WARNING: Cabbage will mess up your thyroid!

[Truth Frog]

I'm reading a book on diabetes (family members), they have a brief paragraph on cautions for eating raw food.

1) Some carotenes (lycopene and lutein) are better absorbed from cooked foods.

2) Raw cabbage-family foods (brocolli, cf, etc) have compounds that interfere with thyroid hormone production.

Of course my intial reaction was "Oh no! Pass the steak!" (yeah right). Anyone have any info on this?

[Sheryl]

You get just as much lycopene from BLENDED raw tomatoes as from cooked! It's no big deal. As with most things you don't want to take one food and make it a mainstay. It's best to rotate them and eat from a variety of foods. cabbage family foods have been shown to be amazing against cancer too.

Cheers,
Sheryl

[Revvell]

Sheesh! :rolleyes: More scare stuff. Where do you people FIND this stuff? Do you purposely going looking for "What's bad about raw food?"

[Rawkinlocs]

Hi TruthFrog,

Well, firstly I'd like to say that many people eat and have eaten the aforementioned foods in their raw state with no problems and actually, have obtained healing from diabetes, thyroid issues, etc. even with those foods in their diets.

Now having said that, I would like to share with you something I shared with someone else who emailed me about something similar off-list:

RE: certain foods being better in the cooked state...

Well, I'm no "Dr. Furman" or "Dr.", period, but here are my thoughts:

1. Although I am a strong advocate for eating a "free" raw "diet" meaning, not placing restrictions on it or limiting one's intake of raw foods be they certain veggies, dehydrated things for transition, etc. especially in the beginning - I do believe much of what Natural Hygiene teaches is true overall (some day I may follow it but for now, just not ready to get that "deep") and one of those things is that there are some foods that just are not truly meant for human consumption and this is evident because they are not appealing or fully digestable in their natural, unaltered state. I believe that some of the foods we tend to "force-feed" ourselves, we do so because we were taught they are healthy and good for us. But you can very much have a successful raw food lifestyle without feeling the need to incorporate some of those tougher-to-digest foods. Some of these foods are the very ones that people suggest we "need" to cook to get the most benefit out of them such as broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, the very tough and bitter greens just to name a few.

I don't know many people who salivate at the sight of cabbage or broccoli but show me a human who's palette and body are not too corrupt/toxic who doesn't find a fresh, juicy piece of fruit inviting and pleasing to the eye. I mean, tree bark may have TONS of nutrients in it, but imagine us trying to eat it off the tree! But if some "scientist" or someone discovered how beneficial it could be in the declining health of mankind,namely Americans, they'd most definitely tell us that we HAVE to boil it first to make it easier to digest and assimilate the nutrients. But we all know that tree bark is simply NOT human food! I earnestly believe that fruit IS our most natural food and is what we were originally intended to eat...but due to whatever circumstances occured many moons ago, we had to learn to adapt to other foods including animal products especially if migration to other parts of the world that were not conducive to growing fruit trees occured.


2. Even with wanting to have a better variety of food choices and choosing to consume the more cruciferous veggies, one can still get benefits from it by eating in the raw state...may-BE not as much as when steamed, etc...but enough and if there is any question about that there are other ways to get the benefits without cooking. One of those ways would be to massage a little sea salt into the leaves of tougher greens to sort of "wilt" them down and break down some of the cellulous. Another way would be to toss in a little olive oil (or not) and put into the dehydrator for a while until it's broken down similar to steaming but without the excessively high heat temperatures. I know a dehydrator isn't natural either, but at least it will keep the temps lower so it's still preserving much more than cooking would.

3. And lastly, I honestly feel that you have to make a firm decision as to whether or not YOU truly feel that a raw food diet is the most optimal way to eat for humans. Once you have established that in your mind, spirit and heart, you will no longer even bother seeking out and/or reading material that goes against it nor will you find yourself bound to counting calories and adding up what you eat...NO other creature on God's green earth does this except for humans. Why? I figure it's because we started cooking our food in the first place and that is where all the chaos started with our diets. Had we stuck with or been able to stick with our original, nature and/or God-intended diet, I really don't believe we'd even have to be questioning anything about if we are eating correctly, if we are getting "xyz" nutrient, etc. Just my opinion!

Now as for the thyroid issue...I'm not too well-versed on that subject as far as what foods to avoid, etc. but many here have thyroid issues and have mentioned some foods affecting the goiter (there's a name for it, but I forget) and I'm sure some of those members may chime in on that aspect.

As for the tomato issue...this thread may help a bit!
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22644&highlight=lycopene

And lastly, we do try to keep a more positive vibe on the forum and allow it to be for the support of those who have found that eating raw is good and they want to do it and come here for support. If you check out the mission statement, you'll see that it's kinda frowned upon to post anti-raw stuff that kinda scares people out of eating raw foods. But we realize you are just seeking answers and hopefully this thread will go in the direction of keeping you interested in eating raw even if it means taking raw broccoli over that steak!

[PeachyMama]

I have autoimmune thyroid disease. And I adore raw cabbage and broccoli. Always have, even before going raw.

I simply don't eat them every day.

As Sheryl alluded, it's all about balance. Today, in fact, I wallowed in goitrogens ... had a green smoothie with a whole bunch of kale in it and a truly yummy broccoli salad.

I probably wont have anything else from that family for the rest of the week.

and ...

It's all good, as far as I'm concerned.

[juliebove]

I'm reading a book on diabetes (family members), they have a brief paragraph on cautions for eating raw food.

1) Some carotenes (lycopene and lutein) are better absorbed from cooked foods.

2) Raw cabbage-family foods (brocolli, cf, etc) have compounds that interfere with thyroid hormone production.

Of course my intial reaction was "Oh no! Pass the steak!" (yeah right). Anyone have any info on this?

They certainly can mess up your thyroid as can any of the goitrogenic foods. If you do a search on the Internet for this you'll turn up tons of hits. But remember, just because something "can" happen doesn't mean it will. I limit the amount of these foods I eat. I used to eat a lot of soy and other such foods and I did have a thyroid problem. I totally stopped the soy and only eat cabbage a few times a year and in very small amounts. No more thyroid problems.

[mershwista]

I'd say the risks of eating cabbage are significantly less than the risks of eating meat, by far, as far as diseases such as diabetes are concerned. Our bodies weren't meant to digest flesh, so they just don't do it as efficiently. Vegans are at a dramatically lower risk for osteoporosis, diabetes, and heart disease. I have a friend that is vegan for those reasons.

www.rawveganradio.com was talking about the nutrient issue a few shows ago. They're all archived and up there for the listening, and on the one that talked about it, the speaker discussed how only 1 in approximately 1,000 nutrients will have enhanced quantities when cooked. That's quite a sacrifice, giving up those other 999...

[dreamrawalwz]

i just read about this "scare/myth" today in Conscience Eating. Those specifics toxins from that family are in the seed itself and you'd need A LOT of them to have any negative effect.

[luckitri]

Rawkinlocs pretty much said it all. All that stuff you are reading are rules written for cooked food eaters. There are no rules with raw! (yet) Well the only rule I know of is to listen to your body and what it tells you about the foods you eat. There is information out there about some beans that will make you sick if you sprout them. I haven't tried it. I had a difficult time believing that any of the food God put here for us would make us ill but I am not going to test this knowledge myself.

Regarding items that are not easily digested. Many of us (and our toddlers) find it perfectly natural to keep a food item in our mouths for a long time as we go about our business around the house. I suspect that the harder to digest foods are the ones kept in the mouth for a long time. It helps you to remember to keep your mouth shut when running or strong physical exertion and so keep the flys and dirt out - maintain body fluids and it seems to sustain me. I can picture doing hard labor on a farm and keeping kale in my mouth for long term sustenance while working in the pre-chewing gum era. As a kid the other kids taught me to eat a twig of beechnut tree to get the minty bark off and kept it in our mouths as we ran around exploring woods and farms. Eventually we digested it - if it were a young spring shoot - or we spit it out after getting all the good taste - when it was a toughened winter bark. Here in the desert we learned from the Native Americans to grab some leaves of the bitter - tasting chapparall when faint from the heat. Pop it in your mouth and keep moving! It is an herb used for many healing things. I am looking at Natural Hygiene also but I am a long way from it and giving up healing herbs.

[Pierre]

I eat lots of gai lan (my favorite crucifer) and usually add dulse to it. And when I had my blood tested, they found nothing wrong with my thyroid, or anything else.

[Truth Frog]

I like this site, that was a pretty quick and comprehensive response! Thanks.

Sorry for posting "anti-raw" stuff, I'm just trying to learn. I'm pretty pro-raw, but I still want to hear all the anti-raw info out there to make an informed decision. I understand the 'support' thing, but I don't see how a little education hurts anything. This isn't a religion, let's hear all the facts!

I'm satisfied that these 2 issues aren't something I need to worry about.

I don't think that any specific raw food being "bad" hurts the diet/lifestyle/whatever as a whole anyway. Theres lots of poisonous mushrooms, doesn't mean mushrooms are "bad".

[Sheryl]

Truth Frog (cute name)... I think what was being referred to was the title of your post which made a definitive statement of fact : "WARNING: Cabbage will mess up your thyroid!". Maybe next time ask a question instead or phrase it differently. I still get a shock when I look at the title even though I know what the thread is about.

I totally support you in learning though!

Cheers,
Sheryl

[Rawkinlocs]

I like this site, that was a pretty quick and comprehensive response! Thanks.

Sorry for posting "anti-raw" stuff, I'm just trying to learn. I'm pretty pro-raw, but I still want to hear all the anti-raw info out there to make an informed decision. I understand the 'support' thing, but I don't see how a little education hurts anything. This isn't a religion, let's hear all the facts!

I'm satisfied that these 2 issues aren't something I need to worry about.

I don't think that any specific raw food being "bad" hurts the diet/lifestyle/whatever as a whole anyway. Theres lots of poisonous mushrooms, doesn't mean mushrooms are "bad".

That's cool, but let's just please respect the rules the forum owner has set forth regarding that. One can find "all the facts" in many places on the 'net and abroad if one wishes to find it.

[Truth Frog]

I think what was being referred to was the title of your post which made a definitive statement of fact : "WARNING: Cabbage will mess up your thyroid!". Maybe next time ask a question instead or phrase it differently. I still get a shock when I look at the title even though I know what the thread is about.


Ha, yeah, sorry. I'll try to think before I type.

[Stina]

After reading Sally Fallon's book Nourishing Traditions I only eat fermented cabbage- still a raw product but much more digestible, tasty and full of natural probiotics. Easy recipes in that book.

[Naiad]

I eat a kale salad every day, but, try to chew on a sheet of nori or have dulse and garlic together.

I LOVE my kale and avocado salads... I tried making it with romaine or a baby herb salad, but, it just isn't the same.

HELP! I need help with my addiction to raw kale :( :D :p

[mershwista]

I love raw cabbage, too...in salads with almonds and green onions, because it's so crunchy. I'd say listen to your body and keep eating the stuff unless it says to stop.

[Bechtel]

From the book "Wild Fermentation":

"...Raw cabbage, according to some nutritionists should not be eaten on a daily basis because of the presence of goiter gens, substances that block the formation of thyroid hormone. This in turn makes it difficult for the liver to convert the plant form of vitamin A into the animal form. Fermented cabbage is a transformed vegetable and does not have these limitations..."

[Shmoopie]

From the book "Wild Fermentation":

"...Raw cabbage, according to some nutritionists should not be eaten on a daily basis because of the presence of goiter gens, substances that block the formation of thyroid hormone. This in turn makes it difficult for the liver to convert the plant form of vitamin A into the animal form. Fermented cabbage is a transformed vegetable and does not have these limitations..."

Awesome. Now...how does one go about fermenting cabbage? :confused: :p

[swingbolder]

Awesome. Now...how does one go about fermenting cabbage? :confused: :p

Kimchee is a common dish made of fermented cabbage. You can buy it at the health food store or make it yourself. There are a couple of recipes for it in the recipe forum.

[Truth Frog]

Sauerkraut! Excellent, I planned on eating a lot anyway, supposed to be very good for the digestive system (cleansing). I'm going to try doing it in mason jars, there's a million sauerkraut 'recipes' out there. More like 'procedures', the ingredients are salt/cabbage, although I'm going to try adding stuff like onion, spices.

[Maria]

I have always loved raw cabbage and I eat a fair amount of it in salads. I also addicted to kale, but I don't know if it is "bad" for me. My body seems to really enjoy these items. Maybe I should only eat kale a couple of times a week, but it's great in green smoothies. I will just listen to my body...

[Mira Sheri]

As luckitri said - I have a hard time believing that any of the foods God gave us can make us ill! On the other hand, who's to say what is a natural food and what is actually poisonous to us? :confused:

I slowly built up to being 100% raw on New Year's Eve, and have already lost a kilo! :D I have eaten cabbage every day, but perhaps I should cut down on that, then...

I also made a delicious salad yesterday with raw string beans (aka snap beans) in it - but today I stumbled across some info saying they are poisonous! :eek: Apparantly they contain prussic (hydrocyanic) acid, which is broken down when cooked. From the sites I found, this is widespread knowledge in Germany/The Netherlands/Switzerland, but it's the first I've heard of it. Anyway, if I can't eat them raw I won't have them at all... Does anyone know any more about this? And do you know if the same goes for all types of green beans? (Apologies if the second half of my post is hijacking the thread here, but my questions are fairly in line with the topic so I thought there might not be a need to start a new one.)

[Truth Frog]

As luckitri said - I have a hard time believing that any of the foods God gave us can make us ill! On the other hand, who's to say what is a natural food and what is actually poisonous to us? :confused:


I think the line between safe and not is fuzzy and grey. A food that makes one species healthy will kill another. Lot's of foods are healthy in moderation and harmful at high doses. Even pure water will kill you at high doses. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if raw brassica veggies were harmful at high doses, and that wouldn't even mean that they weren't healthy in moderation either.

[mershwista]

I'd like to know exactly how much cabbage the animals were fed which were used in the tests to determine how much was a harmful amount.

[luckitri]

I love raw green beans and snap peas. I don't know if that is the same item since here I can see different names for the same item in different stores or different seasons. Nobody has ever told me not to eat them - and I'm not buying it. LOL!

[lissomllama]

I love raw cabbage and carrots and tomatoes and all that stuff. NOTHING is better asorbed cooked. When food is heated it is killed, denatured and rendered useless and usually toxic. No exceptions. My body loves raw cabbage, but everyone is different. Honestly, I wouldn't give that silly assumption another thought. It is what you make it sometimes. I could never imagine something and gorgeous and full of life as cabbage causing any problems like that.

[RawFoodieMom]

I'd like to know exactly how much cabbage the animals were fed which were used in the tests to determine how much was a harmful amount.Yes, this is the big question I think. The proportions they use in tests are crazy sometimes. They seem to forget that animals are waaaaay smaller than us so if they're feeding an animal a cup of something a day, that's like us eating a tbsp of it a day. And very often, that's ALL they are giving the animal to eat. They feed the animal something exclusively and think that's an indication of whether it's healthy to eat. Well, I don't know anyone that just eats one certain food item everyday and that's all they eat, so is it really accurate? Often, when I read information about a study there's not enough information about how it was run to make a decision on whether it makes sense or not. Just "we fed the animal this and THIS happened". Well, is that ALL you fed it? How much of it per day, did the animal get any exercise, how much water did it get, how long was it fed said item, and how was it prepared. Did it get washed, was it organic, etc, etc, etc, etc... LOL They should leave the animals alone and just eat the food themselves and see. :)

Debra