I feel bad for even asking...

[dreamrawalwz]

Ok, I've been raw off and on for 3 years, almost 4. Every winter, well, around August I went off 100% raw to 100% cooked. This year so far I havn't, but it's REALLY catching up with me!! I'm thinking of going high raw on purpose so I don't slip up and go BAM on my face! Each time I slipped up for months I was eating microwaved veggies, canned beans, cooked whole grains, lean meats, ect. I was adddicted. Now I honestly think I do have control over this and if it's a conscious decision that I'll keep it mostly raw and just have steamed veggies for dinner because well...it's COLD and I want some more variety in the winter. I don't know if this is excusing it or what :( I feel guilty for thinking about it, but I think doing this is better than completely screwing up one day! If I find myself getting off raw too much, craving things, using condiments, spices, ect. or eating the wrong things then I'll go right back to 100%. Help, I feel like I ned someone to be able to back me up here. I know this is a 100% raw board and I advocate that myself, but ahh...it's hard to explain. I know in spring I'd go right back to 100% if I did this...I don't know what to do! I've been craving asparagus, green beans, sweet potatoes, and artichoke hearts, even beans like crazy lately! Stupid weather....help?

[Vandy]

why don't you replace those condiments with the fruits in season? That's what makes it through winter for me! I get addicted to persimmons, pears, grapes, dates, bananas, papayas, mamey, citrus fruits, etc! You can find just as much in the winter, but because all of the juicy summer fruits that leave with the season, people seem to think they have no options and fall back. Not to mention veggies are ALWAYS availible. It is harder during the winter time, but eat with the seasons...isn't that what we're supposed to do ;)

[dreamrawalwz]

why don't you replace those condiments with the fruits in season? That's what makes it through winter for me! I get addicted to persimmons, pears, grapes, dates, bananas, papayas, mamey, citrus fruits, etc! You can find just as much in the winter, but because all of the juicy summer fruits that leave with the season, people seem to think they have no options and fall back. Not to mention veggies are ALWAYS availible. It is harder during the winter time, but eat with the seasons...isn't that what we're supposed to do ;)

I need to stay organic and I don't have many options fruit wise :( Only apples, pears, a few raspberries, and pineapple. I can get beets, sweet potatoes, green beans, ect. organic though. I know you can eat them raw, but I think it's the warmth I'm looking for...I don't know.

[honeybee joy]

asparagus, green beans, sweet potatoes, and artichoke hearts, even beans

Have you thought about coating some of these things in olive oil and dehydrating?

[dreamrawalwz]

Have you thought about coating some of these things in olive oil and dehydrating?

No I havn't. I don't like olive oil, ewww (IMO). Ugh, I sound just like those that I would tell "stop making excuses and just be raw!" I think having these thoughts/fights in my head is more stress than just eating the steamed veggies. When I say steamed I mean not fully cooked, but warmed and a tad softer than they are...

I think I need to plan to go off for a day and hop back on...you know how some say to "plan the binge" so you don't fall off the plan completely for a long time...I just don't know :(

[Dimond]

Put on the heat, bundle up in warm clothes and enjoy raw! :p

[honeybee joy]

It sounds like to me this is a emotional thing. You know....winter comes around and you start thinking about pumpkin spice lattes! lol I swear...I have yet to think up a mock pumpkin spice latte...but I will. I know that once I have what I think I want I think....hmmmm this was not as good as I thought it would be....then I get hooked. Try to make up fun raw versions!

[dreamrawalwz]

Put on the heat, bundle up in warm clothes and enjoy raw! :p

Haha I like you're style. My selection is SOOO limited that I'm SOO bored. Bored with food, bored with life, tired of being cold all the time, ect. I'll shut up now! Maybe I just need to talk this through and I'll wake up and be better tomorrow. I may have had baked sweet potato today (a little) b/c i had my mom warm them in the oven while I was on the way home from work. They were a little too hot, but eh...maybe that's fueling the cravings more. I think I'll be ok tomorrow as long as I don't fall into this trap!

[Dimond]

Do you make any recipes or just eat straight produce? Maybe you can spice things up by trying out some new meals. Also if you can afford to, get some ready-made snacks to add variety.

[dreamrawalwz]

I don't do well with recipies - too heavy for my stomach, can't do many of the ingredients, ect. I just eat straight produce. It may be an emotional thing, who knows. I think it's just comfort and warmth. Maybe habbit for this time of year.

[exurb]

each person needs to find what works for them, and best wishes to you.

better to ask and state your difficulties than just isolate yourself. I get the impression you're striving to be raw, so I don't see a problem from the board point of view.

Renee Loux Underkoffler (great raw chef) does quickly blanched/steamed veggies in her "raw" cuisine. Her book Living Cuisine is wonderful.

I always worry about those of us here with previous EDs. I hope you can relax, enjoy, do what works for you, and gives you the nutrition that you need.

[luckitri]

Yeah I don't do recipes well either but if you cut down the raw chili recipe to enough for one meal maybe the heat of the chili spice will warm you up and give you that comfort food for cold weather relief. As I recall, when I made it I did use a pot to heat it up but it went so quickly that I am sure that it was still raw - it barely got warm. Or, how about binging with herbal tea for warmth? I think you are doing great and merely giving voice to what many feel as the cold weather comes on.

[rawnora]

... and quick, before it's too late! Lol. Being raw is about being healthy, and it is far, far healthier for you to eat sub-optimal bridge foods like steamed veggies and unadorned cooked potatoes/yams than to push yourself so hard that you end up falling backwards.

In addition, you don't have to eat all organic. Even people who are very strict about always eating raw and organic can have atrocious diets. Organic is not as important as biological suitability, freshness and quality. All things being equal, organic is better but if eating organic limits your choices severely, it's going to be difficult to stay raw if you don't eat conventionally grown produce. Eating the kinds of foods you eat when you fall off the wagon is vastly more harmful than risking a few pesticide residues, even if they're there, which is not a given.

If a person can stay raw and be satisfied, then going 100% raw is fine. But if you're not satisfied, you need to add as many relatively harmless cooked foods back into your diet as it takes to satisfy you. It's very important, if you do this, that you NOT see it as backsliding. Eating these foods needn't lead to eating worse things. Draw the line for yourself. Pick a few designated, allowed cooked foods and don't eat anything other than those and raw foods. All of the foods you listed would be fine, except beans, which should be added only if there's a danger you'll eat pizza or pasta instead!

When the weather changes, the body goes through some adjustments. It has to divert some energy to that task, and we feel this in ways that we couldn't even describe if pressed. We call the feelings "cravings". When we were cooked we didn't think anything about eating hot soups, pasta, warm bread or other foods in the winter to "warm" us. Actually, they don't warm us at all, they rob us of our vitality. In any event, if a person responds to the feelings every year by eating these foods, a habit is formed that is very difficult to break. The good news is that it takes less time to break a bad habit than it did to form it! Adding the steamed veggies perhaps will allow you to get through this year without your annual backslide and then next year maybe you'll be able to get by on complex raw foods. Your main goal, imo, should be doing whatever it takes to keep you out of a full-scale spiraling backslide.

Hang in there. :)

Warmly,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[exurb]

thanks for your helpful and insightful post rawnora.

[Vandy]

I completely agree with rawnora, and dreamwaltz, who said these have to all be organic? Sweeeetie, you are speaking to a college student as well... I live very cheaply per week, and I don't always eat organic either, but the fruits I mentioned I can get non-organic, and they are hopefully/most likely not as highly sprayed as other conventional fruits, like persimmons for instance. I got a case the other day for 10$! That would be my advice to you b/c it has saved me money wise. Buy buy the case! Make a deal with the grocery manager, and they can sell you a case weekly for a discount price. I get about a case of organic lettuce and two other cases of fruit each week. Then you can pick out the other trinkets if you wish. This is what I have done. This week my two cases I ordered were persimmons and papayas, and b/c they had a special deal on organic bananas I got one as well. Voala, I am a college student living like a queen for 60$. How much are you working with? Last year I survived on 40$ a week with NO kitchen. It's possible. Reach deep, and just know that we can help you through. But if you decide to try and balance raw and cooked, you could become off balance. We are here to help encourage you through! :)

[dreamrawalwz]

Thank you Rawnora. I think the cravings have past, actually. Maybe they'll come again and I'll keep this in mind! I just had a thought....today was the one day I forgot to take my liquid vitamins and the day I've had the most intense cravings..maybe my body was lacking something? I'll just have to remember to take them from now on! I know for me if I don't have organic I'll get an almost instant migrane so I kind of feel trapped. I mean, I know it's good for my body, but it's limiting as well...

[sungoddess]

rawnora's posts always make me feel like someone has all the answers!

Dream, best of luck! It seems like you are making progress despite your struggle right now. You have been raw into this year longer than ever before. I think as long as its not a full backslide you are still moving forward. Maybe next year you will have gotten so far as to not need the "comfort" of cooked in the winter.

And because you say "comfort" and warmth, it IS a psychological attachment to certain foods. Which I think is OK for now, we can't expect to change like THAT, and in an instant. Everything takes time. Everything LASTING takes time and dedication. Ups and downs. I have problems with binge eating. I stay 100% raw, but stress eat, and eat in a frenzy. I also live in NYC with TONS of intense raw desserts. I just went to get raw vegan ice cream (cashews, coconut, agave, etc.), a pint, thinking I would be able to control myself when I got home. Then the frenzy began. I almost ate the whole pint when I just seriously old myself that - it would be there tomorrow!!! And I was able to stop... but not before I had stuffed myself. I am trying to take it one incident at a time. You can do this! Small steps. Small victories. Its hard to be young and feeling less than healthy :( I believe in you, and best of luck!!!!!!!!!!!

~Chevy

[Vandy]

Good post sun~ :)

[goodbeets]

Living in Maine, it get's pretty darned cold. I have been finding making things like squash or sweet potato soup (raw) and then heating it up just to warm helps. I know spicy spices like cayenne and ginger are very warming. I put a hunk of ginger in a pot of water and let it simmer for a while then I add a bit of raw sweetener, yum and warm. I have also found that even when I indulge in a cooked emotionally convoluted food I eat far less of it then when I had a cooked food diet. I also feel very happy on the inside when I am truly able to forgive myself and love myself inspight of my flawed life.

[lily]

I must say I do agree with honeybee joy about 'cooking' some foods in the dehydrator. I find this really helpful -- having them straight from the dehydrator, all warm and juicey.

In fact I've just had a yummy salad with warm, garlicky portobellos on top -- they were warm, 'cooked' through, and really hit the spot.

I just wiped them very lightly with olive oil and a bit of salt and crushed garlic before putting dehydrating. You could do this with other veggies such as broccoli.

Warmly,

lily

[rawnora]

I must say I do agree with honeybee joy about 'cooking' some foods in the dehydrator. I find this really helpful -- having them straight from the dehydrator, all warm and juicey.

In fact I've just had a yummy salad with warm, garlicky portobellos on top -- they were warm, 'cooked' through, and really hit the spot.

I just wiped them very lightly with olive oil and a bit of salt and crushed garlic before putting dehydrating. You could do this with other veggies such as broccoli.

Warmly,

lily

Lily,
I also used my dehydrator a lot in the beginning to get through cold weather. There are lots of creative things people can do to simulate cooked food and stay away from the real thing.

However, even in very small quantities, condiments such as oils, salt and garlic render the foods they accompany into the stomach very difficult to digest. By contrast, light steaming offers the advantage of converting some of the long-chain sugars in veggies to simple sugars that the body doesn't have to break down. Unfortunately, it also denatures some of the other nutrients so that they are unusable. However, on balance steaming is an acceptable transitional practice when you add the fact that it also increases the satisfaction factor, which is crucial. Putting oils, garlic and salt on foods is not in the same category. It may help to keep a person satisfied, but it offers no nutritional benefit in return and causes big problems for the body. If a person is needing to compromise in order to stay on track, it's helpful to know which compromises are least harmful. Eating highly condimented food is much worse than simple steaming. We don't often hear the truth about this because in the raw community eating raw food has become more like a religion where adhering to the tenets is a more important goal than becoming healthy, imo.

It's all relative, of course, because if a person eating even a highly condimented recipe would be eating something worse otherwise, the recipe is preferable. Also, I recognize that we all have to do what is necessary to stay on track, and I did things in my early days that make me cringe today. I'm just offering the above to try to help people make the least harmful choices.

Kind regards,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[luckitri]

yes suddenly I am cold all the time. I just met a raw foodist who is quitting being 100% because she is cold all the time. This is a serious problem for some of us especially some medical conditions that have not gone away make us prone to cold. Well both ends of the spectrum bother me any more. I don't know why that is but it may be an indicator of some medical prob. Here in Az I am paralyzed by the heat for 6 months (used to not be bothered by it) and now it is only slightly cold and I am frozen and can't get warm. Couldn't stay in Rockland 'cause of it.....uhhhhh Labor Day weekend and 40 degrees in the midday sun! When I was a baby my parents put me out to nap in the snow and cold thinking they would harden me up to it! Seems like just the opposite happened!

[Forever Young]

What if I told you hot or cold dosen't really matter. Use your mind to create your body heat, your mind is more powerful than anything in this world. When you are done detoxing your body temperature will balance out and hot or cold won't bother you as much. Your as hot as you want to be or as cold no matter where you live. Forever Young :cool:

[Vandy]

Rawnora~ this is why I love 811...if I can add something... I used to be FREEZING ALL THE TIME LAST YEAR, even in the summer/spring. However, the longer I stuck to it the more my body adapted, and when I tried to include salt and heavy herbs into my diet again, I realized that my body was rejecting them, and I began to feel cold and other old symptoms return. Not to mention, the taste of salt to me is disgusting now. I would never spoil a tomato with it anymore. Ironically, I never used to eat a tomato without it. The more warm things you eat, the more your body will depend on it. However, if you keep putting things that are room temperature in your body, your body never has to work to normalize its temperature (cold or hot)...this should help your body a lot more to adapt. I don't eat warm things or cold things b/c I find that they throw me off and I either get cold or hot in the process. I always try to eat things at room temp, or if it is warm outside, that temp.

[lily]

Thank you, Nora -- I found your comments very interesting and helpful and appreciate your taking the trouble to explain. Although I've been doing my best with very high raw for a year now I feel there's still so much to learn.

Vandy -- or Nora, or someone who knows -- please could you explain briefly what 811 is? I have read your earlier postings, Vandy, but still don't quite understand the exact ethos and can't seem to find it on google.

I do understand that it's low fat and lots of fruit -- but what is it based on, and what does the 811 stand for?

Sorry if I've slightly hijacked this thread by asking this -- but as it has come up, it would be good to know a bit more, or where to go to find more, and maybe others would like to know these things too.

lily

[lily]

Replying to myself! i got the answer to my question in the next post I looked at when you, Vandy, recommended www.foodnsport.com -- so now understand -- in a nutshell, fruit all day, and a salad at night, very little of any kind of fat. Now I'm going to go to amazon and find out about Dr Doug Graham's books...

My goodness, what a lot I've learnt from this message board. May I take this opportunity to say a big 'thank you' to Alissa for running it and to everyone who participates for generously sharing their knowledge...

lily

[rawpriestess]

Well, it's all a trade off, I can understand eating all organic, as I grow most of my own foods, and I hardly ever use oils or salt anymore, in fact, I don't use them at all, unless I'm making a recipe.


I mostly eat fruits, and now that it is getting cooler weather, I have been drawn naturaly to tomatoes, carrots, cabbage, onion, garlic, etc. so I am eating those in a warmed veggie soup/smoothie. LOL

they really hit the spot, I add a dash of cayenne to my Vita Mixed, warmed soup and it's to live for.

it really helps on those cold days, I also add cayenne to my drinks even if they are room temp, they taste warm to me.

Orange juice with cayenne and ginger is really nice, so is carrot juice with cayenne and ginger. very nice indeed, tastes very exotic and warms me right up.

I would say it is better to eat all raw, and if for some reason that doesn't work for you, then do what does, and if eating lightly steamed veggies will keep you more raw, and at least vegan, then I say, do that.

and definitely asking on this forum is a good thing, so many people get off raw, or get confused and just hide, it's great that you are asking and getting so many good ideas, so you can make your own choices with all this great information.

[luckitri]

No this is a good question. I have inferred what it is, having read reference to it many times here but I would also like to know more.

[Lunar*Fey]

Don't feel bad, I don't think steamed veggies could really mess you up at all. I may have to be eaten steamed, frozen veggies sometimes. Not because I couldn't not eat them or something but because I just might have to. I know that there isn't anything I can do about it right now. I really don't think steamed vegetables will do anything any way. I, too, was wanting some beans, sweet potatoe, and vegetables...when I first got back from renfrew I had them if they were available because my mom was always like watching and still is and is upset I'm not doing it much any more. I tried some sprouted peas and loved them...which never happened before. THis is all nonsensical and jumbled haha sorry...

[luckitri]

Forever Young, I guess my mind just isn't that strong!

[Forever Young]

Forever Young, I guess my mind just isn't that strong!
It is, you just don't realize it yet.

[rawpriestess]

One more thing, I don't eat steamed veggies, as I feel they are cooked, and not something I wish to eat,


so, what I do is place them in a baggy in the dehydrator and allow to warm up, you don't need to put the oil on them, if you don't want, just put them in a baggy and this keeps them moist, works really well,

I also do this dehydrated foods, I want to rehydrate, I put them in a baggy with a bit of water, they absorb the water and become warm and they are heavenly.mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[dreamrawalwz]

I feel so stupid! I just binged on steamed veggies and wild rice :( They weren't even all organic!!!! Instead of saying "poor me" and just stay cooked for...ever! I'm going to take a deep breath and start fresh tomorrow! I just started going and couldn't stop! Now I KNOW I can't have ANY steamed/cooked food in my diet. If I feel cold the most I'll incorporate is warm herbal tea and that's it. Please help motivated me! I have to believe in myself. I think it wasn't good to have these intense cravings, having my boss on my back about raw, my parents left for out of town today (and i HATE being alone), the emotional stuff, ect...I just cracked! I don't think I'll start my counting over, but just say I slipped once, what do you think?

[luckitri]

You had a little slip. Don't start your counting over. You are doing great! It could have been much worse and you came to the right place. You are doing much better than you ever have before so don't punish yourself for 1 slip!

[sungoddess]

definitely don't feel like your starting over. You are moving forward still in EVERY WAY!!!! Don't feel guilt! Guilt is bad! Love yourself and remember how strong you are every day. How many other people your age can go through what you go through, eh?
you should be proud. just keep on trudging!

[dreamrawalwz]

I'm having a reaction!!!! I have this huge swollen lump think under my tounge that feels like a jellybean under there! Dumb dumb dumb Tracey!!!!

Here's a picture of it!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d103/dreamalwz/tounge.jpg

Sorry it's so big! I don't know how to resize it, but see that oval lump under my tounge? Ewww...WATER WATER WATER!

[dreamrawalwz]

That lump thing is getting bigger and looks like i have 1/2 a tounge under my tounge! What the heck is it!? I'll never do this ever again! I feel SO incredibly stupid...I want to do certain actions that I promised my mom I wouldn't, but it's SOO hard being alone and sitting with this, honestly.

[Vandy]

calm down. Everything will be ok. It's mind over matter for the moment in time. Breathe deeply, and I know that you are alone, but you are really not. We are here. If you want, email me, I'll give u my number, and I can help talk this through with you. Please don't worry. It expells so much more energy....

[dreamrawalwz]

calm down. Everything will be ok. It's mind over matter for the moment in time. Breathe deeply, and I know that you are alone, but you are really not. We are here. If you want, email me, I'll give u my number, and I can help talk this through with you. Please don't worry. It expells so much more energy....

I'd like your number so I can talk right now, if you don't mind? I'll email you...

EDIT: i tried and it says you don't have a public email so I can't email you unless you give it to me here...or could you email me since mine is public?

[dreamrawalwz]

I'll stop complaining after this post. I took 2 benadryl. You all KNOW I'm against drugs going into my body, but my whole tounge started to swell and my throat was getting really warm so I decided that I'd rather have drugs to counteract that reaction instead of stop breathing...a good decision IMO.

[Vandy]

no more benadryl... my email is kristina.bucaram@vanderbilt.edu

I'll be waiting so that I can call u

[dreamrawalwz]

no more benadryl... my email is kristina.bucaram@vanderbilt.edu

I'll be waiting so that I can call u

Thanks. I actually emailed my number for you so you can call

::waits for phone call - nervous::

[luckitri]

dream, when I first came to this board I remember someone wrote that the vibrant beautiful colors on raw vegetables tells you that they are better for you and therefore created to be more enticing raw. Sometimes lightly steamed vegetables have even brighter color and I know that some people think that is optimal nutrition release for digestive impaired people. So, in conclusion I don't think that a slip of lightly steamed vegetables would be bad for most people - but DANG-IT! What do you think did that to you?

[swingbolder]

However, even in very small quantities, condiments such as oils, salt and garlic render the foods they accompany into the stomach very difficult to digest.


What is Alissa's view on salt, oils, garlic? Does she think they are harmful as well?