Brainwashed SAD husband

[RawNurse]

I have a husband that is causing me grief. I have been mostly raw for almost a year now (for health reasons) and want to transition more raw foods into my family's diet. My kids are mostly for the change, as long as it isn't too far out of their comfort zone (i.e. eating mushrooms, onions or peppers, etc.).

The conversation we had the other night consisted of him telling me that "eating healthy is too expensive" and "his way of eating wasn't all that bad."

How do I finess him over to my way of thinking without him bucking me? I have read Victoria Boutenko's 'How to live peacefully with SAD people' in 12 Steps To Raw, but all I want him to do is eat healthier. I am not forcing him to be raw or make the lifestyle changes I've made.

Oh, and another thing. He tells me that he thinks my lifestyle is extreme. I made the comment that now that I am healthier, that I feel guitly about feeding the kids macroni and cheese ( not very often, but it was a 'for instance' food type thing). That was when he started doing a little bit of labling. By the way, I am not 100% raw to kind of keep the piece, since it is such a sore spot for him.

I don't know. Maybe I should just leave him alone for a while and endure the comments about me 'seperating myself' from the rest of the family by making myself different meal (i.e. a salad when he makes chilli). Even though I know this is the best way for me to eat, it sure is difficult.

[pdx kris]

We get so excited about the changes we see when we eat a raw diet that we can't help but want the people around us to share in our abundance. Unfortunately, we can't force anyone into changes, just like long before we found raw, no one could have forced us into change.

What we can do is live by example. You know how uncomfortable it is when he calls the way you eat extreme? He goes into that same defensive place when you critique his diet. What I would do in your situation is say, "Honey, we are both doing the best thing for our bodies right now, and I'm okay with how you eat, so please accept the way I eat." Yes, I know that pork ribs and mashed potatoes are not the best thing for someone's health, but that is the best he can do right now, and it's okay.

As far as the children go, if they are open to more raw dishes, that's easy. It's getting them to even look at raw food that is the hard part, and you're well past that! I am guessing you prepare their breakfasts and lunches? Make those as raw as they will handle, and then at dinner serve choices for the whole family. If you and the kids only eat the raw stuff and your husband only eats the cooked stuff, you've still maintained the peace, taken everyone off the defensive, and you still get to eat raw while offering your children healthy options.

[tvillemom]

Rawnurse, welcome to the board!
I hear ya on the SAD husband topic. It wasn't that long ago DH and I had a HEATED argument about how I had become someone SOOO different from who he fell in love with. It really scared me because I wondered if he was trying to tell me that he couldn't love who I was becoming. To make a long story short, during our "talk" when we each calmed down alittle, I let him know that I would NOT force anything on him. I told him how much I needed him to take care of himself, because I didn't want anything to happen to him. After this talk, DH and I rarely talk about it anymore. I make my food, I offer it to them (I have 3 kids) and I let them eat what they want. Yes, I still make all the SAD favorites. It hurts me to feed them this, BUT, I share my knowledge with them, and know that one day, my kids will be old enough to choose, and maybe one day, DH will come around. I know his "anger" was just out of fear, people don't like change, and food is such a part of "who we are", that's just something you may have to come to terms with. Keep the peace. Just my opinion.
Wendi

[aenea]

challenge his way of thinking, tell him to try the 30 day challenge even if he isn't 100% raw and he should see a difference in himself. Just like you think he is brainwashed, he is probably thinking the same about you. I had a ton of misconceptions about vegetarians before I stumbled upon Alissa's site the forums and read the book and I just got the book yesterday. Even if he won't do it for 30 days acording to the book people notice a difference after a few days.

[DavidZaneMason]

PDX said it exactly right. All you can do is be radically successful and happy! What people need is not really education - there's plenty of THAT available these days. What they NEED is an example! Ha! ha! A model of goodwill, peace, happiness & success....in dietary and all other matters.

-David Z. Mason

[D'vorah]

Well said, David.

I'd recommend the book "Living Among the Meat Eaters" by Adams.

Deborah

[lissomllama]

I have a husband that is causing me grief. I have been mostly raw for almost a year now (for health reasons) and want to transition more raw foods into my family's diet. My kids are mostly for the change, as long as it isn't too far out of their comfort zone (i.e. eating mushrooms, onions or peppers, etc.).

The conversation we had the other night consisted of him telling me that "eating healthy is too expensive" and "his way of eating wasn't all that bad."

How do I finess him over to my way of thinking without him bucking me? I have read Victoria Boutenko's 'How to live peacefully with SAD people' in 12 Steps To Raw, but all I want him to do is eat healthier. I am not forcing him to be raw or make the lifestyle changes I've made.

Oh, and another thing. He tells me that he thinks my lifestyle is extreme. I made the comment that now that I am healthier, that I feel guitly about feeding the kids macroni and cheese ( not very often, but it was a 'for instance' food type thing). That was when he started doing a little bit of labling. By the way, I am not 100% raw to kind of keep the piece, since it is such a sore spot for him.

I don't know. Maybe I should just leave him alone for a while and endure the comments about me 'seperating myself' from the rest of the family by making myself different meal (i.e. a salad when he makes chilli). Even though I know this is the best way for me to eat, it sure is difficult.



First of all: Don't ever stop eating healthy just because someone close to you won't do it or disapproves of it. It is YOUR body and YOUR health. I'm married to a SAD eater as well and while we are one in a way, my body is my temple and I refuse, REFUSE to trash it. No matter who says what. Your husband may truly believe that what he eats is healthy (though I highly doubt he believes it, deep down we all know the truth) but if he truly loves and honors you, he would never ask or demand you to stop doing something that makes you feel healthier.

Secondly, it is entirely possible to be raw with a house full of SAD eaters, you just have to get through that awkward transition period. The first thing to realize is that you can't change your husband by force and you can't even change your kids in this matter but you can stay strong in your practices and convictions. Eventually they will probably come around and do similar or the same because they'll see how healthy and vibrant you've become.

Raising the kids may have to be a bit of a compromise. By all means fill the house with fresh raw fruits and veggies and encourage it. If your children grow up around this good stuff it will become part of them. You don't have to force it but just make it available and encourage it. Also, explaining to hubby that marriage and child rearing is for BOTH of you, is needed. He needs to support your choices in front of them and allow you the freedom to serve them raw foods as part of your right and need as a loving mother.

As far as that sillyness about raw veganism being 'extreme' or radical ask him this question and it should wake him up a bit: "which seems more extreme to you- Eating only fresh, simple foods right from the tree/vine or eating something that was created in a factory using many odd chemicals and them packaged by a machine and sent to a big giant building by a truck?" If he can't cleary see which is more radical and ridiculous then we may have a larger problem here.

To the subject of price: There are many ways to make raw more affordable, you just have to be crafty about it, but the bottom line is that when you adapt a raw vegan lifestyle, after detox you simply don't really get sick and you definitely don't age and degrade like the average person so you save thousands upon thousands on medications, doctor's visits and all that the general sad eater spends money on as the years go by. This is preventative care. Also, if you practice natural hygiene you will save even more money and it usually all equals out in the long run. Isn't your health and well-being worth a little more a month on groceries?

All you can do here is put your foot down about yourself and show him and the children with love and acceptance, how good this lifestyle is for you and soon they will see. Please don't compromise your health just because your family is confused. They will learn to accept it and get over their media-induced prejudices in time. Hopefully this is all coming from caring and concern for your well being but it sounds like hubby needs to be more supportive and understanding and should make an effort to learn about this more and come at it with an unbiased approach.

The change starts with you, and the healing and beauty will spread like a giant love-infection. Just watch it do it's magic. :)

[michigan roman]

welcome to the board raw nurse :)

i live by myself but when i visit family and friends i was finding myself so critical of how they ate it got bad . then i thought wait a minute here = theres no one on earth that can absolutely say eating all raw is for sure whats best . we can say for sure theres some cooked things we know are bad that you shouldnt eat , but maybe a diet consisting of say half raw half simple plant matter cooked like dry beans - rice - boiled or baked potatos - steamed vegis - dry roasted peanuts - etc = simple unprocessed plants , and the other half raw plant matter is gonna be found to be best . maybe everyone just has to cut out things like sugar - frying - meat - dairy - salt - etc and theyll live at their healthiest . maybe salts the big culprit , we cant say for %100 positive sure . well many say they can on both sides of the matter , but i havent seen the long term evidence made absolutely clear in enough cases . thusly i backed way off my guns concerning my dietary veiws with others . for myself im still %100 raw , but i no longer believe i know for sure thats whats best . and it may be for me , but 50 / 50 is better for someone else . so i got down off my high horse and came to peace with the matter , and just determined raw is whats best for me so lets go into the future a ways and see what happens . but you have kids so its much more complicated . and i sure am not trying to say do this i know its right here , im just presenting this idea . and thats ide try to eliminate all processed stuff like pop - chips - cookies - candy - pasturized juices - etc . and make it just simple cooked plant matter plus raw . things like hot air popcorn - brown rice - mashed potato - dry beans - frozen fruit juices like %100 orange juice - dry roasted peanuts in the shell saltless - refried beans and salsa on lettuce beds - steamed vegi - spaghetti sauce on rice - etc . oh and always have chilled water in fridge cuz its satisfying and quick . you get the picture . a whole bunch of people feel this is optimum human diet and it just may be , we dont know . plus with things like potato - rice - oats - dry bean you can eat real cheap . and just make sure to include as much raw as the family will eat . and try to get hubby seeing eating in that way for health and savings and he might move over to that diet . there youll find solid ground and see what the future brings , what we'll learn about diet . it could be if we eat half cooked simple and half raw and drink a certain vegi and herb juice mixture it shall be whats best , know one can say thats for sure absolutely wrong . maybe we just have to figure out what each persons body chemistry is deficient or over abundant in and adjust the herb and fruit drink to suit them and theyll attain thee ultimate state of health . or maybe in say a year raw foodist shall get a major voice on tv and your husband shall agree . im just saying for now get to the simple cooked and raw plant matter posistion which is for sure a big improvement over s.a.d. .

well good luck

[RawNurse]

;) Thanks for all the support. My last posting was my first, and I was pleasantly surprised by the amount and speed of the responses.

Thank you, Tvillemon, for the scriptural quote. I also am very spiritual and can identify treating by body like a temple. Just as a bit of trivia, the Nephelum (angels took forms of men, then had offspring. the offspring were called Nephelum) were all raw vegan? Those big burley bullies that terrorized normal humans before the flood were all raw vegans. That in itself says that we can still be strong and healthy without meat/products doesn't it?

Anyway, I loved the support. I don't know a single soul who is raw like me. I live in Indiana (middle of meat and potato country) and have learned sooooo much about fruits and vegetables that I never knew existed. There are so many new things that I want to try, but don't really know where to begin. That being said, with my husband's resistance, I feel the pressure.

I understand where everyone is coming from with the 'teach by example' advice, but I thought he would have come a little further than he has seeing my weight loss, vision improvement, energy increase, and the like. I try not to cringe when I hear the kids tell me that Daddy let them have Debby cakes for snack after school when I made effort to supply pleanty of fruits and prepared vegies for them, but kids will be kids.

I can't remember which one stated that there may be greater issues than raw lifestyle at hand. And there are. I feel that his reluctance to see him the way I see him plays a good portion of the game. He is 35 year old, 6'3" and 330 lbs. He is constantly tired, has bags under his eye and has excuses for all. He refuses to acknowledge his diabetes and I flat out told him that I fear for his health.

His only retort was "well, in your field, you see people with problems every day and you think you see them in me" - - - he is in denial!!! One of these days I hope he gets out of it, I just hope it doesn't take a heart attack to do it.

Okay, I'm scared for him, but it's only because I love him. I don't think I could live without him. But choices are choices and I have to respect that. I may not like it, but I have to respect it.

Well, thanks again for the support. I've talked enough.
Janet

[D'vorah]

Just as a bit of trivia, the Nephelum (angels took forms of men, then had offspring. the offspring were called Nephelum) were all raw vegan? Those big burley bullies that terrorized normal humans before the flood were all raw vegans. That in itself says that we can still be strong and healthy without meat/products doesn't it?

Oh, gosh, you're absolutely right! ROFL, I never would have come up with THAT one, but it's right there in the Bible. That's just great.

Deborah

[RawNurse]

What does ROFL stand for? :confused:

[aenea]

rolling on the floor laughing.

[trinity082482]

Can you convince him that you are willing to be frugal in other area's of spending in order to make up for what you spend on raw? Do you think that might eliminate his complaining about expenses?

[JGex]

;)I understand where everyone is coming from with the 'teach by example' advice, but I thought he would have come a little further than he has seeing my weight loss, vision improvement, energy increase, and the like. I try not to cringe when I hear the kids tell me that Daddy let them have Debby cakes for snack after school when I made effort to supply pleanty of fruits and prepared vegies for them, but kids will be kids.

I can't remember which one stated that there may be greater issues than raw lifestyle at hand. And there are. I feel that his reluctance to see him the way I see him plays a good portion of the game. He is 35 year old, 6'3" and 330 lbs. He is constantly tired, has bags under his eye and has excuses for all. He refuses to acknowledge his diabetes and I flat out told him that I fear for his health.

His only retort was "well, in your field, you see people with problems every day and you think you see them in me" - - - he is in denial!!! One of these days I hope he gets out of it, I just hope it doesn't take a heart attack to do it.

Okay, I'm scared for him, but it's only because I love him. I don't think I could live without him. But choices are choices and I have to respect that. I may not like it, but I have to respect it.

Well, thanks again for the support. I've talked enough.
Janet

Is it possible that he may be thinking that if you get all skinny and healthy that he may no longer be attractive to you? Even big strong guys get a little insecure every now and then.....

[michigan roman]

JGex just wanted to say that your signature is VERY appropriate , it sums up my feelings exactly .

[lovenmama]

I'm from Indiana as well....I completely understand what you are saying!!!

[portiz]

You can't change anyone that doesn't want to be changed.
You can't help anyone that doesn't want to be helped.

My BF and I have had the same (although not heated) arguments over our diets. He was a body-builder for 5 years...so the traditional chicken/tuna/protien diet was his norm.
When I first started telling him about this diet, he thought it was another one of my fads. But then I bought the 9-tray excalibur dehydrator; a juicer; i started using my food processor every day; etc.

Fast forward to now...
I love and CRAVE salads and fruits and that is what I normally buy in bulk. I still cook SAD and generally, I have a rotating supply of fresh/frozen fruits and vegetables. Whatever I don't use for myself fresh, will immediatley be chopped and stored in frozen ziploc bags for a regular SAD meal. I've began cutting down the red meat in our diets (he's noticed) and have replaced the main meal with larger portioned appetizing fruit and vegetable dishes.

I guess I'm lucky he has a sweet tooth because one of the things that he is surprised with are the RAW desserts, fruit tarts, and pies that I've made. He still can't believe the banana ice cream is just frozen banana...something so plain and simple and delicious.

While I havent' completly gone 100% RAW, I've incorporated more and more of this into our diets. He loves the soups and because they are so filling, will generally only eat about 1/2 the main course, because he knows dessert is coming...

Maybe you could convince your husband in that manner. Start with the sweets, concentrate on making RAW dishes with that...there are some pretty fancy recipes here with just using the more common fruits and vegetables. Show him the chocolate pudding (I think the one that uses avocado) and THEN tell him there's no chocolate in it whatsoever...

like i said, i'm not 100% RAW and i know my BF will never be 100% RAW, but at least the fact that he's willing to be open-minded about trying new things, is what keeps me motivated. I sometimes catch him red-handed (dipping into my almond supply--the latest one where i am marinating them in honey and cinnamon to make into bars, asking for ice cream...etc, etc)

I forgot to add: if i'm running low on fruits (oranges are his favorite), he will notify me, adding that he has no more oranges. at that point, he's always pulling out his wallet and making sure i get to the store to re-stock his supply...and that's where i take advantage in buying in bulk.

[BecauseICan]

I have a similar situation but my hubby is willing to eat healthier than in the past and has even agreed to a trial month of raw. But he has told me that he will NEVER give up meat. BUT he said he will make sure the meat he eats is only organic. At first I was just vegan and I was excited about going vegan but we were all already eating "healthy" in comparison to most ~ no boxed stuff.... anyway.... my point is, at first when I only went vegan I was VERY excited and wanted my entire family to do it ~ they didn't want to, now I'm not only vegan but raw too so now I'm all excited about the raw thing and would love them to all do that too cuz I know how healthy it is............ BUT I have come to realize that each person is on their own journey and the paths that they choose are their paths. We are all interconnected and therefore what we do does affect others but it's all part of the plan and we can learn from the triumphs and mistakes of others as well as ourselves. My hubby says he will never give up meat... that is his journey..... my journey does and will continue to intersect with his and as he sees me getting thinner, healthier, happier, etc. .... he may -MAY- have a light come on that says "Hey, maybe I should do that!" but then again, he may not. So, until that day does or does not come I'll continue to fix and enjoy my raw vegan meals, I will continue to be sure my family has veggies and yummy salads along with their meat dishes and offer them delicious fruit smoothies and make delectable raw desserts that they will gobble up without even realizing it's raw AND I will continue to educate in a loving, informative way ~ ya know, just share a paragraph here or there, a quote here and there. Show those before and after pictures. Tell the kids about the chemicals they are eating, show them gross pictures of sick people that is caused by the junk that is being consumed. And I'll just continue to love those meat eating carnivores and show them by my radiant health that raw is THE way to be healthy and fit. And if they choose not to be healthy and fit, well, it is their choice... NOT what I want but I don't get everything I want, unfortunately. Ya know that saying, "What you're doing is so loud that I can't hear what you are saying." ...
So, that is my ramble............. I think David Z. said it best in another post, he said something along the lines of supporting each other through our chosen journeys and not trying to force others onto the paths we have chosen................ That's what I'm gonna try or rather I am doing with my family. And when it comes down to it, we're all gonna die someday and the main thing is that we lived a life full of love and leave behind wonderful memories. For me that means not leaving behind memories of a wife and Mom that was always sick, out of shape, too tired to be a part, etc. Uh oh....I'm starting to ramble again.............


Bye for now. :D

[carolg]

Well said and confirmation here:
"You can't change anyone that doesn't want to be changed.
You can't help anyone that doesn't want to be helped."

My husband gets it about healthier eating but clueless about finances (ie preparing for your getting older years and then you get old and still at square one sadly). He still thinks hard work is the winner vs. preparing for financial blessings down the road. He's the "show me" first vs. having the belief it will happen.
carolg

[portiz]

My husband gets it about healthier eating but clueless about finances (ie preparing for your getting older years and then you get old and still at square one sadly). carolg

you know...i got the healthy stuff now if i could just work on my finances!!
:confused:
lol

[RawNurse]

I don't know if he is insecure that way, I surely haven't given him any indication that his spare intertube is a turn off. After all, I didn't marry him for his body - I married him because of his mind. He is a very laid back sort of person, and I was, well, tense. High strung. Always waiting for the other shoe to drop. He has calmed me down, changed the way I think. I knew this would happen when we first started dating. I was the one that would be the most to change.

But that doesn't change the fact that he's completely brainwashed. He is his father's son. This man will eat ANYTHING. A delicacy of his is grissle. Yes, I said grissle. Thank God my husband didn't adopt THAT bad habbit. But those are some demons I have to wrestle with every day.

Regardless, I still have hope for my family (albeit not extended family) and will continue to show them a good example.

Janet :p

[portiz]

This man will eat ANYTHING. A delicacy of his is grissle. Yes, I said grissle. Thank God my husband didn't adopt THAT bad habbit. But those are some demons I have to wrestle with every day.
Janet :p

You just brought back some memories of my EX-husband. I used to prepare taco meat ahead of time and he would "sample" the ground beef mixture right in front of me. He would also eat the gristle that I would set aside for his dog (notice I said his dog and not mine...).

uuugghhhh...diiiiisgusting.

[jaurequi]

Just as a bit of trivia, the Nephelum (angels took forms of men, then had offspring. the offspring were called Nephelum) were all raw vegan? Those big burley bullies that terrorized normal humans before the flood were all raw vegans. That in itself says that we can still be strong and healthy without meat/products doesn't it?

Janet

Good luck to you, Janet, but just one more thing, if you will?

Will you expound on the Nephelum. I'm not sure to what you are referring. If you'd prefer, you can email the information - jaurequi at hotmail dot com. I would be very grateful.


Best,

[Random Violin Guy]

Hullo there.

I don't really have any advice to give. I'm not a raw foodist (yet), but I am the only vegetarian (I'm vegan, actually) in a family of meat-eaters. My dad loves his KFC, and his brother- my uncle- is on the Atkins diet. I know it can be really tough to deal with dietary/lifestyle differences within the family. I'm sure you're already doing much to influence everybody simply by leading by example, and I wish you the best of luck!

[rawpriestess]

I think that he is feeling threatened by your new found zest for life, and he may very well think that you think you are better than he is, I find this often with insecure people when one starts to gain health and self esteme.

I would do what works for you, by eating what you like, and make it 100% raw, trust me, there is no way that you will make him support you, if he doesn't want to.

he will find fault with everything you do, he sounds very controlling and you certainly don't deserve that.

but it is up to you, as to how long you feel you need to endure this abuse.

but no matter what you do, eat right for you, and have raw fresh fruits and veggies available all the time.

[RawNurse]

Lissomllama, I was thinking about what you said. You made the point that all I can do is keep going with my rawness, influence the kids as best I can and not force the issue with my husband. I plan on asking him the question about foods fresh from the tree/vine versus processed products.
Here is my dilemma: I have been giving my kids more and more raw trying to feel them out as to what they will and won't eat (it is surprising what they will eat as long as I don't tell them what is in it) and I recently bought a book about transitioning kids into raw. What if the tables were turned to where my hubby were the only one who was eating differently? Would that be forcing his hand? Would that be playing dirty?
I hope to make a meal consisting of Angel-hair 'pasta', my version of potato salad (cauliflower substituted for potatoes), and salad greens. I plan not to cook any SAD food and see if he will take the challenge and see that it is good.
Sort of a 'Green Eggs and Ham' test.
What do you think?
It doesn't smack of underhandedness to me, but it does feel like this idea would be forcing his hand to try something 'out of the box'. After all, we do that with kids. "You can't get down from the table until you at least try a bite of broccoli". :eek:
I anticipate your viewpoints.
Janet