic for her, as she is exposed to other children at the pre-school, and one or the other of them is always sick. She was remarkably healthy up until attending school. (Except, of course, for the abdominal pain) The NICU nurses said that most premies make lots of return trips to the hospital because they get sick easily and often. We ran into one of her nurses about a year ago and she said she was surprised that the baby hasn't been rehospitalized at all, and that her parents should keep doing whatever they are doing! My daughter has been visiting various chat rooms and groups hoping to find someone who has had similar experiences, but has gotten amazingly hostile responses, from people who think she is a horrible person for questioning the doctors, to people who felt she wasn't enough of an advocate for her baby and "let" the doctors push her around, to people who accused her of lying and making up the whole thing. She has been banned from some "teen mom" type groups, and a member of one of the groups actually followed my daughter to groups she started, hacked into the groups and deleted them, and emailed her a hateful message saying that she will do that to any group she tries to start. It seems that nobody relates to what my daughter and her boyfriend and their baby have been through. I find it hard to believe that on the entire planet, there is NOONE else who had given birth to an extremely premature infant with severe challanges and wanted to help the baby heal with natural, commonsense methods instead of the heroic invasive methods of the medical model, and we have not given up in our quest to find someone with whom we can share this story and help to take it to the most positive place possible. There have been far too many people telling us that it is unrealistic to say that this child will ever be healthy and whole. We will never give up trying anything that seems beneficial, and although we know she is perfect and beautiful just the way she is, we won't give up hope that one day she will be able to speak and walk and eat. I am sure that there are people in this group who have been told they should accept some "hopeless" incurable condition, and went on to be healed through raw foods as well as through other methods; perhaps there is even someone out there who has a story similar to that of my daughter and her baby. If not, then I guess we will just have to be the first success story of this kind! Thank you for your support. GrandmotherMoon

[GrandmotherMoon]

To Pixie Green: Of course! That makes so much sense I can't believe I didn't think of it! The tube we use to feed her the liquids has a very tiny diameter so I would have to blend the heck out of it, but I think that is doable. On the other hand, she can take solid food by mouth, it is only liquid that she can't swallow, so I guess I could blend the soaked nuts or seeds with just enough liquid to make a smooth paste, but I'm still attatched to the notion of creating an all-liquid all-raw Pediasure replacement. I will try your idea, thank you!!!

[GrandmotherMoon]

I want to thank everyone for being patient with me while I learn how to post. I still don't know how to post a reply to a specific post!
Mary

[Allison]

If she can eat solids, then you could strain the milk, then make cookies or crackers out of the leftover pulp and feed her that. She would still be getting all of the nutrients.

[GrandmotherMoon]

Thank you Allison. I sometimes blend the pulp with some mashed bananas, pears, or apples. She likes it! I am mostly interested in the content of the nutmilk itself because I would like to create an all-liquid all-raw version of the cooked, canned, synthetic liquid supplement Pediasure.

[momma2twins]

I gave birth to twins at 33 weeks and my littlest baby was 2 lb 6 oz. At almost 3 and a half, he now weighs 24 lb 5 oz. I feel for you and your daughter. We have been the ng tube route (I switched GI docs to avoid the g tube), the Pediasure route, and are now on Pediatric E028 (Neocate) because of a soy and milk allergy. It's a rough job and even more difficult when you have had an IVH (which thank God, my boys didn't). Other than the weight issues and some speech issues, we've been lucky.

If you would like to give your daughter my e-mail address, feel free. You are more than welcome to e-mail me as well. I may not have the answers that you need, but I have been there done that and am still doing that. My passion is preemie nutrition and as I start my raw journey next week (I'm on the Master Cleanse right now) I will be transitioning my sons to at least 50% raw with me.

Best of luck,

Lisa

[GrandmotherMoon]

Allison, I just read your journal. What an amazing story. It is inspiring to read about how much the raw lifestyle helped your son. What I want to know is: WHY are we so concerned about our children's weight? I am concerned too, and I wish I understood why it is such an issue. Why isn't our childrens' progress and obvious healing enough for us to know that we are doing the right thing? I remember the good ol' days when I, like Flutterfly, just ate what my body asked for. How wonderfully simple. That changed when it was not just me I was taking care of; I wanted to be sure I was doing the "responsible" thing with my children. However, it wasn't all that difficult for me at the time because I was blessed with children who were full term babies, healthy, and developing and growing at the rate they were "supposed" to. It is much different now that there is a child in my life who needs special help. She is strong and has come through so much, yet I still see her as frail and delicate, and I worry that she needs to be bigger in order to be stronger. She is very thin. When she eats a higher ratio of raw vs. cooked, she seems more energetic, better able to avoid colds, etc.--all you raw folk know what I am talking about. But at the end of the day when she has eaten about a fourth of a carrot, a couple of baby spoonfuls of lightly steamed broccoli, a total of 12 ounces of raw almond milk supplemented with spirulina or barley green or Mazama mix and about 12 ounces of raw goat milk, we wonder if she has gotten all the protein and calories she really needed for the day, and if the last thing she gets before bedtime should be raw and vegan so her body can be unburdened as she sleeps so she can wake up recharged, or should we go for the protein and give her more goatmilk before bed, or go for the calories and give her a bunch of starchy things like cherrios or crackers since she can mouth and swallow those things so easily and she actually enjoys them and has fun eating them? I wonder if it is our own addiction to cooked foods that makes us worry that our children are hungry or inadequately nourished, and then we feel relieved when we give them something cooked. I was never all raw with my children; we ate lots of raw but also brown rice, whole grain pastas and cereals, sprouted breads, and a little dairy. So even tho I instinctively feel that mostly if not all raw would be best for her healing, I don't even have an all raw experience with my own children to fall back on. Her parents also understand the power that raw living foods can give to a body that is trying to heal itself, but they come up against the same concerns, especially since they almost lost custody of their child when they DID follow their instincts. So it is my hope that we can all support one another in really listening to our intuition whether that intuition says "Cook some barley for that child" or " Put that goat milk away and give her some carrot juice", and that we can be still and calm enough to look at our child and clearly see the results of what we are doing. Also, I hope that there are measurable quantities of specific nutrients in the raw foods we choose, so that it is possible to put together a (forgive me for using the D word) diet that contains what the doctors and nutritionists consider a balance of necesary nutrients and calories. That will make this lifestyle an option to a lot more people. Thanks again and good luck! Mary

[Ariella]

I dont think I can be a lot of help but when I make the nut/seed milk for my son in our vitamix (the 5000) there is not really hardly any pulp leftover.

Here is what I put in his: he is very healthy and drinks this stuff daily.

1 young thai coconut milk
handful of almonds (that have been soaked)
grinder full of ground white sesame seeds
handful of raisins
little bit of agave nectar
2 -3 bananas
filtered water - enough to make fill it 3/4 of a blender full after the coconut milk
natren life start probiotics (optional)

I put the probiotics in there if he has been exposed to sick children but it is not necessary, I am told by someone who has really researched it though that it is one of the best on the market.

I know this is not the answer to your question. I had emailed a raw midwife about what she would feed a preemie baby if breastmilk was not an option and she said coconut milk just FYI.

I hope that is of some help. Really I have no idea what the nutritional value is of that but like I said when I make it for him, I put it on the high setting for blending and i have very little pulp come out.

Good luck to you. What an ordeal to have to go through. I pray that you are able to find the info that you need!

Ariella


JUICE PLUS+
www.juiceplus.com/+dj73561

[Rawkinlocs]

What I want to know is: WHY are we so concerned about our children's weight? I am concerned too, and I wish I understood why it is such an issue.

In my opinion it's due to our conditioning. I remember my grandmother saying to me some years ago that a baby should be fat...that you shouldn't be able to tell the wrist from the arm. For some reason, fat babies equal healthy babies.

Also, doctors base our children's growth on a percentile chart that is nothing more than what is "normal" for most kids in America of a certain age and height...but a LOT of kids in America are overweight. My kids, even when on the SAD, have ALWAYS fallen somewhere right at the lowest percentile on their charts so I don't even pay much attention to that anymore based on those two factors.

I look to make sure my kids are developing properly, that they are growing, that they are still capable of learning and their brains are developing and that they are healthy. I also look at their faces. No darkness around the eyes, no sunkeness, complexions are normal...that is my gadge.

[VeganVixen]

I know a few vegan kids that are "overweight" ,but VERY healthy and look musclular and robust -not fat ,and another vegan 8 year old that I baby sit who is chubby ,but looks beautiful-her skin ,her eyes -every thing abot her screams healthy ,and she has a quite a few 8 year old boys who are head over heels in puppy love with her ,lol its so cute