An Observation

[JGex]

So, I've been reading the forums pretty heavily in the last couple of weeks both here and on other raw sites, and I was a little curious about something....

I saw several threads where raw foodists or vegans were not happy that they were being "judged" about their diets by non-vegan types, but in other threads saw where other vegans were vehemently judging people who eat meat in their chosen diets.

Isn't that sort of the same thing?

[Zuzu]

Are you stirring the pot?

[Biff]

People can judge however they want about me eating healthy. Fact is that I am off my asthma meds now because of my diet and I am thrilled about that!

While I think most people here want other people to know how good this diet is for them, and how not eating meat can actually be good for the environment - maybe this comes off as judging by some. Either way, I try to live my life and help the people who want to be helped. Trying to help somebody who doesn't want to hear it just causes bad feelings from both sides.

Not sure if somebody can really answer your original post, and even if you do find the answer that you are looking for - will this answer enable *you* to grow or become a healthier person?

[JGex]

Are you stirring the pot?

No. I'm genuinely curious about how others view this.

Do you have any thoughts on it?

[JGex]

People can judge however they want about me eating healthy. Fact is that I am off my asthma meds now because of my diet and I am thrilled about that!

That *is* something to be thrilled about! Good on ya!


While I think most people here want other people to know how good this diet is for them, and how not eating meat can actually be good for the environment - maybe this comes off as judging by some.

Some of the things I read were actually a lot stronger than just telling someone a non-meat diet was not good for them.


Either way, I try to live my life and help the people who want to be helped. Trying to help somebody who doesn't want to hear it just causes bad feelings from both sides.

That's been my experience, too.... until someone is ready to make a change in their life, whether diet, drugs, or whatever, they won't be receptive most of the time to even well-intentioned help. I think Robert Heinlein said, "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."


Not sure if somebody can really answer your original post, and even if you do find the answer that you are looking for - will this answer enable *you* to grow or become a healthier person?

Questions help me understand some things better, so I would say the answer is yes.

If this is too touchy a subject, it's quite ok with me if the topic is deleted. I'm not trying to get anyone all riled up!!

[Doe]

JGex, I'm not sure about other raw sites since I avoid most of them because of the attitude allowed. This site used to be called by the others "snappy sweet." Didn't bother us any, we liked it that way with everyone being polite and considerate of others opinions and desires. It has grown considerably and the family atmosphere simply doesn't exist any more.

However, Alissa Cohen is raw vegan and would like the discussions to stay in that area. Many who post here may still eat animal products but do not discuss it here out of respect for Alissa and her wishes. If one wants to discuss raw animal products there must be sites for that.

Nothing wrong with questions; they are a necessary part of learning.

Teri S

[Revvell]

Questions help me understand some things better, so I would say the answer is yes.



Well, it comes down to understanding people in general. They judge. Everyone judges. They'll attempt to pretty it up by saying the are observing or discerning yet, in order to discern and even observe one is usually judging. Some judge things that have nothing to do with them in order to feel better about themselves. Others do (even the same ones), just to make a decision. To ask why and expect an answer is like teaching pigs to sing.....

It is what it is.

Revvell

[Doe]

JGex, after rereading your post maybe you were just commenting about some who were being judgemental. The pot calling the kettle black kind of thing? We can all work on not doing that.

Teri S

[JGex]

JGex, I'm not sure about other raw sites since I avoid most of them because of the attitude allowed. This site used to be called by the others "snappy sweet." Didn't bother us any, we liked it that way with everyone being polite and considerate of others opinions and desires. It has grown considerably and the family atmosphere simply doesn't exist any more.

However, Alissa Cohen is raw vegan and would like the discussions to stay in that area. Many who post here may still eat animal products but do not discuss it here out of respect for Alissa and her wishes. If one wants to discuss raw animal products there must be sites for that.

Nothing wrong with questions; they are a necessary part of learning.

Teri S

Thanks for the input. I can respect that.

Actually, though, I wasn't trying to discuss the eating of meat or animal products specifically - it was more a question on respect. Maybe I should have used "SAD" instead of "meat" in the question?

[Doe]

Well, Revvell got the point first. Thanks for pointing it out to us though JGex. Some of us are trying to evolve beyond pigdom. Hmmm, I don't sing worth a flip either.

Be nice. Be nice. Be nice. Should I write it 100 times? Oh, that's just for the judgemental offender.

*tiptoeing out of the room*

Teri S

[JGex]

JGex, after rereading your post maybe you were just commenting about some who were being judgemental. The pot calling the kettle black kind of thing? We can all work on not doing that.

Teri S

Yes! I have a hard time being clear sometimes.... it drives my hubby crazy.

:o

[JGex]

Well, it comes down to understanding people in general. They judge. Everyone judges. They'll attempt to pretty it up by saying the are observing or discerning yet, in order to discern and even observe one is usually judging. Some judge things that have nothing to do with them in order to feel better about themselves. Others do (even the same ones), just to make a decision. To ask why and expect an answer is like teaching pigs to sing.....

It is what it is.

Revvell


lol, thanks Revvell. You are correct.

;)

[PantryRaider]

If there is anything I hate, it is judgemental people.

[Rawkinlocs]

I agree with Revvell...EVERYONE judges at some point or another whether directly or indirectly or labelled/disguised as something else. In all truth and honesty, even saying "I hate judgemental people" is a form of judgment.

I'm sure if we all sat down and took inventory of our lives we'd see it.

[luckitri]

This thread makes me wish that I was multi-lingual. Perhaps other languages have words that discriminate between various types of judging - the necessary and the detrimental.

[Revvell]

If there is anything I hate, it is judgemental people.

HAH!!!!!!

Revvell

[sport]

We are a group with a common purpose and I think that within that group we should be allowed express that common purpose in a way that we would not in public.
Being over critical in public is a different matter.

[trinity082482]

People judge. Its human nature and no one likes to be the one being judged. I say do what you want. Let others be miserable. Dont let them bring you down. ;)

[JGex]

If there is anything I hate, it is judgemental people.

Ha! This made me chuckle!!

[JGex]

I agree with Revvell...EVERYONE judges at some point or another whether directly or indirectly or labelled/disguised as something else. In all truth and honesty, even saying "I hate judgemental people" is a form of judgment.

I'm sure if we all sat down and took inventory of our lives we'd see it.


I catch myself doing it, too. Certainly I am not above the occasional "cattiness" any more than anyone else.

I guess it just struck me as ironic that in one place folks are just wanting their families and friends to respect their dietary choice of a strict raw menu while in another talking about how ignorant others are for their dietary choices.

On the one hand, I completely agree that there is an astounding level of ignorance in regards to nutrition amongst the general population. We're not taught nutrition in school, nor are we taught preventative health measures. The only reason I know more than the average bear is because I sought out the information. I would assume that others pursuing a healthier existance know what they know for the same reason.

My own mother & my inlaws are prime examples of bad dietary practices, and their health reflects it, but in the last 20 years I've just had to realize that it's a waste of my breath to try and educate them on something they have no interest in or the willingness to learn about.

It takes a lot of energy to worry about other people's lifestyles... ;)

[Rawkinlocs]

I catch myself doing it, too. Certainly I am not above the occasional "cattiness" any more than anyone else.

I guess it just struck me as ironic that in one place folks are just wanting their families and friends to respect their dietary choice of a strict raw menu while in another talking about how ignorant others are for their dietary choices.

On the one hand, I completely agree that there is an astounding level of ignorance in regards to nutrition amongst the general population. We're not taught nutrition in school, nor are we taught preventative health measures. The only reason I know more than the average bear is because I sought out the information. I would assume that others pursuing a healthier existance know what they know for the same reason.

My own mother & my inlaws are prime examples of bad dietary practices, and their health reflects it, but in the last 20 years I've just had to realize that it's a waste of my breath to try and educate them on something they have no interest in or the willingness to learn about.

It takes a lot of energy to worry about other people's lifestyles... ;)


I think there are a couple of things that need to be considered here:

1. As Sport said, this is a forum with a common interest and there may be things said that one would definitely not consider saying in the presence of others. For example, someone may make comments about one of their relatives being obese and sick due to their poor eating habits, but they would probably not say that to the person. However, WE are often faced with people telling us how unhealthy it is to eat raw, etc. We come here to vent (as our young Dreamrawalwayz did) about things...everyone needs a place they can vent.

2. You used the term "ignorant" as saying, you've seen posts here where people say others are ignorant for their dietary choices. Well, I think that "ignorant" and "ignorance" for some reason has been given a negative connoctation. I know in the Black community, if you call someone "ignant" it's like fighting words because it somehow implies that person is dumb or something. But we all know that in reality, ignorant simply means that the person doesn't have knowledge about a particular thing. I'm ignorant to how heart surgery is performed because I'm not a heart surgeon.

Most of our society is ignorant to the fact that it is their poor eating habits that is causing all/most of their ailments. Many people seem to think that it's from...I don't even know...like it just fell out of the sky and landed on them due to fate. We're definitely not taught that if we eat and eat and eat the wrong foods that we stress out our organs and not to mention slow down our digestive system and inturn, end up with a swollen colon and end up being auto-intoxicated, etc.

So, it is ignorance...we were ALL ignorant and oblivious to these things before we learned of and most importantly, ACCEPTED and RECEIVED the message that eating raw and living foods is best for our overall health. I also think that we use the term "judged" very lightly. My mother-in-law doesn't like the fact that we homeschool and she has made it known. I can look at it two ways...1. She is meddling and "judging" us for our decision or 2. She is just a concerned grandma who really does mean well, but is "ignorant" to the benefits of homeschooling. I have chosen to view it from the latter point to avoid ill feelings towards her and becaue I truly feel that's what it is. Same with eating. Some people are genuinely concerned about us raw foodists because of what they've learned about "healthy" eating/living and they wonder if we are going to get all that we need (protein, calcium, etc.) and if we're getting noticably thin, they get alarmed. All of that is good reason, and if they are "ignorant" to the benefits of the raw diet and the fact that it's healthy and that we will lose weight and then regain it to our body's ideal weight.

So again, we all do it ("judge") so maybe we all just need to learn how to suck it up and drive on and realize that when one finger points at someone else, three more are pointing back at us...when we judge, we are judged.