Does anyone feel like they developed an eating disorder from raw?

[cassidy]

One woman told me she had an eating disorder that began with raw food lifestyle - and - I guess I can say it didn't totally surprise me. All of the restricting and being in the mindset that there is only one way to eat. It is called orthorexia...being so overly consumed with health that it takes over your life.
I am not trying to offend anyone... as I am very into raw and find that HELPS with my ED (bulimia) but I can see how it hinders me in some ways as well.
Just curious!

[raw-siobhan]

I was reading up on EDs and that had crossed my mind as well, but for me at least there are so many redeeming qualities about eating raw vegan style that outweigh anything else that I may have fallen into. Also, something interesting that occured to me is that I believe there ARE a lot of people involved in this way of eating with EDs, but it is such a blessing to them/me to have found this. For me at least, part of it is finding something in my life that I can control and also use to define myself in part, at least. It is a journey for me and I am discovering things about myself through research mostly spurred on by this way of eating that has opened up a lot of understanding that I would not have had about me as a person had I not had the "chance" encounter (nothing is chance in my opinion) with this way of life. So...that's my novel for the day...Cassidy I agree with you and I am so thankful that we all have been blessed to have found a raw vegan way of eating to focus ourselves on...heck, we would be focussing on something else food related if it werent for this anyways...and this seems to be so healthy. :)

[Denise Nicole]

She can see things however she wants if it makes her feel better. But, not deciding how to eat and eating as much as you want is gluttony and leads to obesity and ultimately death. :D

[Sharon in Colorado]

One person coined that term and it has not been recognized by any medical journals.

It's not the food itself, but ones behavior that causes these things to happen. It can't be blamed on the food.

[paradise2]

I love the way you answered that raw-siobhan - if it is a problem at least it's a good problem. I spend a lot of time online reading about raw, but it's more than an obsession with a particular diet, it is also a chance to hang out with like-minded people that I can't get in the real world, I wouldn't spend all that time just researching a diet

[raw-siobhan]

Thanks, Paradise2 - You touched on another great thing here, which is associating with like-minded people. I love gaining more knowledge from everyone here and having the support that this particular website provides...so many honest, kind-hearted, truth-seeking people here...makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. :)

[eatyourbroccoli]

i think eating disorders are emotional and mental issues..i dont think the food you eat/dont eat can cause anything. if ones mentally unhealthy, or apt to be mentally unhealthy, one may eventually fall into it regardless of which dietary path they choose. i can see how many people with disordered eating habits in the beginning would choose raw as a way to further their desire to restrict/whatever, but i dont think raw would cause anything.

just my opinion. raw actually is helping to heal my own issues with food. i really think it just boils down to the choices you make, and the dedication you put into your holistic health - not just physical.

:)

[Rawkinlocs]

One woman told me she had and - I guess I can say it didn't totally surprise me. All of the restricting and being in the mindset that there is only one way to eat. It is called orthorexia...being so overly consumed with health that it takes over your life.
I am not trying to offend anyone... as I am very into raw and find that HELPS with my ED (bulimia) but I can see how it hinders me in some ways as well.
Just curious!


I agree with all of the above statements! Also, what people need to realize is that, ANYtime something is new to you, you will seemingly be obsessed and overly-involved with it! When I stopped chemically processing my hair and began to wear it naturally, I found online forums for support and I was on them ALL the time, I viewed websites and pictures of other women who had began this journey before me and just admired their hair and longed for the day when I would be as confident with wearing my hair "nappy" after almost a lifetime of wearing it the way most Black women in society wear theirs...STRAIGHTENED. I needed the support and being around like-minded people, as Paradise2 stated. But guess what? It's been going on 6 years now and I rarely visit those forums, those websites, etc. anymore. I peep in every now and then just to see if there's some interesting discussion or see if I can help out someone else who is new to it all...but for the most part, I don't even think about hair anymore because it has now become second-nature to me...I LOVE my hair and I'm very comfortable in it!

The same will and does hold true with the raw foods lifestyle...in the beginning it does seem like you're very consumed in it and it's all you think about and read about and you're on these forums and websites all the time because it's new and you're learning and growing and needing support in this world where the majority of people are the exact opposite in terms of dietary lifestyle. BUT...it won't always be this way. Eventually it's going to become so natural to you...second nature and you won't even think twice about it.

The main reason I visit RFT daily is because I'm a moderator...but also because I like being around like-minded people and you can't/don't always find them in the real world. But all the question-asking and seeking answers and concerns are gone now for me because I'm very comfortable in being raw. It's a part of me now and while I do have my moments of temptations and slips...I KNOW in my heart what's right and always return to it...but I no longer "obsess" over it.

I'm sure this is true for many.

[Conscious Midwife]

One woman told me she had and - I guess I can say it didn't totally surprise me. All of the restricting and being in the mindset that there is only one way to eat. It is called orthorexia...being so overly consumed with health that it takes over your life.
I am not trying to offend anyone... as I am very into raw and find that HELPS with my ED (bulimia) but I can see how it hinders me in some ways as well.
Just curious!


Seems as if we are not consumed with our health illness will "take over our life". I think the medical term for it is called .....



IGNORANCE ;)

[sport]

It is called orthorexia...being so overly consumed with health that it takes over your life.
!
I seem to recall that we had a discussion on this topic before it was deemed that it was a quack term.
I have searched and can not come up with the thread but think that it was based on a BBC article.
I have never in my life had anything that even came remotely close to an eating dissorder.
I eat raw and intend to continue to do so.

[**jessireebob**]

i think eating disorders are emotional and mental issues..i dont think the food you eat/dont eat can cause anything.

Well actually, nutirionists and homeopaths are becoming more and more aware of that fact that people with food sensitivities and allergies often present with no symptom other than the inability to control one's consumption of the problematic food. The sensitivity leads to bingeing. Many people experience this with dairy products, and in fact what starts as a dairy binge often leads to a sugar binge (so perhaps the real problem is sugar, adn milk sugar kicks it off?)

If you think about this you can see that it could have really wide-reaching effects. Lets say you have a corn allergy and the way it manifests is in craving and uncontrollable urges to eat corn. This means not just obvious corn products, but also anything with corn syrup, corn starch, corn flower... A person could eat one of those salted cornstarch pumpkin seeds, without realising they have problems with corn, and be off on a binge. A person could eat a wheat brownie made with corn syrup and be off on a binge. Heck, a person could even lick an envelope that has corn oil in the adhesive and be off on a binge.

I think that food allergies have a lot to do with EDs. I also think that EDs exist outside of that paradigm, and can have solely emotional components as well. But it seems that restricting your foods in the ways in which raw reccommends can actually function similar to a traditional elimination allergy diet, where one cuts out most food and then tests the effect of each on his/her own constitution... I can also see how raw would impose so many limitations it would kick of the ED tendencies. Hopwefully folks who tend toward obsessive thought/restriction will seek complementary help in the form of counseling to help them tease apart the pieces that are emotional from those that are physiological...

I personally think that multi-faceted nature of the origins of EDs make them particularly difficult to treat/recover from. For me, raw seems to be helping. But I can see how for some it may hinder.

[Apasaraw]

I am not downplaying the emotional aspect of ED s at all. They are real. I have friends who are challenged by anorexia and bulimia and have been for years. I just wanted to share that there was a study done recently done proving that in some people bulimia is initally caused by an imbalance in sex hormones. This is why it affects women more. Here are the findings to peruse if you are interested. It would be nice if someday it were a treatable imbalance that could be reset somehow...like thyroid or somesuch. I think being more whole, live and raw in eating could balance the body and in turn help people with EDs. Just a thought...a hope...the study tries to help realize it is a physical craving that makes one binge...and that it is not a mental illness as some label it.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=60346
linky

article:


Bulimia Linked To Sex Hormone Imbalance
08 Jan 2007

A Swedish study has concluded that as many as 30 per cent of women with the binge-eating disorder bulimia nervosa could be suffering from an imbalance of sex hormones.

The PhD thesis is the work of Dr. Sabine Naessén of the Department of Woman and Child Health at the Karolinska Institutet, Sweden's largest medical training and research centre.

Dr. Naessén suggests that some women with the compulsive over-eating disorder may have too much testosterone, the male sex hormone. "We have shown that one third of female bulimics have metabolic disorders that may explain the occurrence of the eating disorder. These disorders may in certain cases express the hormonal constitution of the patient, rather than any mental illness", she says.

The study shows that bulimia has hormonal and genetic components, as well as the psychological element. The hormone imbalance is due to an over-abundance of testosterone and an insufficiency of the female sex hormone, oestrogen, an active ingredient in oral contraceptives.

It is thought that too much testosterone causes a person to feel very hungry and crave high-calorie foods rich in sugar and fat.

21 bulimic women were treated with oestrogen-dominated oral contraceptives. Within 3 months half of them reported feeling less hungry, and having decreased craving for fatty and sugary foods. And 3 of the women were said to be completely cured with this treatment.

Dr. Naessén suggests "this is a very strong effect. Hormone treatment may very well be an alternative to cognitive behavioural treatment."

Bulimia is usually defined as a psychological disorder normally treated with psychotherapy, with cognitive behavioural therapy being the one most commonly recommended.

According to the diagnostician's "bible", the DSM-IV-TR® Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association, for patients to be diagnosed with bulimia (as separate from anorexia nervosa), they must be showing the following 4 symptoms:
- Binge-eating "recurrently", i.e. eating far more than most people normally do, together with a feeling that they can't stop or control their eating.
- Repeatedly and inappropriately compensating for the over-eating, such as over-medicating with laxatives, fasting, exercising to exhaustion, or making themselves vomit.
- Been doing these two things (binge-eating and inappropriately compensating) repeatedly at least twice a week for the last 3 months.
- Overly judging themselves in terms of the weight and shape of their bodies.

Unfortunately bulimia is very hard to spot, because unlike other eating disorders, such as anorexia, the bulimic will appear to be of normal height and weight, and because of the shame and guilt associated with the condition, have learned how to mask their symptoms. The long term effect is one of malnutrition, and it may well be a symptom related to this that first brings the bulimic to the attention of the doctor.

[eatyourbroccoli]

Well actually, nutirionists and homeopaths are becoming more and more aware of that fact that people with food sensitivities and allergies often present with no symptom other than the inability to control one's consumption of the problematic food. hey jessireebob!

i guess i sort of have a slightly different perspective on that research, only because i experienced it differently. for me, my inability to control consumption (i view it as a food addiction) developed after a traumatic event..this food addiction coupled with chronic anxiety resulted in the depletion of my hormone levels..my depleted hormone levels caused me to develop severe intolerances to dairy/wheat, onions/garlic, citrus, seeds..allergies to nuts/sugar..and allergies even to my own progesterone and testosterone. i know this because i have now been on bioidentical hormone replacement therapy for 6 weeks, and now that my hormone levels are raising back to normal range my ability to eat the foods i previously could not is actually returning..with absolutely no side effects.

since none of that would have developed if my hormone levels were normal, and since my hormone levels were only abnormal because of mental and emotional instability, i guess my viewpoint places the blame for my previous ED on my mental/emotional health because it was that which spurred the chain of events that resulted in an ultimate decline in my physical health.

i sometimes think that stress and mental health are far too overlooked as a main culprit for a wide array of diseases/conditions/disorders..the effect they have on the body - specifically the endocrine system which, in turn, controls a decent majority of your body cycles/functions - is astounding.

but this conclusion is just drawn from my own path..so who knows. if you have any links to info regarding your position id be very interested. im a health nerd and really into reading everything i can about it..specifically things having to do with everything ive experienced these past few years.


ETA:

Bulimia Linked To Sex Hormone Imbalance
08 Jan 2007 this is a very cool article. i guess i mainly think its cool bc im 20 years old with post-menopausal hormone levels and a history of exercise bulimia :p . i guess it may ultimately be a "what came first" question..what came first, the hormonal imbalance or the ED? because nutritional deficiencies from ED can cause hormonal imbalance, but depression/anxiety can cause both ED AND hormonal imbalance. so did the anxiety cause the ED cause the hormonal imbalance...or did the hormonal imbalance cause the ED cause the anxiety...or did the anxiety cause the hormonal imbalance cause the ED? lol...maybe its a case-by-case situation?

either way though..i am currently being treated with bioidentical hormones to correct this imbalance..and mentally/emotionally i have NEVER been this at peace with everything. my ED issues are slowly dissipating into the past..gosh i just want to get out there and tell everyone about how this saved my life and hope that MAYBE it will be able to help save someone elses! maybe when im completely done with everything, ill write a book :D

:)

[cassidy]

I went back and edited my post - obviously I didn't proof read before submiting.
But - apparently you all got the point!
My struggle is, and my ED support team struggle is, that I will fall into anorexic tendencies. Restricting and labeling certain foods... etc. They want me to believe that all foods are acceptable. That is something I struggle with.
I ... however firmly believe that about 99% of food you can by in the grocery store is BAD. I just think it is a fact... not a belief.
However - I do see how if you begin eating Raw food to loose weight - and only to loose weight then that is an invitation to an eating disorder... just as a fad diet is.
I think if you are eating raw for health reasons or to cure ailments (such as an eating disorder) you will find success - as I have read so many of you have!
As for the term orthorexia - I would be curious to know who coined it. I sure do hear that word a lot! But I would much rather be obsessed with health than binging and purging. That is where I am right now and I feel better.... so that should count for something no?

I'll go back and read the hormone imbalance article and reply a bit later.

[Bobbie]

The raw diet did lead to me developing an eating disorder....but ONLY when I went back to cooked food. The first time I gave up cooked food I had no problem doing so. It wasn't hard, I didn't have cravings, didn't miss it, didn't want it. However everyone around me disapproved and in the end I felt so guilty I ate cooked food again and WHOOSH! Cravings galore, overwhelming powerful cravings in every cell of my body, as well as making me feel very ill. I'd never known anything like it. I didn't know there was such a thing as physical cravings you feel in your body. From then on I couldn't stop eating cooked food. And it made me ill and made me put on weight so I kept trying to stop but I couldn't so I ended up with an eating disorder. I didn't make myself throw up (I tried once and I couldn't do it!) but I used to over-exercise to get rid of the calories, and fast to cleanse myself. By that diagnostic test above, I had bullimia. Eventually I read an article by Victoria Boutenko about cooked food being an addiction and having the same affect on the body as drugs. She said if you stick to 100% raw then after a few months you'll stop craving cooked, but if you eat one bite, that will make you crave it. So I managed to go 100% raw and stick to it, which was really hard for the first few months but since then I've not wanted cooked food. And I no longer have issues with food, I'm not obssessive, and I don't worry about calories. So raw food sort of cured my eating disorder....even though if I'd never been raw, I wouldn't have had the disorder to begin with. (cooked food had no affect on me before I stopped eating it, and I was certainly not bullimic)

People who have orthorexia can use raw food as their diet of choice but they can also use any of the other many many "healthy" diets that are out there. I think if a raw foodist has orthorexia then its much more likely that orthorexia made them raw, rather than raw made them orthorexic.

[cassidy]

Thanks for your open minded honesty Bobbie - I am glad you have found something that works!
They say (and I believe) that eating disorders are about YOU not food. Do you find that with raw food you can face the issues your ed presented or do just find that it is GONE?!
I suppose that even though Raw did lead you to an eating disorder - it allowed you to learn about your body and your mind... and the power of health!

[**jessireebob**]

Hey Eatyourbroccoli, thanks for sharing your experience. Let me start by saying that I didn't mean for my reply to be contrary. I think that you're correct. EDs are often resultant of trauma and other emotional issues. I even wrote a term paper once on the relationship between childhood trauma and adult-onset binge eating disorder (you know what they say about psychologists going into the field to understand/fix themselves, after all!!) I too have a history of trauma related disordered eating. I also, though, see patterns in my responses to certain foods that I can trace back to my childhood, and I often wonder if I'd been more aware of food sensitivies and allergies, I might not have developed the ED I did. Or I might have been able to make changes and headway long before I could. I have spent a lifetime having people tell me that trauma is the reason for me ED, and I'm now finding that very specific dietary changes are changing the EDs hold on me...

I don't think it's necessarily a chicken/egg scenario. I truly believe that EDs are multifactorial in origin. I don't have any weblinks as resources, but let me look through my notebooks and see if I can find a few articles/papers. I'll post them here as soon as I do!

As a side note, I think it's very cool that you're being treated with bio-identical hormone. There's a history of "women's" health issues being ignored, and in my own experience (I have poly-cystic ovary syndrome) there's a circular logic to treatment... PCOS causes hormone probs which cause insulin resistance which causes overweight , yet every doc I ever had told me I could FIX the PCOS by losing weight! Kookoo! :eek: Glad you've found a way to effect change, and it sounds like the change is really marked!

Apasaraw, what an interesting article. I'm going to look more into it!

Cassidy, I think that feeling better counts for a whole lot! It sounds like you are willing to entertain the idea that this way of eating could help to support your ED/anorexia tendencies, but you're also looking to see if there's a way to eat raw AND healthily. I wish you the best in that struggle! I know it's not an easy one!

[eatyourbroccoli]

jessireebob..

PCOS has been successfully treated with bioidentical hormones! :)

if you ever want to consider it and have any questions, let me know! id be glad to help.

[D'vorah]

As for the term orthorexia - I would be curious to know who coined it. I sure do hear that word a lot!

THe first time I heard the term was in a post on VegSource on Dr. McDougall's message board (his board is no longer on that domain, FYI.)

When I read the article referenced, I thought it was a ton of hogwash. Recently in our local newspaper there were a few fitness and weight loss type of articles, what with the New Year, and one article stated as a matter of fact that any diet that eliminated any food groups was suspect and not a healthy approach. I was stunned in this day and age when people are thriving on veganism and vegetarianism.

It is possible to be overly concerned with diet, exercise and health, but most people posting on this board would be considered fringe by most of the people I know, just by virtue of the fact that what we embrace here is so far from the "norm" in this country, so, I still find the term to be hogwash. ;)

I just don't think that concern about health creates an ED, rather, I would be of the opinion that there were already some underlying issues present before change of diet that got triggered.

For me, what I've found helpful is Laurel Mellin's The Pathway. In her book, she talks about "external solutions" for those of us who lack natural internal balance, and she proposes a very structured attack to bring internal balance in to play so that we cease to need those external solutions, which might be food, or it might be spending, over-working, over-thinking, drinking, smoking, etc, etc, etc. ANY thing can become an external solution that we rely too heavily on. So, again, I would say that the propensity for falling into an external solution is already present before any change in diet invites an ED type of reaction.

If anyone wants more about The Pathway, ask. I tend to get fired up about it.

Here's a site I found that claims to be the originator of the term:


http://www.orthorexia.com/index.php?page=katef

Deborah

[D'vorah]

PS: Dr. Mellin does not recommend a raw diet, nor even a vegan diet, so you do have to work around her dietary recommendations, but, the exercises developed to help create internal sources of strength and balance are brilliant.

D

[luckitri]

Excellent thread. I came to raw due to physical suffering and if anyone tries to label me neurotic, hypochondriac or anything negative like that I will be furious! However, I am wondering about food addictions to types of food and eating styles due to a recent post where I acknowledged that I often went without food or without enough food as a child - so my prolonged transition is partly health problems - but I am needing to look further at emotional eating now. . . a concept that I never before considered for myself.

OK let me be very clear. I may have an ED but I would never say I got it from raw. Trying to be 100% raw has helped me to realize it. I had it before raw.

[Apasaraw]

eatyourbroccoli...I hope you keep a journal of some kind. I would read your book! :)

You are so right about the endocrine system. I had endocrine therapy and adrenal therapy to reset them and it did wonders. Like a reboot.

Good luck to you on your journey! The bio identical hormone therapy sounds like it's really helping...and getting out here to Cali with us fruity nuts will really help. haha!

I'm glad the article was helpful...I almost didn't post it because I didn't want to offend anyone but I figured if one person found it interesting it'd be worth it.

Science can be good...

[Apasaraw]

D"vorah...Pathway away...I wanna know...what is it?

Also thanks for the link to Orthorexia...I now realize a co-worker I have that everyone notes has anorexic tendancies (she's skeletal and fakes eating with lettuce) is actually suffering from Orthorexia. She and I have spoken about her weight issues and now I realize they stem from a righteous mindset and a "I'm better than you because I eat this way" and she hyper critiques everyone's eating habits aaaaall day...even mine! :confused:

Very eye opening...I hope she gets help soon. She knows she has a problem...

[Vegan Princess]

Cassidy,

Eating raw has helped IMMENSELY with my bulimia. I was already in therapy and on antidepressants (bulimia is often linking to seratonin imbalances as well as behavior patterns) before I became vegan and raw. Switching to a vegan diet helped me a lot, but I still binged on vegan junk every few weeks. I haven't had any disordered thinking nor have I binged or purged once since becoming raw. The thought hasn't even crossed my mind! In fact at my most recent dr visit last week we lowered me medicine dose and I am going to try and get off of the medicine.

Raw helps so much b/c I never feel gross or heavy after eating. I eat whatever I want and my feel like I am nourishing my body. My body tells me now when it has had enough. And oddly enough, I am losing the weight that would never come off before, no matter how much I threw up or restricted calories. I think if you allow yourself to eat and not restrict, it could help you a lot as well. Good luck!

[berrymarymac]

I have been thinking about this a lot. My roommate actually was worried about me because for a meal, I would eat an avocado and some tomatoes. I think it's just how people perceive food and what should and should not be consumed, by their own standards. I bet the woman would be the same if you were eating a large meal at McDonalds, saying it was unhealthy.

In 8th grade I stopped eating a lot, to the point that I would go a day without food as I went through a nervous breakdown and depression. I sometimes suffer from spells like this, but my medication also limits my cravings. Yet sometimes, I just don't feel like eating for a day, but I force myself to so my blood sugar doesn't drop low.

Anyways, everyone response to this question was great and even though I didn't start the thread...it's helped me quite a bit.

[cassidy]

Interesting article on hormones! I don't take birth control... I wonder if it would have an affect on me! I don't know why... but i doubt it :rolleyes: .

[D'vorah]

D"vorah...Pathway away...I wanna know...what is it?


http://www.thepathway.org/

Dr. Mellin wrote The Pathway promising people life skills that lead to balance, integration, spirituality, sanctuary, vibrancy and intimacy. Her premise is that when we lack these conditions inside ourselves, an “internal solution” is lacking and we turn to “external solutions.”

There are so many other things we turn to in order to make life work (only they don't, really; they are like ball and chain): Over-eating, over-spending, over-thinking, drinking, drugs, addictive relationships where we rescue or seek to be rescued, merge or distance . . .

The book is based on research done as far back as the 1940's, she's just the first person to package the ideas in a way that the general population can absorb them.

Dr. Mellin couches it all in very scientific terms. She states that those of us who don't have such skills actually have neural wiring in the brain that favors imbalance, and that as we do the work, we are weakening those neural pathways and creating and strengthening new neural pathways that favor balance.

The heart of the work is what Laurel calls "cycles." You learn enter in to an issue, to access deeply ALL of your emotions about that issue or event, feel the feelings and watch them naturally fade. The thinking brain is the enemy of this work; we are encouraged to not over-think, to feel the feelings in all of their rawness without judging, without analysis, without leaving them. The feelings that we are seeking to access and fully feel are the “essential pain” feelings, such as angry, sad, afraid and guilty. This is not guilty as in shame, but rather, “in a perfect world, I wish that I had. . .”

Once you've moved through that, what she calls the “flow of feelings,” you move on to what she calls the limits cycle. Really digging down into your expectations, which are often unrealistic, and bracketing those raw feelings with clear sets of reasonable expectations, embracing or honoring whatever the essential pain in life is, and then reaping the earned rewards of all that you have found in your "cycle." Through this part of the work new, powerful and positive statements are established, and we return to the flow of feelings to look for and fully feel the earned reward feelings, ie, grateful, happy, secure, proud, hope, love. In the beginning, these can be difficult to access.

And, as we repeat these cycles repeatedly when we find ourselves thrown by circumstances or memories, we build a strong neural foundation.

For me, the limits cycle is the heart of the work, I came into the work with lots of feelings, not always clear, not often balanced, and no clear limits cycle at all. At the start of each kit is a self-test to see what your threshold of need for the skills is, and what your skill level actually is. IÂ’ve been able to track some measurable changes in my internal balance system.

Each cycle that I do takes a short time, maybe minutes, sometimes more, but rarely a burdensome amount of time. A few have taken longer, some have been repeated. Almost always I find something I didn't know about. "I expected THAT? No wonder I was struggling." or "Wow, look what I get as a reward for this work!" IÂ’m feeling the burden of old unprocessed emotions lighten as I work.

You can do the book only but there is also kit-work available. I have purchased and been working through kits, as I knew I needed more support. The kits are a little spendy, but one kit can take you through weeks of work. I spent 12 weeks on kit one, don't remember how many weeks on kit two, and kit three, well, I'm really working deeply through many old childhood issues, so I'm probably well over thirty weeks invested in working this kit. If you multiplied those weeks by 100 bucks or more per week for private therapy, you'll find the kits are a very cheap bargain by comparison. And, you get to be your own therapist; you learn to inherently trust your own good heart and inner wisdom, even if you've heard from other people your whole life long that you don't have those things!

When you get the kits, you get website membership. That gets you access to more professional support. Yes, it costs, but again, compared to traditional therapies, it's still a bargain. You can join groups, either locally, or, if none are available, as is the case for me, telephonically. You can apply for private coaching sessions as well, and have access to the web buddy list to find others doing the work, so you can find a buddy to listen to you do the work, and you can listen to them, thus learning from their work and gaining the benefit of the positive feedback that they offer you in your work.

There are a couple of areas I donÂ’t embrace and a couple of concepts with which I struggle, but my overall response is a very positive one. Her dietary guidelines are not at all what I want to embrace for my life. She is appealing to a Standard American Diet audience in her work, so, for the vast majority of people coming to the work, her dietary standards are a big improvement. And as for me, if I had the skills that she writes about, and the increasing balance that she promises (which I am starting to see come to fruit for me), I wouldnÂ’t be struggling to live up to my own standards. So, dietary guidelines aside, IÂ’m embracing this work as the best thing to come along for me. IÂ’ve tried many other things that failed, this is working. Also, as I said, we donÂ’t talk about G-d in the program, but for me, my cycles are often more prayers than exercises. Just because we donÂ’t talk about Him doesnÂ’t mean He isnÂ’t inherently present in the work.

Hope that helps.

Deborah

[dreamrawalwz]

I developed anorexia and actually ate mostly raw at first b/c of lower calories. Then I went to no raw it seems (for even lower calories). During recovery I developed all my food intolerances. The intolerances trigger intense cravings. I developed bulimia. Now, whenever I stray off raw I relapse immediately and I fall hard. Besides the builimic behaviors I think a lot about restricting and that I'll do raw to aid in the anorexic behaviors. Yes, it gets complicated. Once I get back to raw the first few days i restrict severly with that mindset, but then I detox and begin to heal and I eat for health and don't count calories or anything. Just thinking about what I wrote...the cooked food really must afect your brain chemistry an thought patterns. My ED began as an emotional reason. It was about weight, but deep down it really wasn't and still isn't. For most it's a way to distract themself from reality of what is really going on...to numb themselves. It's not about the food as many believe.

As for coworkers, they just don't know because they havn't experienced it. I used to get so angry when people make ignorant/sterotypical comments, but now I realize it's just that...they don't know what it's like. I would just reassure the person, but don't sound deffensive or it'll sound like you're trying to hide something.

Not sure if this really pertained to the original post haha, oh well.

[luckitri]

Thanks for posting the site. I think that so many wonderful books have been recommended here and I have been unable to get ANY of them. I am going to make a list - including with all the websites and leave it right here by the computer so when dh wants to do something nice and is able - he will know what to do. The last couple of days I have been wanting to do something - therapy disgusts me - because the therapists are ignorant and don't know it - or the ones I have met are. . . . it costs me alot of money to train them! LOL!

[klomasius]

While I don't normally post, I would like to add my 2 cents worth on this topic as I do feel that the 'orthorexic' (or whatever you want to call it) mindset is often derisively dismissed and not given the proper attention it deserves.

Having been a vegan for many years, I've noticed a definite higher number of anorexics (and to a lesser extent bulimics) in the vegan community than in the community at large.

And now having been in the raw community for a while, I've noticed the same thing, perhaps to a slightly greater degree.

My theory is that ED people tend to be drawn to 'restrictive' diets as it often can be an intense need to control the body or a party of their life.

I actually agree that there are people with a 'different' ED than anorexia (literally meaning no appetite), or bulimia, and that the desire to restrict can become dangerous.

What I think happens is that many people are already on the defensive about their 'restrictive' diets that they tend to have an emotional knee jerk reaction with anything that may cast their way of life in a bad light.

However, what I see is the difference between someone bagging a lifestyle and someone expressing a genuine concern over that fact that a small minority of people may be obsessing and putting themselves in danger from over restricting in the guise of a health diet.

Vegan can be healthy, raw can be healthy, but there are people who may need help to distinnguish between their geniune interest in these healthy lifestyles and their obsessive need to restrict their food intake to the point of unhealthiness (mentally and physically).

I'm geniunely concerned that some ED victims are not getting the best treatment they can. Steven Bradman mentions that there can be a lack of connection between patient and health professional, due to the fact that, classed as anorexic, the ED individual may see it as not being them. After all, they DO have an appetite, they DO want to eat, they just want to eat HEALTHY.

Sigh... I'm sorry, I AM just really concerned about those that need help. I don't want our insecurities over a diet we already have to defend to obscure any real problem that some may have.

end of rant...

[thevoyager]

this is the first time ive ever posted this. i feel like i'm done with it.

i am trying to heal my eating disorder with raw foods. when i was very young i was a heavy restricter and only ate the minimal amount of food possible which i believe resulted in my current heart problems. i was 13 and still growing and lost 30 lbs. my body then for years and years craved all of the foods i did not get and i became a binge eater without the purging. i packed on forty pounds i did not eat. a few months ago i used "raw" as an escape to begin binging and purging and only eating raw foods when i was in public. i did this for about one month straight, binging and purging every day. i now have acid reflux. eating disorderly got me nowhere, i ended up overweight, with heart problems and acid reflux.

i'm now learning to love whole and organic foods before i make the transition to 100% raw. i've only been doing this for a short time now but i am getting all of the nutrients and things i crave through organic choices. i don't crave fast food. i hope to transition to 100% raw and eventually not crave the minimal organic cooked food i'm eating, and to learn to appreciate whole foods and treating my body right.

NOTE:my love of organic, raw and vegan foods is not due to disordered eating whatsoever, it's part of my entire lifestyle and being.

i'm definitely on my way!

edit: d'vorah...thanks for that link much appreciated.

[luckitri]

No klomasius, that was a very good post. It needed to be said but I just did not have all the skill and information. You said it very well. I am often concerned. I enjoy this forum so much and I think that it is so healthy in a way but sometimes I have a sneaky little feeling in the back of my mind that some of the people that I love here might really have a problem and if I were present with them I would be aware of it. It is a tough one because everytime a new thing gets prevalent and commonly known and accepted suddenly all professionals and wannabe professionals are labeling everyone with it so in the end we need to be skilled at monitoring ourselves for unhealthy behaviors. . . as well as defending ourselves and our choices against unwarranted charges.

[Apasaraw]

[QUOTE=klomasius]
I'm geniunely concerned that some ED victims are not getting the best treatment they can. Steven Bradman mentions that there can be a lack of connection between patient and health professional...

Here here...the co-worker I have with anorexia has gone to the Dr. many times for feeling too cold, unhealthy and having tingling and numbness in hands and feet, amenoria...the truth is she isn't eating enough and has low body weight and vitamin deficiency. I was kind and listened to her experiences/symptoms and suggested that it might be nutritional. She admits she has an eating disorder but does not get the connection between her health issues and the lack of nutrition. She's so sweet and yet so lost. SHe was really disappointed the Drs had NO ADVICE. They could tell by looking at her she was unwell.

She says her ED is about control. Not getting co-dependant with her but trying to be supportive to her at arm's length. My ED friend's say only she can take the step to recovery...and not to let it stress me...but you know what bugs me?

Not one Dr. said to her, "Hey kid, let me send you to a nutritionist" (she'd love that!) or suggested in a non threatening way that she was underweight or that she just needed a multivitamin. Her Dr. did her a diservice. They just don't want to deal with her it seems...her parents just get mad at her...that isn't going to help is it?

rambling!
sorry.

[Apasaraw]

Super interesting concepts D'vorah! Thanks for the post and info. I'm going to delve into this....it's very logical...

[Apasaraw]

Hi klomasius...great post...I appreciate your words very much. My friends who are in ED recovery would agree with you. They do admit they seek out restrictive eating patterns but know better than to fast. "You don't ask someone with an eating disorder to fast, it's dangerous" is something my pal L said to me over Christmas when her boyfriend suggested one for himself and asked her to join him.

I just wanted to add that in going high raw I do not feel I am restricting my diet. I have celiac (gluten issue) and corn allergies...I can't eat what other people eat. Half of the health food out there would kill me. Modified food starch?

If I was in Thailand where my genes are from I'd be fine eating rice, raw veg and rice! But it gets boring for my western half to eat this way all the time. Raw recipes and raw eating has really opened up choices and variety for me. I also don't have an ED or food issues of any kind...I'm lucky. My food issue was thrust upon me...by avoiding processed foods I basically avoid health problems. I, being Thai also favour veg and fruit raw culturally. Its how my family ate growing up.

I'm not restricting a diet but opening up more avenues for myself....I feel so happy and free now. :)

[rawpriestess]

I find that eating raw food, frees me of my eating disorder, which is non-purging bulimia, overeating, emotional eating, guilt eating, binging, etc. what ever you wish to call it.


when I eat raw food, I feel free, freeer than I have ever felt in my life, eating raw food allows me to eat what I want when I want, and not to eat out of addiction or emotions, and if I do eat for any reason besides hunger, it's rare.

[Apasaraw]

Thank GODDESS! RP is back!!! :)

[misslinda]

Eating disorders are mental emotional conditions with symptoms that are food/body related.

Raw doesn't make one [disordered]. Like Rawkinlocs stated, it is common to be overly concerned,detailed oriented or "obsessed" when adapting to a new lifestyle and not to be mistakened as disordered eating......

As a former sufferer of anorexia/bulimic tendencies of 17 years, I can honestly say that alot of the mental/emotional behaviors was challenged with raw. I still fight those thoughts and feelings as I progress and mature in eating RAW. It didn't matter what I didn't eat or eat, it was my internal thoughts,feelings,fears and associations that MADE raw seem restrictive b/c of my own mindest.

Raw is not about restricting, it is about giving yourself the highest level of eating to LIVE. There is no where written that says you can only have one serving of this or that with raw......

I [know] that I am on the road to being FREE and never looking back. :)

[klomasius]

Thanks luckytri and apasaraw, I wondered what reception that post would get, I'm glad you both realised I wasn't trying to have a go! It's my way of life too. :)

It's definitely tricky.

I think we do need to recognise the restrictive condition as being separate from other EDs. And Bradman seems to have it right I believe.

I do however see problems with the labelling of such a disorder (as necessary as I think it is). It would be so easy for the friends and family of a healthy raw foodist to label them as 'orthorexic' and to dismiss their way of life as simply a disorder. With this comes a whole load of energy that needs to be directed into education and busting myths, but then we're used to doing that aren't we?

But if it means that people who need help with their way of thinking about foods (be they raw, vegan, veg, omni) get that help, then it's worth it.

I think if a lifestyle is robust and healthy enough, it will handle 'airing' of some issues. I don't think raw will be going away any time soon.

[klomasius]

Misslinda,

yes, I think Rawkinlocs' point was a good one, I do think at the beginning that people do tend to obsess and overanalyse things. That's a tendency in the general population. It's not unhealthy, it's just taking particular interest in something new and interesting, which is perfectly fine.

I guess the unhealthy tendencies tend to present when individuals continue on the path of obsessiveness, to the point where restrictions are doing them mental and/or physical harm. This is not normal and needs to be separeted from the above scenario.

Raw is restrictive in the sense that most of us can't just go out to eat at restaraunts, or eat dinner at friends and family's houses and not a. bring our own or b. go through the 101 qs about what's in the food.

We can't just not think about our food when out of the house, and we DO have to put in effort to maintain a healthy diet.

Hopefully this will change sometime in the future, as it has with vegan food.

I long to go out somewhere and not have to THINK about what is going into my mouth (except 'what looks tasty today?'), to have healthy raw options at my fingertips. But that hasn't happened yet.

Seeing raw as a way of 'freeing' yourself is a great attitude, I feel the same way. But I think others may not have as healthy an attitude and we have to put ourselves in their shoes.

Some ED recoverers develop healthy attitudes to food on or via a raw diet, some continue their unhealthy control by using raw as another avenue. We just need to be vigilant.

[klomasius]

I keep forgetting to mention. Voyager, good luck with your healing! I'm glad it's working out for you. :)

[mysticalend]

Wow. Another BS disease created by the minds of our intrepid scientists.

Definition of science: man's extremely limited understanding of the universe.

Ian

[cassidy]

Often - it seems with "Orthorexia" it is developed after another eating disorder such as anorexia or bulima. It can be part of the healing path the person is searching for.
Typically people with ED's (when not being helped by professionals) look to different diets and lifestyle changes to accomadate their ED and make them more functional - in hopes that it will dissipate.
What I have read with Raw - and no other "diet" (I hate calling it that) - is that there are quite a few of us doing just that. And I want to continue thanks to RP and MissLinda and Eatyourbroccoli - If, and I'm assuming you are, have been honest - you have offered a guiding light for people like ME who are deeply concerned with health but yet struggle with and Eating Disorder... a difficult place to be! Professionals see this deep concern with health and eating disorder cocktail as dangerous and label it "Orthorexia" - because God forbid we go unlabeled.
D'vorah - Thank you for you link. I often feel like I subconciously lead myself into an unbalanced life. It takes a lot of hard work to even have one day where I feel balanced. Raw sure helps as does meditation.

What I get from Raw - in all honesty: Freedom from food. I know that is ED related but it gives me relief like nothing else. I don't have to think about food in a negative way. I get to eat whenever and whatever fresh ingredients I want and not have to feel guilty about it - or obsess about it. I have energy, I feel happy and really ...... good. Something I never feel in the depths of ED.
Right now I have gone back to 100% raw doing to a very difficult time I am going through - and honestly it is the only thing getting me through. I say that because other wise I would be binging and purging - numbing myself out and not allowing myself to face the important issues that NEED to be faced.
Thanks to raw I am able to deviate from being eating disordered to be a functioning person again. I imagine to those who havn't experienced and ED this sounds rediculous!

[lissomllama]

No, I cured my eating disorders with raw. It is the only thing that ever could have. Raw has saved my life and my sanity. I went from being a compulsive overeater to being anorexic and bulimic and I have totally healed myself with raw.

Anyone who thinks that raw could give them an eating disorder obviously already had one to begin with, in whatever form.

How could eating the way we were designed to eat, give us health issues? It can't, quite the opposite actually. That isn't to say that someone can't do a bad job of it though, plenty of people do. There are people with eating disorders who eat raw vegan diets but who don't get a healthy balance of all the things they need and that can cause issues. But to say that raw veganism causes eating disorders is not only a dangerous blanket statement but also something that has alot of variables attched to it.

Basically, if you're eating a balanced raw vegan diet and thinking positively with a healthy purpose you will not only thrive, but cure all sorts of issues.

Your friend needs to first work through her mental/emotional food issues and learn how to live on raw in a sensible, healthy way before condemning it and trying to link it with an eating disorder.

So many raw vegans are of the mindset that they 'have' to eat raw and that they are being denied things and not getting to eat cooked stuff and being deprived, etc etc but we need to step back and separate ourselves from that way of thinking. We need to realize that cooked is not food it is an addictive substance that has been radically altered from its natural state (ladies and gentleman, cocaine and heroine are derived from plants as well, but they have been radically altered to toxic substances that we know will harm us) cooked is the same way. Notice I am not using the term 'cooked food' here because it is no longer 'food' in that state.

So people have been eating cooked all their lives, being told it's healthy and all that and yeah, it tastes pretty nice on our confused taste buds and we're all conditioned to develope these emotional bonds to it because we've been eating with family members and being fed by our mothers all our lives so it's no wonder we associate feeling good with eating cooked and therefore, when we stop eating it we react similar to a drug addict who is trying not to take any more heroin or cocaine. Deep down we know it's terrible for us but it has made us feel good when we were eating it in the past (nevermind the crappy after effects, lol) so we automatically feel deprived and when we feel deprived we are much more likely to fail because those toxins in our body cloud our judgement.

We need to break down those walls and refuse to be blinded by addiction. and see that raw, natural food is total abundance. We are not being deprived, we are being fed the best we ever have. We no longer have that unhealthy emotional attachment to foods. Raw is a pure truth. Raw is as natural and normal as one can get. We were designed to live this way, we just need to re-learn how; each of us have our own way of doing that.

If we're going to be raw we have to to think raw as well. The physical step is only half the bag of apples, here. Many raw vegans are still thinking like cooked eaters. That's the main issue. That's why so many people are chiming in saying "it's so hard I can't do it". Just like a drug addicted person.

Eat to live, don't live to eat and realize that the key to a natural, pure lifestyle (as well as most things in life) really do condense down into simple, logical truths, we just have to uncloud our minds and let them come to us. Everything goes back to it's simplest particles and the mind is the same way. All of our complicated thought processes and confusion can be cleared to see that they all originally came from a few simple concepts. Things like comfort, love, happiness, desire etc. Imagine yourselves as young children, your first mentalities are very simple and pure, there is no confusion or doubt or over analyzing. We need to just be and be simple.

Hope that helps and you all get my drift.

Peace! :)

[Raw Venus]

jessireebob..

PCOS has been successfully treated with bioidentical hormones! :)

if you ever want to consider it and have any questions, let me know! id be glad to help.
I have pcos and have never heard that one!
Where did you get this info from?

[Apasaraw]

Mysticalend,

Are you angry at science for some reason. We are not all the same. As a scientist I think you may be generalizing...all of "anythings" are not the same be it people, scientists, blades of grass etc...

Science is about coming up with a wondering...I wonder if...and that is the hypothesis. The research gives us the data to see if the hypothsis is right or wrong.

That is all science is. Raw foodists are an experiment unto themselves, every single one of us...we are all wondering, researching and learning about what works for us as we go...YOU are a scientist. Children are natural scientists. "What will happpen if I do 'this!'" We all learn by experimenting and deducing a result.

Scientists are not cold calculated robots who aim to cause harm. We were geeks who liked math and just want to wonder and measure and research for a living. There's nothing wrong with that. Ethics in science is another matter...if that is your issue I can't help you there...that's even more individual.

I am a warm blooded human who wonders about chakras being measured and "will there be a telephone to talk to the dearly departed in 100 years?" and "What does this place and assemblage of artifacts tell us about the people who lived here? Do their descendants know? Let's ask!" and "How can we prove magic is real mathematically?" and "What is this freakin' 14,000 year old thingy we found? What the heck does it do?!"

--Archaeologist and proud to be preserving precious non-renewable cultural resources.

[misslinda]

Scientists are not cold calculated robots who aim to cause harm. We were geeks who liked math and just want to wonder and measure and research for a living. There's nothing wrong with that. Ethics in science is another matter...if that is your issue I can't help you there...that's even more individual.

I am a warm blooded human who wonders about chakras being measured and "will there be a telephone to talk to the dearly departed in 100 years?" and "What does this place and assemblage of artifacts tell us about the people who lived here? Do their descendants know? Let's ask!" and "How can we prove magic is real mathematically?" and "What is this freakin' thingy we found? What the heck does it do?!"

--Archaeologist and proud to be preserving precious non-renewable cultural resources.


WOW! you are impressive with words.....i'm quite impressed :D

[misslinda]

Apasaraw, *chuckles* I actually liked the unabridged version......it was impressive maestro! :D


I think that all these conditions or dis-eases have one unedrlying basis........disharmony. We can call it whatever we like but dis-harmony in the body needs restoration thru high vibrancy eating and thinking.


:)

[Apasaraw]

...and here I went and deleted becasue it felt like a rant and unproductive...haha..you have such good energy...thanks Miss L!

[misslinda]

...and here I went and deleted becasue it felt like a rant and unproductive...


I liked the beginning ...."not all of us are cold calculated..." :D

you got beef Apasaraw!!! :p


so you are archeologist?


Cassidy, thank you for sharing a very intimate part of yourself......Im so happy that you are finding healing net from the dark side of the ED. ;)

I find that RAW furnishes an ED sufferer with a safety net even though the food is still a struggle....

The "mentality" of eliminating all these bad foods, is reassuring on a intellectual capacity but the body/emotions will still go thru the process. It took me 2 years after discovering raw to come to grips with the ED demon and accept RAW for true healing and not a means to waste away......I can now catch myself out of the thinking once it haunts me.


;)

[Purl]

Rawkinlocs-your post helped me figure out something about why raw didn't stick last year. I had bouts with anorexia from age 12-19, and then began binge eating. When I went raw last year the thinking about rawfood, preparing rawfood, gathering rawfood, reading about rawfood, talking about rawfood, etc etc it all just about drove me mad! When I was anorexic my every thought revolved around food, and I saw what I thought was the old pattern again when I went raw and I quit. But this past year, my binging is nearly gone (I still overeat, but the panic-filled BINGING is gone). I am in a much healthier place. I have been working thru some emotional pain as I work thru and get better handle and gain understanding about my food issues. I am probably the healthiest, mentally, that I have ever been.

Anyway-I don't think I was obsessed with raw-I was just preoccupied for a time and I didn't wait long enough to make it a habit. I'm gonna give it another go around, and do it long enough for the novelty to wear off.

Thank you for you perspective-and sorry if this appears to be a hijack

[VeganGypsie]

An eating disorder is not about what foods you eat, but your attitude towards food. Raw-ism can become a cult-like all-or-nothing mentality, but it can also aid your health in so many ways. I myself am not willing to go 100% because of the social isolation that would cause, even to the extent of my vegetarian friends. I eat mostly raw at home, but some mythical purity is not worth obsessing over for me.
I have been vegan before learning about raw for ethical reasons, and had been told veganism was an eating disorder! excuse me - no. it's a compassionate choice, and has taught me balanced self control. but i knew an anorexic girl (became anorexic on a SAD diet) who used 'i'm vegan' as an excuse not to eat in social situations. that kind of thing is where those prejudices come from, though if she was trying not to be harassed about her food choices, claiming compassion is a thin armor. people hate ethical vegans because we make them feel bad, they don't want to think about the pain they cause.
I'd say don't go by other people's experiences, if it is helping you, keep it up. and if you are worried that your relationship with food is not healthy, talk to your support network, or a shrink, or journaling, meditation. there are a lot of ways to regain balance. anorexia can kill a person, but this other made-up disease, i'm not really buying it.

[rawererin]

wtf- I posted something here a few months ago about orthorexia and it got immediately deleted, how is this thread still here and mine isn't?
not that I'm thread jealous, I'm just saying...

[lalakis]

Boy, do I have a lot to say about this topic!

First, a close friend of mine (actually not a friend any longer, as she was extremely negative and toxic for me) accused me of having orthorexia last year. I couldnt believe it, how ridiculous to condemn someone for being "too healthy"?!?!? When I first became interested in raw foods, and saw how liberating it could be, and shared my interests with her, she brought the orthorexic term out. It made me so beyond angry, I think a term like that is incredibly stupid and just proves that no matter what, EVERY lifestyle is judged. I would love for someone to tell me what the perfect middle ground could be....

Throughout my childhood and teenage years I was always stick-thin, it was extremely difficult for me to reach 100 lbs. I ate typical SAD until I was about 20; lots of meat, cookies, sandwiches, chips, chocolate, etc. I ate this stuff late at night too, and NEVER gained weight. I was even on birth control as a teenager, and STILL never got above 105-110 lbs. I am 5'5".

At 20, I became a vegetarian, and then vegan. I went vegan and stopped taking birth control during the same month, and dropped to about 100-105 lbs. This was in 2006. I still ate a lot of crappy foods though, vegan junk food.

I noticed that in 2006 when I started my senior year of college and into 2007, I was under more stress than ever, and my appetite suffered. I didnt like eating as much as I used to. I first read about raw foods that winter, and thought it made perfect sense, especially since I noticed that I was becoming restrictive with food, for no reason really other than just wanting something to control. Senior year of college was otherwise very out of control and stress-filled. I started to love the feeling of an empty stomach and wouldnt eat after 3pm so that I could have that feeling when I laid down for bed. For whatever reason, it was almost therapeutic during that time. Like I was accomplishing something. Though I felt like this, I didnt want to lose weight or become skinnier. I knew I was already skinny. This is what doesnt make sense to me, I never thought I was fat or needed to lose weight, I just wanted to control something.

So with raw I still felt like I had ultimate control, but it turned into something much more positive. Food became a gift from the universe, something to be cherished. Nourishing. Perfect food. BUT of course I lost weight and got thinner and people noticed. I think my lowest weight was 90 lbs. I freaked out when I stepped on the scale, and immediately gave up raw, even though I felt wonderful and exuberant and full of vigor.

After not being raw, my body reached 120 lbs after a couple of months, more than I have EVER weighed in my life. The rebound after 100% raw is horrible. I have a hard time eating non-raw foods, I end up burping the food up, especially hummus, and then throw up a lot. I dont even want to throw up, it's like my body cant tolerate non-raw foods now. Socially it's so difficult too. I felt SO much better when I wasnt raw anymore and could eat with friends without being questioned. Now I am suffering because I want to be 100% raw again, it's what my body tolerates best, and I want to shed about 10 lbs so that my clothes fit again. Now that I am not 100% I notice myself worrying about eating too late, or too much, all the typical stuff most women worry about on a daily basis. This was never like me!

Anyway, I am writing a novel at this point....but I wanted to say that a need for control did initially lead me to raw, though it was with the intention that I would be doing something good for my body. It seemed so perfect! I just dont understand why my body is holding onto this extra fat that I never had prior to going raw, now that I am not 100% any longer.

To sum it up; I feel that raw foods is liberating for someone who suffers from controlled eating. It might seem restrictive, but really it allows the freedom to never count calories or starve oneself for fear of gaining weight. Free to eat what ever, when ever, with amazing side effects of body and mind.

[vata]

My obsessive anorexic tendendencies are what led me to raw food. But, finally, I can just enjoy a healthy and respectful relationship with food, although I do become almost religious about it. The body IS a temple, eh? LOL! I will admit that I have intense fear of any food not on my approved raw list, and will go hungry rather than risk an improper food combination.

[LAVIECLAIRE]

i've never actually considered myself to have an eating disorder... but i have to admit to myself that the symptoms are there.
i was diagnosed with PCOS this year and gained a ton of weight, since then i've been trying different diets, desperate to get back to my original weight, but after a month of dieting, each time i'd completely binge and eat SAD foods endlessly, adn obviously i'd end up gaining a bunch of weight (again...) and very bloated...
in january, i went vegan and this did help me to lose some weight, but i felt like i couldn't lose unless i ate ONLY fruits and vegs in very small amounts, and i often felt weak and tired. one week i decided to eat until i was completley full and i gained back 2 kilos... (even though i was still completely vegan, and only eat fruits and veg!--> that's the results of PCOS for you :S)
desperate for a solution, i looked into raw foods, the first week i felt amazing but i don't think i was eating enough... still felt weak at times, but my body definitely felt lighter.
last week my friend came to visit me (she is a big SAD eater) i warned her about my new way of eating and she seemed supportive, but when i was with her, i'd definitely binge, nuts, nut butters, dates, key lime mousse, and although it was all raw, it was definitely more than i needed. i kept telling myself its ok, on raw you don't have to feel guilty about anything you eat! but i gained weight, and again was bloated from my pretty much constant intake of food...
after this i went on a MC, i had planned to do it for 7 days, but on day 5 i couldn't stand the taste of the lemonade anymore so i stopped... i ate 4 nori rolls for lunch (filled with half a spoon of guac, and sprouts)- so pretty healthy but i don't think it was the right way to break my cleanse
this brings me to this very moment. i'm at a bit of a loss, i love eating raw foods, i never crave cooked, i love 'uncooking' and trying new things, but i can't find the balance of eating what i need. when i prepare food myself i seem to eat everything around me in the kitchen (still, it's all raw, but not healthy!)
many people may find that they can eat as much as they want on raw, but with PCOS i feel like if i don't eat the absolute minimum i will keep gaining and gaining weight.
so i suppose i do have a tendency to binge... i'm trying to stop, but then i feel like all i think about is food, overanalyzing everything... i'm at a bit of a loss, all i know is that i love raw food! but i really need to get my life in order

[stacyface]

i have an ed and it's always been hard to explain to people that being vegan has NOTHING to do with it. raw vegan, i haven't even brought it up. for me, i believe being on a raw diet is the healthiest diet and that is the way we're meant to eat. unfortunately, i end up bingeing on cooked foods a LOT. i need to stop. i know some of it stays in me after purging and i believe it is an addiction. the whole cycle is, it's a very difficult thing to deal with. it makes me feel hopeful that some of you have healed your ed with raw. i HATE having this disorder. i've been overeating since i was very young. food numbs/distracts me. UGH! i look forward to the day when i am a pure raw foodist who is at peace with food and more importantly with MYSELF. for now i just take it a day at a time.

[Sunshine9]

I do think that the raw food "movement" can contribute to someone developing an ED. My experience was mixed. I ate 100% raw for a year and a half, and about six months into I started to get really sick. I don't think it was because of the raw, i think it was a combination of previous illnesses surfacing and the fact that I was binging daily (on 100% raw vegan foods) and my body eventually got into trouble. Hormone imbalances, extreme bloating, and 20 pound weight gain. I suffered from extreme anxiety because all of the experts in the raw movement said a million different things--i was detoxing, i was eating too much fruit, too many nuts, i needed to fast, etc. Every message essentially told me I wasn't eating "perfectly" enough, and I felt so defeated. I was incredibly angry at myself for not being able to eat the raw diet the right way.

I do feel like the raw movement supports extreme perfectionism, so of course those with ED tendancies thrive in it. If you don't feel good eating raw, you're either continually DETOXING or you're DOING IT WRONG. Its hard to make correct blanket statements of why the diet might not be working for all. Usually its personal, and a combaination of past physical and emotional issues. Raw definitely helps if the ED is fueled by allergy triggers, which I do believe exist. But my personal experience is that eating disorders are about emotional issues, and no food is going to heal your mind.

[sarahtolson]

My obsessive anorexic tendendencies are what led me to raw food. But, finally, I can just enjoy a healthy and respectful relationship with food, although I do become almost religious about it. The body IS a temple, eh? LOL! I will admit that I have intense fear of any food not on my approved raw list, and will go hungry rather than risk an improper food combination.

Intense fear of non-approved food, and going hungry doesn't sound healthy to me... IMHO. :confused:

What I have noticed throughout most of these comments is a morality placed on food. Food is amoral. It isn't good or bad... it becomes so when placed in human hands.

There are foods that help us feel, live, work, and be the best, and foods that don't. Most of us have chosen to live on the foods that make us feel the best (i.e. Raw) but that doesn't make us better than anyone who hasn't chosen that. Extremes are never healthy.....Balance is. :)

[EZ rider]

If I have developed any eating disorders from being a raw vegan it is simply this: I can't eat any cooked food without loosing control. If I eat any cooked food I want more and I can't stop thinking about it for days after. Its like stepping off Terra firma and onto a sheet of thin glazed ice. I find it difficult to stand and I feel like the thin ice may give way under my feet at any moment. If I stay raw everything is OK and I feel the solid earth below my feet.

[domestic goddess]

mysticalend, I am guessing you have never had any experience with an eating disorder?

I can relate with much of what is said here from both a place of battling an eating disorder AND feeling like there were many people in the raw communities using raw as a 'cover' for their still existing disordered eating...I even stayed away from here for that reason as I felt like all I ever read was people wanting to know how to lose weight, why they weren't losing weight, how much weight so-and-so lost...not that those things aren't important, but it felt like the bigger picture of raw was being lost...

I agree 100% that raw can CURE ed's...though I am more convinced it can help bulemia over anorexia only based on my own personal experiences. I also 100% agree with the food allergy theories and the 'falling off the wagon' and having a resurgance of your ed due to eating SAD after raw. I had that exact experience and am still struggling to recover from that.

I do believe that raw is truely the best way to live, and whatever extent you can do that is only going to benefit your health.

[iluvmangos]

Here's a site I found that claims to be the originator of the term:


http://www.orthorexia.com/index.php?page=katef

Quote from that site:

"Does it sound beyond your ability to eat a meal prepared with love by your mother – one single meal – and not try to control what she serves you?"

So, if Mom wants to serve me bacon and eggs, I should just eat it because she prepared it with love and, if I don't, I have an eating disorder? It sounds like this guy thinks that if a person refuses to eat unhealthy food, that they have "orthorexia". If that's what orthorexia is then I don't believe in it. Only eating healthy food is not a disorder.

[Eva]

I feel like it's the opposite of developing an ED for me. I find it very difficult these days to binge or to turn to food out of emotional needs.

I do sometimes eat before I'm hungry though because I feel like I "should" be eating more often than I'm becoming hungry. Very strange. I guess it's true that we eventually need less calories, but I guess I'm not perfectly prepared to face that! :)

And I remember when I would get ice cream or candy from the store (pre raw). I "couldn't" have just a little bit. I would always have the whole carton or whole container of whatever. Now what? The whole bag of carrots? All of the kale? It's just not the same as cheese or ice cream!

[greenfeline]

We know better than others that doctors are not infallable. Regarding orthorexia I think it is a bit silly. To diagnose someone with something or think up a new disorder is just that: thinking up something and putting a name to it. Doctors don't always have the right advice or ideas, they are just people.

[Sunshine9]

I always thought orthorexia was silly too, until I became good friends with a girl who has it. It is absolutely something that exists, though I believe it is more a subset of anorexia than a separate eating disorder. My friend has an appetite and enjoys eating very much. It is very difficult though for her to eat any food out of her normal routine. She eats very specific raw and cooked items in small portions, with a lot of restrictions.

Orthorexia certainly shouldn't be pegged on anyone who restricts their diet or eats raw, but it seems to exist.

[RawSinger]

I agree with all of the above statements! Also, what people need to realize is that, ANYtime something is new to you, you will seemingly be obsessed and overly-involved with it! When I stopped chemically processing my hair and began to wear it naturally, I found online forums for support and I was on them ALL the time, I viewed websites and pictures of other women who had began this journey before me and just admired their hair and longed for the day when I would be as confident with wearing my hair "nappy" after almost a lifetime of wearing it the way most Black women in society wear theirs...STRAIGHTENED. I needed the support and being around like-minded people, as Paradise2 stated. But guess what? It's been going on 6 years now and I rarely visit those forums, those websites, etc. anymore. I peep in every now and then just to see if there's some interesting discussion or see if I can help out someone else who is new to it all...but for the most part, I don't even think about hair anymore because it has now become second-nature to me...I LOVE my hair and I'm very comfortable in it!

The same will and does hold true with the raw foods lifestyle...in the beginning it does seem like you're very consumed in it and it's all you think about and read about and you're on these forums and websites all the time because it's new and you're learning and growing and needing support in this world where the majority of people are the exact opposite in terms of dietary lifestyle. BUT...it won't always be this way. Eventually it's going to become so natural to you...second nature and you won't even think twice about it.

The main reason I visit RFT daily is because I'm a moderator...but also because I like being around like-minded people and you can't/don't always find them in the real world. But all the question-asking and seeking answers and concerns are gone now for me because I'm very comfortable in being raw. It's a part of me now and while I do have my moments of temptations and slips...I KNOW in my heart what's right and always return to it...but I no longer "obsess" over it.

I'm sure this is true for many.

Rawkinlocs, you are so right!! What you said just rings so true for me. I'm on this forum every single day, for hours a day sometimes, and into the wee hours of the morning (like I am right now). I thought I was a little strange but your words make me feel a lot more normal.

Raw food is my life right now. As much as I've learned about this lifestyle in the approx. 4 months I've been involved with it, I'm still so new at this!! I can't wait for the day when it's second nature to me!! Boy will that be the day!!

By the way, cassidy, I understand where you're coming from. But as others have stated, one can become consumed by any life change. And I completely agree, it's one's state of mind that affects whether or not one develops an eating disorder (an eating disorder is a serious thing and this phrase is overused, in my opinion). And if one does "develop" an eating disorder from the raw food diet, they most likely had these tendencies before they started the diet.

[TaupeRawMan]

This is a fascinating thread! I am so glad it was revived....

This is going to be a long thread....you have been warned!:o

I am currently re-reading the book Orthorexia by Bratman. I read it a few years ago (pre-raw) and now again as my nutritionist is concerned I might have these tendencies. I was trying to explain that I feel best when cleansing or right after a cleanse. I am underweight and I know that. I am trying to put weight back on, but feel a lack of appetite and bloating when eating heavier foods.

The book is very interesting, especially regarding Raw Foodists. The author is a holistic medical doctor who, himself, tried various food lifestyles and found himself becoming quite obsessive with rules. His theory is that raw foodists are striving for purity and extreme lightness. Any feeling of heaviness is difficult to cope with. I do see some of what he says existing in many raw foodists (including myself).

My confusion right now is when someone feeling fatigue or having other medical problems, how does one know if they are a) under nourished (not eating enough or getting the right nutrients), b) toxic and needing to cleanse, c) eating in bad combinations or eating the wrong foods, d) dealing with an actual medical issue that may not yet have been discovered, or e) dealing with emotional issues that are wreaking havoc on the body?

I think a lot depends on which lens you look through. A doctor/nutritionist might say (a), raw foodists might say (b or c), a naturopath might say (d), and a therapist might say (e).

I, personally, am really struggling with this. I believe in raw food and that approach, but the message given if one is having problems is to restrict further, fast, and cleanse (even though I have been 100% organic and raw for 5 years and 100% vegan for 25 years). Granted, cleansing is a lifetime process, but my understanding is that raw gives energy and resolves issues. I have read how beneficial enemas and colonics are, have tried them and felt better, but don't know how healthy or normal it is to do on a regular basis (I don't mean daily, but some of the theories out there is that regular cleansing is critical for 100% raw foodists or you shouldn't be 100% raw. The body is supposed to be able to heal itself on raw food over time. I have also been told to listen to my body. I am trying, but I don't know what it is saying. Sometimes things digest well, but it varies and there is no pattern. Most people on here talk about how much energy they have and how digestion is better, etc. I keep restricting and simplifying and cutting things out to try to solve the problem. I want to let go and just eat. I think maybe I need more fiber so I can add flax to my smoothies...oh no, bad food combining! Or, a nice salad with avocado would be nice...oh no, lemon juice and avocado might be an issue! Or, how about sunflower pate? Eating sprouted seeds might be exhausting my system! Or how about....that pineapple looks nice....oh no - it is from Costa Rica...it might be a problem due to the processing involved when coming into this country or that it is from a different climate. This is why my nutritionist thinks I am dealing with orthrexia. If I was feeling good, I wouldn't worry about all these rules as being the possible reason that I am not feeling good. I am not looking for some purity or supreme health. IHell....I just want to be able to eat without bloating, put some weight on, have an appetite, and walk down the street without being exhausted.

Thanks for listening....this is a nice place!:)

[greenfeline]

I know obsessive disorders exist, but my problem is when you label something and link it to a lifestyle (like raw) then there is the slippery slope or stereotyping danger. People tend to paint with a broad brush. The only thing I can say that really our body is a mystery. Practice getting in tune with your body and how foods feel. Yes, at first like Rawkinlocks said you will spend a lot of time reading about raw, but hopefully that will die down a bit and raw will become just the way you eat and not your whole life. I try not focus so much time, but I do like to check in on the boards for new recipes etc...