Raw Food and Diabetes?

[Gambit&Samus]

I have been transitioning in to raw for the past month and have had a great experience. Recently my mother has been diagnosed with type II(?) diabetes the one you can get if you are overweight. I suggested she start to incorperate more raw into her diet. I don't know if having too much fruit will hurt her. Does anybody heard of raw helping with the diabetes???

[lissomllama]

Yes, raw is actually notorious for curing type II diabetes. It also cures Type I diabetes. There is all sorts of information out there about it. I say, do a search. Go watch the raw food video at http://www.rawfor30days.com .

[juliebove]

There is no CURE for diabetes! Whenever I see this I really lose it. People with type 1 do not produce any insulin. Eating raw food is not going to make them produce insulin! If they stop taking insulin they will die. I've often heard about people who are no longer using insulin as though they are cured. Those people never had type 1 to start with.

People with type 2 may or may not need insulin and/or meds. Many factors come into play here. There are really over 300 types of diabetes, yet we are all lumped into either type 1, type 2, or gestational.

As for the part about type 2 being something people can get if overweight, I believe this is a misnomer. Anyone can get diabetes no matter their weight. Type 2 in and of itself often causes a person to BECOME overweight and the average person with type 2 has gone 10+ years before they are diagnosed.

Type 2 has two factors. One is insulin resistance. The other is an insulin problem. We either don't produce enough, or we produce too much and our body can't use it properly because of the insulin resistance. There is one school of thought that the insulin resistance (and excess insulin in our system) can cause us to put on weight, especially around the middle.

So what to do? First get the blood sugar down. If we don't do that, our hunger will rage out of control. Why? When our blood sugar is high, sugar coats our cells and because of this coating, the food that we eat simply can't get into our system. We can eat and eat and yet our body is starving. But if we take in too many calories, we put on weight. That coupled with insulin resistance makes for a bad combo.

How to get blood sugar down? Depends on how high the blood sugar is and how long it has been high for. That's where the A1c comes into play. This test tracks our blood cells back 2-3 months to see how glycoslated they are. In other words, how much sugar is stuck to them. If the A1c is below 7.0, that's considered a pretty good number, but it does depend on the lab. There is no standard number for A1c. If over 7.0 it usually indicates that the blood sugar has been high for a while and immediate action needs to be taken. Sometimes the person will be given insulin. Why insulin you say? Because there is something called glucotoxicity. In other words poisoning from high blood sugar. If we don't get rid of this "poison" then we can't get our blood sugar back down where it should be. Sometimes injecting insulin is the only way. But for a type 2, it's usually a temporary thing. They might need high doses of insulin (perhaps given in the hospital) for a day or two until their blood sugar is closer to normal numbers.

Most Drs. do not like to give a type 2 insulin in the beginning because as I mentioned before, excess insulin has its own problems. It can also cause heart problems in addition to excess weight. But upon diagnosis some of us are in a life and death situation. Without insulin to bring down those high numbers, we could slip into DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) and that can be fatal. We are also at risk for other bad things like nerve damage, kidney failure, blindness or dehydration. So blood sugar needs to be brought down as quickly as we can do it.

Pills seem to be the first line of defense for many Drs., although some prefer to start with the diet and exercise approach and add meds only if that isn't enough. There are seveal classes of meds that can be used. Each with its own benefits and possible risks. Most Drs. will start with Metformin/Glucophage because it helps overcome insulin resistance. However it can cause stomach upset and for that reason some people can't take it.

Other drugs cause the body to put out more insulin either as a long acting or short acting thing. I won't really get into all the particulars of that since that wasn't really the question asked. And if all the various combinations of meds have been used to no avail, then insulin will be added. If a type 2 must use insulin, they must use a LOT more of it than a type 1 would have to. That's because of their insulin resistance.

Now on to diet. First let me say that most diabetics do not try to amend their diet. There are a number of reasons for this. First, many Drs. assume that we won't make any changes so they don't mention it to us. They know that taking a pill or two every day isn't going to do much for us if we don't change our diet, but they figure it's better than nothing.

Many diabetics are in a state of denial. They might tell people that they have diabetes but deep down they don't believe it. Mainly because they don't feel any ill effects of it. This was not the case with me. In my case, I had neuropathy (nerve damage) in my lower legs and feet. I couldn't walk. This is what led to my diagnosis. I wasn't in denial, but some of my family was. I remember calling my mother and telling her that I had diabetes and her response was, "No you don't!" Then my brother was diagnosed and my dad more recently. No denial by the time he was diagnosed, although he had pancreas issues prior and had been warned that it was only a matter of time for him and that he really needed to test his blood sugar and watch his diet. He didn't. I guess he figured he cheated death once so he was going to eat whatever he dang well wanted!

Alas, this is the case with many older people. They can't believe that the foods they ate all their lives like bread, could now be causing them harm. Younger people also tend not to see a problem. They want to eat what their friends are eating and such.

Sometimes people even have major complications from diabetes and still go into denial. I've seen it happen time and time again.

And then there are the many misconceptions of diet that are rampant among us, including medical professionals. Most Drs. are not experts on diet and neither are nurses. And yet they are the ones who give us dietary advice! When I had gestational diabetes, one of my nurses told me to eat lots of soup and fruit. Probably the worst advice she could have given. Soup is fine provided I make my own and know what I'm putting in it. I've even seen some ready made soups that are low enough in carbs and junk like high fructose corn syrup and trans-fats to make them suitable for many diabetics provided they watch their portion size.

Now fruit is another matter. Here on this board I've seen people make the distinction between sweet fruits and non sweet fruits. True enough. But I am going to revert back to the good old diabetic exchange plan of eating that categorizes each food as either fruit, vegetable, starch, fat or protein. By this plan, a tomato would be a vegetable because it is lower in carbs than say a banana. And even among the fruits there is great variation in how they affect the blood sugar. Even among diabetics, there is great variation! Most of us find we can't eat a banana, ever. Some people find they can eat maybe 1/2 or 1/4 a banana later in the day when insulin resistance is lower. For most of us insulin resistance is highest when we wake up so we must eat less carbs then. Some people find they can eat berries with no problem but can't eat melon. It's very much an individual thing.

Fruit juice is often given to us when we have a hypo. (low blood sugar) because it gets into our system quickly and raises blood sugar quickly. For this reason, we generally don't drink it unless we do need to raise our blood sugar quickly.

Sounds somewhat easy, but there is so much more to it than that!

First, let me address the insulin resistance. Some things that can bring that down (aside from meds) are exercise, building muscles, weight loss and eating a low carb, high fiber diet. For many diabetics, a weight loss as slight as 10 pounds brings their insulin resistance down enough to where they need less meds or perhaps no meds at all.

Then there's the issue of getting blood sugar down and keeping it down. Lowering the carbs you eat is one way of doing this. Exercise is another, but for some diabetics it can cause a rise in blood sugar followed by a drop. So it's a very delicate balance.

How then to achieve what we want? These days there is no standard diabetic diet. If you go to a dietician you might be told any number of things. My dad is going soon to diabetic education so it will be interesting to hear what he is told now. I have a collection of diabetic food books and information dating back to the 1960s. Not sure they knew much prior to that about diet except to tell people to avoid sugar. This was the motto until about the 1980s when it was finally realized that it was the carbs we ate that raised our blood sugar and not sugar itself. Yes, sugar WILL raise blood sugar but is no worse in terms of raising blood sugar than a banana or piece of white bread.

About 9 years ago, I had gestational diabetes. I was told to eat a low fat diet with plenty of fruits and vegetables, enough protein and enough carbs. A formula was devised based on my height and weight.

Later when I was breast feeding, the dietician told me to eat slightly less protein and carbs. But pretty much the same diet.

Later still when the actual diagnosis of type 2 came about, I was told to eat less protein because "most of us eat too much". This is a rather silly notion but the sad thing is, diabetics are more prone to kidney damage than people without diabetes. If you DO have kidney damage you need to be on a restricted protein diet. However, being that I've been found to have protein in my urine, this is something I've been studying. Unless an actual kidney problem has been diagnosed it is not a good idea to severely restrict our protein intake.

So now a wee bit of my dietary background, starting with after I'd been diagnosed with type 2.. I'd been eating a vegetarian diet. Breakfast was cottage cheese or an egg and two slices of toast, lightly buttered. Occasionally a peanut butter sandwich. But diabetes is a progressive disease and as the years went by, my insulin resistance went up. No more toast for me! Occasionally I'd be able to have a couple of bites of fruit with my breakfast, or a piece of cracker. But mainly it was just protein and fat. I even tried to add vegetables to my egg but found that was too many carbs for me that early in the morning.

Lunch was usually a couple of bean tacos with cheese and a ton of raw vegetables.

Dinner was usually a large salad of raw vegetables, some kidney or other dried beans, some nuts, and if my blood sugar was low enough, some other form of carbs, like a small piece of chocolate.

My bedtime snack was usually popcorn and a piece of cheese. Or some crackers topped with cheese, onion and tomato.

I'm very much a creature of habit and it was no problem for me to eat the same meals over and over again. My family wants more variety though and sometimes I'd just be too tired or busy to make one meal for myself and another for them at dinner time. Lunch was no biggie since I cooked up a pot of beans at once and that lasted the week. I always had cut up veggies in the fridge. Making a salad wasn't that hard or time consuming either, but sometimes I'd just make one meal and eat what they were eating out of simple exhaustion. I should add that I have additional medical problems aside from diabetes. So I might make pizza, pierogies, ravioli, mac and cheese, etc. My husband is a big meat eater. Daughter not so much. She prefers not to eat it most of the time. So I'd usually make something as a side dish for him, main dish for us and add some meat for him.

Well, then I got chronic anemia. Tried the b12 shots. Didn't help. The only thing that did help was eating red meat. Gah! I didn't want to but if I didn't do it once or twice a week the anemia wouldn't go away.

Struggled along for a few more years fiddling with the diet as need be. Then my daughter was diagnosed with food allergies. Then my mom. So I got tested. Allergic to dairy, eggs and almonds! Did some research. Learned that dairy allergy can CAUSE anemia. Light bulb went off in my head! But what then could I eat? Sure I could still have the beans but they're high in carbs. My low carb protein sources, cheese and eggs were no longer. And I didn't want to eat meat. Hoped I wouldn't have to if I gave up the dairy.

Began making changes in my diet again. Someone suggested pumpkin seeds as a source of protein. I thought I didn't like them very much but I'd only ever tried them roasted. In fact I don't like them roasted. But raw was another matter! I loved them and they are my breakfast now almost every morning. If my blood sugar allows, I will have a bit of fruit (usually grapefruit) along with the seeds for breakfast. Occasionally I'll have some nuts of some kind for breakfast.

Next I tried making sprouts. I hated the mung and alfalfa type that my mom made when I was a kid. But I loved chickpea, pea, lentil, radish and others. And amazingly radish sprouts are high in protein!

Then I read a magazine article written by Carole Alt, the model. She mentioned a raw food diet and how she had lost so much weight on it. How her medical problems went away. Actually now that I think about it, I think I read this prior to the sprouts, but it's late and I'm sleepy and the point in which I read this doesn't much matter. I bought her book. Can't say that I care for her version of a raw diet, but I was interested enough to buy other people's books, including Alissa's.

I began losing weight. I began looking better. People began to notice. I added raw coconut oil to my diet. If anything, I've noticed the most extreme benefits from that. People are asking me about my diet and are listening to me. Not only people I already know but strangers are stopping me and complimenting me on how I look! So it is working!

Now I will say that I am still not 100% raw. Some days I am, but other days I might still eat popcorn or olives that I know are not raw. Right now I'm going through a very stressful time and my point of view right now is just to eat as much raw stuff as I can and not to sweat it if I can't. I know in the coming months things will be less busy for me. I will have seen my Dr. again and hopefully will have more things sorted out.

As you can see, the diet I was eating from the start was pretty high in raw vegetables. In fact I was told by all three of the dieticians I saw that I was eating too many vegetables. I can understand why they might push us to eat grains because grains are high in certain vitamins or minerals or whatever. But... My daughter is allergic to wheat and gluten so we don't bring that stuff into the house with the exception of specific things my husband asks for. It's just easier that way and I feel safer in knowing she won't accidentally eat something that might make her sick. Grains like wheat are the very things that raise our blood sugar! So I don't personally think I need them, but I do make sure to eat those foods that will give me what I am lacking and also to supplement if I can't.

Both my GP and my Endo. are very pleased with how my lab work came out, particularly the cholesterol. Very pleased with my weight loss. I am the atypical diabetic. I am the one who goes to the buffet restaurant and piles the salad on her plate and very little else! Why? Because not only is it working for me but I FEEL so much better! But the thing is, it didn't come instantly. I remember wailing at having to give up dairy because I loved cheese so much. And for those first two weeks as I detoxed, I wondered at times why I was giving it up because I felt so cruddy. And then I woke up 12 pounds less. Stomach wasn't bloated. Weird skin problems went away. I had energy. Could think straight! So now there is no way I will take the chance of eating anything that I think might have even touched a piece of cheese or anything else I am allergic to!

As for the raw aspect... I have always loved raw vegetables. And in most cases it's easier to eat them raw than to cook them. No biggie there. Not sure I'm really thrilled with a lot of the recipes I've tried for dehydrated foods and such but I am finding more and more that I like. Bottom line is if I don't like it, I'm not going to eat it! This is why so many diabetics can't stick to the diet they know they should eat. That and they want to take the easy way out. It's far easier to order a pizza online than it is to put together a salad. The person has to WANT to do it. If they want it, that's most of the battle there.

If you are worried about your mom doing a raw diet, I'd suggest you try this. Give her a meal consisting of a sandwich on whatever bread she likes with tomato lettuce and cheese (if she eats it). Or just put on an ounce or two of whatever kind of protein she does eat. Have her eat a salad and some dressing if she wants, or a cooked vegetable along with it. A couple of small cookies or pieces of candy for dessert. Have her test her blood sugar before eating the meal and then two hours later.

Then give her the same meal using all raw recipes. Onion bread with nut cheese, lettuce and tomato. I guarantee that she'll like the onion bread. Everyone I've given it to has. Ditto for the "Swiss" cheese that I made. Have her eat a green salad with raw dressing or some raw veggies and then a piece of RP's brownies or maybe a couple of lemon chews. Have her test her blood sugar before eating and again two hours later. I'll be willing to bet her blood sugar will be fine after the raw meal (assuming it wasn't too high to start with), but it might be too high after the other meal. She will also probably feel more satisfied after the raw meal.

Another thing to keep in mind is the serving size of fruits and vegetables for a diabetic. Vegetables are 1/2 cup cooked or 1 cup raw. Fruits are about the same, although it depends on the fruit. For instance, 1/2 of a small banana or 10 grapes is a serving. As you can see, we are able to eat more of it in the raw form than the cooked. Of course this is because it mushes down and such when cooked. But it takes longer to chew it while raw and and it takes any food about 20 minutes to hit the stomach.

Now your mom might not be able to do a lot of banana smoothies or fruit juice. But she probably CAN eat the Nacho Cheese that contains one orange per recipe. And she might not be able to eat endless amounts of fruit. But most likely she will start losing weight and soon realize that her diabetes is a lot easier to control. Yes, control. Not cure. I know one type 2 who is a runner. She has never taken diabetes meds and has been using diet and exercise to control her diabetes for the past 10 years or so. Her numbers are always in the normal range. If she went to a new Dr., the new Dr. might think she didn't have diabetes. But all she has to do is eat more carbs than her body can handle and her blood sugar shoots up.

If your mom is resistant to trying a raw diet, then at least urge her to include more raw vegetables in it.

[Gambit&Samus]

juliebove

Thank you so much for all of the information and advice. I am encouraging her as much as possible I have given her some raw books to read. I am going to try your suggestions with her. Thank you again. =)

[Lay-Lay]

Juliebove, I know someone personally that is a raw foodist and he was type 1 diabetic (I KNOW he was) and he no longer takes insullin. Would I say he is "cured" I don't use that term, but he is no longer effected by his condition. Here is his story:

http://www.livingfoodinstitute.com/testimonials.htm

Ransford (Randy) M. Hyman Sr.

“THE MIRACLE”

My name is Randy, and I am writing this living testimonial article, of the experience I have adopting the living foods life style. I am a 62 year old Electrical/Mechanical Engineer. I ran a very successful business from 1974 to 1981. My business, as construction contractor, was worth well over 3.5 million dollars. In January 1981, I was forced file chapter 11 bankruptcy, for none payment of contracts. My chapter 11 was later converted to chapter 7 by one of my debtors who owe me over $10,000.00. I hired one of the largest Law firms in Atlanta, to represent me, with a $45,000.00 lien on my home, which couldn’t help me with reorganization plan, but was able to collect on the lien. You know how I felt then, “Very, Very upset”. April 22nd. 1981, I had a head on collision with dump truck and my Cadillac, which totaled the car with me in it. Three days later, after frequent urination, the doctor diagnoses me, as a diabetic. Let the treatments begin. No pills, no diets, or doctors could stop the culprit. “See the results”.

I have been a diabetic for over 20 years. 1984, I was put on insulin. I have taken as much as 110 units a day within the first nine-month. Doctors will not agree that too much insulin was administrated, which causes my kidney damages.

1986, I was told I have kidney failure, of which I was put on dialysis in 1995, and 1997 I received a kidney transplant. At one time, I took up to 28 pills a day, at a cost of over $2,500.00 per month. “Poor people cannot afford to be sick”.

Just imagine if you have no insurance and have to maintain a kidney transplant? Dialysis cost over $400.00 per day, transplant cost $140,000.00, pills cost over $2,500.00 per month, total over $540,000.00 over a 6 years period. Think about that. Ever since I had my kidney transplant, my blood sugar averages about 200 to150 daily. Always fluctuating. On May 3rd I attended a seminar at Living Food Institute, and I was convinced that’s the way to go. From May first to may 5th, my blood sugar runs between 194 and 148. I have been taking 75 units of insulin each day. Monday may 5th, I started the class. That day my blood sugar average 108. I took 75 units of insulin that morning. Day 2 I took 30 units of insulin, that day my blood sugar average 51. Day 3 I took 20 units of insulin, that day my blood sugar average 87. Can you see what Living Foods Institute can do for you?

Day 4 I took 10 units of insulin, my blood sugar average 50. Day 5 I took 10 units of insulin, my blood sugar average 96. Day 6 I took 10 units of insulin, my blood sugar average 99. Day 7 I took 10 units of insulin, my blood sugar average 142. Day 8 I took 15 units of insulin, my blood sugar average 96. In 7 days Living Foods has cut my insulin intake by over 62%. Is this a MIRACLE or what?

I am now insulin free and have been since completing the 10-Day Course in May 2003.

LIVING FOODS not only heal you Nutritionally, but there are positive and spiritual healing as well. If you suffer from diabetes, high blood pressure, kidney failure, cancer, impotence, chronic pains and all other illnesses, consult LIVING FOODS Institutes. I can testify to that. This was my condition and testimony during my 10 days with the Living Foods Life Style. Before I adopted the living foods life style, I could only walk 100 feet the doctors told me I needed a hip replacement, I couldn’t make a fist because of arthritis in my arms and fingers, I couldn’t lay on my back because I couldn’t breath, I kept a steady head cold, I could carry 8 lbs. 20 feet, to be honest, I had just about two weeks to live. Now, ninety days later, I have walked 6 miles, lift 60 lbs. 30 times repetition. I lose 40 lbs. no more colds, no more arthritis, and no more hip pains. I believe I am a very normal person now, except for muscle strength. Thanks to Raw and Living Foods Institute. May God bless Brenda Cobb, the Miracle Lady! Let keeps praying for her and her staff. You know that Living Foods Institute not only will heal you by changing your eating habits, but heal you physically, mentally, spiritually, and emotionally.

NOTE: Race, color, religion, life style or gender, rich or poor, no one is turned away. “I KNOW BECAUSE I’VE BEEN THERE”. Visit one of the free seminars, and meet BRENDA COBB, the founder. I will be happy to meet with you, to tell you my story personally. Thank you and GOD bless you.

—Signed RANSFORD (RANDY) M. HYMAN. Sr. 8/30/2003

[luckitri]

My husband is type 2 and he has noticed that fruit spikes his sugar badly. He only considered raw when he was desparate - in the short time that he did it his sugar did not come down - now he has a new inhaled insulin and he doesn't care about raw anymore.

[Pailani]

I think that, if you're diabetic, a raw diet can make your sugar spike because of the sugar in the fruit, and fruit is what most people base their raw diet on. A raw diet without fruit isn't really much fun - so maybe that's why he lost interest in eating raw.

[juliebove]

Juliebove, I know someone personally that is a raw foodist and he was type 1 diabetic (I KNOW he was) and he no longer takes insullin. Would I say he is "cured" I don't use that term, but he is no longer effected by his condition. Here is his story:

http://www.livingfoodinstitute.com/testimonials.htm

Ransford (Randy) M. Hyman Sr.

“THE MIRACLE”

My name is Randy, and I am writing this living testimonial article, of the experience I have adopting the living foods life style. I am a 62 year old Electrical/Mechanical Engineer. I ran a very successful business from 1974 to 1981. My business, as construction contractor, was worth well over 3.5 million dollars. In January 1981, I was forced file chapter 11 bankruptcy, for none payment of contracts. My chapter 11 was later converted to chapter 7 by one of my debtors who owe me over $10,000.00. I hired one of the largest Law firms in Atlanta, to represent me, with a $45,000.00 lien on my home, which couldn’t help me with reorganization plan, but was able to collect on the lien. You know how I felt then, “Very, Very upset”. April 22nd. 1981, I had a head on collision with dump truck and my Cadillac, which totaled the car with me in it. Three days later, after frequent urination, the doctor diagnoses me, as a diabetic. Let the treatments begin. No pills, no diets, or doctors could stop the culprit. “See the results”.

I have been a diabetic for over 20 years. 1984, I was put on insulin. I have taken as much as 110 units a day within the first nine-month. Doctors will not agree that too much insulin was administrated, which causes my kidney damages.

1986, I was told I have kidney failure, of which I was put on dialysis in 1995, and 1997 I received a kidney transplant. At one time, I took up to 28 pills a day, at a cost of over $2,500.00 per month. “Poor people cannot afford to be sick”.

Just imagine if you have no insurance and have to maintain a kidney transplant? Dialysis cost over $400.00 per day, transplant cost $140,000.00, pills cost over $2,500.00 per month, total over $540,000.00 over a 6 years period. Think about that. Ever since I had my kidney transplant, my blood sugar averages about 200 to150 daily. Always fluctuating. On May 3rd I attended a seminar at Living Food Institute, and I was convinced that’s the way to go. From May first to may 5th, my blood sugar runs between 194 and 148. I have been taking 75 units of insulin each day. Monday may 5th, I started the class. That day my blood sugar average 108. I took 75 units of insulin that morning. Day 2 I took 30 units of insulin, that day my blood sugar average 51. Day 3 I took 20 units of insulin, that day my blood sugar average 87. Can you see what Living Foods Institute can do for you?

Day 4 I took 10 units of insulin, my blood sugar average 50. Day 5 I took 10 units of insulin, my blood sugar average 96. Day 6 I took 10 units of insulin, my blood sugar average 99. Day 7 I took 10 units of insulin, my blood sugar average 142. Day 8 I took 15 units of insulin, my blood sugar average 96. In 7 days Living Foods has cut my insulin intake by over 62%. Is this a MIRACLE or what?

I am now insulin free and have been since completing the 10-Day Course in May 2003.

LIVING FOODS not only heal you Nutritionally, but there are positive and spiritual healing as well. If you suffer from diabetes, high blood pressure, kidney failure, cancer, impotence, chronic pains and all other illnesses, consult LIVING FOODS Institutes. I can testify to that. This was my condition and testimony during my 10 days with the Living Foods Life Style. Before I adopted the living foods life style, I could only walk 100 feet the doctors told me I needed a hip replacement, I couldn’t make a fist because of arthritis in my arms and fingers, I couldn’t lay on my back because I couldn’t breath, I kept a steady head cold, I could carry 8 lbs. 20 feet, to be honest, I had just about two weeks to live. Now, ninety days later, I have walked 6 miles, lift 60 lbs. 30 times repetition. I lose 40 lbs. no more colds, no more arthritis, and no more hip pains. I believe I am a very normal person now, except for muscle strength. Thanks to Raw and Living Foods Institute. May God bless Brenda Cobb, the Miracle Lady! Let keeps praying for her and her staff. You know that Living Foods Institute not only will heal you by changing your eating habits, but heal you physically, mentally, spiritually, and emotionally.

NOTE: Race, color, religion, life style or gender, rich or poor, no one is turned away. “I KNOW BECAUSE I’VE BEEN THERE”. Visit one of the free seminars, and meet BRENDA COBB, the founder. I will be happy to meet with you, to tell you my story personally. Thank you and GOD bless you.

—Signed RANSFORD (RANDY) M. HYMAN. Sr. 8/30/2003

Uh... He does not say that he has type 1. The use of insulin does not mean that a person has type 1, just as I said. And just because a person who once used insulin stopped using it doesn't mean their diabetes was cured. It just means they no longer need the insulin. And in the case of this guy and the amount of insulin he was using, he has GOT to be a type 2! Type 1's do not need to use nearly that amount of insulin. They inject maybe 2-3 units at a time. Maybe 10-15 max if they're eating a super high carb meal. Nothing like that.

People who use steroids like Prednisone can get a type of diabetes that can go away when they stop using the steroids. They might think themselves cured. But bottom line is they did not have "true" diabetes but a transient form caused by the med. Just as people can have an attack of pancreatitis and need insulin for a while. And then perhaps they don't need it any more. Such was the case with my dad. However, once a person has needed insulin, he or she is at a greater risk to develop real diabetes in the future and needs to be checked often for it.

Halie Berry used to use insulin. She has diabetes. She's not cured. She still has it. She just lost weight and now is on diet and exercise alone.

Remember, people do get things wrong. My elderly friend told me he must have gone from type 1 to type 2 because he was now taking pills and not insulin. Nope. They just put him on insulin way back when many years ago when there weren't as many pill options as there are today. And since he refused to modify his diet in any way, they just left him on the insulin. And then one day he switched Drs. The new Dr. tried him on meds and they worked. Until he had congestive heart failure caused by the med. So they put him on another med.

The herbalist at my health food store tried to tell me she knew of a type 1 who was cured and no longer needs insulin. She said I could meet him myself. That still wouldn't tell me anything. Only his lab report would. And I'll bet you he couldn't whip out a C-Peptide to prove it to me. Just because someone says something doesn't make it so.

Now I suppose I should state that there is such a thing as islet cell transplants. This has been sucessfully done for a very few type 1's and could by some be construed as a cure. However, those folks do not live a carefree life. They must take certain drugs and be monitored on a constant basis. AFAIK this is still in the experimental stage.

Byetta is another thing providing hope for type 2's. It's a synthetic drug injected with meals that mimics the chemical composition of lizard spit. Yuk! I know... But it is purported to help regenerate beta cells.

[juliebove]

I think that, if you're diabetic, a raw diet can make your sugar spike because of the sugar in the fruit, and fruit is what most people base their raw diet on. A raw diet without fruit isn't really much fun - so maybe that's why he lost interest in eating raw.


Well, I eat very little fruit. But then I've never liked fruit and frankly I find it hard to see how a person could find a diet high in fruit to be any fun. Fruit just tastes BAD to me! Well, most of it anyway. I don't care for most sweet foods. I do like apples, pears, grapefruit, lemons and limes. But I can easily do without the first three and usually do. I do occasionally eat dried fruit in tiny quantities, cut up really fine and mixed with nuts. But unsweetened cranberries are what I prefer. And I do like RP's brownies, but I add extra nuts and also coconut and coconut oil to lessen the carb count. I also like the lemon chews but I added very little agave nectar so they're super tart!

[luckitri]

Thanks for your posts juliebove! If raw can cure diabetes why don't the people who have claimed to have done it share how they did it - exactly so others of us who do not have the price of admission to their fancy dancy places can try to heal ourselves and prove that it can be done with a massive amount of healings - not just for the rich! And I don't want to hear that we could come up with the money if we really wanted it - asking a sick person to increase their income when they are suffering is simply ludicrous!

[alex]

Please at least read: The pH Miracle for Diabetes by Robert O. Young


alex

[juliebove]

Thanks for your posts juliebove! If raw can cure diabetes why don't the people who have claimed to have done it share how they did it - exactly so others of us who do not have the price of admission to their fancy dancy places can try to heal ourselves and prove that it can be done with a massive amount of healings - not just for the rich! And I don't want to hear that we could come up with the money if we really wanted it - asking a sick person to increase their income when they are suffering is simply ludicrous!

Exactly. I hang out on the various diabetes newsgroups and we are always getting people on there who are promoting various pills, books, diets, etc. to cure diabetes. It's either send them money via their website or send them an e-mail and they'll tell you more. Reminds me of the time some years ago that I sent for a book that gauranteed that I'd lose weight if I did what it said. Said it wasn't a diet book and they'd give me my money back if it didn't work. Turned out that it WAS a diet book, if you could even call it a book. More like a badly written pamphlet written by some Russian "housewife" who could barely speak English...or so it seemed to me. She told me if I limited my diet to coffee, rusks (one for breakfast, one for lunch) and some broth for dinner I would lose weight. Well, duh! Although this was in the days before the Internet and I had a heck of a time even finding out what rusk was. If you're wondering, it's s little piece of really tough, dried out bread. And there was no getting my money back because the PO box she'd used to take my money had been closed.

People prey on people who have life threatening illnesses because they know at times we get desparate and there are some of us who are willing to try anything we think will make us better.

[romanticsnet]

Juliebove...According to that type of logic, it is like saying "if you do not monitor your obesity, then you will become obese again." Yes, You can apply that logic to all disease... If you do not follow the path to wellness, then we are all at risk for disease and discomfort. So... yes I believe in cures for ALL diseases. But I also believe if you do not follow your "path" you will be back at square one.

[juliebove]

Juliebove...According to that type of logic, it is like saying "if you do not monitor your obesity, then you will become obese again." Yes, You can apply that logic to all disease... If you do not follow the path to wellness, then we are all at risk for disease and discomfort. So... yes I believe in cures for ALL diseases. But I also believe if you do not follow your "path" you will be back at square one.

Well, you can go ahead and believe that. But you can not prove that there is a cure for diabetes. If there was, there wouldn't be so many of us out here! Your "logic" is not what I said at all.

Diabetes is a metabolic disorder in which the body is unable to process carbohydrates normally. That part does not go away no matter what. For years, Drs. kept telling me I did not have diabetes despite various symptoms I was having. Why? Because when they tested me, my numbers were in normal range. I know I am not alone. I've spoken to many people who were in the same situation. We now have complications from the diabetes because it was not treated for so long. Had those Drs. given us the OGTT, they would have seen high numbers. But they did not. They did either random or fasting tests.

And how can one "monitor" obesity? You either are obese or you are not. Obesity is not a disease. It can be a symptom. Or it can simply be a matter of making the wrong food choices and/or lack of exercise. If you are obese and lose enough weight to where you are not, then you could monitor your food intake but you would not longer be obese.

[light food]

Ever heard of milk causing diabetes? There are lots of websites about that.

[Lay-Lay]

Everyone out there stuggling with diabetes I wish you success in whatever chooses you make in the path to health. I believe Randy. I have met him and his story was true and that is good enough for me. I don't need his lab work, although I know him he would be happy to provide it because he has done so. My neice has/had diabetes, changed her diet and now has no trouble out of it. My grandmother had it, same thing.

Much Raw Love On Your Path,

[romanticsnet]

Juliebove, the same can be said that you cannot prove there is NOT a cure for diabetes. I am sure we can agree to disagree. Enough said.

[juliebove]

Juliebove, the same can be said that you cannot prove there is NOT a cure for diabetes. I am sure we can agree to disagree. Enough said.

Actually I can prove it. I have the most recent book from Joslin. They are the experts on diabetes. The book is so large and thick that it could be used like a weapon. I have read it from cover to cover. There is no cure, unless perhaps you consider islet cell transplants to be a cure and this is available only for a select few.

To tell a person with a life threatening disease that there is a cure when there is not is particularly cruel, I think.

[juliebove]

Everyone out there stuggling with diabetes I wish you success in whatever chooses you make in the path to health. I believe Randy. I have met him and his story was true and that is good enough for me. I don't need his lab work, although I know him he would be happy to provide it because he has done so. My neice has/had diabetes, changed her diet and now has no trouble out of it. My grandmother had it, same thing.

Much Raw Love On Your Path,


As I said, most people who have it "have no trouble out of it", and this is why they do nothing. That doesn't mean there's a cure.

[romanticsnet]

Having a huge thick book does not make one an expert on diabetes. Doctors think they are experts on health, but are they? You have two sides to every argument. The one that is right depends upon the individual's experience. What you say... is like saying there is no cure for cancer, no cure for high blood pressure, etc... that it is merely controlled. This is what I do not agree with.
By saying there is no cure for Diabetes, to me that is Cruel. When in fact there are people who have been cured. I don't need a big book to tell me that. After all, it was by not listening to what everyone else said, and read...that I came across cures for my own problems. Even non-diabetics people have blood sugar spikes at certain times. Your long posts do not prove you are an expert, nor do mine... but you discount people's experiences with your posts.

[luckitri]

For years my husband had diabetes but he was in denial. I would tell the primary care physician -"Please make a notation on his file that when he comes in he needs to be tested for diabetes." They always told me that they could not do this because of some stupid law - even though I am the wife and there is no family close to us. None of the doctors would routinely test him despite his age and race being prime indicators that he would have it. My husband does not go to the doctor unless he is close to death. Finally one year he went to see the doctor on file and despite the emergency of the situation he did bother to cover his bases and test my husband. Yes now he is being treated but did he have a triple bypass after heart attack because of the long untreated situation? Is his neuropathy because of the long untreated? If my husband saw any positive result for the short time he was on raw he would still be on it. He saw absolutely no result. Even after a few day to 2 weeks one should have some feeling better on raw? Lower sugar? Or even a feeling that something was changing? He got skinnier but no lower sugar and no feeling better. Well I am not feeling so well myself but I know that I feel less poorly raw and am hoping that I will not get the diabetes that is hereditary in my family and of which I appear to have Syndrome X if I stay on raw.....but then if I don't get it there will once again be no proof.

[luckitri]

You know what? I have seen alot of claims made but I have not seen facts.....no they want big bucks first. Well I have been very greatful for julieboves' posts and she has helped to educate me as my hubby does not like to share about his illness or have me involved with the care of it until he is no longer able - its a macho thing. So if you know of proof why don't you share it here free of charge instead of belittling someone that is a voice of reason and has had the time and resource to try alot on her own body in her attempts to be well. If you know proof just prove it instead of being a spokesperson for something that you will not even benefit from financially, healthwise or any other way - just because you want to believe it. As juliebove said in another post there is way more than just 2 kinds of diabetes and even if someONE got relief it does not mean that anyONE else will get relief from the same regime - give me some numbers of people that got healed - a scientific study please! Yes I have read the news reports - they put alot of junk in the news. Lets get back to Just the Facts ma'am!

[romanticsnet]

Why not search for posts about diabetes, and start really reading some of the information and resources found by people. Do you remember the Boutenkos? What about the Duke University program of rice and fruit that has been going on since the 1930's. On Dr. McDougall's site there are several cases. Read up on Gabriel Cousens. Raw food is only a piece of the cure. There are several other factors involved, mind and spirit as well.

I can also go by several of my family members experiences, as well as my own. Facts do not mean a thing ...You know... the AMA, AHA, ADA and the rest spout off facts all of the time, and they claim to be the "experts." If we had listened to them, I don't think we would be on this board. Here are a couple of quotes:

A quote from "Raw Priestess"

"it is scientific fact that heating food causes carcinogens in the food, which in turn causes cancer in humans, and animals, it is also scientific fact that heating foods above certain temperatures cause the body to have immune issues once the food is eaten It is also scientific fact that eating a raw food diet cures diabetes, and many other diseases.

however, I firmly believe:

"If a person believes -- you can NOT make them disbelieve,
if a person does not believe -- you can NOT convince them"

Another quote from "Rawkinlocs"
" it just appears that you have had some challenges with this raw lifestyle for a while now and your post does, indeed, feel like an attack on the intelligence of those who have lived this lifestyle and reaped many rewards of it. If people here say their tooth decay healed, then it did...if people say they lost weight (which many actually SHOW through pictures) then they did...if people here say they used to suffer diabetes or high blood pressure, etc and since being raw they are healed of it, they are!"

I don't think I could have said it better than these two.

[dreamrawalwz]

Do the Dr.'s and those that write books know of raw? Many would say it's "unhelathy" and would never "cure" it... cures = no more need for medications and treatments to manage the disease = no more money coming in to them!

[Sharon in Colorado]

I think "healed" is a better term than "cured"....when you are cured of something it sounds like you'll never get it back. However people who have healed their diseases on raw, went off raw and their symptoms and diseases return.

Or maybe "controlled" is a better way to put it.

I would be interested in an explanation of Sergei Boutenko's case. Apparantly he was diagnosed with Type I Juvenille Diabetes and had to monitor his blood and take insulin until he went raw. He said the only way he could "control" it, and be off insulin was to stay raw and engage in a lot of physical activity.

[luckitri]

Well 50 people on here can write that they believe that eating raw turned their eyes purple but if I don't see photos of before and after I have no proof. Furthermore, if I want to turn my eyes purple I need to know what those 50 people have in common in themselves and in their raw diet so that I can try it and know that the commonalities give me a reasonable chance of attaining my goal. Gabriel Cousens is not telling what those people ingested. I believe that it is possible that they are cured of their diabetes but since I don't know what he did and I don't have the price of admission it is not going to happen for my husband. Most of us don't have time for this amount of research and trial and error which is why I appreciate people like juliebove who has had the time and resource to go more in depth than I am able to and then she doesn't hog the information for herself - she shares it. What she writes dovetails well with my other sources of information. Where is the proof!?!

[dreamrawalwz]

Well 50 people on here can write that they believe that eating raw turned their eyes purple but if I don't see photos of before and after I have no proof. Furthermore, if I want to turn my eyes purple I need to know what those 50 people have in common in themselves and in their raw diet so that I can try it and know that the commonalities give me a reasonable chance of attaining my goal. Gabriel Cousens is not telling what those people ingested. I believe that it is possible that they are cured of their diabetes but since I don't know what he did and I don't have the price of admission it is not going to happen for my husband. Most of us don't have time for this amount of research and trial and error which is why I appreciate people like juliebove who has had the time and resource to go more in depth than I am able to and then she doesn't hog the information for herself - she shares it. What she writes dovetails well with my other sources of information. Where is the proof!?!

Why would so many lie about their benefits on raw?? :confused:

[juliebove]

Do the Dr.'s and those that write books know of raw? Many would say it's "unhelathy" and would never "cure" it... cures = no more need for medications and treatments to manage the disease = no more money coming in to them!

My Drs. know of my diet. They have no problems with it. But is sure as heck isn't curing my diabetes! I keep seeing over and over again on this board how some people get nothing but grief from others about their diet. But that's not happening to me! Everyone thinks I'm doing a good thing. And if you think you only need medication to "manage" diabetes, you're wrong. Without a modification to diet, all the pills in the world aren't going to do you much good.

[juliebove]

Ever heard of milk causing diabetes? There are lots of websites about that.

Milk, soy, beta blockers, psyche meds, lack of sleep, the list goes on and on. Truth is nobody knows for sure. In some cases, we do. But for the most part we can only surmise.

[juliebove]

Having a huge thick book does not make one an expert on diabetes. Doctors think they are experts on health, but are they? You have two sides to every argument. The one that is right depends upon the individual's experience. What you say... is like saying there is no cure for cancer, no cure for high blood pressure, etc... that it is merely controlled. This is what I do not agree with.
By saying there is no cure for Diabetes, to me that is Cruel. When in fact there are people who have been cured. I don't need a big book to tell me that. After all, it was by not listening to what everyone else said, and read...that I came across cures for my own problems. Even non-diabetics people have blood sugar spikes at certain times. Your long posts do not prove you are an expert, nor do mine... but you discount people's experiences with your posts.

I don't claim to be an expert on diabetes or anything else. Just a diabetic who tries to learn as much as she can about this disease.

You don't have to agree with me.

As for cruel? Do you think it is better to lie to someone? And by telling them there is a cure, that's a lie! I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes in 1998. Type 2 a year later. In that time I've been promised cures by all sorts of people. I've been told we'll have meters that are not invasive. Still no cures and still no non-invasive meters that are accurate, although strides are being made.

A person who does not have diabetes or pre-diabetes and is not taking steriods will have a blood sugar range of about 80-110. Now granted there are a few exceptions such as pancreatitis, occasionally an infection or illness, but on an every day basis, their blood sugar does not spike. They can eat all the candy or fruit in the world and their blood sugar isn't going to leave normal range. That's *why* they don't have diabetes. If they go between 110-126, they have pre-diabetes. Over 126, it's full blown. As you can see, the diagnostic criteria is very clear cut. Some might even argue with the term pre-diabetes. It used to be called impaired glucose intolerance. Whatever. It's still not normal and has to be monitored. Another thing that can cause a problem is a thyroid problem. It's rare, but an out of whack thyroid can mess with blood sugar just like it does with cholesterol. It generally is not called diabetes when this happens because it's of a transient nature and once the thyroid is in balance it goes away. But it still is a problem that needs to be monitored.

Now I developed a thyroid problem while pregnant. No surprise to me since thyroid problems run on both sides of the family. I was told that I'd be on thyroid meds for life. I didn't believe this because both my mom and a friend of mine have thyroids that fluctuate and they've been on and off meds. I am currently off the meds. I do believe that total elimination of soy and watching the amount of goitrogenic foods I'm eating has brought my thryoid to normal levels. Does that mean I'm cured? Nope. In fact they never determined the cause to begin with. My Dr. called it a roller coaster thyroid because it would go hypo or hyper seemingly at will. My thyroid is still being monitored and will be for life.

[juliebove]

Well 50 people on here can write that they believe that eating raw turned their eyes purple but if I don't see photos of before and after I have no proof. Furthermore, if I want to turn my eyes purple I need to know what those 50 people have in common in themselves and in their raw diet so that I can try it and know that the commonalities give me a reasonable chance of attaining my goal. Gabriel Cousens is not telling what those people ingested. I believe that it is possible that they are cured of their diabetes but since I don't know what he did and I don't have the price of admission it is not going to happen for my husband. Most of us don't have time for this amount of research and trial and error which is why I appreciate people like juliebove who has had the time and resource to go more in depth than I am able to and then she doesn't hog the information for herself - she shares it. What she writes dovetails well with my other sources of information. Where is the proof!?!

Exactly. And a story of a "cured" man in a car accident has been ciruculating on the diabetes newsgroups for years. Can't say if it is the same story as this or not. But the man claimed to have gotten diabetes following a car accident and needing insulin. But then he "cured" himself with the right diet. Trouble with this story is there is too much missing information. Could be his pancreas was damaged in the car accident and when it healed the "diabetes" went away.

I do not lie to people and I will not say with certainty something I do not know. I always try to back up my sources when I can. I do have a website (need to get a more recent pic on there) and it has links about diabetes. I only put links to reliable sources. I've been to Joslin. They are the experts when it comes to diabetes. I will believe anything they say. They are the first to discover the link between beta blockers and diabetes.

http://mysite.verizon.net/reso2nqv/index.htm

[luckitri]

dreamrawalwz, I am not accusing anyone of lying but there are too many variables and not enough standards or measurements. Again - where is the proof? Show me how - that can be proof. All talk - show me - teach me. Subtantiate your claim.

[romanticsnet]

I've been to Joslin. They are the experts when it comes to diabetes. I will believe anything they say. They are the first to discover the link between beta blockers and diabetes.

http://mysite.verizon.net/reso2nqv/index.htm

Well... Joslin also recommends that 20-35% of your diet should come from protein in the form of Examples of protein include fish, skinless chicken or turkey, nonfat or lowfat dairy products. I don't even want to go down that road.

Luckitri, I do not need so called scientific proof to know what I feel.

How about this:
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12474&highlight=diabetes+cured

Or maybe if you need to talk about proof, you should visit this thread.
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12875&highlight=diabetes+cure

[mongomango]

Hiya!

I'm new here and have just been reading this thread.

Two years ago I put my mother who lives in another state on a raw food diet. She is diabetic, suffers from hashimotos diseases and a few other things...and has had these problems for well over 20 years. Within a couple months she was just about off her medicine. ALL her medicine, for ALL her conditions. At that time she was eating as much fruit as she wanted, but it was a 100% raw diet that I helped her with right from the inception...no percentages raw...we dove right in. We didn't worry about sugar spikes in the beginning and her sugar normalized very quickly. As summer ended I went back home and she was left on her own to carry on the food changes. She decided that she couldn't do without "warm" food on cold days and so went back initially to eating some cooked food. With the addition of the cooked food to her diet, her sugar went nuts again. She did not stop but continued eating cooked food and has to this day and is now on all her medications again.

Additonally, I have a friend at www.notdoctors.com who is a sort of counsellor for various illness ...naturopathic healer or whatever...don't know what his title really is...but he has taken a type 1 diabetic child off insulin completely. Now..is she healed? Dunno. But she no longer is dependent on insulin provided her diet remains in his guidelines.

[exurb]

Uh... He does not say that he has type 1.

ch-yeah, it definitely sounds like type II. IMO there's no way he's describing type I. LayLay you can choose to believe Randy, but that sure ain't Type I.

I have a very close friend who stopped using insulin for type II after massive weight loss (not raw at all).

[romanticsnet]

Another guy...

http://www.ecopolitan.com/eco-life/...ls/james-martin

[juliebove]

Hiya!

I'm new here and have just been reading this thread.

Two years ago I put my mother who lives in another state on a raw food diet. She is diabetic, suffers from hashimotos diseases and a few other things...and has had these problems for well over 20 years. Within a couple months she was just about off her medicine. ALL her medicine, for ALL her conditions. At that time she was eating as much fruit as she wanted, but it was a 100% raw diet that I helped her with right from the inception...no percentages raw...we dove right in. We didn't worry about sugar spikes in the beginning and her sugar normalized very quickly. As summer ended I went back home and she was left on her own to carry on the food changes. She decided that she couldn't do without "warm" food on cold days and so went back initially to eating some cooked food. With the addition of the cooked food to her diet, her sugar went nuts again. She did not stop but continued eating cooked food and has to this day and is now on all her medications again.

Additonally, I have a friend at www.notdoctors.com who is a sort of counsellor for various illness ...naturopathic healer or whatever...don't know what his title really is...but he has taken a type 1 diabetic child off insulin completely. Now..is she healed? Dunno. But she no longer is dependent on insulin provided her diet remains in his guidelines.

Sorry, but you can not take a type 1 off of insulin unless perhaps they are still in their honeymoon period. It could be that the child actually had type 2. And whether a person needs medication or not for a medical condition does not mean it is cured.

[juliebove]

ch-yeah, it definitely sounds like type II. IMO there's no way he's describing type I. LayLay you can choose to believe Randy, but that sure ain't Type I.

I have a very close friend who stopped using insulin for type II after massive weight loss (not raw at all).

Yep. I have an eldery friend who thought he was type 2 because he was on insulin. He's now on pills and he wolfs down SAD pizza and cinnamon rolls like crazy. And his A1c is in normal range. Also seems to me that diabetic men can often eat more carbs than we women can. I shudder at all the food my dad and brother can eat and yet their numbers are lower thna mine. Weight loss can indeed lessen insulin resistance, but it doesn't always.

[juliebove]

Here's a link about type 1 diabetes:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/type-1-diabetes/DS00329/DSECTION=8

Read specifically this portion:

"Medications
All people with type 1 diabetes must take insulin to survive. Unfortunately, insulin can't be taken by mouth because enzymes in your stomach make it ineffective. Instead, you inject your insulin under your skin using a very fine needle and syringe or an insulin pen injector — a device that looks like an ink pen, except the cartridge is filled with insulin."

Now as the one poster stated, her husband is a guinea pig for inhaled insulin. It is not commonly used as yet.

If you choose to believe that a type 1 can be off insulin and live, I have a bridge to sell you! :D

[juliebove]

Well... Joslin also recommends that 20-35% of your diet should come from protein in the form of Examples of protein include fish, skinless chicken or turkey, nonfat or lowfat dairy products. I don't even want to go down that road.

Luckitri, I do not need so called scientific proof to know what I feel.

How about this:
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12474&highlight=diabetes+cured

Or maybe if you need to talk about proof, you should visit this thread.
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12875&highlight=diabetes+cure

It is not true that one must eat meat, fish, eggs or dairy products and go to Joslin. I was a vegetarian when I went there. They do have dieticians and they will tailor a diet to what you need. In the case of a diabetic with kidney problems, the amount of protein eaten would be less.

Here's a quote directly from their site:"Protein: 20-30 percent from protein (unless you have kidney disease). Best protein sources: fish, skinless chicken or turkey, nonfat or low-fat dairy products, tofu and legumes (beans and peas)."

I see you failed to mention the kidney disease and you also failed to mention the tofu and legumes. It also says these are the "best" sources. Not the "only" sources.

You also left out this part on the same page:

"Personalized Approach
By James Rosenzweig, M.D., Director, Joslin Disease Management;
Osama Hamdy, M.D., Ph.D., Director, Joslin Obesity Clinical Program;
Amy Campbell, M.S., R.D., C.D.E., Joslin Education Program Manager

Despite the new fad diets published and diet aids marketed each year, Americans’ waistlines and the epidemic of obesity and diabetes continue to expand. With current scientific knowledge and clinical experience, however, health care providers and industry influencers can make a difference.

In 2005 for the first time in 13 years, the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) updated the Food Guide Pyramid. The USDA touts the latest version as no longer a “one size fits all” approach, but rather an “individualized approach to improving diet and lifestyle.” Though this long-awaited update to the nation’s only federal nutrition guidelines offers healthier food choices for healthy Americans, for the 17 million Americans with type 2 diabetes and the 41 million more who are at high risk for developing the disease, these guidelines are not enough.


One Size Fits Some
Joslin’s approach to diabetes management has always been to focus on the individual, and not dictate a “one size fits all” strategy. At a time when the diet advice waters are muddied with thousands claiming the answer to the battle of the bulge, Joslin offers evidence-based clinical nutrition guidelines for overweight and obese people with type 2 diabetes, prediabetes or at high risk for developing type 2 diabetes. The ultimate goal is to help these populations improve cardiovascular health, reduce body fat and increase sensitivity to insulin. This decreases their risk for devastating diabetes complications, including kidney disease, heart disease and amputations."

For those who care to read the entire page:

http://www.joslin.org/managing_your_diabetes_3231.asp

I can assure you, if you were to go to Joslin, you would be assigned a diabetes management team, including a dietician. You would then fill out a sample sheet for about 5 days worth of meals and snacks. That is how you typically eat and not just how you think the ideal way to eat is. This gives the dietician an idea of what types of foods you prefer and he or she will tailor a sample diet around that. For the diabetic, this is merely a starting point. Many things look good on paper, but don't always work in reality.

[dreamrawalwz]

I havn't read all the latests posts, but I slept on it last night.

Why be so pessimistic about it and not optimistic that there actually may be a cure or "management" if you prefer that term?

If I had a serious disease like cancer or diabetes and thought "there will never be a cure, what's the point anymore? I hate this, this sucks, ect." I know I'd give up on trying raw and basically life. Having a positive outlook and hope can help your body physically as well. There's a huge connection between mental and physical.

And to who had the husband that did raw for 3 weeks and didn't see any resutls...you have to do it longer than 3 weeks, especially for a serious health issue.

[mongomango]

Sorry, but you can not take a type 1 off of insulin unless perhaps they are still in their honeymoon period. It could be that the child actually had type 2. And whether a person needs medication or not for a medical condition does not mean it is cured.

Sorry...I am not meaning to give offense here, but have you ever considered the possibility that YOU may be wrong, and that YOU don't know everything there is to know? The child is type 1, she has been type one for a long time, and she is now off insulin. Your mindset is simply a reverse panacea. It cannot be done so it will not be done..and it is not. Belief can override many things in the physical and if you continue in your mindset that it cannot be cured, you yourself may very well suffer for it. People have grown back limbs, cancer has disappeared from people's bodies, and type 1 diabetics can and have been taken off insulin.

[juliebove]

I havn't read all the latests posts, but I slept on it last night.

Why be so pessimistic about it and not optimistic that there actually may be a cure or "management" if you prefer that term?

If I had a serious disease like cancer or diabetes and thought "there will never be a cure, what's the point anymore? I hate this, this sucks, ect." I know I'd give up on trying raw and basically life. Having a positive outlook and hope can help your body physically as well. There's a huge connection between mental and physical.

And to who had the husband that did raw for 3 weeks and didn't see any resutls...you have to do it longer than 3 weeks, especially for a serious health issue.

There IS "management" for it. That's what some diabetics choose to do. Others choose to go into denial and simply ignore it. I do not believe for an instant that there will be a cure for it in my lifetime. I have no reason to believe so. They can do a pancreas transplant and that might help a person with type 1. But for us type 2's, there is more to it than just the pancreas. They could give me a new pancreas, but that isn't going to address the insulin resistance.

There are a lot of diseases for which there is no cure. In all cases, the person can either choose to be down in the dumps about it and give up, or do what they can to make the best of the rest of their life.

[juliebove]

Sorry...I am not meaning to give offense here, but have you ever considered the possibility that YOU may be wrong, and that YOU don't know everything there is to know? The child is type 1, she has been type one for a long time, and she is now off insulin. Your mindset is simply a reverse panacea. It cannot be done so it will not be done..and it is not. Belief can override many things in the physical and if you continue in your mindset that it cannot be cured, you yourself may very well suffer for it. People have grown back limbs, cancer has disappeared from people's bodies, and type 1 diabetics can and have been taken off insulin.

Well, then I presume that child is either in the honeymoon stage or they will be having her funeral soon, if what you say is true. I am not wrong on this. Are you trying to tell me that the entire medical community is wrong? There is not one Dr. on the face of this planet who will say that a person with type 1 can stop their insulin for good and not die. There is no way eating raw food will make the body start producing insulin.

I also do not believe that people have grown back limbs. Now that is pretty far fetched.

[Bingka]

I agree with MongoMango....

If you don't have faith and belief you will be stiffled in life. Being negative and harsh will only bring about your unhappiness. Look at all the things in life that where believed to be impossible. Man on the moon, the earth is round, etc.etc.etc. With out faith and belief these things could have stayed unknown and untried. Same with disease.

I have tested my blood glucose occassionally and it does go to 119-125 sometimes. I Believe it will go away with diet and positive thoughts. You're right, it's not type 1 or type 2, but I caused it non the less. I ate the foods to do that. You did it to yourself so you have to fix it. Will it be perfect, who knows. I will keep believing anything is possible to the day I die. Or I can go thru life with the poor me attitude and get nowhere....I refuse!

At least people on this forum have a belief in the way they eat and do it. They are doing something about there situations. They made the effort to try it for themselves. Not just rely on someone elses study, belief, etc.

We are all experiencing amazing results with our unhealthy bodies. We as a whole are positive about the results WE ARE GETTING. Not what someone else is getting.

Ken

[juliebove]

I agree with MongoMango....

If you don't have faith and belief you will be stiffled in life. Being negative and harsh will only bring about your unhappiness. Look at all the things in life that where believed to be impossible. Man on the moon, the earth is round, etc.etc.etc. With out faith and belief these things could have stayed unknown and untried. Same with disease.

I have tested my blood glucose occassionally and it does go to 119-125 sometimes. I Believe it will go away with diet and positive thoughts. You're right, it's not type 1 or type 2, but I caused it non the less. I ate the foods to do that. You did it to yourself so you have to fix it. Will it be perfect, who knows. I will keep believing anything is possible to the day I die. Or I can go thru life with the poor me attitude and get nowhere....I refuse!

At least people on this forum have a belief in the way they eat and do it. They are doing something about there situations. They made the effort to try it for themselves. Not just rely on someone elses study, belief, etc.

We are all experiencing amazing results with our unhealthy bodies. We as a whole are positive about the results WE ARE GETTING. Not what someone else is getting.

Ken

You can choose to believe what you want. I don't care. I don't believe there were men on the moon either! I've seen those "moon" rocks. They looked like granite to me!

But I do get upset when I see people posting things that could potentially kill someone, like taking a type 1 kid off of their insulin. It has happened and kids have died from it.

As for your saying that *I* caused my diabetes, I fail to see how. Now that to me is a negative statement. I see this stuff all the time on the various diabetic groups. People being sad and upset because they think somehow they brought this disease on themselves. That is just pathetic thinking! We still don't know *what* causes diabetes. Yes, we are learning more but it's a very complex thing. And as I said before, there are over 300 types/variations of diabetes. It's a metabolic disorder.

[Lay-Lay]

exurb -it is possible that I misunderstood him.

Juliebove - has your thyroid improved. Mine didn't until I went 100% raw, now I have been within the normal ranges the last 2 times I was tested. I have hyper/hypo waves too, but usually I have more trouble with the hypo. I am now 100% medicine free for my thyroid disease and last time I tested I was under no medication. I am just completely amazed by this myself. I was told that I would have to be on medication for this for life. I hope you find success to manage your diabetes and thyroid.

[juliebove]

No thyroid problems that I know of at the moment, and I'm not on meds. It wasn't raw that did it for me though. It was the total elimination of soy from my diet and cutting back on the goitrogenic foods to near nothing. If I dine out and they put a few shreds of cabbage on my salad, I will eat it. But that's about the extent of the goitrogenic foods.

I don't think I ate a lot of soy before. I did have the occasional Bocca burger or some edame. But when I stopped eating those, my dose of thyroid meds needed to be decreased. I then went further to check every form of processed food (not that there were a lot of them) and not to buy it if it had any soy in it whatever. At that point the thyroid problems stopped. Now prior to getting pregnant (when the thyroid problems began), I was eating Tiger's milk bars as snacks and also roasted soy nuts. I don't believe they caused the problem. I believe pregnancy caused that, and the diabetes. However I'm sure eating the soy didn't help. At the time I thought I was doing a good thing.

[mongomango]

julieabove...

Way back in the early 1900's diabetes was so rare as to be thought of as an extreme novelty. It started becoming more prevalent as processed foods came on the market. The more people partook of processed foods, the more diabetics there were...as well as cancer and other This is fact, verifiable and checkable. Along with diabetes came allergies and a whole host of other chronic, debilitating diseases. Our dogs and cats were similiar to wild animals back in the day as well and did not get the chronic illnesses that they do now. Their diseases began when commercial pet food came on the market. Again, this is fact, verifiable and checkable.

Your body is designed to heal itself. If you get a cut, it heals unless you are a hemopheliac or have a similiar condition. I am of the opinion that even that could be managed and reversed if we knew how. However, for most of us, our bodies work just fine until we overload them with toxins to the point that they can no longer maintain optimal health and something gives. Remove the toxins and your body begins to recover. It is an amazing, astounding machine, our bodies...and it is designed to self repair.

I humbly suggest that you take a look at www.drday.com

This woman is a surgeon and was renowned and highly respected until she developed cancer and sought alternative routes to healing...since doctors by and large refuse chemotherapy while advocating it for their patients. She did heal herself of cancer and did so through nutrition and strengthening the body. She is highly against regular medicine today except for trauma cases. You might also want to check out Ann Wigmore and those that followed after her and the Hippocrates Health Center....people are being healed of many, many things through diet that are considered incurable.

Your doctor got about 5 hours of nutrition classes in med school. That's it. They are taught the party line of the ama and the big pharmaceuticals, and I for one don't give much credence to what they have to say anymore as they do not cure anyone and they give them poisons to keep them at a maintainable level of living. You may put all the faith you like in what your doctors and established medicine has to say, but they (as an industry and not talking individuals here) are no longer in business to heal anyone, only to make a profit and keep you alive long enough to extract as much money as possible from you with procedures and medications. Just look what poisons they are prescribing for young people these days under the diagnosis of ADD, look at the side effects of the medicines they dispense, look at the long term damage done...and their willingness to stick someone on pills for the rest of their lives. It is a dirty business and a rotten shame that most people put their faith in it.

[Lay-Lay]

No thyroid problems that I know of at the moment, and I'm not on meds. It wasn't raw that did it for me though. It was the total elimination of soy from my diet and cutting back on the goitrogenic foods to near nothing. If I dine out and they put a few shreds of cabbage on my salad, I will eat it. But that's about the extent of the goitrogenic foods.

I don't think I ate a lot of soy before. I did have the occasional Bocca burger or some edame. But when I stopped eating those, my dose of thyroid meds needed to be decreased. I then went further to check every form of processed food (not that there were a lot of them) and not to buy it if it had any soy in it whatever. At that point the thyroid problems stopped. Now prior to getting pregnant (when the thyroid problems began), I was eating Tiger's milk bars as snacks and also roasted soy nuts. I don't believe they caused the problem. I believe pregnancy caused that, and the diabetes. However I'm sure eating the soy didn't help. At the time I thought I was doing a good thing.

I hear ya! I have only elimanated soy since going 100% raw. I didn't realize the bad effects of soy. I can see now how bad it was for us. At the time I thought it was a wonderful healthy choice over animal products. So glad you overcame the effects of the thyroid conditon.

[dreamrawalwz]

julieabove...

Way back in the early 1900's diabetes was so rare as to be thought of as an extreme novelty. It started becoming more prevalent as processed foods came on the market. The more people partook of processed foods, the more diabetics there were...as well as cancer and other This is fact, verifiable and checkable. Along with diabetes came allergies and a whole host of other chronic, debilitating diseases. Our dogs and cats were similiar to wild animals back in the day as well and did not get the chronic illnesses that they do now. Their diseases began when commercial pet food came on the market. Again, this is fact, verifiable and checkable.

Your body is designed to heal itself. If you get a cut, it heals unless you are a hemopheliac or have a similiar condition. I am of the opinion that even that could be managed and reversed if we knew how. However, for most of us, our bodies work just fine until we overload them with toxins to the point that they can no longer maintain optimal health and something gives. Remove the toxins and your body begins to recover. It is an amazing, astounding machine, our bodies...and it is designed to self repair.

I humbly suggest that you take a look at www.drday.com

This woman is a surgeon and was renowned and highly respected until she developed cancer and sought alternative routes to healing...since doctors by and large refuse chemotherapy while advocating it for their patients. She did heal herself of cancer and did so through nutrition and strengthening the body. She is highly against regular medicine today except for trauma cases. You might also want to check out Ann Wigmore and those that followed after her and the Hippocrates Health Center....people are being healed of many, many things through diet that are considered incurable.

Your doctor got about 5 hours of nutrition classes in med school. That's it. They are taught the party line of the ama and the big pharmaceuticals, and I for one don't give much credence to what they have to say anymore as they do not cure anyone and they give them poisons to keep them at a maintainable level of living. You may put all the faith you like in what your doctors and established medicine has to say, but they (as an industry and not talking individuals here) are no longer in business to heal anyone, only to make a profit and keep you alive long enough to extract as much money as possible from you with procedures and medications. Just look what poisons they are prescribing for young people these days under the diagnosis of ADD, look at the side effects of the medicines they dispense, look at the long term damage done...and their willingness to stick someone on pills for the rest of their lives. It is a dirty business and a rotten shame that most people put their faith in it.

I couldn't have said it better myself! The industry is for money and they don't know a thing about nutrition, not even nutritionists b/c their education is based on the food pyramid. Just like cancer organizations they know there is a cure and what it is, it's just not filled with chemicals so they won't tell people to change their diet.

You also have to look at those that have gone off insulin and died...they were most likely NOT eating raw, correct? I dunno, I just don't think your negative attitude and not being open minded isn't helping the situation. Some diabetics DO cause it themselves with their diet. Yes, they may have a predisposition and the diet trigger it, but still...it's a factor and changing their diet WILL alter the diabetes. From what I undersatnd even those born with diabetes that it's a metabolic disorder...there are many other metabolic disorders that can be healed with raw, so why not diabetes? I'm not sure how to explain what I'm trying to express.

Just because it's not shown to the public does NOT mean there is no cure. Dairy industry isn't showing how bad their products are to the public, why would they? They wouldn't get any money coming in if the did that!

I too have lost my faith in doctors. All they do is hand out prescriptions and other chemicals that cause you more harm, which may cause you to get MORE medications to cover up those symptoms. It's a cycle. That doesn't mean that if I had a life or death situation that I wouldn't get help, I would, but I would stay there the minimal amount of times and refuse certain drugs and solutions if they're not needed (many aren't, especially for routine things).

[Juicyfruit]

I'm sorry, but people cannot say that they did not cause their diabetes. They may have not knowingly caused their diabetes, but it is a disease/condition, not something we are born with and it is caused by eating the WRONG FOODS. Any condition that we are not born with is caused by what ever we put in our bodies and that includes what ever we expose our skin and lungs to as well. Even conditions we are born with were caused by our ancestors weaknesses caused by thier lifestyle. We are the only speices on this earth that uses heat to prepare our food. Make chemical changes to what nature orginally gave us and you are asking for disease. People can't expect to recover quickly from something they have been doing a life time incorrectly, having a incorrect diet, which most of the population has. It's just a matter of time until each persons diet catches up with them. There is no such thing as a "normal" disease. We may not all get the same disease, but ALL disease is caused by the same thing. Toxins that build up in the body, from our diets and environment. Do we think because we are the most intelligent speices on earth that we can somehow cheat nature by not following nature? Sometimes it makes me wonder how intelligent we people are! When I read about people "adding" things to thier diet to "correct" thier problems, don't they ever think it could be as easy as taking some things "away"? It's like someone coming down with heart disease and they wonder why, go see a doctor and the only option is to do surgery. They never consider changing thier lifestyle and that would be the first thing I would think of. There is ALWAYS another option. Don't take anything I am saying personal, I am just stating some facts that I feel are obvious.

Here is a good scientific article on diabetes which also supports the raw food life style:

http://www.youngerthanyourage.com/13/diabetes.htm

Good day! :)

[juliebove]

I couldn't have said it better myself! The industry is for money and they don't know a thing about nutrition, not even nutritionists b/c their education is based on the food pyramid. Just like cancer organizations they know there is a cure and what it is, it's just not filled with chemicals so they won't tell people to change their diet.

You also have to look at those that have gone off insulin and died...they were most likely NOT eating raw, correct? I dunno, I just don't think your negative attitude and not being open minded isn't helping the situation. Some diabetics DO cause it themselves with their diet. Yes, they may have a predisposition and the diet trigger it, but still...it's a factor and changing their diet WILL alter the diabetes. From what I undersatnd even those born with diabetes that it's a metabolic disorder...there are many other metabolic disorders that can be healed with raw, so why not diabetes? I'm not sure how to explain what I'm trying to express.

Just because it's not shown to the public does NOT mean there is no cure. Dairy industry isn't showing how bad their products are to the public, why would they? They wouldn't get any money coming in if the did that!

I too have lost my faith in doctors. All they do is hand out prescriptions and other chemicals that cause you more harm, which may cause you to get MORE medications to cover up those symptoms. It's a cycle. That doesn't mean that if I had a life or death situation that I wouldn't get help, I would, but I would stay there the minimal amount of times and refuse certain drugs and solutions if they're not needed (many aren't, especially for routine things).

I am getting tired of people saying I am negative! If I were negative I wouldn't be on a raw food diet, would I? No. I'd just be off eating all the yummy bean burritoes I wanted and then whining about the pain in my legs from neuropathy.

I don't have a lot of faith in most Drs. Why? My diabetes kept going undiagnosed because I was unwittingly controling it with diet and exercise. Meanwhile, complications set in. Meaning neuropathy (nerve damage) caused by uncontrolled blood sugar. I know of other diabetics with similar stories who did not have wildly high numbers. No, often their numbers after eating were around 130 to 140 and they still got neuropathy.

On top of this I developed fibromyalgia, I think because the Endo. I was seeing at the time was not a good one and kept overdosing me on my thyroid meds causing me to be hyperthyroid. I then developed as he said a "heart condition" so he gave me more meds to slow down my heart.

Now part of my problem is that my husband is in the military so we move from state to state a lot and if I do find a good Dr., I have to move and find a new one. And it's hard to find a good one!

I've told my long story here before in some other post so I won't give the long version again, but I have bad veins in my lower legs and this condition kept being undiagnosed/misdiagnosed. I was told it was psoriasis. I was told there was nothing wrong with me. Sent to a psychiatrist who also found nothing wrong with me mentally. So there I was, unable to walk and wondering why. I had tried every type of Dr. and was exasperated.

Then I moved to NYC. Every Dr. I saw there saw the rash on my legs and told me what it was. Stasis dermatitis caused by venous insufficiency. Bingo! Now that I'm on the proper treatment for that, I'm a lot better. I'm still disabled, but at least now I can walk a little bit and feel like a functioning person again. Prior to that I could mainly just crawl or scoot on the floor. Even sitting in a chair caused pain because if my legs hang down for any length of time without the medical stockings on, my legs fill with pooled blood and begin to ache and cramp very badly.

Your statement that some diabetics DO cause it by their diet just really makes me angry. And few people are actually born with it. As of today, we do not know why there are more and more people being diagnosed with diabetes. Some people blame the rampant use of high fructose corn syrup in prepared food. But I never ate that stuff. Never. I have two friends who now have diabetes and they never ate that stuff. Some people say it is the better testing methods we have today. Better technology. And also the continual lowering of the threshold at which we are diagnosed. In the 1980s, a person would have to have two readinsgs >200 to be diagnosed. That was dropped to 180 and now it's 110. I often joke that if they keep dropping the number we'll all have diabetes.

As for a nutritionist not knowing about nutrition, that's a rather specious statement because the term "nutritionist" in and of itself is rather meaningless. In this country, anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. Perhaps you mean "dietician" or better still "registered dietician". This does mean something. These people have a degree in nutrition.

Did you know they did away with the food pyramid? Yes, it is no longer. And it wasn't even around when I was a kid. Back then we had the 5 food groups. Fruit, vegetables, grains, fats and protein. As you can see, all of those things are in a raw diet. Or can be. Ditto for the old food pyramid. And for a diabetic, the diet given is not the same as that for a person without diabetes. We have to eat less carbs. Usually less fat. Sometimes less protein. And yes, the dieticians DO tell us to eat plenty of raw vegetables. Not necessarily fruit, although it too is mentioned and we should eat it raw when possible. Although as I have said before, there is no one diabetic diet, the emphasis in most cases (unless perhaps the person has gastroparesis) whole foods.

As for your saying that all Drs. do is hand out prescriptions, this is simply not true. For some, yes. I think it's a pretty well known fact that some Drs. love the perks they get for pushing certain meds. My GP has never prescribed anything for me. Never! He is amazed with my cholesterol level because most diabetics have high cholesterol. He is in favor of the raw diet. My Endo. is in favor of the raw diet. I can not lump everyone together. The world just doesn't work that way. Yes, there are bad people in any field. But also good ones.

[juliebove]

I'm sorry, but people cannot say that they did not cause their diabetes. They may have not knowingly caused their diabetes, but it is a disease/condition, not something we are born with and it is caused by eating the WRONG FOODS. Any condition that we are not born with is caused by what ever we put in our bodies and that includes what ever we expose our skin and lungs to as well. Even conditions we are born with were caused by our ancestors weaknesses caused by thier lifestyle. We are the only speices on this earth that uses heat to prepare our food. Make chemical changes to what nature orginally gave us and you are asking for disease. People can't expect to recover quickly from something they have been doing a life time incorrectly, having a incorrect diet, which most of the population has. It's just a matter of time until each persons diet catches up with them. There is no such thing as a "normal" disease. We may not all get the same disease, but ALL disease is caused by the same thing. Toxins that build up in the body, from our diets and environment. Do we think because we are the most intelligent speices on earth that we can somehow cheat nature by not following nature? Sometimes it makes me wonder how intelligent we people are! When I read about people "adding" things to thier diet to "correct" thier problems, don't they ever think it could be as easy as taking some things "away"? It's like someone coming down with heart disease and they wonder why, go see a doctor and the only option is to do surgery. They never consider changing thier lifestyle and that would be the first thing I would think of. There is ALWAYS another option. Don't take anything I am saying personal, I am just stating some facts that I feel are obvious.

Here is a good scientific article on diabetes which also supports the raw food life style:

http://www.youngerthanyourage.com/13/diabetes.htm

Good day! :)

You post that nonsense and then say "Good day!" with a simlie after it? Why not just blame every person for every bad thing that happens to them. Persecute them all. I mean... They must have brought all this bad stuff on themselves, right?

I do not understand this kind of attitude. I just do not! I know plenty of people who eat junky food all the time and they're not sick with anything! I am one who didn't eat junky food. So that wasn't the cause for me.

I also do not believe that all disease is caused by toxins that build up in the body by our diet and environment. Or that a heart patient would never consider changing their diet. You claim you are stating the obvious, but this sure as heck isn't obvious to me!

[dreamrawalwz]

I'm sorry Julie if I upset you. I'll just shut up then instead of trying to defend what I said or explain what I meant. Every time I try to say what I want it doesn't come out right or I offend someone or something so it's best if I no longer say anything. I hate trying to speak my opinion because this is always what happens when I don't intend for it to. :(

Grr (not to you, to me).

[juliebove]

julieabove...

Way back in the early 1900's diabetes was so rare as to be thought of as an extreme novelty. It started becoming more prevalent as processed foods came on the market. The more people partook of processed foods, the more diabetics there were...as well as cancer and other This is fact, verifiable and checkable. Along with diabetes came allergies and a whole host of other chronic, debilitating diseases. Our dogs and cats were similiar to wild animals back in the day as well and did not get the chronic illnesses that they do now. Their diseases began when commercial pet food came on the market. Again, this is fact, verifiable and checkable.

Your body is designed to heal itself. If you get a cut, it heals unless you are a hemopheliac or have a similiar condition. I am of the opinion that even that could be managed and reversed if we knew how. However, for most of us, our bodies work just fine until we overload them with toxins to the point that they can no longer maintain optimal health and something gives. Remove the toxins and your body begins to recover. It is an amazing, astounding machine, our bodies...and it is designed to self repair.

I humbly suggest that you take a look at www.drday.com

This woman is a surgeon and was renowned and highly respected until she developed cancer and sought alternative routes to healing...since doctors by and large refuse chemotherapy while advocating it for their patients. She did heal herself of cancer and did so through nutrition and strengthening the body. She is highly against regular medicine today except for trauma cases. You might also want to check out Ann Wigmore and those that followed after her and the Hippocrates Health Center....people are being healed of many, many things through diet that are considered incurable.

Your doctor got about 5 hours of nutrition classes in med school. That's it. They are taught the party line of the ama and the big pharmaceuticals, and I for one don't give much credence to what they have to say anymore as they do not cure anyone and they give them poisons to keep them at a maintainable level of living. You may put all the faith you like in what your doctors and established medicine has to say, but they (as an industry and not talking individuals here) are no longer in business to heal anyone, only to make a profit and keep you alive long enough to extract as much money as possible from you with procedures and medications. Just look what poisons they are prescribing for young people these days under the diagnosis of ADD, look at the side effects of the medicines they dispense, look at the long term damage done...and their willingness to stick someone on pills for the rest of their lives. It is a dirty business and a rotten shame that most people put their faith in it.

You are aware, I assume that back in the 1900's we had no way of monitoring our blood sugar. The first type of monitoring were little strips to check the sugar content of the urine. By the time sugar gets peed out of us, our blood sugar is VERY high and has been for some time. And there was little they could do about diabetes. We didn't have insulin back then. Also, people didn't live as long as they do now.

I don't buy the cats and dogs thing either. In fact, cats and dogs didn't live as long back in those days. We now know that a cat kept indoors and fed proper food can live for a very long time. My cat will soon be 13 and has never been ill. I had a dog who lived to the age of 17. I don't buy that at all. And not all people feed their pets commercial products. I've had friends who made their own food and treats for their pets and I also have books on how to prepare the food. I do usually use commercial products because they are working for my cat.

I am well aware that Drs. are not well phased in nutrition. Or most of them anyway. I do not get get my dietary advice from my Dr. That's why there are dieticians. If a person needs dietary advice, a good Dr. will give them a referral to one.

I refuse to lump all people of a certain profession together. There are good Drs. and there are bad ones. My Endo. does not push popular meds or ones he will get perks from. He is not in the business to be wealthy because if he was, he wouldn't take my crappy insurance. My ND is in the business to help people. She once charged me $10 for a consult. A measly $10! She also owns a health food store and will gladly order anything I might want or need for me. She and the people in her store have at times given me small quantities of supplements when we needed them. Without charging me a dime! They know I am helping to bring in business. And I do. They're a very good place and they are very good at helping people. That's why they're there.

I went to your Dr. Day website. She is selling stuff. Why would I place any stock in what she says? She wants us to buy her stuff. 'nuff said.

[juliebove]

I'm sorry Julie if I upset you. I'll just shut up then instead of trying to defend what I said or explain what I meant. Every time I try to say what I want it doesn't come out right or I offend someone or something so it's best if I no longer say anything. I hate trying to speak my opinion because this is always what happens when I don't intend for it to. :(

Grr (not to you, to me).

Sorry, I'm not so much offended, but annoyed. I just feel there is so much misinformation out there and at least on this board it seems to be coming from people who don't have diabetes. And that comment is not really directed just at you. I realize what you were saying was in reply to someone else.

[mongomango]

Yes, back in the 1900's we had no way of monitoring blood sugar. Yet diabetes was known, and the symptoms have not changed from that time. "People didn't live as long back then" well this is simply a statement based on a statistic. In fact, that did live as long, and LONGER, and in better health than our current life spans as a rule. The numbers are skewed because they are put into statistics. People died young due mainly due to accidents and pandemics. If they avoided those things, they lived longer than the average person does today and enjoyed a much greater level of health than the average elder does today.

As for cats and dogs, it is the same scenario. They lived a much rougher life than our pets and certainly most did not live indoors as they were not kept in the same manner as we keep them, but for most, they were working animals, also subject to accidents and attack and people who routinely butchered their own animals did not put the same premium on pets as we do today.

Medical care of any sort was difficult to come by in a timely fashion and for people..well, they did the best they could. Animals were mainly put out of their misery quickly.

I did not lump all people together. If you'll note, I did say that the issue was with the industry, not the individuals. I believe *most* medical practioners strive to help their patients as best they know how. And there's the rub. They are indoctrinated in schools that get funding by big pharma and other industries and coursework is highly slanted to what big money wants it slanted to. The medical students/nurses are indoctrinated and brainwashed by people who have no regard for our health, indeed, who want to cause health problems so that they can provide the cure.

There is much information on Dr. Day's site that is not for sale if you'll take the time to explore the site. Your doctor's also sell things yet you don't fault them for it...just walking in most doctor's doors will run you many times what she charges for her cd's. And if you truly looked into her background, saw how she was villified by the mainstream medical practioners and big hospitals...and then saw each and every one of these vaunted medical professionals who called her a scam and a con artist have to write public letters of apology and retraction...and for some had to ADMIT that they lied about her to cause her to lose credibility...you might change your mind...because what you feel is "nuff said", simply isn't.

If you could lose your bias and truly explore these things with an open mind you might be amazed at what you find out.


You are aware, I assume that back in the 1900's we had no way of monitoring our blood sugar. The first type of monitoring were little strips to check the sugar content of the urine. By the time sugar gets peed out of us, our blood sugar is VERY high and has been for some time. And there was little they could do about diabetes. We didn't have insulin back then. Also, people didn't live as long as they do now.

I don't buy the cats and dogs thing either. In fact, cats and dogs didn't live as long back in those days. We now know that a cat kept indoors and fed proper food can live for a very long time. My cat will soon be 13 and has never been ill. I had a dog who lived to the age of 17. I don't buy that at all. And not all people feed their pets commercial products. I've had friends who made their own food and treats for their pets and I also have books on how to prepare the food. I do usually use commercial products because they are working for my cat.

I am well aware that Drs. are not well phased in nutrition. Or most of them anyway. I do not get get my dietary advice from my Dr. That's why there are dieticians. If a person needs dietary advice, a good Dr. will give them a referral to one.

I refuse to lump all people of a certain profession together. There are good Drs. and there are bad ones. My Endo. does not push popular meds or ones he will get perks from. He is not in the business to be wealthy because if he was, he wouldn't take my crappy insurance. My ND is in the business to help people. She once charged me $10 for a consult. A measly $10! She also owns a health food store and will gladly order anything I might want or need for me. She and the people in her store have at times given me small quantities of supplements when we needed them. Without charging me a dime! They know I am helping to bring in business. And I do. They're a very good place and they are very good at helping people. That's why they're there.

I went to your Dr. Day website. She is selling stuff. Why would I place any stock in what she says? She wants us to buy her stuff. 'nuff said.

[juliebove]

I'm not going to quote that whole long thing. You mentioned pandemdics. And what quashed those? *Cha ching* Modern medicine! Vaccines, pills, etc.

And my Drs. do not sell things. The ND I see started as a master herbalist then bought a heath food store. Only recently did she become an ND. Yes she *does* sell things but she also gives them away! I did mention that she has given me things without charging me a dime. She also writes tons of articles and does not sell them to people. She gives them away.

I'm sorry that your Dr. Day has had problems. But really that's not a concern of mine.

[mongomango]

Modern medicine today is a far cry from what it was 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago, although it was still corrupt then, and cha ching, all our lovely antibiotics have created super bugs that will not be killed and it is getting worse. In fact, the only things that they have found to routinely kill the super bugs each and every time are natural products..things like garlic.

One thing though, that I would like to elaborate on as I found your last statement a bit diversionary to the intent of my comments regarding her, and perhaps you misunderstood what I was trying to relay. You needn't be sorry, Dr. Day has no troubles. I was attempting to illustrate to you the lengths that the medical community will go to to protect itself...and the fact that in Dr. Day they did not have an uneducated, unmoneyed target. She took them on head to head and made them all back down, aplogize, and admit that she was telling the truth.

I will give you one last name. Weston Price. He was a dentist who went all over the world surveying indigenous populations. His findings, and they were conclusive and documented, were that as soon as indigenous populations adapted a western diet, they contracted western diseases, had dental problems, and a reduced natural life span. Much of his findings were corroborated a few years ago by a study done on Indian immigrants done in England. The generation born to the immigrants had the same health problems as the English did. The parents didn't, and the Indians of the same families who did not emigrate didn't have any heart disease, diabetes, thyroid problems, clogged arteries, chronic fatigue, fibromalgya, etc., etc., etc.

The only significant change was diet. Weston Price found that even the shape of the faces changed because of the changes in the teeth of the children who were born into, and ate, a Western diet. Most won't like it here, but he also found that the healthiest people were omniverous, with primarily vegetable foods, grains and beans that *without exception regardless of the continent* were fermented before consuming, and they ate some animal products.

If you put contaminated fuel in your car, you would know that the reason your car broke down is the contaminated fuel. The same principal works with bodies...however, with bodies we have a little more leeway because we have our minds and our intents...which can change everything if we firmly believe it, as evidenced by placebos.

And this will end our discourse and we should probably just agree to disagree, but I do hope you look up some of these things.

Cheers!

[luckitri]

Well I agree that my husband did not try raw long enough. However his sugar did not go down at all! There was absolutely no relation between his sugar and eating raw until he tried to fill that new raw hunger you get with a banana - then his sugar spiked to higher than ever. Bingka, if we did not believe that we can get help for our conditions we wouldn't be here and on other sites daily - we have families to care for and I have a full-time job as well...as in if I don't work we don't eat or have a bed to sleep in. Romanticsnet: you are aptly named....."I do not need so called scientific proof to know what I feel." That is just it - what you FEEL. The video does not make proof. People posting on here does not make proof....although I am inclined to believe it from certain sources or if a large number of people concur.
OK, in all truth the doc has told me that I am a heart attack waiting to happen and I have to get my cholesterol down. So I went to the health food store and got me some red yeast rice and the CoQ10, and some Oat Bran pills and some Omega 3 gels and maybe it will get my cholesterol down. So after some length of time I may come on here or some other site and post for everyone's benefit - this stuff worked! Or conversely I may post that this stuff was a total waste of my money I need to find something else to try. So then someone may use my post to make their own decision. At least what I have done is told you what I am using to get my cholesterol down. In terms of the diabetes, Gabriel Cousens is not telling us what those people ingested to get it under control - so you can believe it if you want - but until I have the formula that he used to try on my husbands body - I don't have a prayer of knowing if it can be done - I am left to my own devices of seeking and trying. Problem is that if you use my posted information about cholesterol lowering substances from the health food store - you don't have the whole picture. I started raw about the same time. Just prior to all of this I started doing young coconuts every day. I also have other favorite foods that I can't get enough of like arugala. So you don't have the complete picture and you will not be able to duplicate what I am doing because you don't have complete information. Even if I give you all the information and you duplicate everything I am doing there are still too many variables within our own bodies - some peoples bodies just make too much cholesterol - some peoples bodies seem to hoard it more or eliminate it better. This is why when I hear that a large number of people have achieved success with something I am more likely to try it because its a better risk with what little disposable(?) income I have. I may forget the other factors involved in my experiment to lower my cholesterol and then other people may use my post as an example of what or what not to do....it is not reliable....I am not lying intentionally....I just forgot or didn't realize the significance of these other factors.

[juliebove]

Antibiotics didn't create super bugs. Misuse of them did. My grandpa died in the hospital because there were no antibiotics in those days. He died of a simple infection that today would have been knocked out by a simple antibiotic.

No time to reply to the rest of it. Gotta go take my daughter to dance class.

[Juicyfruit]

You post that nonsense and then say "Good day!" with a simlie after it? Why not just blame every person for every bad thing that happens to them. Persecute them all. I mean... They must have brought all this bad stuff on themselves, right?

I do not understand this kind of attitude. I just do not! I know plenty of people who eat junky food all the time and they're not sick with anything! I am one who didn't eat junky food. So that wasn't the cause for me.

I also do not believe that all disease is caused by toxins that build up in the body by our diet and environment. Or that a heart patient would never consider changing their diet. You claim you are stating the obvious, but this sure as heck isn't obvious to me!


What kind of attitutude? I didn't know I was having an attitude. Is diet just something that just happens and has no effect on us? Disease just happens? People may eat junky food and aren't sick, but it is coming, beleive me. What do most people die of? Does hardly any one die diease free? Every one that I know of that has died, it has been from an accident or disease. What is disease anyway?

Disease dis·ease (dĭ-zēz')n.
1. A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.
2. A condition or tendency, as of society, regarded as abnormal and harmful.
Obsolete. Lack of ease; trouble.

Courtesy of the dictionary.

Obviously the definition of disease states that fact, that it is a RESULT of something else. It is not natural.

I'm sorry that I offened you, but if you would have really read my post you would have seen that it was not directed at YOU but at how disease is caused and works. I didn't even quote you, until you directed it at me and took it personal.

[luckitri]

Well I think that we would all do fine here if we would remember the topic at hand and remember the subject we are under. We are not in the Personal Growth section. Some of the posts here are very good until the labeling of attitude as "negative" or "close-mindedness" sets in. This type of tactic disqualifies the validity of your post and it is a shame because you have some good information. Some of us have suffered horribly at the hands of doctors are lucky to be alive and know all too well about the "medical mafia" but we have to weigh the good and bad and get help where we can. I have surgery scars from a surgery that is not on my medical records but probably saved my life. Why is it not on my records? Well the doctor that did it was protecting his job by helping me and making no record of it....because with that record I could have sued the original doctor that caused the problem and even if I did not - an audit or review would have found it and possibly shut them down!

[mongomango]

Hi luckitri!

Man, sorry you went through all that! Glad you made it tho! :)

I would just like to say that I don't think the validity of anything is in question due to labeling if the labeling itself is valid. If one refuses to investigate something and only gives it the most cursory of glances because of preconceived beliefs, there is a certain lack of open mindedness in that area. It can be sugar coated as much as we like, but it is still a closed door...and I don't think of it as labeling per se, as we ALL are close minded in many different areas...hahaha, it is just sooooo much easier to see it in others than it is to see in ourselves.. ;)

[luckitri]

Thanks mongomango! Unbelievably, this is only a small fraction of the medical mispractice odyssey that has been my life! Yes I am glad that I am here and trying to be open-minded and positive......it's alot easier raw!

[juliebove]

What kind of attitutude? I didn't know I was having an attitude. Is diet just something that just happens and has no effect on us? Disease just happens? People may eat junky food and aren't sick, but it is coming, beleive me. What do most people die of? Does hardly any one die diease free? Every one that I know of that has died, it has been from an accident or disease. What is disease anyway?

Disease dis·ease (dĭ-zēz')n.
1. A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.
2. A condition or tendency, as of society, regarded as abnormal and harmful.
Obsolete. Lack of ease; trouble.

Courtesy of the dictionary.

Obviously the definition of disease states that fact, that it is a RESULT of something else. It is not natural.

I'm sorry that I offened you, but if you would have really read my post you would have seen that it was not directed at YOU but at how disease is caused and works. I didn't even quote you, until you directed it at me and took it personal.


But this whole thing started about diabetes and although this may be picayune is is not called a disease but a metabolic disorder. And I still do not believe in any way that any person with diabetes caused themselves to get it. Now granted there is a link to beta blockers and some psyche meds that we know now. Had we known about it when we took them (those of us who did) we might not have taken them. But in the case of beta blockers they are often given for high BP treatment. We now know that high BP is one of the first symptoms of Syndrome X, a precursor to type 2 diabetes. When I developed high BP my Dr. was totally stumped. I was in perfect health otherwise. So he put me on beta blockers to lower my BP. Now we know that anyone with a family history of diabetes should not take beta blockers.

But even at that, I didn't know there was a family history of diabetes. Only in recent years are more people starting to be open about the fact that they have it. Why? Because of the stigma attached to it. Seems people often see type 1 diabetics as people to be pitied and and sometimes frail. Unable to hold down a job, or if they do work, a risk to their employer because they might have a hypo at work. People with type 2 are seen as lazy couch potatoes. Even when we're not. I can't tell you how many times people have told me I brought this on myself from eating too much. Or eating too much sugar. But these people who say this do not know how I used to eat and how I eat now. Really there's not a lot of difference. I was a big eater as a child. But I was very much underweight then. As an adult, I've been a constant dieter, eating very little and trying only to eat healthy food. I was never a couch potato either. Even now that I'm disabled, I still workout when I can and I try to volunteer for things.

[livenraw]

Here's the proof there is a cure:

By HIS stripes, we ARE HEALED.

That's all I need to stand on to believe there is a cure for ANY AND EVERY disease in the world.

[Bingka]

juliebove -

When I state "Being negative and harsh", it was meant towards the words you are using. The statement "they" is what I believe is part of the problem we all have. Not taking responsibility for our situations. I am also guilty of this. Who are "they" anyway? Almost every post in this thread has alot of references to "they". Are we waiting for Mr. They in a lab coat to cure us. I hope not....

With all you have been thru I can appreciate how you feel. You must be a positive person as a whole to endure the things you have described. You have found that raw food helps and you are following this lifestyle. That is a very positive thing. I am talking about the words you use to describe your situation. "never find a cure in your lifetime" You have obviosly done alot of research about your health problems and I applaud you for that. I hope "they" can find a cure for you soon. Until then, I am hoping you will maintain your positive attitude towards your situation (ie..raw foods helping - some symptoms clearing up). I am not in your shoes, and I cannot even imagine not being able to walk and some of the other things you describe.

These are some of my observations. I wish everyone the best of all things.

Ken

[lissomllama]

Well, I personally know people who had type 1 and type 2 and both completely cured it with raw. Every human body is meant to work normally at birth and that includes producing insulin. There were just factors in the womb or in early childhood that caused the problems. When you fix those things with raw, the problems go away because the body gets what it needs and doesn't have what it doesn't need. So yes, raw can/does cure both types of diabetes and it can make you produce insulin on your own. There may be some isolated cases where it doesn't work but I'd be wondering if the raw lifestyle were truly being followed in those cases or if some environmental variables were at play as well.

[juliebove]

juliebove -

When I state "Being negative and harsh", it was meant towards the words you are using. The statement "they" is what I believe is part of the problem we all have. Not taking responsibility for our situations. I am also guilty of this. Who are "they" anyway? Almost every post in this thread has alot of references to "they". Are we waiting for Mr. They in a lab coat to cure us. I hope not....

With all you have been thru I can appreciate how you feel. You must be a positive person as a whole to endure the things you have described. You have found that raw food helps and you are following this lifestyle. That is a very positive thing. I am talking about the words you use to describe your situation. "never find a cure in your lifetime" You have obviosly done alot of research about your health problems and I applaud you for that. I hope "they" can find a cure for you soon. Until then, I am hoping you will maintain your positive attitude towards your situation (ie..raw foods helping - some symptoms clearing up). I am not in your shoes, and I cannot even imagine not being able to walk and some of the other things you describe.

These are some of my observations. I wish everyone the best of all things.

Ken

I guess I have been guilty of using the term "they" since I began to talk. It used to annoy the heck out of my mom. I remember once wanting a certain kind of light bulb. Now I can't remember specifically what it was that I wanted. But I do remember asking her, "Do they make lightbulbs that _____" To which she replied angrily, "Who is this mythical "they" that you keep talking about?" I also remember hopping up and down in annoyance and saying something like, "I don't know. G.E.! Sylvania! Whoever makes lightbulbs!" I suppose I should substiture the word "anyone" for "they". Perhaps that would make more sense.

As for the people in the lab coats and or anyone else. I am not expecting them to cure me. I don't care what the medical situation is, I think if you just sit back and expect someone to cure you, you aren't going to be in a very good situation. I turn to Drs. mainly because I have to. Although diabetes is very much a self managing thing, I can not get some of the tests I need at home. I know that I am more prone to problems with eyes, kidneys, heart, etc. So I go in to have these things tested.

I also go to the Dr. when I am not feeling well or having weird symptoms that I can't sort out by myself. Sometimes it helps just to put a name to what the problem is. For instance, I consider fibromyalgia to be a symptom and one that I have. Drs. don't really know how to treat it except for highly ineffective things like low doses of antidepressants. They'll even admit to you that this treatment isn't very effective but many people who suffer from this condition are willing to try it. I did try it rather unwillingly but I really did want relief. Alas, the meds only caused bad side effects that made me feel worse than I already did.

On my own, I made the connection between thyroid and fibro. My Endo. agreed with me, but not all Drs. think the same way. And some of the things I've found that helped me are of no help to some other people. So it's very much an individual thing.

As far as a "cure" goes, I do know some diabetics who believe there will be a cure. They've been told by some Dr. or nurse or someone else that a cure is just around the corner. And they believe this! But in their cases it's not a good thing to believe this. Because in the meantime they are doing nothing different. They are eating what they want, not testing their blood sugar like they should and suffering complications but they think this is okay for now because after all the cure is just around the corner and when they do become cured and all their complications "fixed" they'll be laughing at "us". "Us" meaning those of us who are doing what we can to manage our diabetes.

[luckitri]

Employers do discriminate against sick people and people with pre-existing conditions even though there are laws against it - they can always find an excuse. If they do genetic testing and find a predisposition to illnesses - well we all hear the news. Some of us are probably having this done now since some employers force you to be cleared by their medical unit prior to giving you the position.

[juliebove]

Employers do discriminate against sick people and people with pre-existing conditions even though there are laws against it - they can always find an excuse. If they do genetic testing and find a predisposition to illnesses - well we all hear the news. Some of us are probably having this done now since some employers force you to be cleared by their medical unit prior to giving you the position.

Oh yes. When I first starting working at one job, we had really good medical insurance that became active 30 days after our start of employment. We paid nothing out of pocket either for the insurance, or Dr. or hospital visits. I think there was a deductible on meds. I wasn't on any meds on a regular basis back then so the measly one or two prescriptions (if that) I had back then were paid for out of pocket with no second thoughts. I know we had to send in paperwork to get the meds covered, but I never bothered to do that until much later and I was on the BP med. But the policy had been changed by then.

At any rate, the word got out about our good insurance and all these newly pregnant women began flocking in. They'd work just enough hours to be eligble for the insurance, hiding their pregnancy and not going to the Dr. until after the insurance kicked in. They'd get all their medical paid for as well as the birth of the baby and well baby care for the next 30 days, then never come back from their maternity leave. This happened so often that every woman who came in to apply for a job was suspect. Then they changed our insurance so that people could not do this any more. The first change was to require a person to work there for 3 months before they could get insurance. That helped but there were still a few women who managed to squeak through and get a pregnancy covered that occured before the start of their employment.

Over the years, the insurance got worse and worse to the point where it is now a joke! One of my friends retired from that company a few years ago but she is still in contact with some people who work there. They were astounded to learn that the hundreds of dollars they were paying each month for insurance not only do not cover Dr. visits, but meds and operations either! She said she read through the booklet about the insurance and was hard pressed to find anything it *did* cover.

[maryonherway]

I have been transitioning in to raw for the past month and have had a great experience. Recently my mother has been diagnosed with type II(?) diabetes the one you can get if you are overweight. I suggested she start to incorperate more raw into her diet. I don't know if having too much fruit will hurt her. Does anybody heard of raw helping with the diabetes???

Poor Gambit&Samus - you asked a simple question and all hell broke loose! As a Type 2 diabetic, I have found that my blood sugar stays pretty level throughout the day since going raw a couple of months ago. The first week it spiked up and down a bit, but then stablized. I feel fantastic. You might want to check out this site - very interesting re: diabetics and raw diets... www.treeoflife.nu/mediatv.html . Good luck with your mom!

[Miss Marie]

Actually I was just at the doctor today to go over my A1C (long recorded blood sugar level) and it is dropping like a stone - it isn't even in the diabetic numbers anymore.

I am still taking a 5mg tab of Glyburide once a day to maintain my bs but it has been so low in the mornings that I might get to stop taking it in a few months ( she wants me to wait until my next A1C) if it continues to go down and stay there.

I am only a borderline diabetic so I don't know if it is the same for your mother. I can eat 4 - 5 fruits a day or whatever I feel like eating.

Seriously if she stops eating any type of processed food like bread or starches she can eat TONS of fruit - it free's up a whole lot of sugar points and your body can process the natural sugar 100 times easier than refined sugar.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Employers do discriminate against sick people and people with pre-existing conditions even though there are laws against it - they can always find an excuse. If they do genetic testing and find a predisposition to illnesses - well we all hear the news. Some of us are probably having this done now since some employers force you to be cleared by their medical unit prior to giving you the position.

I am not sure that it is fair to employers to require them to pay for sick employees who cannot work. Heck, I couldn't afford to have an employee, but to find out they are sick and won't be working, why should I be required to have an unworking person on staff who may never come in or come in when they feel up to it?

[juliebove]

I am not sure that it is fair to employers to require them to pay for sick employees who cannot work. Heck, I couldn't afford to have an employee, but to find out they are sick and won't be working, why should I be required to have an unworking person on staff who may never come in or come in when they feel up to it?

But such is the life of a diabetic. They might not be actually "sick", but employers consider them a liability and as such do not want to hire them. This is why so many diabetics either lie about having it or just ignore it. In some cases if they are diagnosed while unemployed, they have no choice but what to pretend it doesn't exist and hope their records won't be checked or they won't get insurance, if insurance is even offered by their employer.

I lost my job when I became pregnant. This came as a real blow to me because for the two years prior, I had worked lots of extra days and hours to cover for my pregnant coworkers when they had Drs. appointments, didn't feel well enough to come in, or actually had the baby. Alas for my employer almost every one of the female employees had gotten pregnant while working there. By the time I got pregnant, he had gotten fed up with it and let me go. I didn't protest because by then I was pretty much fed up with the job for a variety of reasons. I felt like they had been taking advantage of me and I didn't have a leg to stand on. I was living in an area where jobs were very hard to come by to begin with and if you did manage to get a job you had to put up with all sorts of things like working all day with no breaks whatever. Or being expected to come in to work whenever they needed you. At least I had a husband who was working so that money wasn't vital for me. But I can only imagine the stress it would have caused to someone who really did need the job.