Any unschoolers out there??

[tinystrawberry]

I know there's homeschoolers, but is there any unschoolers?

[pdx kris]

What are unschoolers? Children with no schooling at all, or is it a style of schooling?

[Rawkinlocs]

Pdx,

I copied this blurb from Sandra Dodd's website:
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/definition.html
=====
From a longer Q&A article on getting into college by Alison McKee, here is Alison's clarification on what unschooling is and isn't:

Q: What is unschooling?
A: Unschooling is a term that the late John Holt coined in the late ‘70's to describe learning that is based on a child's interests and needs. Unschooling does not begin with a parent's notion of what is important to learn and then turn the choices of how to learn the content over to a child. Rather, it begins with the child's natural curiosity and expands from there. Unschooling is not "instruction free" learning. If a child wants to learn to read, an unschooling parent may offer instruction by providing help with decoding, reading to the child, and giving the child ample opportunity to encounter words. If the child is uninterested in these supports, the parent backs off until the child asks for help. The most important thing about the unschooling process is that the child is in charge of the learning, not the adult. Unschoolers often do no traditional school work, yet they do learn traditional subject matter. They learn it as a natural extension of exploring their own personal interests.

Q: Is Eclectic or interest-led learning the same as unschooling?
A: If the terms "Eclectic" and "interest-led" learning describe homeschooling practices which put the child's learning needs before parental notions of what is important to learn, then the term "unschooling" applies. However, if "Eclectic" homeschooling simply means using multiple teaching methods, then Eclectic homeschooling is not unschooling.

I also think this interview with Sandra Dodd may be interesting:
http://sandradodd.com/interview

------------

Tinystrawberry - we tried unschooling, but I don't think I was fully ready to let go of ALL of my ingrained schooling mentality and neither was my husband. So now, we're doing kind of a "relaxed" homeschooling. I think I just need to learn more about unschooling before I make a decision as to whether or not we can do it. I have a lot of fears about it but at the same time, I believe it's a great thing - I'm just not completely ready to fully embrace it.

I read somewhere you're 15, correct? Are you deschooled/unschooled? If so, that's great! I'd love to possibly correspond with you via email or right here in this thread if that's most comfortable for you about your experiences. I have a 15 year old son who I really believed unschooling would be the best approach for him, but again, those hang-ups and fears keep creeping in!

Oh...and there are a few other unschooling parents on this board - Rawmommie and Angelandarose are two I distinctly remember off the top of my head.

[vgloveforlife]

I am unschooling my 6 year old right now and she loves it. I think it really is the best way to learn!

[Pixie]

I've been unschooling my boys, 10 and 11, since they were born. It's funny, people who know we homeschool have often asked me if my boys get to take the summer off. I always tell them no, we just learn all the time (me included!). We don't have time we seperate out for school/learning, we just make it a natural part of our everyday lives. This has really worked great for us so far. We are about to start a new curriculum, though, because I just want to make sure we cover everything, now that they're getting a little older. It will still be something they do when they want to, and they will be able to go at their own pace, and more importantly, it's something they're now ready for and excited about.

I really think kids (and adults) retain a lot more when they're learning about something they're interested in. So when my lads show an interest in something, I facilitate their exploration of it. That's what I focus on - creating an environment where they can explore whatever they want to. It really keeps them motivated to learn more. And learning doesn't become toil and drudgery, like I remember it being for me when I was in school.

[tinystrawberry]

vgloveforlife- i agree with you, i think it's the best and most natural way to learn!

Rawkinlocs- yes, i am 15 :D i was homeschooled until 6th grade, and then i wanted to go to public school for some reason :rolleyes: a year of that was enough! i currently go to a private "hippy/alternative" school (www.upattinas.org), this is my third year. i do enjoy the people and the enviorment, but i think i would benefit a lot more with unschooling. i enjoy learning things that I want to learn about, not things that people think i need to learn about. i am very interested in health and this forum has taught me a lot about it.

Pixie - "I really think kids (and adults) retain a lot more when they're learning about something they're interested in. So when my lads show an interest in something, I facilitate their exploration of it. That's what I focus on - creating an environment where they can explore whatever they want to. "

I think that as well. creating an environment like that is so great, you sound like an awesome parent!! :)

[greeninloanageles1]

I plan to unschool my son too. I just need to talk my teacher husband into it (the funny thing is I have an Elementary School and Art Education degrees too!.)

[Imani]

We are 13 years no walls, nontraditional schooling. I heard of unhomeschooling about seven years ago from a friend in my HOUSE group. HOME ORIENTATED UNIQUE SCHOOLING EDUCATION. I believe this is the acronym.
Well, 4 years ago I decided to get in the car with the four little ones a go across the country to different conferences to find out about unschooling. I was confused about what she was doing. I thought of her as noble and intelligent. All I saw from my pioneering friend was her kids did not read or know math. They were loving well behaved, helpful, loves to cook and make things beautiful, and mine were too, I couldn't figure out how she was o.k. with just that. I prided myself on my early readers and my math quizers for fun. Now my kids were forever asking to go to school, hers were not. Everytime I would send them they wanted to come home in less than two weeks. But being a former teacher, I was a whip cracking momma.
I learned so much from the journey of free education, not money, but through living, all around us. I saw happy intelligent kids, innovative. Life is what you make it by living and doing, and being. I wanted that. So now we do that. Some of my kids love workbooks, some like to make their own books, charts, etc... we create what we need, use what is there that we need,and just love learning with out whip cracking, well not too much whip cracking. We crack whips about chores mostly :D
My homeschooling friend kids academically can do what my children do now just as well, and we all started at different times in our lives when it was right for us as individuals. We all take Latin at U of Chicago. They are bright, intelligent, loving, creative, children doing their own thing, making life how they want to it yo be lived. We can appreciate this together.

[Joyful Mary]

As Mathematics requires much repetition in order to learn and retain it, how do unschooled children acquire these skills? I've homeschooled our six children unconventionally and am interested in hearing more of 'unschooling'. Thanks so much.

[Imani]

You can do repetition in unschooling, it is done with purpose and without forced pain. I personally feel some forcing is apart of life. My son is 7 he is learning his times table, and he plays them on the violin, he sings them, he races my husband. He loves that the most. he studies them everyday. Can you say these within 5 seconds, now we are down to one second an equation. He sees he can, and the SAT board suggest they know them that fast by junior year of high school. Life is what you make it. Use your imagination is what unschooling says to me. do it while you fly fish, I met someone once and that is how he did he studies, while he fly fished.
imani

[vgloveforlife]

Math doesn't have to require a lot of repitition except for the math you use naturally in your daily life. I happen to find memorizing certain mathematic equations completely useless and it makes math a tedious chore which it shouldn't be.
Math is absolutely everywhere you look. Children will learn math with real life situations. Although they can get a little extra from cuisnare rods, board games, computer games etc but they will learn math whether we want them to or not. My 6 yr old can add and divide, not on paper, but in her head and in a real life situation. She can do it easily but if I asked her to do division on paper she wouldn't have a clue which is okay because math is all about being able to use it in daily life.

If you want more information, John Holt's books are great!

[vgloveforlife]

I love this list:

http://borntoexplore.org/unschool/math.htm

[Rawmommie]

My kids have been unschooled since I took them out of school in 1st and 2nd grade. They are 12, 11, & 6 now and the older two do some more *schoolish* stuff, but I still consider myself an unschooler at heart. We love life and learn from everything around us. What we aren't exposed to, we look up and explore!

[Rawkinlocs]

Man...you unschooling parents are so beautiful and inspiring to me!

Vgloveforlife, I LOVE that math link you shared and some of the other things I read from that same site! Thank you for that link!

I do have a question for you moms...I notice that a lot of times I see a lot of reference to little ones being unschooled. But what about teens? I don't mean teens who were unschooled at a young age and raised into that, but those who were schooled up until teen years and now you are considering unschooling.

Any ideas for me and my 13 and 15 year olds? I can see so much how this all makes sense, but must admit once again, I get scared thinking about how my son is almost of adult age, college, etc.

[Imani]

That I believe is my mantra. Since my kids have always been homeschooled, and even before I found this thing called unschooling. I am an unschooler at heart. I have decussion after discussion in all forms of possible ways to discuss, about you create the world you live in. He may need time to see this for himself, abut I ask the children to create what they may want to learn about. Or since he is close to college age what does he need to get into the college of his choice,a nd create a path to get this for himself. what does he need to know to go to college X. What score does he need to get on the SAT to get into College X and shoot for that specific goal. Have him research what he wants in life, even he amy change course later. But go after what you feel you want now, and when you obtain it set another goal for your self and decide what you want how you wnat it and go for it. That is a lot of learning, much of what is not taught in school. But it is life, like is abotu determining what you wnat and creating this for your self, like being raw. It is a journey, see the journey and create the journey for himself. It looks like what he sees for himself.
Imani

[Rawkinlocs]

Beautifully said, Imani! Thank you :)

Anyone else care to share? Pretty pleeeease? :D

[vgloveforlife]

Rawkinlocs- I don't have much experience unschooling a teen or one that has been touched by school learning, but I do hope everything works out for you if you decide to do this! If your kids are interested and have the desire to learn I would definitly go for it. It is a wonderful way of learning....no pressure, no time limits, no grades etc. and most of all they will be learning for themselves, for their own enrichment, because they are interested in something not because they aim to please a teacher who says a certain subject is important and must be learned.

[caramba]

"Natural Learners" here...of 5 & 3.5 y.o so early days yet! Not sure what labels to put on my kids learning but - hey - they've been learning quite nicely on their own steam since they were born...

Rawkinlocs...I'm sure there are lots of resources out there for unschoolers in the USA - though I dont' have any specific links for you - and no doubt there'd be HS'ers with teenage kids that could share more experiences with you. We have a couple of yahoo groups here for Australian unschoolers/natural learners (and all other kinds of homeschoolers!). Would it help to remember how they learnt as little ones? ie just followed their natural curiousity and ended up in all kinds of fascinating places? My 5 y.o is into jousting (medieval history) & looking at how snakes eat (comparing skeletons etc...)!

[Chickadee]

Rawkinlocs-

For starting Unschooling in the teen years, a great book to read is The Teenage Liberation Handbook: How to Quit School and Get a Real Life and Education (http://www.amazon.com/Teenage-Liberation-Handbook-School-Education/dp/0962959170/sr=1-1/qid=1163289432/ref=sr_1_1/002-6806627-8772834?ie=UTF8&s=books) by Grace Llewellyn. She used to be a teacher in the public and private school systems, and she give great insight about the unschooling journey. I got the book at my local library.

A good site with lots of info, and links is http://www.unschooling.com/.

And if Christianity plays a part in your educational decisions, then
Christian Unschooling : Growing Your Children in the Freedom of Christ (http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Unschooling-Growing-Children-Freedom/dp/1891400223/sr=1-1/qid=1163291081/ref=sr_1_1/002-6806627-8772834?ie=UTF8&s=books) by Teri J Brown and Elissa M Wahl is a book to check out.

I just started to "officially and purposefully" Unschool my son (13 yrs. old), after homeschooling him from the beginning. To be honest, it's been an adjustment for me and him, but I've seen such a difference in his self esteem and love for learning, that I'm glad we unschool.

HTH. :)

[Rawkinlocs]

Thank you Vgloveforlife, Caramba and Chickadee for the great responses!

Chickadee, I will look into both of those books and we are Christian so both books should be very helpful! I've visited unschooling.com as well as a couple of others.

My children have been homeschooled MOST of their lives...well, my older two have gone to public school for a couple of years each, but the younger ones have been homeschooled from the beginning.

[Rawmommie]

Cherie, we've talked about this a few times, but I'm not sure I've helped much! :p

I have heard nothing but raving wonderful things about the Teenage Liberation Handbook.

If your kids have been homeschooled most of their lives, I would think it would be easier to let go and unschool now, knowing that they have a great deal of knowledge already...and will get more, just in a different way! I agree that letting them decide what they are going to do in the future and start making goals and learning things that will steer them in that direction would be perfect!

You know, my husband dropped out of highschool is freshman year (younger than your 15 year old, I think) and is a VERY intelligent, wel spoken man with a great career that suits him perfectly. Everything he has learned (and it's been a LOT) has been on his own and he has retained it b/c he wanted (or needed) to learn it! We are all that way, right? I know so much more about history than I ever learned in school, I would venture to say I didn't learn much of what I know today in school at all! ;)

Now, I will be honest, when they were little, it was unschooling all the way...play, explore, play some more. BUT, as they have gotten older, we have spent a little more time learning about writing, math (which they love), & a few things that they might not be exposed to, not being in school. I think it's important for them to practice these skills (writing is a big one). Some unschoolers might not even consider me an unschooler anymore, but we find a good balance. For the most part though, I know my kids and understand how they work. When they want to learn something or know something, they just DO IT. It doesn't take 12 years of practice and repetition, just the intrest and it can be learned so much quicker.

I believe that much of the repetition in school is b/c they children are NOT interested and not ready to learn some of the skills they are teaching. It's important to try and strike a balance with everything though, and you have to find what works for your family. I found out quickly that unlike many unschoolers, my kids weren't being exposed to enough (I attribute some of this to living out in the country) so I have to actively seek out the info that they wouldn't be exposed to otherwise and strike up the discussion!

enough rambling!

:rolleyes:

[Chickadee]

There are as many ways to Unschool as there are ways to be Raw. It's about finding what works for you and your family, and may even be different for each child in the family.

In The Teenage Liberation Handbook she explains how the teenager may not be comfortable with unschooling at first, because they’re trained to judge their performance and self worth by grades. Actually, parents, too, are used to judging by grades, and so it can be hard for both parent and child. The thing to remember is that most curriculums are set up so that the student memorizes a certain set of facts, and regurgitates them back on command, but that's not necessarily learning.

Before I get too preachy about the subject, I'll just give you my story.

My son has never gone to public school, and when he was little he was totally unschooled (didn't know that's what it was called). We played games, counting games, memory games, word games, etc. Then it was time for 1st grade, and I thought he must need a set curriculum because I’m home “schooling”. So I bought one, and at first he liked it, it was new and exciting. But with a set curriculum comes set rules...sit still, don't daydream, don't get up numerous times, don't talk or sing or hum to yourself, don’t, don’t, don’t.

As the years went by he began to hate school, not learning, just school, and it was such a battle to get him to sit down and do school work. I also started to notice things, like he would get A's on his Grammar tests, but when we'd play Mad Libs, he wouldn't know what an adjective or adverb was, and I'd think how can that be. I noticed that when he was interested in something he would search out information on the subject and learn all about it himself, and that that knowledge stayed with him, but what he supposedly learned from school last week was long gone. In looking at each passing year’s curriculum I began to notice that we were covering the same information over and over again just presented slightly different, and sometimes not even. I was as frustrated, bored, and disgusted as my son was.

Then in conversation with another homeschool mom/friend I heard the term unschooling. I got on the computer, Googled it, and couldn’t believe so many people were experiencing the same things I was with my son. Hallelujah! I wasn’t crazy or a bad mother!

I decided I needed to learn more about it and how to do it, so I read everything I could find on the subject…books, websites, chats…actually I unschooled myself on the subject of unschooling :D . And I thought back to my young self, where might I be if I had been encouraged in the things that interested me during my “school” years, instead of being forced to meet the ever changing "standards of education". I spoke to my mom, who spent her teenage years “cutting” school, because she couldn’t stand the confinement of it. Where would her life have led had she been supported and allowed to be herself and explore her God-given interests. Unschooling just spoke so true to my spirit.

And so we started unschooling this year. It’s been an adjustment for both of us. At first he felt like he was floundering without those weekly tests & grades, but I just kept reassuring him (and myself). I pointed out to him how he has always been self-guided in his true learning, and that I wasn’t abandoning him. It’s my job to make sure he has the necessary opportunities to learn the things he’s interested in, whether that requires classes, lectures, books, mentors, or whatever. And he has discovered that there is a whole wide world of things to be learned and he is capable of learning whatever he chooses, using that knowledge for the betterment and enjoyment of his life.

Now that’s education!

[caramba]

Great to hear of your experiences Chickadee. Thanks for sharing :)

[Rawkinlocs]

Thank you Karen! And for the record, you helped me a LOT - I guess I just still have a lot of ideals I haven't totally let go of yet as well as my husband which that kinda makes it difficult too. I think the balance you have found is great, especially if it is working for you. I know what you mean about your husband being a self-taught person...mine is the same way. They labelled him "special ed" when he was in high school and he ended up leaving before graduating 12th grade and going into the army. Now, he's one of the most brilliant men I know - he has a very nice job working in the IT department for the State of WA and everything he learned, he learned on his own. Lot's of people with degrees in the field don't know half of what he knows about computers and programming. He just learned what he loves...hmmm...

Chickadee, that is a beautiful story!! My son used to love learning and after reading your story and thinking about him, he still does. But like your son, he hates school...school work that he is forced to do. Some would look at that and say, "Well, we all have things we don't like to do but we gotta do it (i.e. going to work everyday)". But who would like going to a job that they hate...hate their boss, hate what they do, etc. I LOVE my work which is teaching raw classes. I never dread having to teach a class...I get pumped and then after it's over, I want to do another one right away!

My husband loves his job and I never hear him complain that he doesn't want to go in...but in the past when he worked certain other jobs, he did just that.

So, I guess it's all a lesson, even with us adults...we all need to be led and driven by what our interests and what we love - even when it comes to learning. I am learning...I am inspired by you...ALL of you! :)

Thank you!

[Rawmommie]

bumping up

[Ariannah]

As Mathematics requires much repetition in order to learn and retain it, how do unschooled children acquire these skills? I've homeschooled our six children unconventionally and am interested in hearing more of 'unschooling'. Thanks so much.
Actually it depends on the learner. Interest, need, and application drives the retention of things learned, for me, not contrived repetition. I have a favorite (long) personal anecdote about how repetition of a subject I clearly had no interest and very little aptitude in did not ameliorate the learning - but that's another story for another time.

If we step back and objectively ask ourselves the question "Why do we need to learn (math, language arts, Social Studies, Science, the arts, physical education)?" I mean, after all, we are learning math "for" something right? Not just to please a teacher? Do we need math in our lives? Of course we do! My own younger two (unschooled) have far greater math skills than I did at their age. They have never been "drilled". They need mathematical skills because numerical manipulation is a part of life. And the process of learning just continues.

In my own non-net life, I tend to not use the term "unschooling". I soften the blow by saying "homeschooling" or "eclectic homeschooling, because it's a word that has fewer negative assumptions associated with it.

Too many people erroniously associate "unschooling" with just blowin' about in the wind, living a life completely devoid of structure, and allowing children to just take over an exhausted doormat slave parent's life.

Yes, in unschooling, there is still guidance, supervision and (gasp) structure (these things are all part of life). We just don't have the narrowly defined version of structure associated with "lessons". Unschooling is not unparenting, and yes, sometimes a parent's decisions do veto a child's desires ;) For instance, the bus is coming, it won't wait, so therefore we choose to get to the bus stop in time rather than build a snowman in the middle of the street (grin).

[trinity082482]

I thought school was the law not an option.

[Rawmommie]

Laws are different in each state. Was that really a question or are you being snarky? Just wondering.

I follow the laws in my state, I record 1000 hours of study a school year, if that answers your question.

[shine72]

Trinity - Homeschooling (and unschooling falls under that umbrella), is perfectly legal in all 50 states. Each state has it's own different requirements, but it's legal everywhere. And don't let the term unschooling fool you. In a typical day of unschooling in our house here are just some of the things that get covered naturally by my children:

art
music
reading
oral narration
writing
math
nutrition
home ec
life skills
keyboarding skills
word processing
some computer programming (or I should say reprogramming since they rewrite the games)

and that is just off of the top of my head. None of it is forced (well, sometimes I have to remind ds that if he truly means what he says about wanting to graduate high school by 15-16 yrs of age and start college, than he should be getting hot on his math), and MUCH MORE is covered in a day than when I tried to do a structured "school day" with them. And there's NO fighting them on ANY of it anymore. What a change and blessing THAT has been. And that's just a snapshot of a day, it doesn't even cover a full day!:D

I'm not trying to harp on ya hon. It's just you sounded a little confused, and I wanted to help clarify for you, k? :)

[trinity082482]

Laws are different in each state. Was that really a question or are you being snarky? Just wondering.

I follow the laws in my state, I record 1000 hours of study a school year, if that answers your question.


A question :)

[Rawmommie]

Trinity, I hope we answered it for you then!

I had to ask about the snarky thing b/c I'm used to people occasionally attacking my choice to homeschool. I think it is very difficult for an outsider looking in, to see how different learning at home is from learning in a school setting. I know this b/c being schooled in the public school system myself, I had no clue how different it would be (and it was wonderous to see my children unfold in homeschooling!)

[Ariannah]

I thought school was the law not an option.
Education is the law, not an option.

Neglect of one's childrens educational needs is of course not only morally wrong, it's a crime. Thankfully, in North America, we have a myriad of options to meet those needs.

As to Laws:
Every year, I am accountable (on paper, with my legal signature) twice per year for each of my children. Once, to register them as homeschoolers, and once at the end of the year to report their progress in each subject.

Unschoolers can (and do) do this.
Check out youtube.com and look for daynaleighmartin. She is an advocate of children's independent learning without school.

There are also Sudbury Model Schools out there (google for those I don't have any references off hand), with tuitions of $5K or so, which are built on unschooling principles. Our way of learning is legitimized in our country.

[Ariannah]

The term "unschooling" allows people to leap to far too many erroneous conclusions than I have time to correct. So we use "homeschooling".

Just because there are not piles of thick textbooks and heaps of busywork in their repertoire does NOT mean that no learning and progress is going on.

Unschooling is not "doing nothing". It is not "uneducating". It is learning in a way that respects children's innate needs and drive. They learn for the sheer love of it, not because someone tells them "I know it's boring, but you have to....".

Human beings learn. That is a law of nature. It's how they grow, it's how they thrive. Learning is part of the drive that keeps us alive.

[Ariannah]

Trinity, I hope we answered it for you then!

I had to ask about the snarky thing b/c I'm used to people occasionally attacking my choice to homeschool. I think it is very difficult for an outsider looking in, to see how different learning at home is from learning in a school setting. I know this b/c being schooled in the public school system myself, I had no clue how different it would be (and it was wonderous to see my children unfold in homeschooling!)
It's also such freedom! Unschooling (and homeschooling to some degree) is about trust. Trust that children can and do, and are even willing and eager to learn the things they need to do.

We (the generic "we") tend to not trust that, simply because our own agendas, and that which we as dutiful, unquestioning members of society, are often told NOT to trust. We are told to fear that learning won't happen, so we panic and are often hostile to ideas which seem to directly contradict what we are told all our lives. Our ways of schooling (unschoolers and homeschoolers alike) are often attacked because people are afraid of that which they don't understand.

Much like with raw food. I know and hear of many raw foodists who are sick of defending the protein question, the calcium question, the "won't you get this or that deficiency?" and even get asked if THAT way of eating is legal LOL - I tell ya, big bro is everywhere ;-)

Our younger children have never been told, nor been given the impression, that learning is UNfun. They learn stuff, in their own initiative, that had I been asked to do it at their ages, I'd have had a screaming fit and dug in my heels. But they learn because learning is fun. A day without new challenges is B-o-r-i-n-g with a capital "B". So we just continue on.

Think of it this way:
Since school curriculums are supposedly built around consultation with top-notch child development PhD experts who determine readiness of grasping certain concepts by a certain age, shouldn't it be common sense that children WILL grasp that knowledge and show an interest in it?

I know it to be true for my own children. Trust me, it took a LONG time of soul-searching, and personal research, to come to this level of trust. Most of us don't make these kind of decisions lightly.

[justinesmith]

I think the day "they" make school a requirement, I'll move to a different country! :) I love learning about the history of public education. It was intitially developed so bosses (homeschooled kids) could have educated employees. Public school was only for the kids who weren't lucky enough to be homeschooled. It's interesting that our public schools still tend to generate employees and not thinkers (this is a general statement of course). I am all for child lead learning ~ I wouldn't care a hoot about quantum physics if I had been "required" to learn it. It's so great what we can do for our kids! :D

[shine72]

Ariannah - Thanks for posting the youtube info. She also has a website and a blog. Cool beans.:cool:

[trinity082482]

Trinity, I hope we answered it for you then!

I had to ask about the snarky thing b/c I'm used to people occasionally attacking my choice to homeschool. I think it is very difficult for an outsider looking in, to see how different learning at home is from learning in a school setting. I know this b/c being schooled in the public school system myself, I had no clue how different it would be (and it was wonderous to see my children unfold in homeschooling!)


No problem. I would never attack someones choice.. I personally wish our generation would let parents raise their own kids instead of getting involved. ;)

[Adagio Breezes]

A few questions for those of you who unschool: do you wait for your child to decide to learn about something before you "teach" it to them?

Are you concerned that one day they will appear ignorant (or even stupid to some unkind people) because they never learned something that other kids learn in school?

Lets say your son never chooses to learn about, oh, I don't know, the Great Depression. Lets say he's 20 and talking to a friend.

Friend: "I went to my grandma's house last week and she had a huge drawer full of plastic yogurt containers. She never throws anything away. My mom says it's because she lived through the Depression."
Your son: "Wow. Your grandma had depression? I had a friend who was depressed. How she's doing now?"
Friend: "What? No, she lived through the Depression, you know the Great Depression? Black Friday?"
Your son: "Sorry man, never heard about it."
Friend: "It was a time period from the late 1920's to the mid 1930's. The stock market crashed and 25% of the American population lost their jobs and were living in poverty. Didn't you read about it in school?"
Your son: No.
Friend: Oh,... you were homeschooled, right? *starts thinking your son is weird ("how could he not know that?") and making unfair assumptions about his intelligence and your teaching ability because some people are mean like that.*

Ok, that was a long example! I remember reading about a deceased celebrity. Someone who knew him said something like "He was a smart guy, but there were certain things he just didn't know. It was weird, I think it was because he was homeschooled."

[jrose_lee]

I didn't get a chance to read all the posts, but we are an unschooling family. Just wanted to reply :D

[shine72]

A few questions for those of you who unschool: do you wait for your child to decide to learn about something before you "teach" it to them?

Are you concerned that one day they will appear ignorant (or even stupid to some unkind people) because they never learned something that other kids learn in school?

Lets say your son never chooses to learn about, oh, I don't know, the Great Depression. Lets say he's 20 and talking to a friend.

Friend: "I went to my grandma's house last week and she had a huge drawer full of plastic yogurt containers. She never throws anything away. My mom says it's because she lived through the Depression."
Your son: "Wow. Your grandma had depression? I had a friend who was depressed. How she's doing now?"
Friend: "What? No, she lived through the Depression, you know the Great Depression? Black Friday?"
Your son: "Sorry man, never heard about it."
Friend: "It was a time period from the late 1920's to the mid 1930's. The stock market crashed and 25% of the American population lost their jobs and were living in poverty. Didn't you read about it in school?"
Your son: No.
Friend: Oh,... you were homeschooled, right? *starts thinking your son is weird ("how could he not know that?") and making unfair assumptions about his intelligence and your teaching ability because some people are mean like that.*

Ok, that was a long example! I remember reading about a deceased celebrity. Someone who knew him said something like "He was a smart guy, but there were certain things he just didn't know. It was weird, I think it was because he was homeschooled."


Okay, considering they are taking more and more of the history I learned out of the textbooks each year, I don't think there's really too big a danger of something like that happening. I'm not even being snarky, and to me, that's the scary part. They cover more on things like Marilyn Monroe or Elvis half the time anymore than Abe Lincoln and George Washington.

And no, I really don't worry about things like that. Each of my children has their unique things that they are interested in. I'd rather them be overly skilled in one thing than have next to no skills in everything. HTH!:D

[jrose_lee]

A few questions for those of you who unschool: do you wait for your child to decide to learn about something before you "teach" it to them?

Are you concerned that one day they will appear ignorant (or even stupid to some unkind people) because they never learned something that other kids learn in school?

Lets say your son never chooses to learn about, oh, I don't know, the Great Depression. Lets say he's 20 and talking to a friend.

Friend: "I went to my grandma's house last week and she had a huge drawer full of plastic yogurt containers. She never throws anything away. My mom says it's because she lived through the Depression."
Your son: "Wow. Your grandma had depression? I had a friend who was depressed. How she's doing now?"
Friend: "What? No, she lived through the Depression, you know the Great Depression? Black Friday?"
Your son: "Sorry man, never heard about it."
Friend: "It was a time period from the late 1920's to the mid 1930's. The stock market crashed and 25% of the American population lost their jobs and were living in poverty. Didn't you read about it in school?"
Your son: No.
Friend: Oh,... you were homeschooled, right? *starts thinking your son is weird ("how could he not know that?") and making unfair assumptions about his intelligence and your teaching ability because some people are mean like that.*

Ok, that was a long example! I remember reading about a deceased celebrity. Someone who knew him said something like "He was a smart guy, but there were certain things he just didn't know. It was weird, I think it was because he was homeschooled."


Hmmm.....it could just be me, but I know NOTHING about history, science or math. And I got straight A's all through school, graduated with honors and have a bachelors degree from a private college. I honestly feel that just because you go to school doesn't mean you'll learn. People choose to remember the facts. I was just a good test taker I guess. I learned the info and let it go right out of my head. I think that I am a smart person and capable or learning, but school (or a formal type of education) didn't help me learn about specific things.

The thing about unschooling........ the point of it (in my opinion) is that a child LEARNS to LOVE LEARNING. That is the entire point. They are not forced into it. They do not have to ever feel like learning is a chore. To them, learning is LIFE. It is something natural, something fun. Not something to groan about or avoid. So...since that is the case, they will learn much more than an average child. And love it the whole time!

As long as they LOVE to LEARN, then they will be ready to learn at all times and ready to enjoy it! They will be cabable! To take your example of the depression...

An unschooled kid would realize, "Wow...this depression thing sounds interesting. Can't believe I never learned about that! I'm going straight to the library to check out a book or get on the internet!"

And you know what....they will learn ten times more than someone who learned about it in school. Because it was brought to their attention and they CHOSE to learn about it.

Ever realize how much you learn about something when YOU chose it (not a teacher or other?) For example....how much do you know about being raw, raw foods, raw recipes? That was your choice. Something that interests you.

Anyway, I just think it is so beautiful and natural. A child who loves to learn is capable of learning anything. You don't have to worry about them not knowing "certain things". If it becomes important for them to know it, they will have no problem learning it because learning will come so easily to them.

It is the children with formal education and school children that I see who don't want to learn and don't want to read etc. They feel learning is a chore. Learning has been robbed of all joy for them. And who can blame them.....sitting at a desk all day filling out meaningless dittos and busy work.

Sigh. Sorry, I've gone on long enough! :D Hope that helps!

[Rawmommie]

Great post, I agree! :)

I EXPOSE my children to things. Unschoolers don't just let their children figure everything out on their own. They make their life rich and full of information, not just let them sit around wondering what the world is about. I would go as far as saying they are exposed to MORE history and learning b/c there aren't time tables, deadlines, & focusing on testing like there are in the schools.

As for me, I didn't retain much from school. I was also a A & B student, but have learned more as an adult teaching my children than I EVER did in school.

I have had conversations about why we learn certain things with my children along the same lines of what you are talking about...so that WE (me included) aren't ignorant people. My children want to know about the world, they want to be "educated" and so they are.

BUT, I've never worried about my children's knowledge at all. The neighbors (same age as my boys and schooled) came over and started talking about 911 and how it was something to do with god and had NO IDEA where/when/how it happened. Just started talking about buildings collapsing...my children were shocked that they did not even have a basic understanding of what had happened.

I will say that there are lots of different unschoolers, just as there are lots of different homeschoolers. I'm an unschooler at heart(& unschooled them completely when they were little), but we do "do schoolwork" now and are a little more structured than some unschoolers...nothing like the school system does though.

[ladypeace82]

Has anyone on here unschooled their kids and now their children are over 20 years old? I'd be interested to know how they are doing. Did they go to college? Are they in really great jobs? Did they have any studying issues if they decided to go to college and be "schooled"?

I'm just interested in general so if your child did have a problem in any area I would really like to hear the truth about it.

I am unschooling myself about unschooling. :) just like jrose_lee was talking about. Learning about something that I want to learn about on my own. :)

[Rawmommie]

I don't have grown unschoolers myself, but there are quite a few out there now, you can find them if you look! You might find some info at unschooling.info but I haven't been there for eons, I'm not sure who is still around. There is a pretty well known unschooler, Sandra Dodd, who has grown children that were unschooled. You can do a google on her and find more info (FYI, she considers herself a radical unschooler)

[Firicia]

Cool thread. I have a question.

Ok so say you unschool, what happens when they are 17/18 and want to go to college? Do they still "graudate"? How do they go to college or university?

You know I think this is so great, I really wish I could have done it, maybe then I wouldn't have skipped so much school:o

[northernstars]

I unschooled my boys and they all graduated! We used many activities as classes! If you look at the lists available for the classes you will see there is a wide variety from which to choose. Choose the ones that best fit the child and are the closest to the topic the state require. We also used Boy Scouts, Young Marines, Explorer Scouts and the merit badges and activities to help meet the state's requirements.

[Mialsse]

We're unschoolers :D

[justinesmith]

We're unschoolers :D

I am planning on unschooling my beautiful girls. Do you like it??? Anything you wish was done differently?? LMK :D

[Rawmommie]

Do you like it???

Absolutely! I wouldn't have done it if I didn't like it. ;) I have a wonderful relationship with my children b/c of having them home with me, and I believe they have a different outlook on life in general from unschooling. They question everything.

As they have gotten older, we have done more *schoolish* stuff b/c honestly, unschooling is HARD. Some people think you just sit back and let learning happen, but really, you have to constantly be exposing them to new things and new information. As my boys have gotten older, it has been easier to find that information in texts, etc. but we still have the unschooling spirit.