"cold-smoked" raw???

[Elizabeth]

has anyone tried to make anything that is raw and smoked?? Like making a pate..and smoking it in a smoker at a temp. that maintains raw..but makes it taste like smoked salmon..lol...

I have toyed with the idea of getting a smoker or making one.. I grew up on a farm and my dad built a big smokehouse..but he smoked our pigs..lol.. I would make a little one....and no pigs..:p

I found some sun-dried tomatoes that are smoked... and was thinking of the possibilities in cold smoking... it would likely taste better than "liquid smoke."

take care....

[Rawkinlocs]

Get outta my head!!!

Yep, that very idea popped into my brain and I went wild one day looking online at cold smokers. I think it would be great - I mean, from what I saw the temps. stay at the same temps we use with a dehydrator...only thing is it's adding the smoky flavor but it never gets heated like with other smokers.

I'm still going to look into it - if you get one before I do, let me know how it works out!

[Revvell]

What does one use to create the "smoked" flavor? ... or what creates the smoke?

[Rawkinlocs]

What does one use to create the "smoked" flavor? ... or what creates the smoke?

Google it!

*ducks and runs out the room!*

:p

;)

:D

[Revvell]

I did and what I found was the stuff is carcinogenic. Thought maybe you had a different answer. *waits patiently until you come back into the room* :p


Google it!

*ducks and runs out the room!*

:p

;)

:D

[Elizabeth]

http://www.coldsmoker.com/

the smoke compartment and the food compartment are separate..so the food temps stay low...

rawkinlocs... I have been thinking about this for a while too..but was not sure if people would not like the idea because it sounded "cooked." lol... but I miss that smokey flavor..lol.. I used to eat so much bacon etc... and love the way campfires smell..and smokey foods taste....

I will let you know when I get one and try it.. I think I am going to do it.. :D

[Rawkinlocs]

I did and what I found was the stuff is carcinogenic. Thought maybe you had a different answer. *waits patiently until you come back into the room* :p

*tiptoes quietly back in* - Is it safe to come back?

No, but seriously... I didn't see the carcinogenic part. Hmmmm...guess there probably would be some potential problem with something such as this...I'll have to research it further!

[Elizabeth]

I had read that meat at high temps in bbquing produced carcinogens... but the cold smoking, I never read that about it.. please post links if available...

thanks...

[Elizabeth]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=9816780
I found this...

If anyone finds anything clearer...please feel free to post...

I would certainly not want to go raw only to add some other poison.....

thanks....

[trinity082482]

Here are instructions on how make your own cold smoker at home. It does not cook food.

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/coldsmoker.html

[Revvell]

What is creating the smoked "flavor"? There HAS to be smoke, yes??

[Tirza]

OH YESSSSS! That has also been on my mind. I love the smoke flavor and have thought of things like raw vegan smoked sausage and salami and cheeses. I am pretty sure that it can be done.

Yes, there is smoke. It is just very low heat. From looking over the links I see that most of them require charcoal briquets as the fuel so that is why the concern over carcinogens. I am wary of that also.

I looked on the net a little and found some bags that have some kind of hickory smoke residue or something in them which people use in the oven in order to impart the smoked flavor to the food. These would be like those oven bags I guess. I don't know if it would work at really low temps though. I would say it was worth a try if we could find out what is actually in there to give the flavor and smell.

I also found a really neat thing that looks like a buffet warmer with 2 of those little spirit-fuel things under it to produce the heat. Does anyone know if that fondue fuel stuff is dangerous? I would pretty much expect it to be bad. Especially since, unlike fondue in a pot, this would come into contact with the food!

Then I found what is likely the ideal! An electric coil heater!!!!! YES! That must be the solution. I am so glad this discussion spurred me to follow through on this. My husband's eyes sure lit up when I shared this with him. Looks like I will have to make room for another appliance! This would be SO easy to make as the directions show in the link that trinity082482 posted!

However, I still have a lingering concern about the smoke itself permeating the food. I don't want to be playing with things that could be carcinogenic! I started this way of life to eliminate or reduce those risks as far as I could as I don't want an early recurrance.

So many ideas, so little time!

[Apasaraw]

Smoking was found to be carcinogenic in a study awhile back, yes....BUT the scientist himself who did the study was saying on NPR that the media blew it out of proportion and that you'd have to eat pounds of burned food for it to have this affect...

I have a stovetop indoor smoker and I used to smoke fish and cheese in it...now you geniuses have got my mind reeeeling! If you heat it only to smoke the wood and take it off the stove (the food is on the rack above it) it would control the temp? Yes? No? I'm totally flipping out here! :eek: WOW!

P.S. Beside with all the fruits and Veggies we eat...carcinogens don't really stand a chance. I read today that 65% of all cancers can be prevented with more fresh foods!

[Ireland]

I love the smell of a campfire so much, I wish I could bottle it and use it as perfume. Honest I do. I suppose all I have to do is stand in front of a campfire for awhile...but that's too much trouble and I hate ashes in my hair.

I grew up around campfires in Canada's frozen North, it was a big part of my life. To me, the smell is history, ambiance, melancholy, earth and nostalgia all rolled into one.

Kinda reminds me of a true story - My ex husband and his brother had been smoking whitefish for a local deli that they had caught in a nearby lake. For some reason, he had to quickly run into the bank before he could go home and change clothes and before the bank closed. Anyhow, the teller commented on his smokey smell asking him what he was doing. He explained that he was smoking fish. She said "Oh, how do you do that?"

He said..."Well, you take out your big white fish papers, roll onea them puppies up, light it and smoke it."

[Bobbie]

It also occurred to me that food could be smoked and still be raw. But I would never eat it - smoke is bad for you. "....BUT the scientist himself who did the study was saying on NPR that the media blew it out of proportion and that you'd have to eat pounds of burned food for it to have this affect..." That's what they say about cooked food, and lots of people live to 100 in perfect health eating cooked food all their lives. I don't think smoked raw food would be any healthier than cooked food. There's an idea in the raw food community that if it's not heated high enough to destroy enzymes then it's healthy, but it isn't just the destruction of enzymes that makes cooking food bad for you. You could eat it with massive amounts of enzyme supplements and it would still be bad for you.

"Harmful substances contained in 1.8oz (50g) of smoked sausage may cause as much damage to our health as one pack of cigarettes or four days worth of breathing polluted city air."

I buy organic food where possible so I'd never actively add harmful substances to my food. I'd rather eat boiled potatoes than smoked raw cheese. Shop-bought Vegan fake-bacon might even be healthier than smoked raw bacon.

[Elizabeth]

I do not want to get involved in a debate... and am certainly going to research this more before I start smoking things...lol... although I have been eating small amounts of raw smoked sun-dried tomatoes..and they are amazing. What i did want to do is to make clear that what is being discussed is not raw smoked bacon or even raw smoked cheese..but raw, cold smoked vegan foods.

Meat and animal protein/fat (which is already toxin laden) and heat (as in BBQueing and trad. smoking) do not mix well...and the carcinogens produced in smoked meat would not necessarily be produced in raw vegan foods that were cold smoked. I have found no studies specific to cold smoked vegan foods..and to extrapolate data from analysis of smoked meats onto cold smoked vegan foods seems inappropriate to me.

If anyone knows of any studies...I am interested in data concerning the analysis of the smoke itself (as produced/used in cold-smoking) and any residue of the smoke which would/could remain in the cold smoked raw vegan foods...

thanks so much for the ideas/info...

[mongomango]

and to extrapolate data from analysis of smoked meats onto cold smoked vegan foods seems inappropriate to me.


I mean no offense here, and hope you take this in the spirit with which I am writing it.

It seems inappropriate to you because it is counter to that which you wish to do. From my viewpoint it's very easy to extrapolate the data to vegan raw foods because it is the smoke that is contributing the carcinogens, not the raw vegan food, and not the meat. We can dance around this and say oh well, it's the mixture of the smoke and the meat that causes the carcinogens, but I don't believe that for a minute. All one needs to do is stand over a fire and breathe smoke in to be convinced of it's detrimental affect to the body. Because it is being ingested with food does not mitigate those affects. I doubt that there would be studies regarding this because smoked raw vegan food is not something that has a significant basis with which to study.

[Elizabeth]

I mean no offense here, and hope you take this in the spirit with which I am writing it.

It seems inappropriate to you because it is counter to that which you wish to do. From my viewpoint it's very easy to extrapolate the data to vegan raw foods because it is the smoke that is contributing the carcinogens, not the raw vegan food, and not the meat. We can dance around this and say oh well, it's the mixture of the smoke and the meat that causes the carcinogens, but I don't believe that for a minute. All one needs to do is stand over a fire and breathe smoke in to be convinced of it's detrimental affect to the body. Because it is being ingested with food does not mitigate those affects. I doubt that there would be studies regarding this because smoked raw vegan food is not something that has a significant basis with which to study.
Hi Mongo mango....I am not sure what you intend..or what your spirit is..it is hard to read such things on the net..but, I try to give the benefit of the doubt and to not get too embroiled in this sort of thing. One thought concerning this..is that, in order to facilitate communication and sharing of ideas, I find it helpful if we, as individuals, each speak to our own motivations and do not presume to know, and speak to/of the minds and motivations of others. Your viewpoint, to which you are certainly entitled, is yours, and mine is mine...

I am intimately acquainted with my motivations..INFP..and all...lol...and again, I think it is inappropriate to extrapolate the data for the reasons I stated above and am interested in hearing data concerning the smoke..as I mentioned above. Yes, I actually like learning things and making things...but, after all of the changes I have made in my life over the years..am certainly not looking to sacrifice my health for smokey flavoring..lol... if indeed there is no healthful way (existing now..or yet to be invented by some creative Raw mind..) to attain it.....

so... if anyone has any data on the smoke itself..as produced in cold-smoking..please send it.. and if you like, feel free to send the links privately..so as to avoid being drawn into a debate...

thanks...

[tvillemom]

Walkin on Water!!! :D I can relate to what you said soo much. Even though I live (and grew up in) the south...NC....I grew up with my family building a fire to help keep warm in the winter. And now, I LOVE a campfire....I love to build the fire and watch it burn...to "nurse" it to a ROARING fire...and smell the wood burn. It's such a part of my childhood...those happy memories....
Wendi

[Elizabeth]

Yes.. tvillemom and Walkin On Water... campfires hold such a treasure of memories for me too...:)

I think that is part of what I like about the smokey foods..lol... some of my best memories are of campfire times..my dad having a big bonfire out back by the woods.... watching the gleaming sparks float into the night sky...the warmth ..the crackling, the sputtering and hissing of the wood as the sap is released..the scent..which somehow, for me, embodies all of the comforts.. the promises of home..security... each sitting around the fire...feeling so close..but in the silence and darkness...finding solitude.. space and peace...

I want to make a fire right now...lol..

blessings.....

[mongomango]

Hi Elizabeth,

I have a rather abrupt way of talking which is not the best way to communicate, especially on this medium as it is so easy to misconstrue things. My intent was simply to point out that we can want to do something and because it is something that we want, we sometimes don't see things in the same way as we perhaps would if we were neutral regarding the subject.

Regarding cold smoking, the only difference between it and regular smoking is that the food is situated away from the heat. It is still being subjected to the smoke. IMO, it is not necessary to see studies of specific foods subjected to smoking, it is only necessary to see what is in the smoke that the food will be subjected to...because your food will be coated with these substances to one degree or another.

For myself, I don't rely on studies in a situation like this; ie. I know that chlorine is bad for me, therefore washing my food in chlorinated water is bad for me as well. So from my perspective, if there are carcinogens in smoke, there will be those same carcinogens in my food if I subject it to smoking. End of story. The amount of carcinogens that someone will knowingly allow is a personal matter. That said, here is some information on woodsmoke. I think that charcoal is fairly equivalent although perhaps having a few more toxins that are present in coal.

Please don't see this as a debate, it is just information. Do with it as you will.


http://burningissues.org/pdfs/WoodSmokeChemical2003.pdf
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/pubs/92046.pdf
http://burningissues.org/simple-facts.htm

[Elizabeth]

I understand... :-) It is a difficult medium for connection sometime...

Thank you so much for the links...I do appreciate the information, and will look at them more closely later tonight....

take care..

Elizabeth