Young Coconut - Test

[Rmiller]

Hi,

I discovered a way to test if the sprays on young coconuts actually reach the water. Young coconuts sold in Asian stores in North America have been sprayed with a toxic substance and according to my tests this can actually reach the water. Just put a young coconut from an Asian market in a solution of water and colorant and you'll see the colorant will reach the water and change its color.

Neat test, isn't it :)

Anyway, after I did that test, I don't use the Asian coconut anymore.

[Sunshine9]

What is colorant?

[PATH301]

yip along with what Sunshine9 said:

What is colorant?
And how did you do the test - give us an easy step by step example so that we could try it ourselves. That would be cool, thanks.

[Regen]

A colorant is anything that has color. Food coloring or even ink would work in this case. Did anyone else pick flowers as a child and put then in a glass of inky water and watch the petals get streaked with blue? Or, was that just me..... :)

[mbf]

oh, that is scary!!! I am going to try it now!

Mara

[pdx kris]

Instead of living in fear...

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14616&highlight=coconut

[Rmiller]

I'm sorry to disagree with your stmt "instead of living in fear..." because it is known fact that Thai coconut are dipped in formeldahyde. I even contacted the supplier that the companies in my area buy the coconuts from and they verified that the coconuts are dipped and soaked in the formeldahyde.

To me, the experiment that I tried proved to me that any of the sprays will soak through into the coconut.

Anyway, I feel much better physically when I don't have coconut anyway.

I guess this is one for each of you to decide on.

[luckitri]

Lisa, I would like to know what technique you use to open your coconuts.

[mbf]

This was posted on a local (to me!) raw mailserve list. Its from Matt Amsden -- http://rawvolution.com/press.html -- owner/chef of a successful raw delivery service and recently-opened raw restaurant-deli in Santa Monica:

The Truth About Thai Coconuts and Formaldehyde.

Are you one of those whose initial excitement in discovering Thai Coconuts was quickly replaced with fear when you heard the rumor that the sweet treat is soaked in formaldehyde before reaching the United States?

I don’t know where it started nor can I remember when I first heard it but the rumor is certainly wide-spread.

I have had dozens of friends and clients ask me about it in panicked phone calls or during my raw food preparation classes or visits to our café.

Some fearful raw-fooders have completely removed Thai Coconuts from their diets in response to the rumor and there are even raw restaurants that have deleted them from their menus.

In short, we have all allowed this rumor to spread based completely on hearsay and without any definitive proof.

My wife Janabai and I love Thai Coconuts and weren’t willing to leave them out of our morning shakes or delete them from our café’s menu until we received definitive proof that they are in fact, treated with formaldehyde.

Waiting for someone else to provide such proof was getting us nowhere. We decided to find the truth, not only for ourselves but also for our customers and for those spreading fear by way of a baseless rumor.

We contacted Michelson Laboratories. Michelson is a fully accredited microbiology and chemical testing lab with over 70 highly trained specialists and technicians located in Commerce, California.

Michelson was confident that after proper testing of a sample they could tell us definitively whether or not Thai Coconuts were treated with formaldehyde.

We supplied Michelson with a sample from our regular stock of Thai Coconuts and waited patiently as the testing process began.

As the weeks went on, Janabai and I decided that whatever the result, we would disseminate the information as widely as possible. We would either discontinue our use of Thai Coconuts and warn others or dispel the myth and continue to promote Thai Coconuts.

On Thursday, May 11th we received the results from the lab.

There was absolutely no indication whatsoever that the Thai Coconut sample provided to Michelson Laboratories was ever in contact with formaldehyde.

We were excited. Not just because we could continue to enjoy Thai Coconuts but also because definitive proof had finally been obtained.

A copy of the lab findings will be available at Euphoria Loves RAWvolution at 2301 Main Street in Santa Monica.

It is my hope that in the future, our raw food communities will not fall prey to lies and made-up stories. These rumors divide rather than unite and spread fear rather than information.

Please forward this text to anyone you feel may benefit from reading it.

Peace,

Matt Amsden, RAWvolution

[RawFoodieMom]

THANKS Marabeth! :)

[pdx kris]

That letter from Matt is what my link contains. :)

[Rmiller]

Regarding the info from Matt Amsden's web-site, I really disagree with his theory.

It is known fact that Thai coconut are dipped in formeldahyde. I even contacted the supplier that the companies in my area buy the coconuts from and they verified that the coconuts are dipped and soaked in the formeldahyde. To me, the experiment I did still proved to me that any of the sprays will soak through into the coconut.


I have many questions regarding how the coconut were tested:

How many coconut did Matt actually get tested?
If more then one coconut was tested, then did they test different coconut's from different asian suppliers?
Were the coconut's actually bought from a U.S. supplier or from an Asian country?

As you can see, unless a wide sample size and variety were tested, the results would not be accurate at all.

[RowanC]

This thread feels like deja vu...

All I know is that I'm extremely chemically sensitive and these coconuts don't bother me, so I'm eating them until I get hard proof.

I'd like to know about your experiment.
I mean if you SOAKED the coconut.. how LONG did you soak it?
Do they SOAK the coconuts in formaldehyde? Or just DIP them.. which is a totally different thing for me anyway....

[RawFoodieMom]

Lisa, while I agree that just because Matt had his coconuts tested and they didn't contain formaldehyde, that it doesn't mean that all sources of Thai coconuts won't contain the chemical.

But... That also means that it wouldn't be right to imply that simply because it's been stated in the past (by what source, I don't know) that formaldehyde is used, that it's automatically all Thai coconuts sold in Asian stores that are contaminated.

I think the conclusion, as in most instances with raw food, research the source of where your coconuts are coming from according to where you're buying them if anyone is concerned about it.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Lisa, I'm wondering if there is a reason why you choose not to share the specifics of your experiment here?

I have read through this thread, and noted that several people have asked what exactly you did, what kind of colarant you used, etc. and not one of your responses explained it.

If you are willing to share your findings it seems reasonable to share the specifics of the experiment.

[RawFoodieMom]

Sharon, good point. Because I just remembered something, and did a search.

Nora from www.rawschool.com did an experiment a while back where she soaked a young coconut for TWO DAYS in a dye, and it didn't even come close to penetrating the inside of the coconut.

Her experiment is mentioned in THIS THREAD (http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14616&highlight=coconuts+soak) by someone else. There's no search function that I can see on her website, so I'm not sure if it's mentioned somewhere on her site or not... We could email her to confirm. ;)

Edited to add the link, duh! ;)

[RowanC]

Could you please tell us exactly how you proceeded for this test so we can duplicate it?

It seems there are several people here who would like to try.

I used bluing and soaked my coconut for 2 days and it only went about 1/4 inch into the husk.

Specifics?
Thanks!

[RawVee]

Regarding the info from Matt Amsden's web-site, I really disagree with his theory.

It is known fact that Thai coconut are dipped in formeldahyde. I even contacted the supplier that the companies in my area buy the coconuts from and they verified that the coconuts are dipped and soaked in the formeldahyde. To me, the experiment I did still proved to me that any of the sprays will soak through into the coconut.


I have many questions regarding how the coconut were tested:

How many coconut did Matt actually get tested?
If more then one coconut was tested, then did they test different coconut's from different asian suppliers?
Were the coconut's actually bought from a U.S. supplier or from an Asian country?

As you can see, unless a wide sample size and variety were tested, the results would not be accurate at all.

I don't know how many of you remember high school biology class, with the dissecting part. Whatever you were dissecting was soaked in FORMALDAHYDE. It has a very distinct odor, one that would not be absent after being applied to produce and then shipped. If young coconuts were in fact covered in formaldahyde, you'd be able to smell it, without a doubt. It is an acrid, harsh smell that is obviously chemical. And if something had soaked through the husk, which is unlikely, it would affect the taste of the meat and water. The beauty of the coconut is that it is a natural filtration system. If any minute bits of pesticide spray actually made it into the shell, they would go through the filtration and probably end up moot. But to your question about why the people you called told you they're soaked in formaldahyde? Probably to cover their respective butts. Federal laws governing imported exotic produce are really strict, and they had no idea if you were calling from an agency to check up or what. That's probably their standard answer. But believe me, if your coconuts had formaldahyde on them, you'd be flashing back to that poor frog on the table in high school. No worries! Raw foodists eat them all the time (I have one every morning) and they're all healthy and kickin! :)

[JGex]

I left a young coconut on the counter too long by accident a couple of weeks ago, it got mold on the husk. I would assume that if it were dipped in formaldehyde that this would not happen. I was not marked organic, either....

*shrug*

[Doe]

RawVee, what you say sounds reasonable. However, while reading your post I was reminded of McDonalds fries. For years I've been hearing that they contain formaldehyde. After watching Supersize Me and seeing the fries sit for several weeks never changing appearance in the least I have to believe that something is preserving them. It has been a long time ago, many years, but I do remember eating their fries and never suspected by smell or taste that they may have contained formaldehyde.

Also in doing research because of my multiple chemical sensitivity I found this info at http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/725.html (http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/725.html): building materials, carpet, paneling, draperies, paint, cosmetics, permanent press clothing, and some wet strength paper products all contain formaldehyde, which does off-gas. I doubt that those wearing make-up realize it contains formaldehyde.

A mortician in our area said most people are so full of formaldehyde today that when they die very little is needed to preserve them. He says they use only a fraction of the amount they did when he was a young man.

Just thinking,
Teri

[RawVee]

RawVee, what you say sounds reasonable. However, while reading your post I was reminded of McDonalds fries. For years I've been hearing that they contain formaldehyde. After watching Supersize Me and seeing the fries sit for several weeks never changing appearance in the least I have to believe that something is preserving them. It has been a long time ago, many years, but I do remember eating their fries and never suspected by smell or taste that they may have contained formaldehyde.

Also in doing research because of my multiple chemical sensitivity I found this info at http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/725.html (http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/725.html): building materials, carpet, paneling, draperies, paint, cosmetics, permanent press clothing, and some wet strength paper products all contain formaldehyde, which does off-gas. I doubt that those wearing make-up realize it contains formaldehyde.

A mortician in our area said most people are so full of formaldehyde today that when they die very little is needed to preserve them. He says they use only a fraction of the amount they did when he was a young man.

Just thinking,
Teri

Teri,

I agree, there is formaldahyde in a lot of stuff we use. Companies get away with it by adhering to the limitation laws. If McD's was using it in their fries, I'm sure Morgan Spurlock's movie inspired them to clean up their act. But it doesn't matter. The amount of preservatives in fast foods and all processed foods are going into our bodies when we eat them. Think about the shelf life of a Twinkie--yuck! However, in the case of young coconuts, dipping them in formaldahyde would leave a huge scent trace. Unlike other foods, they aren't then being cooked/fried/what have you. The scent of the chemical would still be very obvious.

That said, who wants McDonald's for dinner? LOL

[mbf]

Well, I think contacting Matt at Rawvolution would be a great idea. www.rawvolution.com. You can ask him all of those questions and think he would be more then happy to help out.

I eat 8-12 of these a week and want to know the truth here so I did my own test yesterday. I unwrapped a young thai coconut distributed from a company called Best Oriental Produce in Vernon California 323-923-1660, just spoke to a gentleman there who insisted they are not sprayed with any chemicals at all before being wrapped and boxed.
They were packed by K Fresh company in Thailand the e-mail address is kfresh7@hotmail.com or 661-832-9941 is the number on the box but when I called it, it was not the place, I sent an e-mail and will wait for a response. I poured/squirted an entire small bottle of classic food coloring, red, onto the top of a shaved coconut about 10:30 yesterday morning. just cracked it open and none of it seeped through, the inside was completely clean.

The suggested storage instructions for these coconuts are refrigeration floating in a bucket of water. If anything was getting through I would think they would eventually become water logged?? So storing them like this would not be sugggested.

I will let you know if I get an e-mail response.

Mara

[RowanC]

Is that although several of us have asked for specifics on this "experiment" none have yet been given.

To me that says, "Ignore it."

[luckitri]

Yes the technique used to open the coconut might make a difference as well.

[Rmiller]

Hi All,

The test I did was the following:

-Soaked the coconut for 1 hour in red food coloring

-Put the coconut in the fridge and didn't open it for 1 day (I figured from the time that the coconut is put in formaldehyde to the time we actually open it, it has lots of time to seep in further.

- Anyway... all I know is that when I opened it, the meat we red and the milk was red too (not very dark red but still red).

You're definitely right that not all sources of coconut are the same; suppliers treat their products differently. I guess it just pays to know where they are coming from, who grew them and what procedures they do to them.

Weird how other people's experients with the coloring came out differently them mine. Oh well, I guess non of us can be absolutely sure one way or the other unless we grew them ourselves or actually visited the place where they are grown and then say how they were packed and transported.

Lisa

[RowanC]

Well... for one thing young thai coconut is often a pink color. We've got threads about that. I used to live in Puerto Rico and the virgin islands where they have stands on the side of the roads and the coconuts were picked 2 hours ago, and when you open them, some have a pink color inside. Some are also purplish inside, and some are even dark grey... and they're still good. This has to do with genetics more than whether they are spoiling. Have you seen blue and red and pink corn?

I checked with the asian market produce manager where I shop and he says there is nothing wrong with those coconuts. Nor do they taste different to me... they taste just as fresh as when the meat is snowy white.

So I guess first of all, I'd like to see this experiment done with green colorant.
Secondly, I'm surprised because my blue colorant didn't go through.

Lastly, I guess everyone just has to do the test themselves or make the choice themselves.

Maybe your coconut was superabsorbant or something.. I don't know... :confused:

[merfie]

this thread is making me giggle...everyone has their own experiment, solution, etc. So i have several questions, comments...

1-if the coconut is soaked in formaldyhyde wouldn't it be hard for the colorant to pass through the membrane and into the coconut meat?

2-isn't fear the catalyst for disease?

also, you're giving the original writer a hard time about not replying, maybe they haven't had time to check back to the thread, or they are repeating their experiment...it's great that you all are so passionate about your health, and the truth...keep it up!!

in love and light :p

[RawFoodieMom]

Well... for one thing young thai coconut is often a pink color. We've got threads about that. I used to live in Puerto Rico and the virgin islands where they have stands on the side of the roads and the coconuts were picked 2 hours ago, and when you open them, some have a pink color inside. Some are also purplish inside, and some are even dark grey... and they're still good.

:eek: :eek:

Seriously? They don't stock coconuts in the stores here but I had a grocery store order them in for me once. At $21.00 (Cdn) for a case of 9 ($2.33 each) I wasn't impressed when several of them were pinkish/purplish inside. I've read previous threads on here in the last year that said that meant they were bad. I haven't ordered a case since because I tossed several thinking they were bad, but have been wanting to make some recipes calling for coconut. Now maybe I'll give it another shot when I have the money.

So what DO they look like inside when they're going bad?

[RawVee]

:eek: :eek:

Seriously? They don't stock coconuts in the stores here but I had a grocery store order them in for me once. At $21.00 (Cdn) for a case of 9 ($2.33 each) I wasn't impressed when several of them were pinkish/purplish inside. I've read previous threads on here in the last year that said that meant they were bad. I haven't ordered a case since because I tossed several thinking they were bad, but have been wanting to make some recipes calling for coconut. Now maybe I'll give it another shot when I have the money.

So what DO they look like inside when they're going bad?


The best way to guarantee the coconut is good on the inside is to make sure it's good on the outside. Look for dry husks, no mold anywhere, no splits. Check the bottom. Is it really spongey and soft? It's probably no good. Bottoms should be mostly firm, with a tiny bit of give being okay. Also, smell is a very good indicator. If your coconut's interior smells off, it's off. :)

[RowanC]

When they're bad, they'll smell rotten

[RawFoodieMom]

Thanks guys, I'm going to give them another try. ;)

[mbf]

I personally don't eat them when they are purple or pinkish inside. I give them to my dogs who beg for coconuts everyday! I know RowanC had said she does not taste or smell a difference but I definately taste it ? and its a nice opportunity to share with my pups!

Mara

[luckitri]

Yes I gagged on them when they were discolored. Even some of the white flesh is bad and makes me gag.

[Somtam]

I was planning on doing a coconut water fast starting tomorrow. Then I remembered hearing stuff about young coconut being treated with fungicide, etc. So I did a search on Thai coconut and formaldehyde just to see whether the whole thing is another urban legend.

I came across this page http://usna.usda.gov/hb66/055coconut.pdf
The article has the information from the US Department of Agriculture and Kasetsart University in Thailand. Now, Kasetsart University is one of the top universities in Thailand and known for forestry and agricultural sciences, so I consider it a very reliable source.

According to the article:
*The coconuts are dipped in sodium meta-bisulfite for 2-5 minutes to prevent browning.
*Sometimes, fungicide is added to the sodium meta-bisulfite solution. (So I guess sodium meta-bisulfite isn't the same as fungicide, huh? Sorry, folks. I never took chemistry...)

Notice, though, that the information about the dipping has been taken from an article by S.C. Tongdee, et al., dated back to 1991. That's 16 years ago. Perhaps this dipping thing is no longer practiced? Could this be why Matt Amsden's coconut test came back negative?

I agree with those who have mentioned that formaldehyde's smell is unmistakable and if it does seep through the husk and the shell, the coconut water must smell like it.

I guess when it comes to something like this, we need to use our own judgment. Me? I'm off to the market tomorrow. Gotta get me some coconuts. Coconut juice is the only kind of juice that gets me through a 7-day fast. If you don't see me post here in the next two weeks, that means I've died of fungicide poisoning. (That, or I've severed my fingers with a Chinese cleaver trying to cut open a coconut and bled to death ...)