Soy

[Oceana]

Is there any kind of raw soy? I am looking for the health benefits of soy w/o the sugar stuff on the shelves at the market.
If not is there any kind of substitute?
:o

[dreamrawalwz]

You may want to look on this site for other links to soy. There are no "health benefits" of soy, honestly. That's from the soy industry and commercials that promote that, just like milk "does the body good." :( Sorry to dissappoint you though. Others have posted many informative links about soy throughout the site, but off hand I don't know what they are.

[berrymarymac]

Raw tofu is dangerous, just like consuming raw meat.

[lissomllama]

Um, actually there really aren't any health benefits to soy. Quite the opposite, especially to females. Soy is a phytoestrogen, it basically produces a LOT of extra estrogen in the body and for women, that means, a much higher incidence of estrogenic cancers like breast cancer, uterine cancer etc. It also causes severe menstrual pain and it just isn't such a healthy food. I would seriously avoid it.

[dreamrawalwz]

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

[wyjoz]

There is evidence that men get 'breast cancers' due to too much 'estrogen' ! Prostrate cancer is equivalent to uterine cancer! This is just one liner; You (all) search this out for yourselves. Joz

[Tirza]

My 2 cents:
I have mentioned this on another thread, but just because it is under discussion here I will briefly mention it again.

I was a long-time and very avid soy eater. Any form, all the time. Loved it. Still do, actually. But I now try to avoid it totally because of a bout with uterine and ovarian cancer, both caused by too much estrogen.

I thought that I was being smart, eating so much soy. I thought that by eating it I would avoid the need for Hormone Replacement Therapy and all the hot flashes and stuff. Well, I did avoid those things, but I got something else I would rather not have.

I would be very careful about the use of soy now if I were you. Any nutrients that you are convinced that you will get from soy, look for in another food.

[alex]

The best info on soy may be this book:

The Whole Soy Story by Kaayla T. Daniel

Please avoid all things soy.


alex

[LightLover]

* anyone know if the phytoestrogens are still active in fermented soya, for example in miso?

lightlover

[Denise Nicole]

I dropped soy several weeks back from the non-raw part of my diet. It's the best thing I ever did for my health. The results began within a few days.

[vgloveforlife]

We still eat tofu for the calcium and iron but this is only once and awhile. Other than that soy is not a big part of our diet anymore.
A lot of vegans tend to overdose on soy products.
*Everything in moderation*

[wyjoz]

We still eat tofu for the calcium and iron but this is only once and awhile. Other than that soy is not a big part of our diet anymore.
A lot of vegans tend to overdose on soy products.
*Everything in moderation*
we get enough 'calcium' and 'iron' from greens: check out: http://www.spinachwords.com/nutrients2.shtml and http://www.edibleweeds.com/generic.html?pid=6 you could go down and check each 'green' individually! well just one more kale: wow check the calcium and iron! http://www.happyjuicer.com/Nutrition/kale.aspx Hope this helps. RAWgards Joz

[Linda1970]

Sorry but I don't understand why is raw soy bean products (soy sprouts, soy milk) would be bad for you? I don't consume any but my mom consumes a lot of them and now I'm worried for her.

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi Linda,

Here are some articles you can read to understand why soy isn't that good for you (or in your case your mom). The articles are by difference sources and pertaining to different health issues, so you can see it's just not one health source being bias:

The Magic Bean? Soy-tainly Not!
http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/articles/magic_bean.html

Soy: Is it Healthy or is it Harmful
Dr. Joseph Mercola
http://mercola.com/2004/jan/21/soy.htm

Thyroid Disease: The Dangerous Downside of Soy Products
http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.thyroid%2Dinfo.com/articles/soydangers.htm

Soy-Food, Wonder Drug, or Poision – Dr. McDougall
http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl/april/050400pusoy.htm

Coconut-Info.com – Soy Alerts – scroll down to bottom of page:
http://www.coconut-info.com/links.htm

The Dark Side of America’s Favorite “Health” Food
http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.westonaprice.org %2Fsoy%2Fdarkside.html

New Findings on the Soy/Thyroid Connection
Soy Expert Daniel Doerge Revisits the Issue
http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.thyroid%2Dinfo.com/articles/sherrillsellman.htm

The Shadow of Soy by Sean Carson
Requiem for a Thyroid - Drs. Larrian Gillespie, Richard Shames
http://www.coconut-info.com/shadow_of_soy.htm

Phytoestrogens Anti-thyroid agents
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/thyroid.htm

Soy-Based Foods No Good As A Hormone Replacement
http://www.mercola.com/2004/sep/18/hormones_soy.htm

The Truth about Soy
http://www.mercola.com/2004/dec/4/soy_truth.htm

The Whole Soy Story
http://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/26/soy_myths.htm

Soy On Line Service
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

Weston A. Price – hundreds of links on this site
http://www.westonaprice.org/cgi-script/csSearchPro/csSearchPro.cgi?command=query&terms=soy&mbool=AND&mcase=Insensitive

[wyjoz]

all this has been already written about; check this for more to add to Helen of Tennessee's list;

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=135863&posted=1#post135863

[vgloveforlife]

wyjoz-great links! Although I would like to point out that spinach is NOT a reliable source of either iron or calcium because it contains oxalates which hinder the absorption of both nutrients. Apparantly if you search you will also find that spinach has as much iron as lettuce.

We do rely heavily on greens (besides spinach) for most of our iron and calcium but I don't mind having a little tofu once and awhile. Although I do agree soy is too controversial to have daily.

[Tirza]

...I would like to point out that spinach is NOT a reliable source of either iron or calcium because it contains oxalates which hinder the absorption of both nutrients....

I don't have any references at hand, but I have read that the nutrients in RAW spinach are available and that the oxalates don't affect it until cooked.

[Tirza]

* anyone know if the phytoestrogens are still active in fermented soya, for example in miso?

lightlover

I have heard that fermented soy is better than not fermented, which is why I still use a little miso. I guess tempeh would qualify there too. I also like that, so I would be glad to know if fermented is indeed okay.

[JennaBoBenna]

I have heard that fermented soy is better than not fermented, which is why I still use a little miso. I guess tempeh would qualify there too. I also like that, so I would be glad to know if fermented is indeed okay.

Fermented soy is okay :) My bf and I did so much research one night about soy to show some people on a vegetarian forum the dangers. They didn't believe us, but we def. learned a lot about soy!!

[Revvell]

*Everything in moderation*

How boring my life would be if I lived by that code. Can you imagine ~ joy in moderation? loving Him in moderation? Laughter, in moderation? cherries, in moderation? FUN in moderation? No waaaaaaayyyy!

I don't do caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, flouride, diary or meat in any way, not EVEN moderately.

Just cuz someone says something and others quote it, it's not necessary to go along with it.

Revvell

[Oceana]

The reason it is "healthy" for me is because I have too much testosterone in my system due to a illness. So I was told soy will balance it out so to speak.
I have used it for two weeks and have already seen the wonderful results!
It was either go on BC pills or try the soy. (which I did)
So I really have no intention on quitting it, but thanks for the advice.

[JennaBoBenna]

How boring my life would be if I lived by that code. Can you imagine ~ joy in moderation? loving Him in moderation? Laughter, in moderation? cherries, in moderation? FUN in moderation? No waaaaaaayyyy!

I don't do caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, flouride, diary or meat in any way, not EVEN moderately.

Just cuz someone says something and others quote it, it's not necessary to go along with it.

Revvell

I've always felt that way about that quote too, Revvell! When I tell my mother I'm an overeater and can't have even a little bit of cooked food at all and she says "everything in moderation" I just want to scratch my ears off!!

[Spectatrix]

I don't have any references at hand, but I have read that the nutrients in RAW spinach are available and that the oxalates don't affect it until cooked.
It's the opposite, actually. Oxalic acid is broken down with cooking.

In any case, to answer the original question, unpasteurized miso is probably your best bet. It's not raw, but it is live (fermented), much as namu shoyu is.

[LightLover]

Fermented soy is okay :) My bf and I did so much research one night about soy to show some people on a vegetarian forum the dangers. They didn't believe us, but we def. learned a lot about soy!!

Great, I use barley miso from clearsprings, you only need a little for much taste


LL

[Revvell]

I've always felt that way about that quote too, Revvell! When I tell my mother I'm an overeater and can't have even a little bit of cooked food at all and she says "everything in moderation" I just want to scratch my ears off!!

Well good. I'm not the only one then. :) You could stick your fingers in your ears and sing ~ La, la, la, la, laaaaa.... but then SHE'D probably scratch your ears off ~ and pull your tongue out as well. <G>

[lissomllama]

How boring my life would be if I lived by that code. Can you imagine ~ joy in moderation? loving Him in moderation? Laughter, in moderation? cherries, in moderation? FUN in moderation? No waaaaaaayyyy!

I don't do caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, flouride, diary or meat in any way, not EVEN moderately.

Just cuz someone says something and others quote it, it's not necessary to go along with it.

Revvell

I love it! That was the best thing I've read all day. Great advice, revvell, I've always felt the same way.

[Revvell]

I love it! That was the best thing I've read all day. Great advice, revvell, I've always felt the same way.


Good! Now there's three of us. :D

[Larue]

In scanning briefly Helen of TN's articles, the studies were done with 'huge amounts of soy," "60 grams of soy" etc. In other words, if you use soy as a meat substitute and eat it everyday, there might be problems for you. One of these studies mentioned soy lengthening pre menopause, well that didn't happen to me and this was when I was eating some tofu and drinking soy milk.

Another H of TN studies talked about the absence of Asian women with breast cancer and their use of soy, which is probably the originator of soy as helpful to women. But it also said tofu and soy products are not used as meat substitutes there, but as *condiments.* THAT is probably why we, in the US, get into trouble: if a little bit is good than a lot must be better!

So, I am still not convinced that soy is bad, because if you read these studies, you see through them. Doing research doesn't mean to find articles that support what you believe. Research means having a question, reading different points of view and most importantly, find a person's bias, so you know where they are coming from. Just because someone promotes raw foods, doesn't mean they have done objective research in what they write.

[vgloveforlife]

Um Revell I was talking about food.
I think moderation and variety with food is really the key to a healthy diet. That doesn't mean that if you don't want to have something like caffiene that you have to. It just means if you do choose to have something in your diet than have it in moderation. Yeah even cherries.

[vgloveforlife]

sorry double post

[Revvell]

I know what you meant, I still disagree, and my question is "why" and what is "in moderation" and to whom?. Cherries (and many other foods) are out a very short time. When I get them I'll eat 2#'s at a sitting. The only reason I don't eat more is because I eat until satisfied. Most people would not say that's a moderate intake.

I've held myself back from living and enjoying various aspects of my life because of sayings such as that and I refuse to do so any more. Nature gave us certain things in bounty at certain times. IF it's something I like and enjoy, I go for it. My body and my life are an experiment.

AND, your statement was: "Everything" in moderation. I stand by my statement. :)

In addition ~ most people DON'T moderate their food intake especially on SAD yet, they expect us, who eat raw and natural to do so. For instance, my teacher/mentor did an experiment one time with wheatgrass juice. He wanted to find out how he felt the more he did. Building up over a 2-week period he ended with 24 oz. As he was checking out at Whole Foods the cashier asked him: "Isn't that dangerous?" Does anybody ever ask someone who drinks 5-10 cups of coffee a day that question? Does anybody ever ask someone drinking a Big Gulp a day that question?

*shakes head sadly* People are funny.

Ummm, sorry for the hi-jack. If this is to continue, we'll take it to a new thread. I'm done.


Um Revell I was talking about food.
I think moderation and variety with food is really the key to a healthy diet. That doesn't mean that if you don't want to have something like caffiene that you have to. It just means if you do choose to have something in your diet than have it in moderation. Yeah even cherries.

[misslinda]

Whenever this soy issue comes up, I wish that I could find the site that talked about soy back in the 1960's in the US was discovered to be used as a plastic binding material.

:)

[josephina]

I disagree that all soy is bad. I think all bodies react differently to it. I used to have insanely bad cramps while PMSing but they went away when I went vegetarian. I was eating a moderate amount of soy, maybe twice a week, but when I cut it out, the cramps came back with a vengence. I now eat soy once or twice a week and increase it to around 5 times a week right before I start my period. Now I have absolutely no signs of PMS. I have also found that I am much more tired without it so I have learned to listen to what my body asks for.

[Revvell]

I had read that soy would be good for alleviating hot flashes/flushes. Might work for some yet aggravating to me.

[vgloveforlife]

Revvell: To continue this briefly. The reason why is because about everything (meaning food) is bad for you it seems. Using soy as an example..a lot of people think it is a health food and will eat tons of it thinking they are doing a good thing. But now all these new studies are showing that it is in fact determential. That's why I believe in moderation.
Fruit in excess can cause tooth decay, Kale and chard are harmful to the thyroid, fats such as olive oil and nuts may cause heart problems, high fiber foods can leach minerals from the body, sprouts may have harmful toxins in them, etc etc. I guess I play it safe by TRYING to keep things in moderation and lots of variety.
Not saying I'm right and you're wrong-you live by what you feel and I'll do the same :)

Just wanted to add that I could never eat that many cherries at a sitting !! I can't eat much of anything to excess like that. I hear of people who eat like 10 bananas in a day. I could never do that-my body just wouldn't like it.

[misslinda]

I agree with the fact that soy is best soaked and sprouted then heated at high levels and feremented but other than that, this mass production of ISP,soya,texturized protein etc is a mass health risk.

[wyjoz]

I don't have any references at hand, but I have read that the nutrients in RAW spinach are available and that the oxalates don't affect it until cooked.

I read that also and I have it printed out and filed and if I come across it I'll post. Joz

[wyjoz]

Whenever this soy issue comes up, I wish that I could find the site that talked about soy back in the 1960's in the US was discovered to be used as a plastic binding material.

:)
There are many articles to that affect listed in rense.com it's a very corrupt politico/religious issue. I read several links on this subject: but check it out;http://www.skolnicksreport.com/soybean.html and This is interesting: http://www.illuminati-news.com/soy.htm but don't get political on me? Joz

[Linda1970]

Hi Linda,

Here are some articles you can read to understand why soy isn't that good for you (or in your case your mom). The articles are by difference sources and pertaining to different health issues, so you can see it's just not one health source being bias:

The Magic Bean? Soy-tainly Not!
http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/articles/magic_bean.html

Soy: Is it Healthy or is it Harmful
Dr. Joseph Mercola
http://mercola.com/2004/jan/21/soy.htm

Thyroid Disease: The Dangerous Downside of Soy Products
http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.thyroid%2Dinfo.com/articles/soydangers.htm

Soy-Food, Wonder Drug, or Poision – Dr. McDougall
http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl/april/050400pusoy.htm

Coconut-Info.com – Soy Alerts – scroll down to bottom of page:
http://www.coconut-info.com/links.htm

The Dark Side of America’s Favorite “Health” Food
http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.westonaprice.org %2Fsoy%2Fdarkside.html

New Findings on the Soy/Thyroid Connection
Soy Expert Daniel Doerge Revisits the Issue
http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.thyroid%2Dinfo.com/articles/sherrillsellman.htm

The Shadow of Soy by Sean Carson
Requiem for a Thyroid - Drs. Larrian Gillespie, Richard Shames
http://www.coconut-info.com/shadow_of_soy.htm

Phytoestrogens Anti-thyroid agents
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/thyroid.htm

Soy-Based Foods No Good As A Hormone Replacement
http://www.mercola.com/2004/sep/18/hormones_soy.htm

The Truth about Soy
http://www.mercola.com/2004/dec/4/soy_truth.htm

The Whole Soy Story
http://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/26/soy_myths.htm

Soy On Line Service
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

Weston A. Price – hundreds of links on this site
http://www.westonaprice.org/cgi-script/csSearchPro/csSearchPro.cgi?command=query&terms=soy&mbool=AND&mcase=Insensitive
Thanks so much, Helen.

[Tirza]

While all this is interesting, and people's preferences and health requirements have been discussed, I need to remember that I am trying to increase my raw consumption. Soy is rarely eaten raw and when it is, there are even more serious questions as to its safety. I need to evaluate what is actually food for me in these circumstances.

As I said, I love soy. I do not ever eat it now for the nutrients that I expect to obtain from it. I know that I can get those nutrients from other, non-questionable sources. The only reason I eat it now is because I love it. It is something I occasionally "cheat" with on my otherwise raw diet. I don't want to defend my cheat, or justify it with any reason other than that I just "had" to have some because to me it is a great taste treat, and I hope like mad that a comparatively small amount won't cause me harm. (I AM planning to conquer this weakness.)

On the other hand, if soy is really needed for medicinal reasons, that is a whole other thing. But we should be diligent in determining if it really is needed or if something else less questionable could be used in its place. If not, it isn't really a diet or nutritional issue. It is then a medical issue.

I can relate to this because in certain cases, I as an Orthodox Jew can use pills or medicines that are not certified as "kosher". I would make an effort to obtain Kosher medicine, but if it is not possible, I would certainly be advised to use the non-kosher source. In a case like that it would not be considered so much a matter of eating as it would then be considered a matter of preserving health, and perhaps even life. I would take it without hesitation and without feeling like I had violated my committment to Kashrut. I am sure that most others with religious restrictions would receive the same advice when health and life issues are involved.

In the same way, if I really, without a doubt, had to take something that was cooked to improve or preserve my health, even though I was committed to raw, I would take it like a medicine. In either case though, it would be a pretty rare, not a common occurrence. And I don't think it would be me determining how "necessary" it was.

I do sympathize with those who have PMS or menopause issues. However, knowing what I know now, I would carefully look into other ways of obtaining the desired result with something else, like some herbal tea or formula, even if it was not raw either. (That is how strongly I feel about it) I know a woman who had horrible issues with those things and she took some herbs, which she claimed, made living her life possible. See an herbalist or Chinese Dr. or whoever might be able to suggest something. Even a Net search might bring up suggestions that you could then ask about when you see someone.

Make sense? Logical? Humane? L'Chaim!