View Full Version : Just looking for answers
02-13-2007, 02:01 PM
Ok, I understand now that this is a vegan forum. I was simply looking for an explaination as to WHY raw cheese is not a good idea from a health perspective. I'm not trying to convert any vegans to what is guess is evil cow's milk. Like I said before I like most nut milks and do not use cows milk except in the form of cheese. I am just looking for answers instead of a "we just don't do that" mantra. I understand if no one can offer me anymore info than that but I was surprised by the cold dismissal of my concerns. Isn't it ok to ask why in order to gain the fullest understanding of whatever it is you are about to embrace and wouldn't it be best to get answers from the source that is motivating you toward your ultimate change. I may end up giving up the cheese anyway, I just want to know why (from a health standpoint) I am doing so. I am throughly convinced in the importance of eating living/raw to individual health and ecological responsibility. Thank you for your time everyone :-)
02-13-2007, 02:15 PM
I understand your question and am happy to tell you what I know. :)
First, if your raw cheese is not organic, then you can expect all the same antibiotics etc...that are in cow's milk to also be in cheese.
Second, there is something in all dairy products (even organic ones) called casein, this is a glue-like substance that makes all dairy highly mucus forming and congests your entire body. You might want google casein for more info on this.
Third, remember that any form of animal fat is saturated fat and while eating small amounts of saturated fat from veggie sources may not be harmful, animal fat is linked to higher cholesterol levels.
Fourth, most adult humans have a very small supply of lactase (the enzyme needed to break down lactose (milk-sugar), so dairy products (whether raw or not) are not easy to digest and can cause bloating, gas, food allergies, acne, cravings and other issues.
Hope that is one step towards answering your question, and I am sorry you did not receive an answer on your first attempt.
02-13-2007, 02:18 PM
I never saw your first post. Sorry if you felt ignored or upset. I think (and I am NO expert) the thing with milk products is the casein (sp?) that is bad for you for one thing.
Maybe if you do a search under that banana-some things will come up.
I think the quick answer is that any sort of dairy product carries the same health/diet issues that milk does - whether it's milk or cheese.
Some vegans follow their lifestyle because of health reasons, some for moral reasons, some for both.
I started down the vegan path many years ago for health reasons. Virtually all of my research pointed to the fact that dairy products present many health issues for humans, such as difficulty of digestion to production of excess mucous...and many others. There is much information about the troubles caused by consumption of dairy. One source I would recommend is Dr. Macdougal (he's got many books and a website). Although he's not a "rawfoodist" per se, he is a strong believer in the value of a vegan diet. His book "The MacDougal Plan" was recommended to me many years ago when I first went vegan. It was very informative.
02-13-2007, 02:29 PM
Here's the deal:
Many people here don't eat dairy or other animal products simply for ethical reasons.
Many people here don't eat dairy or other animal products for health reasons - mainly because dairy products and meat products are not easily digested, therefore causing health issues to arise from just sitting and rotting within the body. But also dairy has been linked to many things such as excessive mucous and the elimination OF that mucous via colds, flu, and other respiratory problems; allergies; joint pain such as arthritis; eczema and more. Also, it has been said that animal protein (dairy or meat-based) leeches from our bones.
The thing is, though, MUCH of this is as a result of eating pasteurized dairy. Some may argue that RAW dairy is different and does not produce the same effects as pasteurized dairy and thus, many raw fooders who are NOT vegan or vegetarian do consume raw dairy products (and other raw animal products) and say they are thriving from it. Some may counter-argue that, though, and say that raw dairy and animal products cause more of a risk of bacteria and blood and pus and other unwanted things.
For everything, there is always going to be someone for it who can "prove" their case and someone against it who can "prove" their case. All-in-all, you have do what YOU feel is right/best for YOU...if you feel good eating raw cheese and have none of the ill-effects that others experience, then it is certainly well within your rights to do so and we'll still be right here to support you in the raw plant-based portion of your dietary choice.
However, as you acknowledged, this is a raw vegan/vegetarian support forum...the list owner has made it clear that because of this fact, the discussion of consuming animal products is not allowed here. Sure, we can tell you why it's bad to eat dairy but there are some people here who DO eat it and they just do so without necessarily disclosing it here on this forum. But when posts such as this one come up, then they tend to step in and acknowledge the fact that they eat it or don't find anything wrong with it and then rather than the discussion going in the direction of answering the question as to why it is NOT good to eat these things, it becomes a debated issue between those who do and those who don't.
We just recently had a discussion here about raw milk - the basis of raw cheese, of course - and because it began going in that direction, Alissa requested of me to remove certain posts and lock the thread up so it could be read, but no longer responded to.
That is why you were refererred to that thread and again, the thread locked up so it would not go down that same, old road again.
If you read the link that was provided in your initial thread inquiring about raw cheese, you will find some answers as to why raw MILK is not advocated (both health and otherwise) and that, I would think, should answer the same about the cheese. Dairy is dairy whether in the form of milk, cheese, ice cream, sour cream, etc.
So, please do not be offended if this thread ends up closed as well as a result of gaining the same sort of momentum as the other one did prior to Alissa having me shut that one down. It's a vegan/vegetarian forum that is designed for support of those who have decided this lifestyle is for them. You are free to eat raw cheese and we would not judge you for that - we just don't advocate it HERE...out of respect to the rules and the wishes of the forum owner...that's all.
There are websites out there on the 'net and some books written (Carol Alt's comes to mind) that advocate raw dairy (and other animal) products if you wish to explore those.
You may also wish to check out www.notmilk.com and check into reading the book "The China Study" - I've not read it yet, only seen recommendations for it so I'm not sure if it covers studies that show why we should not eat dairy or if it's just mainly dealing with meat issues.
02-13-2007, 02:47 PM
Thanks for the post...I learned a lot from this as well.
02-16-2007, 03:55 PM
I really really appreciate all of your very enlightening and informative answers. I am so excited about this new path in my life and all the information I can gather empowers me to continue with confidence and determination. Carol Alt's book was informative as well (thanks for the recomendation), it was actually one of the impetetus that sparked my interest in the raw food movement. I think I've known for a long time that dairy is weird with whole humans drinking animal milk thing and like I said before had a natural aversion to milk growing up. Along the way I think I became addicted to cheese because everyone told me "well young lady, if you don't drink milk you have to get clacium from somewhere, so at least eat cheese" :-) I don't like to feel like I am addicted to anything (except for dancing and performing of course!) so I am going to try to ween myself from it slowly. I am so inspired by you all and hope to join the ranks of successful healing soon. I've have tried so many things in my life to get healthy, and hopefully this will be the last.
02-16-2007, 04:53 PM
If you like to read....I highly reccomend that you read the "China Study". It really helped open my eyes from a very scientifically validated perspective. And the funniest thing of all......as I searched out for some "vegan cheeses" to give to my kids ....they ALL have Casein- Milk Protein in them:eek: !!!!! So, I am now on a venture to make some Almond cheeses this weekend- Wish me luck!
Have a GREAT day!
02-16-2007, 05:00 PM
OOO almond cheese! I'd love to know how that turns out!! :D
02-16-2007, 09:45 PM
I just received and watched the DVD called "EATING" from STorm and Jinjee's website.
If anyone is riding the fence about a plant-based diet, this will help you decide. Very well done by MDs who cured their own cancer and heart disease.
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