alcohol?

[Vann167]

Ok, so I know that alcohol is a very harmful toxin for our bodies. However, I'm in college, and the reality is that if I didn't go out drinking on the weekends, I'd be sitting at home on Friday and Saturday nights (and I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it on occasion). I've been a vegan for 5 years, and am trying to transition to raw. It's been hard getting through detox while having to study for classes and exams, but I was wondering if it is worth it to go raw if I'm going to be drinking on the weekends? I know this sounds like a trivial problem because I should just give up alcohol, but at the same time I don't want to give up this part of my college experience. Can anyone relate or offer advice or tell me how bad alcohol is poisoning my body?

[sport]

Yes it is bad but it is not as bad as having the alcohol and the cooked food.
Go raw and have a drink.
I have read that Sky Vodka is the purest drink if you need to indulge.
Hopefully you will find in time that you no longer want it but in the meantime enjoy your life and do the best that you can.

[mdm4888]

Hey< I definitely relate to you! I graduated from FSU, and drinking was a huge part of college... I am not saying you can't have fun, but it is the favorite past time! I feel your pain, I am still struggling with this now. I like very much to go out dancing, and drinking. I have been 16 weeks raw, and have still enjoyed my wine. I now only drink wine and mostly organic. I will tell you one thing that I noticed, I can't tolerate it as much at all. I can only drink like 2-3 glasses of wine at most... I feel the effects much stronger and the day after SUCKS! I am sorry to say that the hangovers are the worst. If you want to continue getting super drunk, don't go raw. I am not going to lie or sugar coat it beacause I have been in your shoes and am in the transition. It really sucks the life out of you to drink on raw... not really if you have 1 or two glasses of wine, but even that now is really affecting me. Your body becomes so sensitive to everything. Well good luck. I think it really depends on how bad you want health at this point in your life.

Hope this helps!! Michelle

[Sharon in Colorado]

Ok, so I know that alcohol is a very harmful toxin for our bodies....

Can anyone relate or offer advice or tell me how bad alcohol is poisoning my body?

You mention that you ALREADY know that alcohol is a harmful toxin to the body, but then you also want to know how bad alcohol is poisoning to your body.

Just wondering why you'd ask here - are you asking for permission, or justification? Or, do you need a reason to get out of it?

Because either you are going to do what you want to do, or you aren't.

If you want my advice to get out of it, I would suggest not being boring and following what your friends do. Do what you are really led to do, away from the crowd. You don't need to hang out with them, do what they do, or be like them to have a good time, and I'll bet there are plenty of others who have similar interests as you, or even just disinterested in drinking alcohol that you can hang with in your down time, you just have to look around.

You must decide on your own with your head and heart if this lifestyle is for you or not. And we'll be here to support your decision. :)

P.S. In another thread here, someone had posted how UNfun it is to go out, act like a drunken idiot, not remember anything that happened, get into strange and uncomfortable situations, not be able to think clearly or walk straight, do things that in your sober mind you'd never do, operate a vehicle or other machinery drunk, and then wake up feeling horrible. Now I've been there myself, and I wouldn't do that again for anything.

[solarliving]

I occasionally have organic wine. You can do what my dad does when he is the designated driver, drink water with ice and a straw, or you can drink out of a tall glass that you can't see through. Looks like vodka, No one will know the difference. He says he actually has more fun watching everyone else.

[Princess Elaine]

...though I spend a lot of time lurking...learning so much...I feel compelled to write to this thread...

I spent the years in my 20's drinking so much...thinking it was the only way to have fun...gee, how boring everyone else seemed...since I have the disease I call 'more'...more of anything that makes me feel different I had to eventually surrender and say my way didn't work...now this is for me...and I'm definitely not trying to promote this...now that I'm sober...come'n up on 13 years...and ALL my friends are from my annonymous group....we will all agree...we've never had more fun....a group of us at a party, a restaurant...whereever...and you can take the liquor out of party people but you can't take the party mentality...and no more hangovers...guilt, the 'gee what did I do last night'...

I just wanted to add to what others had said ...I'm grateful every day that I didn't harm someone while I was drinking or myself...
love, Elaine

[Faithfullyfit]

Get your friends hooked on wheat grass.....woohooo! Much more fun :-) to have clean energy and not fuzzy nauseated fatigue the next day!

If you are going out -most bartenders have the makings for a strawberry daquiri. (Frozen Strwberries)...just swirl up a Strawberry Lime smoothie- carry some greens powder -like "green Vibrance" it comes in single serving packets! You will be the LIFE of the party and maybe even start a RAWvolution.

I wish you the best in your decision and be a leader and not a follower ;)

[Amberly]

I occasionally have organic wine. It may not be a healthy thing to do, but I like it so i do it occasionally. I don't try to justify it. I don't have to.

[luckitri]

Well, I know when I was that age the pressure was really on and there was lots of ridicule like "Reality is for people who can't handle drugs" and I starved to just meet some middle of the road people who were having balanced lifestyles. It seemed that excess was the order of the day. You couldn't just be a musician after work - you had to live eat and breathe music. Ditto for the druggies and drinkers. Unfortunately I found the vegetarian health food people also excessive in their own way. Perhaps you can be an innovator and form that middle of the road group of people and I would encourage you to do so.

Perhaps hosting potlucks at someone's house would help you find some middle ground people.

[Mango]

I don't have too many regrets in life but the one that I do have is the way I drank in college. I never drank until I went to college but then I did it big. I did things while drunk that I truly regret to this day and I am 40. I am still paying for the consequences of my actions.

Do yourself a huge favor and find something else to do on the weekend. I am sure there are others who are looking for someone else to say "I don't want to do this anymore".

I have not had a drink for 5 years now! No regrets for 5 years.

[Atari117]

for me, this is what i do and my results with raw and alcohol:

every day of the week I eat ONLY raw foods (I will list) and Friday and Saturday nights I do drink alcohol.
I have seen the fantastic typical raw-related energy, skin, etc. results, even with drinking (although, I will mention that I am probably lukcky and that I guarantee my raw diet WITHOUT alcohol would greater my results)
Now, I'm not losing weight anymore, but I don't need to; nor am I gaining weight. I did lose about 10 pounds though when I first started eating this way 6 months ago and that was probably enough for me.

MY FOOD (foods near the top are on a daily basis & foods near the bottom weekly):
Avocados/guacamole
corn
salsa
tomatoes
cashews/almonds
DATES and BANANAS! (like no other)
smoothies (bananas and frozen fruit: blueberries, strawberries, pineapple, mango - don't do peaches, they usually have other stuff in them)
marinated mushrooms
GT Komboucha - gingerberry & grape - actually I drink one of these a day

Also, when I'm out I order Skyy Vodka w/ soda water and lemon&lime
Also I drink wine but I never drink beer.
OH YEA: ITS TRUE! YOU WILL NEED LESS ALCOHOL!! SO BE CAREFUL!

Assuming you're the "typical" college kid and drinking is part of your social life, it is pretty unrealistic to just drop/change friends right now, plus I'm thinking you don't necessarily even want to stop drinking right now. I'm guessing, for me, over time I will only have wine.

But for now, I make sure all my solids are RAW RAW RAW :)

[eatyourbroccoli]

Can anyone relate or offer advice or tell me how bad alcohol is poisoning my body?alcohol is THE WORST DRUG you could possibly put into your body, right alongside of heorine and cocaine. its worse for you than nicotine, but will never be restricted like cigarrettes are because its such an incredibly huge market and popular enough among the younger generations to ignore the riduculous amount of negative health effects in the name of monetary gain.

you could easily find something else to do on friday and saturday nights than drink. you could still go out with your friends, and just choose NOT to drink.

im a sophomore in college. i dont drink. i still have a life. a far more physically/mentally/spiritually rewarding one than the friends i have that drink.

good luck.

[sungoddess]

I am a freshman in college and I don't drink. My friends and I have an amazing time... we are very similar in our interests and are more homebodies. ( we aren't "freaks" either, i promise :p )

However, I also have friends that drink and I go out with them too from time to time.

I just want health really really badly. And if you are like me, and are struggling for it, alcohol is something easy to cut out (because it always made me SO sick the next day the few times I really did in High School)

[Sharon in Colorado]

This is a great lesson that I teach my kids...it seems like nobody feels like you do, but actually there are a lot of others who feel just like you.

When my kids go to a new class or group and they are nervous I let them know that many other kids feel the same way, and wouldn't it be great if they were the first ones to step out and say "hello" to the other kids.

This is quite like your situation. It's just the "stepping out" of your comfort zone, and getting to know others - soon you'll find there ARE others who actually go to college to learn, not to party. Your experience can be so much more than getting wasted with friends...don't think for a moment that this is what it's all about.

[exurb]

almost all wines are raw. organic wines are certified to be vegan, conventional wines may use an animal based clarifying agent, may not.

the wines that aren't raw are the ones made from concentrates (eg the dorm room down the hall that makes their own wine and beer). most bottled wines from actual wineries are raw, except some reeely cheeep wines that are made from concentrates.

beer though not raw, is actually very nutritious in general, chock full of vitamins.

I do think alcohol to the point of getting blasto is quite unhealthy... giddy, well, hey, who knows, because there are benefits. Statistically the person who has a drink a day is healthier than the teetotaller, but the person who has a major piss up on weekends is not healthier.

[Atari117]

Sharon in Colorado]

This is quite like your situation. It's just the "stepping out" of your comfort zone, and getting to know others - soon you'll find there ARE others who actually go to college to learn, not to party. Your experience can be so much more than getting wasted with friends...don't think for a moment that this is what it's all about.[/QUOTE]



I know this was not at all directed at anyone. But, I would like to clarify this for my own sake ;)
I am a college student who goes to school to LEARN
I have a 3.7 GPA
I like many things outside of academics, not just partying.
Like I said - I KNOW there is no pointing of fingers but I wanted to set myself apart from the masses! :p

[eatyourbroccoli]

beer though not raw, is actually very nutritious in general, chock full of vitamins. i think its very dangerous to make claims like this, when it is very very untrue. beer is essentially fermented sugar..and one of the most toxic things a person can consume.

i forget who originally posted this, but Top 5 Foods People Think Are Good for Them But Arent! (http://ezinearticles.com/?Top-5-Worst-Foods-You-Can-Eat-That-People-Think-Are-Healthy&id=95913)

"5- Wine, and alcohol — According to toxicology (the branch of pharmacology that deals with the nature and effects and treatments of poisons), alcohol is classified as a protoplasmic poison, because it is poisoning to both plants and animals - from the smallest microbe to the most complex animal. Alcohol kills microbes but also kills the cells of a complex organism, such as the human being. It is an intoxicant that ruins millions of lives and kills people by the thousand each day, directly or indirectly.Unfortunately, it has become a social habit in many parts of the world to intoxicate oneself with alcohol. This poison habit is so prevalent and is such an intricate part of our lives that is now considered abnormal to abstain from this popular intoxicant. Most health professionals are aware of the ill effects of alcohol, but few will recommend to give it up completely. They will talk about “moderation.” “Drink, they will say, but be moderate.” How can someone be moderate with such an unhealthy and addictive product? To my understanding, moderation is only valid for the healthy factors of life, not unhealthy one. For example, no doctor will tell you, “be moderate in smoking,” although that is what they used to say. Can we be moderate with cocaine too?

Now, my readers should understand that when someone eats a healthy diet, alcohol has an even more disastrous effect on the body. That is because the body has stopped protecting itself from the various poisons found in a modern diet, because it is no longer or less in contact with them. Just like a child who has never taken alcohol will strongly react to it when drinking it for the first time. So my dear readers, even that little glass of wine has a catastrophic effect on the system. And when drunk with a meal, it makes everything ferment in the digestive tract. No if you cannot resist that glass of wine, only have a little and on an empty stomach only, not with a meal."

[rawnora]

Many things can be classified as poison even if they don't cause us to instantly drop dead. Even small amounts of alcohol are very damaging to the body. It doesn't matter whether it's "raw" or "organic". What is the point of making sure that the grapes or hops (not even a human food to begin with) weren't sprayed with pesticides if you're going to turn them into a poison by allowing them to ferment?

This is the danger of choosing foods based on their nutrient profile. Anything can be made to seem nutritious. How about some tree bark? It's also chock full of nutrients. And why put compost in your soil and wait for the plants to synthesize it? Why not eat it right out of the compost bin! What a time and energy saver.

eatyourbroccoli, thanks very much for posting that blurb. (It was written by Frederic Patenaude, btw.)

I also drank in college and I'm sure that my mind would be a whole lot sharper at age 50 if I hadn't wantonly slaughtered millions of my brain cells as I endeavored to escape from reality back then. Everyone who is young enough to avoid this particular mistake is crazy not to do so, imo.

Warm wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[exurb]

Broc, I am insulted by your insult.

I also pointed out that more than one drink is detrimental and negative from a statistical point of view.

Where did Patenaude get his PhD, and where were his post Doc studies? (that is where my info on the nutrition of beer comes from). What is that info based on that it is better to drink wine on an empty stomach? BTW, it's not fermented sugar, it's fermented barley, with hops for flavor.

I'm not advocating drinking, and I was clear that heavy drinking is worse for you. However it is well documented that people who have one drink a day are shown to be healthier than teetotallers.

Maybe it's because their condescension and other anti-social factors increase, and maybe it's associated with an ascetic personality, who knows what the etiology is, but it is a fact that one-drink-a-dayers are healthier. Go figure. Maybe it's a healthier attitude associated with it, and attitude and happiness has a lot to do with health. I'm just presenting the facts. There's a lot more BS info flying around than what I've presented.

You want toxicity, look at the studies on the hepatotoxicity of blue green algae aka Klamath Lake stuff (as in E-3 Live) everyone on here is swilling down.

A votre sante!!!!

[eatyourbroccoli]

exurb, i wasnt insulting you and i apologize for you taking it that way. youve been on this board awhile and hopefully youre able to see that im one who almost always attempts to avoid controversy, and intends only to help people - not to offend them.

i dont, however, feel its necessary to justify my "alcohol is a poison" stance, and ill therefore be ignoring this thread from now on.

[exurb]

exurb, i wasnt insulting you and i apologize for you taking it that way. youve been on this board awhile and hopefully youre able to see that im one who almost always attempts to avoid controversy, and intends only to help people - not to offend them.

Thanks broc. I would also think that you would have seen me helping many people, and not intending to be "very dangerous" as judged by you, in fact in many cases I have gone out of my way to help people avoid danger.

The thing I was trying to point out, is that the stats show that people who have one drink a day are healthier. Sure the alcohol is a toxin. Lots of things, foods, etc., have toxins coupled with componenets that are good for you, and our livers have their work cut out for themselves. Even if you're a "breatharian" your lifestyle is not without toxins. Flax has hydrogen cyanide in it :eek: . (BTW no more than 50 g a day recommended by quality research :) ). The reports I have read on the Upper Klamath Lake algae are horrifying.

I think rawbies have to be careful to not be hypocrits, holier than thou, ascetic, judgemental, narrow, etc. I believe that these pack negative health consequences. My vision of raw is decadent, fantastic, non-limiting, expanding, delicious, sensual, enjoyable, divine, wondrous, and social, and if that half a glass of awesome red wine every now and again practically gives me an "O" I'm sure I'm better for it. I'm more worried about sucking back the E-3 Live, eating cups and cups of flax all the time, or other toxic habits.

Vann could contemplate having a single drink here and there as maybe a healthier attitude to life in general, or he/she could teetotal. The statistics and studies keep showing that teetotallers are less healthy than a-drink-a-dayers. Binge drinkers are less healthy than both groups.

[sport]

I must say that I am concerned about this idea that people who drink one drink a day are healthier and I can not believe it.
Do other people believe it or will I put it in to the same box as the "Milk is good for your bones".
I know that there are probably lots or reports supporting it but are there any we can thrust. I can not contemplate the idea of taking a drink a day and I know (am convinced) that it would do me harm.
This is coming from someone who did not give up partying until in to her fifties but always knew that the alcohol was damaging me.

[Atari117]

I don't think it is as general as "alcohol is good for the body". More like studies have been done with red wine and the heart. Or at least that is what I've read. My dad had open heart surgery and they recommended (or rather, gave permission) to red wine.
But then again, I'm sure someone is going to disagree with that study.

To be honest, I think this is an opinion thing and debating the issue just offends and insults other people's opinions.

[luckitri]

Just for the record - alchohol WAS regulated - during Prohibition - and many people made their fortunes running it - as are others today with illicit drugs. Alchohol has been with us for centuries - since recorded time.....some say that in the Bible they drank wine because it was safer than water - a sort of water purification system - and that the wine of that time was very weak. Everything in moderation!

[RawNut]

The Buzz about Grape Juice

OK, it's not wine. But it has many of its health benefits.
By Peter Jaret
WebMD Feature

April 3, 2000 (Petaluma, Calif.) -- Even the most heartening news about the health benefits of wine wasn't enough to convince Susan Sanford to imbibe. "I've just never liked the taste of alcohol," says Sanford, 42, a film sound engineer in Northern California. "Still, with all the headlines, you can't help wondering whether you're missing out on something that might lower your risk of heart disease."

Well, Susan Sanford, worry no more. If you don't like wine, the latest studies show you can get almost all the same benefits from grape juice. The reason: Purple grape juice contains the same powerful disease-fighting antioxidants, called flavonoids, that are believed to give wine many of its heart-friendly benefits.

What'll It Be: Wine or Welch's?

The flavonoids in grape juice, like those in wine, have been shown to prevent the oxidation of so-called bad cholesterol (LDLs, or low-density lipoproteins) that leads to formation of plaque in artery walls. In a study published in 1999 in the journal Circulation, researchers at the University of Wisconsin Medical School in Madison asked 15 patients who already showed clinical signs of cardiovascular disease -- including plaque-constricted arteries -- to drink a tall glass of grape juice daily. After 14 days, blood tests revealed that LDL oxidation in these patients was significantly reduced. And ultrasound images showed changes in the artery walls, indicating that their blood was flowing more freely.

Grape juice can also lower the risk of developing the blood clots that lead to heart attacks, according to unpublished findings from Georgetown University researcher Jane Freedman, MD. So can red wine, but in this case grape juice is the more practical way to go: "Wine only prevents blood from clotting [when it's consumed] at levels high enough to declare someone legally drunk," says University of Wisconsin researcher John Folts, Ph.D. "With grape juice, you can drink enough to get the benefit without worrying about becoming intoxicated."

What's more, alcoholic drinks don't seem to improve the function of cells in blood vessel linings the way grape juice does. And alcohol generates free radicals -- unstable oxygen molecules that can actually cause damage to blood vessel tissues -- dampening any of the benefits that red wine's antioxidants may offer.

Longer-Lasting Protection

Even better news, for Sanford and other teetotalers, is that the antioxidants in grape juice appear to linger in the body longer than do those in wine. At the University of California, Davis, researchers took a 1996 cabernet sauvignon, removed all the alcohol, and asked a group of nine volunteers to alternate between drinking the nonalcoholic wine one day and an alcoholic version the next. In their findings, reported in the January 2000 issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, a key antioxidant called catechin remained in the blood for more than 4 hours after the volunteers drank the nonalcoholic wine, compared to only 3.2 hours for the full-strength cabernet. Apparently, alcohol hastens the breakdown of the antioxidant in the blood, speeding its elimination from the body.

But wine may provide at least one benefit grape juice doesn't: Alcohol has been shown to increase levels of HDL, the so-called good cholesterol, in the blood.

Even so, if you're a non-drinker, grape juice is a terrific way to get many of wine's potential health benefits, Folts says. If you do go for the juice, choose the purple kind, which is far richer in antioxidant flavonoids than red or white. Surprisingly, eating red table grapes won't provide as much protection. That's because the juice is made by crushing not just the skin and flesh but the seeds, too, which are especially rich in flavonoids. White grapes and grape juice won't do either, because they don't contain the flavonoids that purple or red grapes do.

Sanford can now rest assured. With a glass of purple grape juice with breakfast or for an afternoon snack, her heart can realize the same benefits as those of her wine-drinking friends. And if you don't want wine at dinner, uncork one of the fine nonalcoholic reds on the market. They're loaded with antioxidants as well as great flavor -- and you can drink all you like without worrying about driving home.

Peter Jaret is a freelance writer in Petaluma, Calif., who has written for Health, Hippocrates, and many other national publications.

http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/13/1671_50624.htm?printing=true

[Forever Young]

[QUOTE=Atari117
To be honest, I think this is an opinion thing and debating the issue just offends and insults other people's opinions.[/QUOTE]
You are correct about that. Only drink wine. Forever young :cool:

[Sharon in Colorado]

I think Vann was really posting and asking about partying with her friends. When I was her age, I didn't just have 1 drink, I had several until I couldn't think straight, so I think it's more of a social drinking/getting blitzed question rather than asking if 1 glass of wine or bottle of beer at dinner is healthy.

Back in the 60's when I was being breastfed, the doc told my mommy to drink a glass of beer a day for the vitamins.

I dont' know how that shaped me to this day, it could be my strengths or it could be my weaknesses.

But I've never really enjoyed drinking, unless I was drinking to get a buzz with my buddies. I did get into wine a little bit, but the last time I had a glass of Manishewitz, it made my whole face numb, so I think I'll be drinking grape juice this Passover.

By the way, what ever happened to Vann, the OP? Did she just start this thread and run off or what?

[RawNut]

Thanks for bringing us back Sharon,

I'm an "all or nothing" type of person. I could never just have a couple and I do regret drinking like that. Perhaps Vann, you could join some clubs such as a religious one for whatever your religion or anything so long as you aren't sitting at home on Friday and Saturday nights. How about joining SADD?

Craig

[Vann167]

Hey thank you so much for all the replies. I loved hearing all the different perspectives and opinions. Sorry it took me so long to reply, I didn't realize the thread would be so active.

It really helped to hear that some people could relate to where I was coming from, thanks for not flat out being insulted that I would even pose the question.

I think I'll definitely stick with raw foods and try to majorly cut back on alcohol on the weekends, again I don't drink that much or every weekend, so I'm just going to see how my body feels. Once I start being able to listen to what my body wants more, maybe I'll realize how horrible alcohol is making me feel.

Anyways, thanks so much for all the advice and debate.

Katie