vitamin B12

[LadyAngora]

so, what's up with vitamin b12? i've heard that if you're vegan (or raw) that you're not getting it, and that you need it... someone care to enlighten me about this? i really really hate taking supplements... what foods have vb12?

[trinity082482]

I wasnt getting my B12 when I was eating cooked foods. I was getting needles from the doctors with B12. I haven't gone in a while but if I was to get surgery or have a baby I would have to follow up with those shots. :o

[trinity082482]

Oh and a SMALL amount is found in green beans, beets, carrots and peas.
I think raw eaters should take a supplement.

[girlsmiley]

Here is a thread discussing this ...

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24651&highlight=b-12

[Nix]

The bottle of Kombucha I have been taking part of each day lately states that it has b12 in it! Woohoo... :D I get it in the refrigerated section of my local health food store. Full of probiotics and live enzymes and such.
You can cultivate it on your own, I did back in the mid 90's and then fell out of it. I am looking for a "donor" to obtain a culture from currently. Although I don't miss the cultivation part!
Nix

[luckitri]

Under the "Need to Know More About Raw" section there are 3 threads about B12.

Being a water soluble vitamin - and knowing they get destroyed from cooking will tell you that getting it from cooked meat is questionable.

The meat that we supposedly get it from comes from animals that are herbivores - they only eat veggies.

2 short ways of looking at it.

[wyjoz]

here is interesting Iron & B12 statement Andreas Moritz @ www.ener-chi.com made;

I have been vegan for 32 years. Before that I was extremely anemic, white faced, and prone to fainting. I never was anemic again since i changed to a healthy, balanced vegan diet.

Many meat-eaters have an underlying hidden anemia, but since meat is such a strong stimulant that causes a powerful immune action, very few people notice it. When they stop eating meat, their anemia comes to the surface.

Iron levels are controlled by the liver. It takes organic iron from the food we eat, mostly green leafy vegetables, but aborption rates are kept relatively small to avoid infection (iron is the favorite food for infectious bacteria), which why women's blood iron drop signficantly before menstruating or at the end of pregnancy.

Meat eating makes the digestive system less effective in digesting complex foods such as vegetables with often dozens of ingredients in them. To digest meat doesn't require a samrt digestive system. When changing over to a vegetarian diet, it takes about 90 days before the digestive system has been retrained to make optimal use of fruits and vegetables, grains, nuts, seeds, etc. If you follow the guidelines for healthy eating and balanced mealtimes/bedtimes, according to body type (see my book Timeless Secrets of Health & Rejuvenation, formerly The Key to Health and Rejuvenation, www.ener-chi.com), your body's digestive system should be able to extract everything it needs from these foods. Liver cleanses, will, of course, help with that.

If you feel you need to take blood tests, make sure to avoid the days around the menstrual cycle.


B 12
To avoid B-12 deficiency, make sure the colon is kept clean, and is cleaned out especially after liver flushing. B-12 is produced in the colon by beneficial bacteria (our body itself doesn't make it). When the colon is clean, B vitamins are plenty.

Synthetic vitamins are harmful and should be avoided.
Hope it helps, Joz

[LadyAngora]

thanks for all the replies... i'm kinda newish around here and wasn't sure which area to post this question, but i'll follow up on the other threads now that i know!

you are all a wonderful font of knowledge! :)

[trinity082482]

What does Kombucha taste like?

[luckitri]

Yes this forum is great! You get to ask questions when you have them. . . no waiting. And wyjoz comes up with some great resources.

[Ariannah]

I long for the day when B12 is no longer mythically perpetuated as "a vegan issue".

Everyone panics when people give up the Big Macs and Slobbery bacon, waiting for the "deficiencies" to set in.

If I were truly concerned about b12 and thought it was about meat consumption or lack thereof, I'd not be on a raw vegan lifestyle, and head straight for KFC. If B12 (an important micronutrient) is only available through consumption of dead flesh or the products thereof, then is raw really a valid human diet?

Since I strongly believe it is (and my lack of about 8 medical complaints which used to FREAK me tell me so), I'll say it's a non-issue. I'd say my current deficiency is in antacids, tylenol, and antidepressants.... perhaps I need a shot? ;)

[wyjoz]

. And wyjoz comes up with some great resources.
Thanks: I was very much interested in medicine. Spent 14 yrs working in medical office. And then I started to see younger and younger people ALL around getting all sorts of diseases, cancers, etc etc. We had a 19 y/o female die within a few months of diagnosis from cancer. No one knew what to do or how to treat her.

One day I visited a land lady I have not seen for several years. I was shocked at how much younger, better she looked than I remembered her when I rented an apartment from her. She smiled, told me she has a very rare skin disease! It's all over her body and it's incurable. She went on 'natural' cure and changed her diet and she got cured. So I decided I'm going on a diet and prevent cancer and look younger as a bonus. Then
I visited a friend ;she had a Dr. Lorraine Day's Cancer video. I asked her if she had cancer and she said no. So we watched it. I decided then and there that I'm not dying of any disease! Old age, yes! I decided to start preventive life style and then by accident found out Roxannes promotion for her upcoming RAW book. She had a recipe for Lasagna. I panicked! RAw lasagna? then I went on a search for all time quest and I found www.keepwell.com. This writer was MD and gave up his practice because he never cured anyone with drugs. He started searching and treating people 'naturally' WOW! so I'm on a quest; to find everything there is to know !
I determined that I will not go through 'menapause'! I used to call in Rs's and give Estrogen shots when the nurse was not in and women would not wait till she came in; THEY WERE LOOSING IT. Now I know how not to and why so many millions of women suffer.
Now I know what cancer is! It's not a 'disease' ! I'v been saying for 10 years now(without knowing what I know now) Imagine That; that NO CURE EVER WILL BE FOUND because they are not addressing the symptoms, they'r looking for cure for a disease. I have many many intelligent medical I call them 'arguments' about this with all my MD friends. All of them got Green for Life, and a few of Alissas books, the rest of them were told to buy them. and several of my MD friends got Cancer is Not A Disease for X-mass!
SO ANYWAYS I'M HAVING FUN, (doing all this research) STAYING HEALTHY, and sharing what I find that's sensible for our so called 'diseased' mind set. Advising people to get healthy, stay healthy. BE WELL. Joz

[Nix]

What does Kombucha taste like?

Fizzy...and a bit like vinegar but not at all, slightly sour taste. I enjoy it, my favorite is the Gingerade one which has fresh squeezed ginger added before bottling and marketing. It reminds me EXACTLY of the Gingerbeer I used to drink that you can get at the health food store, but this one doesn't hurt my stomach while the soda did!
:)
Nix

[doit]

B12 is in wheat grass juice and nutritional yeast.

[codajess]

Fizzy...and a bit like vinegar but not at all, slightly sour taste. I enjoy it, my favorite is the Gingerade one which has fresh squeezed ginger added before bottling and marketing. It reminds me EXACTLY of the Gingerbeer I used to drink that you can get at the health food store, but this one doesn't hurt my stomach while the soda did!
:)
Nix


I like the gingerade one, too, then raspberry. They're by GT's. Well, I shouldn't say I "like" them. I should say I like the gingerade BETTER THAN the raspberry, and the raspberry better than the original. They're expensive-ish $3.79 for a 16 oz bottle, but I really can't drink them as much as I'd like to.
They are very much like vinegar, as far as smell & taste. I wish I liked them more.

[Bechtel]

Once again. B-12 from vegetarian sources are not the "real thing." IMHO and most of the sources i have been reading. The B-12 conducive for human body shall come from the non-vegetarian sources. Unfortunately that is true. Supplements (methylcobalemin - spelling?) is an alternative for vegans - us. There is a theory that friendly bacteria will synthesize B-12 in the intestines. If you like to risk – personal choice. I am taking supplement.

[FirstGarden]

And the B12 controversy rages on... but in a nice way on this website. Some folks really flame others for taking supplements, while others get flamed for not. Thank you everyone for being so civil!

My own personal conviction is this:

I cannot believe that God, if you will, created the Vegetable Kingdom deficiently. In man's early estate, mankind was given a raw diet.

One may take this literally or figuratively, but I find it absolutely fascinating that in the Genesis record, before the fall of mankind, we were absolutely vegan.

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat...

...Oh... and, by the way, there's a B-12 bush over in the southwest corner of the Garden. Be sure to pick one of those and take it daily."

Having said that, we live in a very abherrated society, full of smoggy skies, multi-level food chain contamination and new toxins all around us. There are so many factors that affect the quality of our food, and quality of life that it's not surprising if we come up short, not only in B12, but even other nutrients that may not have been discovered yet.

As such, I would not be too hard on any who feel the need for supplementation, although it is quite synthetic in the manufacturing. It is said that to get the nutrients we need from purely natural means would require pills the size of footballs. Ideally, even today, I would consider supplements as a last resort.

However, go moderate if you do. As I understand it, excessive doses of any one B vitamin to the exclusion of the other B vitamins within the B complex family is imbalanced and toxic. In other words, it may be wise to take the whole B complex (and not late in the day as it might keep you up)... or take B12 alone, but with moderation. And it is best assimulated along with food. :-)

[Gosia]

The claim that B12 comes from only animal sources has been disproved. Plant sources of B12 have been listed in legitimate, well-recognized sources.

According to an article which appeared in the February 2003 Harvard Mental Health Letter, B12 is found in bananas: http://hmiworld.org/hmi/issues/March_April_2003/HH_alzheimers.html

Another confirmed plant sources are green, blue, red, and black tea leaves:

J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 2004 Dec;50(6):438-40.
Occurrence of vitamin B12 in green, blue, red, and black tea leaves.

* Kittaka-Katsura H,
* Watanabe F,
* Nakano Y.

Department of Food and Nutrition, Kyoto Women's Untiversity, Kyoto 605-8501, Japan. kittaka@kyoto-wu.ac.jp

Vitamin B12 contents of green (0.046-0.263 and 0.125-0.535 microg/100 g dry weight), blue (0.068-0.081 and 0.525-0.528 microg/l00 g dry weight), red (0.061 and 0.663 microg/100 g dry weight), and black (0.104-0.859 and 0.305-1.20 microg/100 dry weight) tea leaves were obtained by intrinsic factor-chemiluminescence and microbiological methods, respectively. Although vitamin B12 was found in all tea leaves tested by both assay methods, the higher values by the microbiological method were not due to occurrence of both deoxyribosides and deoxynucleotides (known as an alkali-resistant factor), but may have been due to that of inactive corrinoid compounds for mammals in the tea leaves.


These are believed to be not the only existing plant sources of B12. Research takes time. In time, more and more plant sources of B12 will be confirmed in reputable sources, I'm sure. See also http://www.rawgosia.com/articles/sevenpoints.html and in particular http://www.roylretreat.com/articles/b12.html for further discussion.

Cheers,
Gosia

[luckitri]

Ditto First Garden. . . and all others posting on this topic. I have not come to the place where I think I need to supplement. I don't believe in supplements at this time. I am free to change my mind and I don't condemn others who believe differently unless in acting on those beliefs they needlessly harm others.