I am not going to eat cacao for a while

[sungoddess]

3 and a half hours ago I seriosuly overdosed on raw cacao nibs. I dind't even mean to. I just forgot that the dessert that I made for myself and overindulged in was literally just cacao and agave. WELL. I have never felt so horrible in my life. I have been unbelievably jittery for the past 3 and a half hours! I feel like I am on drugs! I do'nt even know what to do with myself. I just ate an avacado in a frenzy, probably because I needed to balance out the high magnesium in cacao with potassium. But honestly, I still feel jittery and HORRIBLE. I can't settle down and I am NOT going to be eating cacao for a very long time. Maybe even never again. AHHH. I can't believe David WOlfe endorses this. and sells it.

[PATH301]

If your near a gym, go and burn it off :D

[Goldsplinter]

Greens .

[Sharon in Colorado]

A couple years ago when it was first introduced, I got the nibs and didn't really care for the taste and fermented after-taste. Did leave me a little jittery as well.

However I just got some of the new powder and it's a lot different. A lot smoother as well. I used some in a banana coconut smoothie today and it was pretty good.

[sungoddess]

Goldsplinter- I am actually downing baby romaine right now in a frenzy. What is in it that I am craving????

[Ireland]

I don't think so much craving...as your body telling you to balance things.

Ya anyhow, burn off some of that energy and perhaps go for a walk. I don't do caffeine anymore...my body does the same thing with even tiny amounts.

Try a hot bath maybe...I wish you the best, just try to ride it out.

As my gramma used to say (well not really, but it sounds good) "This too shall pass"

[Goldsplinter]

i don't know what you're craving, but I was just eating a lot of fats and sugary stuff and i just KNOW i have to eat greens. (doing so right now )

[Sunshine9]

Yeah I've been there. Got little sores on my tongue the next day when I over did it.

I think we can overdo anything though... even the best foods

Eat too many kale for too long? Too alkaline. Too many walnuts? My mouth will burn. Too much fruit? I'll space out. Too much salt? I'll get puffy. Just about balance. I don't think that means any of those foods aren't meant for us.

I don't think it means cacao is a less than excellent food
though we all have unique chemistry so perhaps it isn't the best ever in your system

[sungoddess]

true. wow, i am really feeling this. It is making me so sick! For so long! I just ate frozen bananas too to Potassium-ize, however now - omg, as I write I am actually feeling a little better! as much as the optimum thing to do would be to go for a walk, I didn't even feel sane or stable enough to do so! I couldn't believe how affected I was.
argh, now that I had bananas with the avacado and oliveoil on my greens I will be feeling bad digestionwise.
but that potassium actually really helped i think....

i am just going to go to bed now.

unbelievable! until i can be trusted with portion control, I am not going to incorporate the rest of my cacao nibs bag into any of my recipes!

oh no... I can already feel the bloating begin from the banana!

[Pierre]

Calcium balances magnesium. Try the kale rather than the lettuce. Potassium balances sodium, so maybe you'll want some celery or dulse after the banana.

[sungoddess]

and I have to say monsieur eclat d'or(goldsplinter), even though I normally am frusterated with your interesting way of communicating, tonight, in my drugged state, it is actually hilarious and making me crack up. So I think I will evermore see your - for lack of better words - explicatives and demands as refreshing... however strange that may seem. to me. and you. and everyone else.

And I want to always call you m. eclat d'or.

ps. i think the greens helped

ps. hahahahaha omg. monsieur eclat d'or rhymes too! it just got even funnier

[sungoddess]

pierre- oh dear... really? i do have some dulse... but I am feeling LOADS better (besides for the gas) so I think I may take the oppurtunity to fall asleep... good info to know though!

[Angelic Light]

I ended up with a migraine due to eating raw cacao truffles for three or four days. Sometimes if I eat cacao it makes me feel as if I am having palpitations and I get anxious. Other times I am fine with it.... as long as I only have a small amount...

[rawnora]

That David Wolfe and others can eat that stuff in the quantities they do is revealing of one of the laws of life -- the Law of Vital Accommodation. The body adapts to the harmful influences that it is unceasingly subjected to. If I drank a couple jiggers of alcohol, I'd be on my face but someone who drinks much and often will hardly feel anything. It works the same with the harmful chemicals in chocolate. Your unpleasant reaction to it means your system is getting more vital and sensitive. If you fed it to a baby, s/he would have the same reaction, because babies have all the sensitivity and vitality that our bodies are supposed to have throughout our whole lives. It is only through continued abuse that our bodies are forced to thicken and protect themselves.

***"I think we can overdo anything though... even the best foods"

Yes, we can overeat even the best foods. But that's different than eating something that is harmful even in very small quantities, as chocolate is.

***"Eat too many kale for too long? Too alkaline. Too many walnuts? My mouth will burn. Too much fruit? I'll space out. Too much salt? I'll get puffy. Just about balance. I don't think that means any of those foods aren't meant for us. I don't think it means cacao is a less than excellent food."

We don't have to 'balance' eating good foods with some quantity (equal or otherwise) of harmful foods. There is only one benefit to be derived from the eating of harmful foods, and that is the only one that should be considered when deciding whether to eat them. It is this: harmful foods feed our addictions, and they allow us to temporarily replace the object of our addictions with a food that is slightly better. That's what raw cacao does. In other words, it is only slightly less harmful than eating a Snickers Bar or a cup of coffee. However, no valid claim can be made that it is beneficial or even harmless. Anyone who doubts this need only stay on a clean diet (which excludes chocolate) for a few months and then go back and try it again. Its harm will be as apparent as holding your hand to a flame. That chocolate may contain certain nutrients is no reason to eat it. The important criteria to consider is not whether a food contains beneficial substances, but whether it contains toxic ones. The foods that are best for us contain the fewest toxic substances.

Well wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[Goldsplinter]

now I want to know why you think cacao is not good (you directly/indirectly said that).

[Lay-Lay]

hope you fill better soon!

[rawnora]

now I want to know why you think cacao is not good (you directly/indirectly said that).

One way that I know that cacao is bad is how my body reacts to it. Since I've been eating a very clean diet for many years now, I can trust my body's reactions. However, there is more objective information to be had for those who wish to find it. For example, I just did a cursory search and found the comments below by Frederic Patenaude. Cacao is #3 on his list of "the unhealthiest foods that people think are healthy". The info that you'll find on line is mostly focussed on the positive aspects of chocolate because so many people are selling it, but the truth can be found if you look hard enough. I think Doug Graham has written about the poisonous effects of cacao, and I'd be surprised if it hasn't been written about truthfully in Living Nutrition magazine, as well.
Regards,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

"Coffee, Black Chocolate and Cacao — First premise: coffee, chocolate and cacao (raw or cooked) are stimulants. They contain certain substances (caffeine and theobromine) that disturb the nervous system. If a person is eating a more natural diet, these poisons have an even more disturbing effect on the system. For a raw- foodist, one cup of coffee has the effect of maybe four cups for someone eating a standard American diet. Personally, half a cup of coffee taken in the morning will disturb my sleep at night, while my dad can drink a cup in the evening and still fall asleep. However, as Shelton wrote: “toleration to poisons is merely a slow method of dying. Instead of seeing in the phenomena of toleration something to be sought after, it is something to seek to avoid the necessity for.” A detoxified person is much like a child: she will strongly react to the smallest dose of any intoxicant.

So there is no room for compromise with caffeinated drinks and cacao products, which include: coffee, hot chocolate, black chocolate, raw cacao beans, black tea, green tea, maté tea, etc."

[Sunshine9]

I simply disagree -- just because one is clean and reacts poorly to a certain food does not by default make that food "toxic." Some of the cleanest and healthiest people I know feel extremely well including cacao in their diets.

And I know everyone respects different gurus in the raw community, but I do not think Patenaude or Graham are any more qualified to deem cacao unhealthy, as Wolfe is to claim that it's good for you. Therefore that leaves only personal experience to decide what foods are the best for us as individuals.

Whatever it is, let's all eat with love and gratitude...

[rawnora]

Sunshine9,
If I state "the tree is green", you can disagree if you'd like but that doesn't make the tree other than green. There is nothing subjective about the toxic nature of cacao. It may seem so because its effects vary from person to person, but that's because how a person reacts is dependent on how clean and healthy s/he is. That stimulants are extremely harmful to the body is a self-evident fact, which anyone can demonstrate to him/herself by the method I mentioned above.

Graham and Patenaude may not be any more 'qualified' than Wolfe to dispense advice, but they're not selling cacao either. They have nothing to gain by telling the truth about the harmful effects of stimulants like cacao.

Additionally, fyi, the negative reaction of a healthy body to a poison is not a "poor" reaction, it is the appropriate response of a vital body.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[Sharon in Colorado]

I think Graham is as qualified on the raw food diet as anyone could be based on his own health, education, background and experience. But then there is Storm Talifero who's been raw the about same time, in tip-top health as well and advocates things that Graham would never advocate. I know Storm uses carob, but does not advocate using cacao products or supplements.

I would not even put Fred P or David W in the same category as those two.

[honeybee joy]

Originally Posted By Walkin'onWater
I don't do caffeine anymore...my body does the same thing with even tiny amounts.

Does it have caffeine in it? Dr. Ross from the Tree of Life told me the caffeine was only in the peel, and that the nibs and powder were caffeine free, because the peels were removed.

[faith4u]

I agree with Nora completely.

I cannot eat cacao without a reaction. Even the powder that I bought directly from David Wolfe since it is supposedly the only truly raw source makes me feel terrible. I start out feeling giddy and great and then within a couple of hours I am jittery, shaky and feeling like I am going to pass out.

I have noticed it affecting me in other areas too.

[Lay-Lay]

The only effect I have found it has on me is the shrinking it does to my wallet ;)

[Goldsplinter]

no wonder i've been getting high.

it's a fuckin stimulant.

Yeah i'll think i'll stop eating cacao.

[Goldsplinter]

Cacao is #3 on his list of "the unhealthiest foods that people think are healthy".

Link? Or just copy paste the list.

[Goldsplinter]

And I want to know if carob is considered a stimulant also.

[Goldsplinter]

Also, why is cacao a poision to our bodies, if it affects our nerveous system, makes us high/giddy w/e, what's bad about that?

[LightLover]

Sunshine9,
If I state "the tree is green", you can disagree if you'd like but that doesn't make the tree other than green. There is nothing subjective about the toxic nature of cacao. It may seem so because its effects vary from person to person, but that's because how a person reacts is dependent on how clean and healthy s/he is. That stimulants are extremely harmful to the body is a self-evident fact, which anyone can demonstrate to him/herself by the method I mentioned above.

Graham and Patenaude may not be any more 'qualified' than Wolfe to dispense advice, but they're not selling cacao either. They have nothing to gain by telling the truth about the harmful effects of stimulants like cacao.

Additionally, fyi, the negative reaction of a healthy body to a poison is not a "poor" reaction, it is the appropriate response of a vital body.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com


* Nora, is it so that all the positive statements in the "SAD-world" about certain foods (cacao etc...) are less valid to the ones in the raw wordls, because these statements have been made comparing with Sad people which didn't take this certain sad-food? And the conclusion would be completely diffeent if compared with rawfooders?

LL

[Sunshine9]

Yikes well if anyone feels that an item is a poison to their system, I hope they do not eat that item. Feeling that something is harmful will do more damage than any amount of "bad" food.

[rawnora]

Goldsplinter,
Here's the link I referenced: http://www.erreur404.info/nutrition/article/top-5-worst-foods-you-44460.html

Carob is not a stimulant. While not being an entirely optimal food, it is a much better choice than cacao.

What's wrong with stimulants is that they occasion extraordinary chemical, mechanical and hormonal responses in the body that overexpend the body's normal resources. And just like when you overspend your bank account and you've got to deposit more to keep a positive balance, your body must recoup the losses that are incurred when you overspend your energy. It does this through rest and sleep. People who regularly indulge in stimulants constantly fight the attempts their bodies make to regenerate energy (which is signalled by feelings of tiredness or weakness) by re-stimulating themselves. For example, I know people who drink coffee late into the evening and claim that they sleep great in spite of this. However, before they can even function the next morning, they have to drink coffee. That stereotypical need for a morning cup of coffee in our culture is indicative of the body desperately demanding rest so it can cleanse, heal and rebalance its internal chemistry. You can get a horse to run faster by whipping it but it can only go so long before it collapses. In the case of the body, the collapse comes when a person gets a bad cold or flu, or some other acute illness. Some people even refuse to let their bodies rest when acute symptoms are present (they take remedies), which is particularly dangerous because it never allows the body to unburden itself, and this in turn leads to chronic or degenerative disease.

Lightlover,
I'm not sure I understand your question. Do you mean -- is a harmful food more harmful to SAD eaters or to raw fooders? If you can clarify I'll try to answer. Thanks!

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[eatyourbroccoli]

im curious..do any animals nibble on cacao beans in nature?

i jut bought a bag of them too :(

dont particularly care for the taste though, and if theyre not at least good for me i have no problem excluding them from my diet. aside from the $20 i just spent on them :rolleyes: . so it goes, i suppose ...

[daisyduke]

RawNora - I love reading your posts. You are always so informative in a kind, gentle way. Thank you for bringing your knowledge to this board. I couldn't agree with you more on this subject. I am a huge fan of Doug Graham.

[MacaMan]

One way that I know that cacao is bad is how my body reacts to it. Since I've been eating a very clean diet for many years now, I can trust my body's reactions. However, there is more objective information to be had for those who wish to find it. For example, I just did a cursory search and found the comments below by Frederic Patenaude. Cacao is #3 on his list of "the unhealthiest foods that people think are healthy". The info that you'll find on line is mostly focussed on the positive aspects of chocolate because so many people are selling it, but the truth can be found if you look hard enough. I think Doug Graham has written about the poisonous effects of cacao, and I'd be surprised if it hasn't been written about truthfully in Living Nutrition magazine, as well.
Regards,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

"Coffee, Black Chocolate and Cacao — First premise: coffee, chocolate and cacao (raw or cooked) are stimulants. They contain certain substances (caffeine and theobromine) that disturb the nervous system. If a person is eating a more natural diet, these poisons have an even more disturbing effect on the system. For a raw- foodist, one cup of coffee has the effect of maybe four cups for someone eating a standard American diet. Personally, half a cup of coffee taken in the morning will disturb my sleep at night, while my dad can drink a cup in the evening and still fall asleep. However, as Shelton wrote: “toleration to poisons is merely a slow method of dying. Instead of seeing in the phenomena of toleration something to be sought after, it is something to seek to avoid the necessity for.” A detoxified person is much like a child: she will strongly react to the smallest dose of any intoxicant.

So there is no room for compromise with caffeinated drinks and cacao products, which include: coffee, hot chocolate, black chocolate, raw cacao beans, black tea, green tea, maté tea, etc."

You're basing your opinion on one article you read on the internet? Have you referenced any scientific studies?

[MacaMan]

im curious..do any animals nibble on cacao beans in nature?

i jut bought a bag of them too :(



Good! Enjoy them in moderation and you'll be just fine.

[protea]

eatyourbroccoli,

Civet cats eat raw coffee beans, leading to the most expensive coffee in the world:

http://most-expensive.net/coffee-in-world