some questions...

[reddragonfly]

Can someone tell me how quickly a person can lose weight on this diet? What are the benefits of this way of eating in comparison to having good meat in your diet. Also, I was reading about people who have been on this diet for a few years and their hair was falling out and had low energy, what is the benefit of not having good protien in your diet, like fish and chicken? if after some time these things happen?

[luckitri]

All very individual. No-one has codified it yet. Have you read the Need to Know More About Raw section? I think the weight loss depends on many factors including age, metabolism, exercise and what you choose to eat.

Think of the animals that you know to eat - Now ask yourself what do they eat? They build all that bone meat and muscle on vegetarian diets. What makes you think that you can't also do this?

[reddragonfly]

well, there are herbivors and carnivores .....i dont understand

[luckitri]

Cows, sheep, pigs, fish, chickens - all your SAD protein sources are vegetarian. But they build their bodies with vegetables. We can too. All of the components of protein is contained in fruits and vegetables. Some argue that we were designed to eat this way - not the SAD way. In the Garden of Eden they did not slaughter animals - they ate from the garden.

[reddragonfly]

iam sure it can be argued both ways bibically...but....your right those animals dont eat meat, i just love it esp sushi and i dont know how i can not have it at least from time to time...also there was a discussion about who has been raw for 5+ years and they needed to add some meat...where is some more evadence this way is better, going 100%

[luckitri]

I have not been able to find it either. Just try raw this way and get Alissa's book and DVD and get your results. I do know of vegetarians (cooked) who have reverted as well as raw people but I also would like to hear more from those who have been 100% raw a long time. You will lose weight and get healthier this way. I cannot guarantee it but very close. You have the right to change at any time. I think it must really hurt to practice and teach a certain way and then find out over the years that it no longer works for you. That is what has happened to some vegetarians. For people who crave their SAD dishes (like sushi) Alissa has created some fine recipes to help with the craving so that you feel satisfied. Also many recipes in the recipe section here. Try it - you'll like it!

[Rawkinlocs]

Reddragonfly, YOU have to decide what is better/best for YOU. If you want to eat raw or cooked meat, that is your perogative to do so and no one here is going to police what you decide to eat. But again, this is a raw vegan/vegetarian support forum and therefore, we will not advocate meat-eating and we are in all honesty not here to try and produce evidence of anything. I don't mean to sound facetious or to offend you, I'm just going on past discussions we've had here where people were trying to find "proof" that this diet is most optimal. The proof and evidence will be in the proverbial pudding...it will lie within YOU.

We're here to support you once you have made the choice and the decision based on material you've read, something someone said, or the way you feel after having tried it that this IS the way in which you would like to live. There is a great wealth of information out there in books, websites, etc. that can be researched and guess what? You are going to find a LOT of conflicting information and it's going to get confusing because you will see there are not only "experts" outside of the raw movement who will insist that a (consistently) raw diet is bad for you - all the while there will be those "experts" who insist that it is healthy; but even more confusing is that there are those who have varying "beliefs" even within the raw community. But what you have to do, what we ALL have to do is to just try it for a while and learn to listen to your own body.

Give it 30 days, THIS way...the raw vegan/vegetarian way...and if you love how you feel, then proceed with it - and try and learn to trust your own body and that it will signal to you what it needs.

Protein does not create protein, we need amino acids for our bodies to create protein and there is a great deal of (key word) ASSIMILABLE amino acids in green leafy veggies. Think of the cow who grazes on grass - that is where she gets her calcium, protein, etc. etc. from.

Every species has a biologically appropriate diet and it's when we stray from that diet that we run into issues health-wise. Sure some can say, "Well my grandpa lived to be 100 and he ate meat and drank milk from our cow Betsy every day!" but HOW did grandpa live? As he got older, what was his quality of life like? Was he complaining of aches and pains? Was he on medication? Was he using a cane or walker or wheelchair? Did people have to help him along? How did he die? - this is all just hypothetical, but I hear people say that all the time.

Also, think about TRUE carnivores - they have some things we do not - the speed to catch their prey (without bullets); the claws to rip that flesh apart (without knives); the teeth to tear into that raw flesh and the strong desire and mouth-watering when they smell blood. Then there is the aspect with the digestive tract size, the uric acid needed to break down that protein in the meat, etc.

How many of us actually salivate at the site of raw meat? How many of us enjoy the taste of meat, cooked or not, that is unseasoned or not mixed with something else?

I haven't read it myself yet (need to get a copy and soon!) but I keep hearing recommendations for reading the book "The China Study" to really get a feel for why meat is not appropriate for humans to eat.

But having said all that, again, if you choose to eat raw meat or meat, period, that is your choice and right to do so. There are many who eat raw foods including raw animal products and there are books, forums, websites, etc. dedicated to such practices.

We are here for you in support of the raw aspects of your diet that do not include meat - for support, recipes, etc. for the meat portion, you can "supplement" the support with other sources if you choose to.

So, again, try Alissa's 30-day challenge and at least that way you can say you tried it this way if you happen to choose to go a different route.

[ChiChi]

Cows, sheep, pigs, fish, chickens - all your SAD protein sources are vegetarian. But they build their bodies with vegetables. We can too. All of the components of protein is contained in fruits and vegetables. Some argue that we were designed to eat this way - not the SAD way. In the Garden of Eden they did not slaughter animals - they ate from the garden.

Fish eat other fish. I know because I have fish and the big fish eat the little feeder fish. :eek:

[DavidZaneMason]

Rawkinlocs is certainly correct. Make some tests for yourself. Determine what YOU think are the healthiest foods for you - and try incorporating more of those.....to a level where you are comfortable. Accept any of the symtoms or changes that come......as a result of you doing what you think is healthiest and best. Just my opinion.

-You probably won't hear about about the many folks (like myself) who have been all raw for many years......and are the healthiest folks we know. Those that are truly successful achieve what (to them) is completely NORMAL! :) Ha! ha! And as a result....often don't advertise. Take pointers from those who have walked the walk....and put it to the test.

-David Z. Mason

[Princess Elaine]

Great posting Rawkinlocs and David...I love my raw life and the best thing I'm learning is to not have to defend myself...to just live a normal raw life. I FEEL great....oh, yesterday I smelled a bar-b-que from somewhere (now that my senses are so fine tuned nothing goes past me) and yes, the seasonings smelled wonderful yet I had no desire to eat meat, almost making me cringe when I think what it actually is and what happens to it in my body...YIKES!!!

...this is a personal quest and for me the proof is in the pudding...the pudding being my energy, clear and peaceful thinking...my new glowing skin..this is the way for me.

I'm so grateful this forum is about eating raw and I learn new things every day.

Elaine

[elfinbaby]

Definitely read The China Study. I have been raw vegan since summer and dh was giving me a hard time about it. It seemed so extreme to him - even though he knows the basic main stream nutritional information and was a vegetarian for 5 years in his youth. He's been gaining over the past 10 years and, frankly, could be in the high risk category for a number of diseases. I heard about The China Study and gave it to him for Christmas. He's only read just over 100 pgs. and decided to go vegan asap! I was shocked. This is a man who has been surrounded by gourmet food and wine for years - it's part of his business, literally. And he still dropped the animal products! He's cooked vegan but the information in the book certainly got him off animal products.

The book is well researched and documented, very cerebral. It spoke to his intellect and he became concerned that if he continued eating animal products, he could develop a life threatening disease - cancer, diabetes, etc.

The book is not specifically geared toward a raw diet but the research is overwhelmingly in favor of a vegan diet.

April

[RowanC]

Although I do agree that this diet is great for ME and I am slowly coming over from eating vegan for health reasons to eating for ethical reasons, I still want to point out that there is a HUGE difference between the digestive system of a 100% herbivore like a cow and YOURS. The cow's stomach and system is made specifically to digest and transmute vegetation........so are its teeth made to grind ... so is the process of chewing cud, which is regurgitated food.

I'm doing this diet because it works so far, and because I feel healthier. But I'm still not convinced that it does not need some sort of supplementation. It is true that some long-time raw folks have developed heart and other problems from lack of B vitamins. Whether this was their own broken system or a glitch in this diet is unknown. For every one who has died from B-related problems, there is one who is thriving, like Storm. Although Storm eats some cooked food, doesn't he?

Ok.. well.. I'm rambling... but I guess my point is that the argument that a cow can make build its body by eating grass doesn't work for me, simply because its digestive system and teeth are totally different from ours. Bottom line. :confused:

[reddragonfly]

thank you for the replies, i know this is my choice i am just curious about it.

[Rawkinlocs]

Although I do agree that this diet is great for ME and I am slowly coming over from eating vegan for health reasons to eating for ethical reasons, I still want to point out that there is a HUGE difference between the digestive system of a 100% herbivore like a cow and YOURS. The cow's stomach and system is made specifically to digest and transmute vegetation........so are its teeth made to grind ... so is the process of chewing cud, which is regurgitated food.

I'm doing this diet because it works so far, and because I feel healthier. But I'm still not convinced that it does not need some sort of supplementation. It is true that some long-time raw folks have developed heart and other problems from lack of B vitamins. Whether this was their own broken system or a glitch in this diet is unknown. For every one who has died from B-related problems, there is one who is thriving, like Storm. Although Storm eats some cooked food, doesn't he?

Ok.. well.. I'm rambling... but I guess my point is that the argument that a cow can make build its body by eating grass doesn't work for me, simply because its digestive system and teeth are totally different from ours. Bottom line. :confused:


Rowan, Storm doesn't eat cooked food - he said he is tempted by it, but doesn't eat it.

We know that a cow has different teeth and digestive system for eating grass but didn't mean that WE should be eating grass, but rather if a cow can get all she needs from something as simple as grass (which is her biologically-appropriate diet) then we should be able to get all we need from OUR biolgically-appropriate diet. Now of course, that is debatable as to what that truly is and what we've "had" to adapt to and the soil depletion issue, etc. etc. but still, there are more healthy longterm raw vegans out there than just a few - we just don't know about them all because they're probably not on the internet or in books, etc - they are just everyday folks who are just living it somewhere out there. Perhaps we DO need to supplement and perhaps we don't - but that's not to say that we need to include animal products or cooked food and I think that is what the OP is more related to - the desire to continue to eat meat for "good" protein and the reasons NOT to do so. We're just pointing out that she can get protein from other sources besides animal products.

[Rawkinlocs]

thank you for the replies, i know this is my choice i am just curious about it.

Reddragon, I also wanted to add that the hair falling out, low energy issues are not common with everyone. Some of these things even happened to people much sooner than a few years but it doesn't have anything to do with them not eating meat (which is not "good" protein for humans) - I mean, think about all the people out there who eat meat as the main part of their diets who may be suffering from hair thinness or balding and low energy. There are plenty of them out there just as there are plenty who do not suffer those things.

I realize it can be scary to read the stories of those who faced issues later on but again, that is not the case with all long-term raw vegans/vegetarians. Try it out for a while and if later on you decide you'd like to be one of the raw fooders who eats raw meat, then you can do that. Just know that you don't "have" to do that - there are other ways to get what your body needs to thrive without going that route but if you choose to do so because you just want raw meat (or even cooked for that matter) on occasion, no one here is going to police what you eat. We are here to support the raw plant-based aspect of your diet - for the meat portion, that can be a part of your diet not even disclosed here. So it's still your choice regardless - you will read things in your lifetime to go for eating meat and you will read things that go against it but ultimately in the end, you still have to decide based on your own experiences, desires, etc.

[Nimmanu]

I am also afraid of going away from meat, so I know where you're coming from. I've made the decision to give this a try, however. if I don't feel and look better after my first 30 days, all I have lost is time. It is only as permanent a decision as you make it be.

I also feel that alot of it will be determined, sadly, by my finances. In the US, they sure make it costly for you to maintain a healthy diet, regardless of being raw or not raw... it's cheap to have a horrible diet.

But I've recently gone through a lot of medical issues surrounding a pregnancy, and one thing I realized... it could cost me a LOT MORE to get "real" diabetes than it will cost me to go raw. And I didn't enjoy at all injecting myself and stabbing myself all day long.

That is not going to become a lifestyle for me. No way, no how. And if it means giving up sugar (my only addiction), then so be it.

I personally am making the choice to try it for myself, because over the years, I've come to realize that, as I look around me, I know so few genuinely healthy people. The only genuinely healthy people I know don't eat mainstream diets. Yet of the healthy people I DO know, they don't all eat alike. So what works for me, may not work for Joe Blow or Nancy Normal.

But on the other hand, while we're all unique snowflakes, there are a few things that snowflakes have in common. If exposed to heat, they will all melt. If you go weewee on them, they will either melt or turn yellow. Crass, I know, but the fact is... for all their uniqueness, they share certain qualities.

And one thing that I've noticed about EVERY SINGLE DIET that I have personally researched... they ALL say to eat fresh veggies. Not a one says, "avoid fresh foods" and they all say, "eat lots of fresh veggies." So while it may not be universal that we all need to avoid meat, it IS universal that we all thrive on fresh raw foods.

For me, trying JUST fresh raw foods seems to be the next logical step in my personal evolution. And for me, it seems that my higher power agrees. So at the end of the day... that's the way it's going to be for me.

[RawVee]

Can someone tell me how quickly a person can lose weight on this diet? What are the benefits of this way of eating in comparison to having good meat in your diet. Also, I was reading about people who have been on this diet for a few years and their hair was falling out and had low energy, what is the benefit of not having good protien in your diet, like fish and chicken? if after some time these things happen?

RD:

The proteins found in meats are half gone by the time they're cooked. Our bodies take so much energy to digest them that by the time it's all said and done (ie, in our colon), it's down to little protein at all. The beauty of proteins from greens is that our bodies break them down easily without having to spend a lot of energy on them. That leaves our system with time and energy for other things like organ functions, cleaning house, and keeping our immune systems strong. Think of a race horse. They're strong, fast, and comprised largely of muscle. What do they eat? Grass.

:)

[reddragonfly]

thanx for your responses. i know this is my choice.....
i just wanted to see what other people thought.
thanx nimmanu for understanding, i have not recieved my book yet, so i have not started...but i would like to know how your progress goes, .....

[Revvell]

For every one who has died from B-related problems, there is one who is thriving, like Storm. Although Storm eats some cooked food, doesn't he?



No, he does not.

Revvell