Blood Sugar Shot Up 200 Pts on Vegetables!

[luckitri]

Obviously we still don't understand.
BS was 180.
1 glass young coconut blend.
1 glass juiced okra mixed with water.
1 glass juiced tomatoes.

He didn't get the kale 'cause he was sick of juice.

BS went up to 380 over the few hours we did this.

I gave him the young coconut to try to keep him from having bacon and eggs and toast. I realize that tomatoes are a fruit but I didn't think they were that high in sugar, nor okra.

He ate alot of bad stuff last night. Is it possible that his Blood Sugar would be at 180 in the am because all the bad stuff he ate hasn't started circulating yet? Maybe after he started moving around a bit the junk from last night affected his sugar?

OK I know that I haven't bought and read the books you all have recommended but he has been too ill to work and so no bucks for books. As soon as he starts getting paid again I do plan on buying and reading. Meanwhile - if anyone can explain to me what is going wrong please help.

Now that his blood sugar has shot up like this after tolerating my juices all a.m. he is argumentative again - telling me that raw and vegetables is not his solution so he has gone out to buy some meat. He has lost some weight recently and strength and it is a shock to see his bulky muscular arms looking more like the average guy but he is also still insisting that we cannot convert the protein and energy we need from plant sources. I must be detoxing still so I am not a good example for him.

Help?

OOPs! Should be in health.

[mongomango]

My mother, when she makes poor eating choices in the evening, will see her sugar very high the following morning, 240-300. I do not think it's wise at such times to have anything sweet until the sugar has stabilized again...and juices all contain sugar (even vegetable juices) that go right into the bloodstream.

People seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. Raw will not be as effective for someone if they continue to cheat and make counterproductive choices when they eat. I am not a doctor by an means, but I have seen this exact thing with my mother time and time again. If she is wholly raw...or even 80% raw without eating refined products, her sugar stabilizes. If she is going out and just has that "little bite" of cake, or that pasta, or whatever it is that shoots the sugar up...then it is going to take her a day or two on raw to stabilize again. It's a process of healing...like a wound...it scabs up..looking good, then you tear the scab off...uh oh...not so good, over and over again. It takes time to heal, more than just a couple months, it may take years. All symptoms may be gone but you're still not fully healed. One must dedicate themselves to getting well and follow the program or else it will take a much longer time to happen...or may not happen at all.

I wish your family well!

[Sheryl]

The young thai coconuts are quite high in sugar... it could have been that.

[juliebove]

Okay... Let me start by stating that I will be using the abbreviation BG (blood glucose) simply because that is the one we generally use on various diabetes newsgroups and forums. To me, BS is something else and it involves a bull. Heh!

First, 180 is too high. With BG like that he should consume as few carbs as possible. In a raw diet that would mean some nuts or seeds and if that wasn't food for him, then some low carb veggies like celery, lettuce, mushrooms, onions, broccoli, or whatever he prefers. I can't even do the veggies in the morning because it's too many carbs for me. The body is the most insulin resistant in the morning so most of us diabetics need to eat less carbs then. My normal breakfast is a handfull of pumpkin seeds or maybe walnuts. Flax crackers are another option provided they are not overly sweet with agave or dried fruit. I just took some flax crackers to my dad (who also has diabetes) and showed him how I eat them in the morning. I break off about a 1" piece and eat that. No more. The flax provides some fiber to keep you full.

I don't know what (if any) your husband is on. That would affect what he eats. If he is on something like acting like Metformin/Glucophage, Actos, Avandia, Glipizde, etc. then those meds designed to work over time and not affect a single meal so much.

If he is taking a more short acting med like Starlix or Pradin, those are designed to help with that one meal. They get in and out of your system in a period of a few short hours. But they are designed to work with starchy carbs only. I don't think there is a lot of starch you could eat on a raw diet, unless I am missing something. Perhaps corn or potatoes (if you like them raw). But if you eat fruit as your carb, then these types of meds are of no use to you. There is another type of med called Acarbose (might go by other names) but it too works only on the starchy carbs and not the sugary ones like fruits.

When you juice something (be it fruit or veg) you are extracting the natural sugars in that food and leaving out all or most of the fiber. A non-diabetic could drink this juice with no problem. But for a diabetic, this means raising BG quickly. This is why juice is so often given for hypos (low BG). So for now, I'd say he should have no juice whatever, except perhaps in those recipes where it calls for a small amount of juice mixed in. Lemon and lime juice are exceptions to this because they do not contain a lot of natural sugar. I believe celery juice is also lower in carbs but I can't say with certainty.

My dad just went throgh some sort of diabetic classes and was told to have no juice whatever. Only whole fruits and vegetables. However he also somehow got it into his mind about eating lots of fruits. But he learned the hard way after dinner last night that one can not eat a large peach on top of a lot of other carb laden stuff. The bulk of our meal was an assortment of raw vegetables, some of which came from our garden. However, he felt this was not enough for him and my mom was concerned that he needed more protein. So he said he wanted 1 cup of cottage cheese. I pointed out to him that this was 10g of carbs right there. And then he wanted the peach. Those two things right there would probably add up to his allotted 45g of carbs, but he then ate some bread, then more bread, tried my daughters rice chips, had some hummus, falafel, some olives and then the raw veggies. This stuff all adds up. His BG went from 103 to 208 for that one meal. As you can see, if a diabetic takes in too many carbs, this is what happens.

Now you said that he ate a lot of "bad things" but you didn't specify what those things were. The type/composition of the food really makes a difference. As Doe said, fat plays a factor. Prior to injectable insulin, diabetics were put on an all fat diet to prolong their lives. It didn't prolong them a lot and they still died a miserable death. But the Drs. knew that fat wouldn't raise BG. And it doesn't. By itelf. But add carbs in there and there is trouble! Fat delays the absorption of carbs. So a little bit of fat in a meal is a good thing. But eat too much fat and those carbs that you eat do not get into your system at the 2 hour mark like you want them to. This is especially important to a diabetic who uses insulin because this can lead to a hypo at about 2 hours after eating. They eat more carbs to treat the hypo, then *wham*those carbs from the meal hit their system and they are left with super high BG! Actually you don't have to use insulin to have this happen.

Alcohol is another baddie. It acts like a fat in the way it is metabolized but it seems to be even more slow acting, sometimes causing hypos the following day. This is why if a diabetic chooses to drink, the dietician will instruct him or her to treat the alcohol as a fat when factoring it into their diet. And to limit the drink to one or possibly two if the person is very large.

Keep in mind that when BG goes high, the person can be out of sorts. Argumentative is a common description. I have to try to avoid people when mine is high because I will tend to blow up over the slightest little thing. Hunger is another symptom of high BG because the body is essentially starving due to the cells being coated with sugar and the nutrients from the food not being able to get in. Exercise can lower BG but one must use caution at about the 220 mark because much over that and exercise can be dangerous, causing dehydration and possibly DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis). He might consider taking the supplement bitter melon (momordica) to bring BG down quickly. It seems to work for me, but I try not to take it very often because I am not convinced of its safety. In the meantime he should drink lots of water to help thin down his blood and to rest.

At 380, he might also need to go to the hospital. He is really in danger territory and might need to be given some insulin to bring his BG down quickly.

Also keep in mind that there is more to BG than the food we eat. Many things can affect it like stress, illness and hormonal fluctuations. If he is not working, this is an obvious source of stress.

As for the meat, this is a mixed bag. Some use the theory that we should limit our protein intake because excess protein can stress our kidneys. Others use the low carb approach that often (but doesn't have to) include meat. Personally, I do not feel well if I eat meat or too much protein, but I realize we are all different. I wouldn't worry too much about him eating meat if it is what makes him feel better and brings his BG down. At this point he needs to get it down and keep it down and then once he has you can go back to making adjustments to the diet.

I also strongly suggest that you check out one of the diabetes newsgroups, although Sundays are a slow day there. There are some vegans and also some faw foodists who post there. alt.support.diabetes is the one that gets the most traffic.

[Sheryl]

One thing... young coconut is not high in fat... it's carb based. Only when it's mature is it higher in fat.

[luckitri]

Thank you....I will read this aloud to him. He had red meat, refried beans from a can and corn chips last night.

[juliebove]

Thank you....I will read this aloud to him. He had red meat, refried beans from a can and corn chips last night.

The refried beans and corn chips are probably the culprit because of the carbs in them. The meat would not have affected his BG by much. Yes, protein does raise BG but at a much lesser amount than carbs do.

When I was first diagnosed, refried beans were a staple in my diet. I bought either the vegetarian or no fat canned ones or made my own. When I made my own, I added plenty of bell pepper and onion, chopped to the size of the dried pinto beans. I added a bit of olive oil as they cooked. After the beans were tender, I then added as much salt as they needed and whatever (if any) seasonings I wanted. Usually chili powder or cumin, perhaps some black pepper or cayenne. Mash with a potato masher and add more olive oil if needed. I would make a big pot of these each week, reheating as necessary in the microwave. I would usually eat these with one of two tortillas (depending on type and size) or some corn chips, maybe 8-12 (again, depending on type of size), amounting to about 45g (lunch or dinner) of carb after subtracting out the fiber. This was always eaten with plenty of raw veggies unless it was my bedtime snack and then I ate less raw veggies and only 30g of carb.

Another idea to lessen the carbs is to take assorted bell peppers and cut them into sort of chunky "chips". Cut them down from the top, wending your way around the seeds. You'll then have sort of "cup" shapes that can be cut down smaller if necessary. You can cut them in strips or triangles. These can be used instead of corn chips to scoop up the beans.

For a totally raw meal, try subbing in sprouted lentils for the refried beans. I think they taste very muck like refried beans. You can mash them slightly and season them if you like. Make the nacho cheese from Alissa's book. Yes, it does use an orange, but that's one orange for the whole recipe. Use it without dehydrating as a dip, or dehydrate just to where it thickens and use it as a spread to pack into raw vegetables. I just LOVE Mexican food and these things work for me.

I also highly recommend the onion bread recipe that has been posted here a few times, if you have a dehydrator. Everyone I know who has tried it has loved it, even my onion hating mom and daughter. Although it is called "bread: because that is what it looks and tastes like, it is very low in carbs because the main ingredients are onions, sunflower seeds, flax seeds and olive oil.

[luckitri]

juliebove, you are the Best! The RAW for Diabetics Specialist! Thank you everyone else too!

[luckitri]

Now that it is cooling off I will have to revisit that onion bread recipe. I have seen postings where people found difficulty with it. Hopefully in a couple of weeks hubby will start getting paid again and I can get a few things I want for my birthday starting with Alissa's first of course. I owe Alissa alot for this wonderful website where I have learned so much and found support and answers. OK, I don't want to get too political as I really haven't looked into it much but I support free internet and I would hate to lose this forum.