Raw dog food

[daisyduke]

I'd like to have my dogs eat a raw food diet. I'm not into cutting up liver and other meat pieces. So I'd rather buy it already made. My dogs have been eating Innova Evo (which is raw in a kibble form). I'd still like to do the real raw food though. Does anyone know where this can be purchased? What are your experiences with raw dog diets? Thanks for sharing.

[vgloveforlife]

Daisy:

I am definitly not into cutting up raw meat either so I buy Nature's Variety (http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.lasso?page=1308&-session=naturesvariety:40DF9A241695a1EA4EyjQ4382CD 7 )
raw medallions. I get it right at my local Humane Society. It's $10 for a 3.5 lb bag.
Here's a link to find out if they sell it near you:

http://www.naturesvariety.com/where.lasso?r=1255724&-session=naturesvariety:40DF9A241695a1EA4EyjQ4382CD 7

Also they offer a free bag when you register:

http://www.naturesvariety.com/tryit/index2.lasso

My dog loves this so much and he has completely healed from his skin problems since he's started this. He likes the Beef most.

[rawpriestess]

I go to the butcher, and buy the "dog food", it comes like hamburger ground up and you can get bones, and such, I ask for the "wild pack" which has grissle, and larger pieces, some hamburger, sinew, cartlidge, all the parts, he loves it.


It costs more than Atta' boy, but he seems so much healthier eating it, and he has his own fridge to keep it in. LOL

[daisyduke]

Thank you for the replies.

Vgforlife - do you rotate between frozen and kibble? Also, do you ever switch between chicken and beef? Thanks.

RP - do you add raw veggies too? Thanks.

[daisyduke]

RP - how much do you feed your dog?

[codajess]

A perk of doing your own is that you get to decide where to purchase the meat from; not buying pre-made stuff, or getting it at the butchers where you're just supporting factory farming and animal cruelty.


I do a lot at once. I buy in bulk from a humanely-raised local farm, I cut it up into individual portions, I grind some with the bone to make sure they get enough, and I grind in the liver/organs too, so I don't have to worry about them eating around it. Then they get big chunks of bone-in sometimes to keep their jaw muscles strong, as well as clean their teeth. I freeze the individual portions (I actually bought a chest freezer just for their meat) and I take out a container every 2 or so days. Today they're eating bone-in quail. I have raw-fed cats, so those bones are perfect to get their jaw muscles built up on; those and smaller chicken bones.


It takes a little more time, but it eases your mind if you actually care about avoiding supporting that industry. If not, this post is a moot point. :)

ETA: and they don't get vegetables or grains. They don't need them.

RawPriestess: Here, you said you feed your dog dry food besides what he gets from the wild. http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=147475&postcount=16
What dry food do you feed, just out of curiosity?
Attaboy is only canned, right?

[Ginger]

I don't care to cut up meat either.. so I don't. I buy already ground meats or just toss my chihuahua puppy a whole small steak on the bone. She won't touch the ground meat anymore now that shes had a taste of the steaks though LOL. The first day I tossed one to her she couldn't quite figure it out so it took her all day but after that she tore em right up. If a baby chihuahua dosn't have a problem with meat not cut up.. chances are your dog will be ok eating it too. Unless it has NO teeth! :D

[Goldsplinter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL2KluuiKck

[Sharon in Colorado]

I'll bet the foodsaver would be a great tool with portioning it out, and keeping it fresh.

[Bingka]

A bit off the thread, but has anyone had a problem with aggression. I have always hand fed, removed the feed bowl, etc.etc. That has always allowed me piece of mind knowing she is not going to bite or growl at anyone at the food bowl. She lets me take her food away at anytime with no problems. I have been feeding her raw and this morning gave a her big bone with lots of meat. Like a t-bone steak. I went to pet her and she growled at me. I immediately downed her and took the bone away. I forced her on her back and yelled at her. I don't know the proper way to deal with this.

All your help will be very appreciated.

Btw - 10 month old female Chocolate Lab.

Thanks Ken

[Goldsplinter]

if she doesn't wanna be pet, she doesn't wanna be pet......

[Helen Of Tennessee]

I get my meat from Wild Oats. They will grind up a whole chicken (in my case 3-6 chickens) bones and all. They are hormone and antibiotic free. I will feed them just the meat if I'm in a hurry. If I have time, I will grind up carrots and lettuce in my food processor and add that to their food. Occasionally I'll add an egg. If I see any dry, white flakes on their coats, I will add a little flaxseed oil or Udo's oil and then their coats will shine and have no dandriff. I try to get the meat on sale and have gotten it at $1.99/lb. For snacks I'll give them whole carrots, or like last night they got a little cantaloupe.

Ken, I have a black lab mix, who is now 9 years old and I haven't had any problems with aggression except if we're out on a walk and a large male dog approaches us. I don't know how to deal with the problem you mentioned, but I do watch the Dog Whisperer, Cesar Millian, on the Discovery Channel and he's great with dealing with these situations. http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/

[boxerali]

I love feeding my dog raw, but a major constraint for me is budget. If you can find a co-op, buy in bulk, or buy on sale, it makes a difference in the cost. I'm not really able to buy in bulk either because I don't have that much room in my fridge or freezer. I've fed with and without grains and vegetables. It's much easier not to feed either, plus dogs really don't need it. However, some people's dogs have done very well on a minimal grain/veggie diet with raw feeding.

My dog does very well on it - her coat is always glossier and smoother when I feed raw. Her eyes are clearer, her breath smells great, and her teeth are pearly white. Backyard clean-up is a breeze.

In addition to raw, I have fed dehydrated raw dog food; grainless dog foods, and foods with grains. My dog's system can handle the dehydrated and grainless food, but cannot handle foods with grains in them.

[mongomango]

Hi Bingka..

Here is a pretty good synopsis of discipline in that situation

http://www.kerryblues.info/index.html?http%3A//www.kerryblues.info/KB/GROWL.HTML

[Bingka]

Thanks for the info. I did what they said by instinct. She has been fine now and she was alowed to enjoy her bone. After our little episode she has now tried to just give the bone to me 6 times without me asking. I think she learned a valuable lesson.

I love feeding my dog a raw diet. If it is the best for us, how acn we argue that it is wrong for a dog....

Thanks Ken

[sigtau66]

Ken,

From what I can gather, it sounds like this was the first time you gave a bone with meat to your dog. If that is the case, what she did was assign this new treat a HIGH priority that, in her mind, was worth protecting. Dogs don't generalize too well. Even though you have spent lots of time taking her bowl away, taking food away, etc. to her this experience was something completely new. In that situation, she reacted as most dogs would when they assign something a high priority. It sounds like she got the picture from how you reacted, so you probably won't have a problem with that again. But in the future, if you give her something new like that, don't assume just because you've done these other things that she will automatically give it up. The safe thing to do is call her to you, make her sit/stay, and then go take it away. Once she shows a calm reaction, praise and give back.

As an aside, I have a 2 yr old Rottweiler that did this exact same thing when he was about 5 months old. I gave him a soup bone for the first time and basically he went psycho on me even though he allowed me to take his food bowl away whenever. Other than that one time, he's never displayed any outwards signs about food like that ever. I think he got the signal that day. :)

[rawnora]

Ken,
It's true what was said about your dog seeing the bone as more valuable than dog food, and not generalizing her previous training with the food bowl to the bone. It is not wise to answer aggression with aggression, however. It only sends your dog the message that you're willing to fight, which can escalate the aggression. Cesar Milan does this occasionally and I don't agree with his methods in those cases. Of course it's always better to deal with the situation preventatively. While your dog is chewing on a bone, walk by and drop tidbits of something even better like bites of steak or dehydrated liver. Later you can sit next to her and have her take the bites out of your hand. If you do this a few times, she will not be threatened by your proximity to her food. When she's reliably friendly while she's eating, you can have friends and/or other members of your household do the same, so she gets the message that when humans approach, good things will happen.

Helen,
Chickens are bred to carry much more muscle and fat than dogs are adapted to consume. The ratio of bone to meat on a prey animal is much higher than domestically raised fowl. When you have the chickens ground whole, your animals are getting all the fat and meat that you could remove if you fed whole parts of chickens. I feed something called chicken "frames", which is basically what is left of a chicken breast after the meat is cut away. They are very cheap but sometimes difficult to find. I balance this with a weekly feeding of lean steak or Cornish game hen with only the fat trimmed away.

It is also not healthful for animals to have their food chewed for them. Chewing keeps teeth clean and signals the stomach to start secreting digestive fluids.

Starchy veggies like carrots are not good for dogs, either. You may notice that they come out pretty much the same way they go in. That's because dogs have even less capacity for breaking down starch and cellulose than we do. Fruits are a different story. Apples, berries, melons and other fruits are great for dogs and are easily digested. Lettuce is probably fine too but it needs to be pureed very finely. For greens I've started putting wheat grass in my blender with a couple eggs. I feed this only once a month or less, in addition to fruit when my dog seems to want it.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but oils are as harmful to dogs as they are to us. The fact that they are eliminated through the skin and thereby disguise the flakiness is not evidence that they're doing something beneficial. I'd look for the cause of the flakiness, and remove it. Considering you're feeding lots of meat, perhaps it's an imbalance of meat to bone. I found that removing as much fat as I possibly could from my dog's diet cleared up his skin problems.

Hope this is helpful!

Warm wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[Bingka]

I have done most of what is suggested. It is working great. She now almost wants to share the meal with me. She gets her bone from her food dish and runs to me and eats at my feet. Tail wagging the whole time.

I don't believe in hitting or hurting my dog. But I disagree on not using force sometimes. A quick, deliberate, forceful correction is a tool. Look at animals in the wild. They don't discuss the problem or get treats. The animal is usaully forcefully bitten and submitted.

I will start to have friends do the same thing as suggested with the food.

She has had small beef bones before, but that was the first meaty bone for a meal!

She also eats alot of fruits and other things with us. Example = cucumbers, all sweet fruit, some avocado (very little). Her favorite is white nectarine currently.

Thanks for all the great advice....

Ken

[daisyduke]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I bought some of those organic chicken medallions. My dogs loved them. I also bought them organic chicken necks. I think I am quickly surpassing my husband as the favorite in the house. They really really enjoyed this. Thanks for the suggestions.

[luckitri]

I am starting. I got some gizzards and hearts cut up already and fed them by hand. The one dog inhaled them! I will have to look into chicken "frames" and organic. If they love it so much how could it be bad for them? I used to get them the bones but it suddenly went up in price to $7 and $8 for 2 bones maybe 4 inches each!

[rawnora]

I don't believe in hitting or hurting my dog. But I disagree on not using force sometimes. A quick, deliberate, forceful correction is a tool. Look at animals in the wild. They don't discuss the problem or get treats. The animal is usaully forcefully bitten and submitted.
Ken

Ken,
It's a little more complicated than that. When senior dogs chastize underlings in the wild, they have several advantages. Their superior position is already secure, and they know how to communicate precisely what needs to be said. Humans can pull if off if they know what they're doing, but this takes more experience and knowledge than most people have. It's risky, even for an expert. I've had to use forceful correction too but more often I do it out of frustration than from knowing it's the best thing to do. I can attest to the fact that it does not work as well as patience, understanding and prevention. Treats and other rewards are the surest way that humans have of making their desires known to dogs.

Luckitri,
You might try the asian markets for frames. I get mine at Uwajimaya in Seattle and that's the only place I've ever seen them. Maybe call around to some meat markets. If you can't get frames, you can shop around for cheap chicken breasts and cut away half the meat, or feed game hens (they are not so heavy on fat and muscle). The excess meat on regular chickens is the problem -- it helps if you have meat eating family members, friends or neighbors. I use it to make dog treats for my dog care business.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[daisyduke]

RawNora:

So, from what I've read in previous posts (please correct me if I'm wrong):

1) You don't recommend getting the meat ground

2) Too much fat is a bad thing or too much meat is a bad thing?

Sorry I'm confused! Please help!

[rawnora]

RawNora:
So, from what I've read in previous posts (please correct me if I'm wrong):
1) You don't recommend getting the meat ground
2) Too much fat is a bad thing or too much meat is a bad thing?
Sorry I'm confused! Please help!

Hi,
1) Correct.
2) Both. I trim ALL trimmable fat and 1/2 the flesh from domestic chickens.

Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[daisyduke]

Okay, thank you!

[carolg]

I'm luck to be in a free membership coop where we can get meat at great prices so I go with the ground mix (which is like a hamburger mix) as well as backs for my one and only dog who hates veggies or anything associated with the word. She is smart enough to guard my veggie garden from the rabbits.

She is super healthy from what we know 5 or so years raw...we do freeze the bulk buying in smaller packages, freeze and when we need her meat we defrost that same day or night before.

No bad breath, skink, vet bills, etc. makes me a believer I am on the right road. Good luck to all. There are raw books for dogs out there too if need more techincal information as well as yahoo groups that I know of.

[luckitri]

In 10 days of doing this my fat old dog that has been losing his teeth is actually visibly getting his younger shape back! He is more energetic but part of that is because the weather has cooled off. Everything about him is better. He can breathe better. He is running around and barking when the other dogs do!

[Bingka]

Rawnora - Thank you for all your great advice. I am learning more every day.

I have been doing some research. My dogs poop turns white and ashy. It scared me at first, but after some research it seems that it is a good thing. There is no stink, no flies, solid, and can be stepped on and added to the lawn. If it is true than my dog is getting optimal ratios of meat, bone, fat, veggies, etc.

Any other opinions?

Ken

[rawnora]

Rawnora - Thank you for all your great advice. I am learning more every day.

I have been doing some research. My dogs poop turns white and ashy. It scared me at first, but after some research it seems that it is a good thing. There is no stink, no flies, solid, and can be stepped on and added to the lawn. If it is true than my dog is getting optimal ratios of meat, bone, fat, veggies, etc.

Any other opinions?

Ken

Hi Ken,
My pleasure. My dog's feces sometimes turn white too. I think it's just a function of how much bone he's eating at any given time. I don't know what normal dog poop is supposed to look like, so I rather assume it's not important if I have lots of other evidence that he's healthy.

I've been running an interesting experiment with my cat. I was feeding nothing but chicken carcasses (plus organ meats and minimal veggies) for a long time, making sure that both my dog and cat got consumable bone everyday. When my cat was injured a few months ago I thought I'd treat him to some steak. He took to it like crazy so I started feeding it regularly. Now I find that if I feed it too much, he'll refuse to eat but will readily eat chicken. If I stop feeding the steak, feed only chicken for a couple weeks and then feed steak again, he inhales it. It's kind of interesting to see how some animals can self-regulate. Maybe it only works with cats because they are closer to their natural instincts as they retain more of their ability to acquire food if necessary. My dog eats pretty much whatever I put in front of him.

Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[shakti17]

i give my doggie stella and chewie's, plus whatever i eat

[carousel]

goldsplinter, that's an awesome video! very educational!

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi Ken and Nora,


My dogs poop turns white and ashy

My dogs has this too and I never thought much about it, but now when I think back to my other dog, that wasn't fed raw, he never had this. It must be the bones in their diet. Hmmmmm. Interesting.

And Nora, my cats won't eat anything but chicken (with bones). When I try turkey or beef, they turn their noses up to it. My dogs will eat any meats I put before them and some fruits and veggies, although they can be picky with those.

[luckitri]

My dogs poo would be white occasionally for years and they are only just getting raw now. I always wondered what caused this.

[rawnora]

Hi Ken and Nora,
And Nora, my cats won't eat anything but chicken (with bones). When I try turkey or beef, they turn their noses up to it. My dogs will eat any meats I put before them and some fruits and veggies, although they can be picky with those.

Interesting. I haven't tried turkey on my cat but he is crazy for lean steak and liver. Also sometimes the livers I buy are packed in blood and I note that he will really inhale his food if I pour some of the blood over it. (Sorry for the visual. Can you imagine trying to make a case for humans being carnivores? Sheesh.)

Re veggies & dogs, there are some dogs that just eat whatever a human gives them but many dogs can easily discriminate between what they can and can't digest. My own dog won't touch any raw starchy or green leafy vegetable, but loves berries, apples, melon and avocado.

All the best,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[Bingka]

My dog is the same. She won't eat most leafy greens. ANy type of fruit and she loves it.

My cat will eat ground meat and chicken necks. I think I have more of a problem with the temperature. He is a little picky. If it's to cold he won't touch it.

Ken

[luckitri]

bumping because my old dog is doing so great with raw meat! He no longer has those glazed eyes with the silly smile. His intelligence is back. He is trimmer. He is more active. He plays with smarts not just needy for hugs. He is getting like new. My female is finally getting some weight on her. They are both doing so much better! Dh is taking note - the raw dog is much healthier - maybe eventually he will be less resistant to raw for humans.

[Helen Of Tennessee]

My order of "framed" chicken backs came in. 40 pounds worth!!!! And guess what, they must have not understood what I was ordering and I got it with all the meat and skin on it!!!!

I'm not wasting this and since my dogs were/are already eating the whole chicken grounded up, I'm going to just pull the skin off of this batch and feed the bone and meat to them, whole.

I know you said it's natural for them to eat it this way, but I know I'm going to be very nervous as they chow it down this afternoon. I'm sure I"ll be writing back here this evening saying that they, and I, survived. Boy doing something that should be natural should be so simple, but when you spent 50+ years thinking dog food comes all ground and mushed up in cans . . .

Hopefully my next order will be right.

[luckitri]

Hmmmm, I am still just buying the reduced for quick sale. I was buying some chicken but the female absolutely refuses to eat it, ever, so I don't think that I would want a freezer full of it. They eat their food like snakes now unless it has bones in it! I don't know how healthy that is but they just love the meat so much that they inhale it if at all possible! Well the thick sliced does take some chewing.