Fish oil widely used on organic produce

[protea]

Hi everyone,

I work in agriculture and although I've known this for a while, the implications for raw vegans just hit me today! Fish oil is widely used on most organic crops to control diseases of plants (both fruit and veg), in the place of pesticides. Does this mean our organic produce is not 100% vegan? Just thought I'd put this out there and hear what you think... :)

[Revvell]

Hmmmm. Always thought there was something fishy going on. :rolleyes:

Heck, I dunno. Wash it, it's gone, eh? Seems like some pretty expensive disease control. How's about asking some organic farmers if this is true?

Revvell

[Goldsplinter]

That means that now, companies who distribute produce should also include if it's vegan or not.......... wow, especially since some would never think if an apple or orange is vegan....

[protea]

Revvell,
I work with farmers every day, and was actually just at an organic pear farm this morning for work (I research crop diseases and their control) - they were planning to put a spray on in the next couple of weeks for disease control! We see all the farmers' spray sheets and they definitely use it! :rolleyes: I also asked my professor about it, and he confirmed that organic farmers use it on both fruit and veg...

[Revvell]

Well, it's not something I'm going to worry about. Better that than all the herbicides, pesticides, etc. Either the rain will wash it off ~ or I will. If THIS was my biggest concern...

Revvell

[Goldsplinter]

of course the fish oil is gonnna get into the soil and the plant is gonna feed off it... than mere just wiping the stuff on top.

[Gosia]

There are multiple other similar such issues. Animals are used in the production of many products. Are we aware of all of them? Do we avoid anything that might have contributed in some way to the suffering of other beings? Leather shoes, sweat shops, Persian carpets etc. What about the damage to the planet? There is so many things that one needs to be aware of in order to practise no harm. I try not to get overwhelmed and do my bit the best I can.

Gosia

[honeybee joy]

I wonder if the mercury in the fish oil could contaminate the fruits and vegetables?

[Conscious Midwife]

ORGANIC is not Equivalent to VEGAN

Organic farmers are permitted to fertilized there soil will bone meal (from animals and fish), this meal also includes blood products too.

You just gotta do the best you can with what you know... or don't know.

[Goldsplinter]

apple, 30 cents
organic apple, 70 cents
organic-vegan apple, 1 dollar
Knowing you're eating the best food... priceless.

We here at goldsplinter's mind want you to eat the best you can.

goldsplinter's mind... fulfilling your inner desires...

[Sheryl]

Shellac too is used on many products... and is not vegan either.

[juliebove]

Not sure about fish oil being used as a pesticide. I tried looking it up and saw reference to it, but no particulars. Here in the PNW, fish fertilizer is common. When I lived on Cape Cod, I could not find that but I did find something equally smelly that was made from shellfish. Manure is also a common fertilizer.

One thing that has always bothered me is that plants have feelings. My daughter doesn't believe me when I tell her this. But I do remember doing a really cruel experiment in biology class where we hooked a meter up to a plant. We would then say something either cruel or nice to the plant and judge the reaction. When we said, "I'm going to burn you, plant!", and then held a lighter to it just enough to cause it to heat up, the meter went wild. After doing this for a number of days, we no longer had to apply the lighter to it. We'd merely say, "I'm going to burn you, plant!", and the poor plant got all frantic in anticipation of being hurt. Same thing happened when we cut the plant with scissors.

We also did nice things for the plant like cleaning its leaves or giving it water. We always announced what we were doing. The meter reacted in a different way when we did these things. There was a slight reaction, but not a wild one like when we were fixing to be cruel to it.

And we played various forms of music. The plant liked classical music better than hard rock.

So even when we are eating only fruits and vegetables, those plants probably felt pain or at least shock or some other bad feelings when they were being harvested.

[Goldsplinter]

Yeah, this is why i sometimes, kinda wonder about eating fruits and what I eat... Are they really meant for us?

Thus, whenever i'm aware, I give thanks to the fruits/vegs whatever i'm eating.

[mongomango]

There is an old book out Juliebove, called I believe, The Secret Life Of Plants by Peter Tompkins...which goes into some detail about those things. Ingo Swann, I believe, also has written extensively about this.

It is one reason I don't fault meat eaters at all. We all harm other life to survive, and simply because we can't see the reaction doesn't mean it's not there.

That said, I believe also that this lack of ability to see a reaction is there for a purpose. One can see and hear..and even smell the distress of an animal that is being slaughtered, and so we plainly know the cost of it. So we learn. But we do have to eat something, and for this reason there is not the same reaction in plants. Just imagine if our bowl of salad began screaming as we chopped it up! That it doesn't is a mercy.

[Goldsplinter]

There is an old book out Juliebove, called I believe, The Secret Life Of Plants by Peter Tompkins...which goes into some detail about those things. Ingo Swann, I believe, also has written extensively about this.

It is one reason I don't fault meat eaters at all. We all harm other life to survive, and simply because we can't see the reaction doesn't mean it's not there.

That said, I believe also that this lack of ability to see a reaction is there for a purpose. One can see and hear..and even smell the distress of an animal that is being slaughtered, and so we plainly know the cost of it. So we learn. But we do have to eat something, and for this reason there is not the same reaction in plants. Just imagine if our bowl of salad began screaming as we chopped it up! That it doesn't is a mercy.
Same book I have :)

[mongomango]

The plants need the animal products. It is within the cycle of nature. Animals die, they get reabsorbed into the soil, the plants roots take up the necessary nutrients. We've taken our farming outside of nature, but that doesn't mean that the plants still have no needs.

One of the least intrusive methods of farming upon the land was the 3 sisters method of the native americans. They would mound earth and plant corn, beans, and squash..the beans used the corn as something to grow up, and also put nitrogen into the soil for the corn, the squash leaves covered the ground to keep water in the soil...it was brilliant, each element worked for the other! And every mound while it was being planted had a fish put into the mound for the necessary fertilization. There really is no such thing as totally vegan when you come right down to it, we are all part of the circle of life.

[Svadhyaya]

Oh, my Lord!

That is one of the saddest things I've ever read.
Poor plants! Just because they don't have vocal cords and can't yell or nerve endings to sense pain doesn't mean they have no sense of being, I guess, and a desire for self-preservation.

I don't want to read that book.
I'd never be able to eat again if I did......

[Goldsplinter]

Oh, my Lord!

That is one of the saddest things I've ever read.
Poor plants! Just because they don't have vocal cords and can't yell or nerve endings to sense pain doesn't mean they have no sense of being, I guess, and a desire for self-preservation.

I don't want to read that book.
I'd never be able to eat again if I did......
Well the upside is... The plants may WANT you to eat their fruits, because they may want to be part of your life energy.

[Sheryl]

There are areas where bear populations used to pull out thousands of salmon; they typically eat 25% and leave the rest to rot. However bear populations in some of these areas have dropped so far, that they are seeing a ripple effect to all other animals and plants that used those salmon left on the banks. I saw video on the news and they were dropped net loads of dead fish from helicopters along the banks of the river to mimic what the bears would normally do. Wild eh?

[KombuchaCHIC]

*warning skeptic here*

I don't really agree with the notion that plants have feelings. Animals have brains that process our thoughts and allow us to experience emotions. Plants do not have brains, nor do they have ears to hear with. It's possible that perhaps the plants can react to vibrations made within sounds, but I doubt that those reactions are based on emotion.

My 2 cents.

[Goldsplinter]

*warning skeptic here*

I don't really agree with the notion that plants have feelings. Animals have brains that process our thoughts and allow us to experience emotions. Plants do not have brains, nor do they have ears to hear with. It's possible that perhaps the plants can react to vibrations made within sounds, but I doubt that those reactions are based on emotion.

My 2 cents.
Read that book.

It's more scientific than anything which = pretty boring read.

[KombuchaCHIC]

Perhaps I will.

[juliebove]

*warning skeptic here*

I don't really agree with the notion that plants have feelings. Animals have brains that process our thoughts and allow us to experience emotions. Plants do not have brains, nor do they have ears to hear with. It's possible that perhaps the plants can react to vibrations made within sounds, but I doubt that those reactions are based on emotion.

My 2 cents.

It is true that they do not have ears like we do. But a few simple experiments should show you that they do have reactions...if you will. Simply try exposing two of the same plants to differing conditions. Talk nicely to one, play soothing music. Scream at the other one, play loud jangling music, etc. Within two weeks the difference will be apparent.

[RawNut]

Pain and negative feelings are designed to protect a creature from harm. If you're a plant, you can't exactly escape a harmful situation so it makes no sense for them to "feel" such experiences.

It's interesting though that they seemed to learn. I'll have to get that book.

Craig

[LightLover]

Pain and negative feelings are designed to protect a creature from harm. If you're a plant, you can't exactly escape a harmful situation so it makes no sense for them to "feel" such experiences.

It's interesting though that they seemed to learn. I'll have to get that book.

Craig

~~ I don't agree

**Yes they can escape a harmful situation bij making stuff that is toxic
for the opponents which attack these plants.

** That's why they have a kind of feeling for "pain"/harmfull situations", just to know when they are attacked and when to relaese the toxics.

LL

[Lay-Lay]

hmmm....this is very fishy. Hehe!