Thinking about going vegan.....

[Lay-Lay]

Well of course I don't eat any animal products, but I have never ever considered myself vegan because of I have multiple leather items and well have enjoyed them. I have no plans as of yet to give up honey. It is something I rarely have, but I enjoy it and I have a reliable source for it.

This post I am asking those who "ARE" vegan, did you get rid of all the leather items you had when you went vegan? If so what did you do with them?

How did you all start this process?

http://www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com/anderson-vid.asp

This site/video is in part why I am grasping this new thinking. My hubby has said he will never ever eat here again, but for me it means so much more. If this is allowed them what else is?

I know that vegan is a very sensitive subject for some, so if you have views that oppose vegan please keep them off of this thread. Thank you.

[dreamrawalwz]

I live at home and current am sitting on a leather couch. It's really comfortable (but not from the leather) and i'd rather sit here than the hard floor. It's not my choice though since this is my parents' house. When I get my own place I want all organic/natural fibers and material including hemp, bamboo flooring, ect. So yes, I would not to leather if i had a choice right now.

[Lay-Lay]

yes I hear ya dream, don't think getting rid of your parents couch would go over to well. I have leather jackets and coats and I have leather shoes, I also have leather seats in my car. I see no point in getting rid of these things, although I do not plan on getting anymore items that are animal products. Did you folks get rid of your stuff or keep it and not get anymore? What are your thoughts on the subject?

[Sharon in Colorado]

Why get rid of the leather, it would be a waste. I would just make use of the leather/wool/silk etc. I already have, not buy new stuff, or if I wanted that kind of material buy it second hand.

Whoops, just read your other post and see you weren't planning on doing that anyway. Heh.

[Lay-Lay]

yes I would think it would be a waste and well getting a new car is out of the question. I have only had it a year and still owe plenty on it and well I like my car.

[JennaBoBenna]

I have leather shoes, and boots with rabbit fur on them that I bought before I made the decision to be vegan. I didn't wear them for awhile, but I don't mind so much anymore. I spend the money already, I might as well wear them. Also, my fave shoes in the whole world are made with leather.

[spicyfull]

I don't eat any animals or any animal by products. But I wear leather and suede and have no plans to change.

I am a recycler, everything should be recycled. I eat this way for my HEALTH and each man makes his own decisions in Life. I am not a member of any group and if I wore a fur coat and someone threw paint on it, they would just have to pay for another one.

Our Children are dying in Iraq...They are dying on our streets, they are dying at the hands of Adults.........They are more than animals.

That is my openion and like everyone else, I am entitled to one.......

[madmel]

Lay-Lay,

your thread got me thinkin'.

Vegans don't consume (in any way) animal products - that would include buying and using leather items not only not eating animal products.

So, if we consider ourselves "raw vegans" (and this is the motto of the board), then it actually also implies not using other animal products besides food.

So, if I continue wearing my beloved leather jacket or my favourite shoes and sit on the leather seats in my car and opening my leather purse - could I be a REAL raw vegan?

a thinking mel

[Judy]

Indeed, real raw vegans wouldn't use any animal (by) products whatsoever, including leather, fur, wool, silk but also no honey etc. My bet is that a lot of people on this board wouldn't qualify as real 100% vegan.
I don't mind though, I think we are all doing our best, we are all learning. I also don't really like labeling and stuff. I wouldn't call myself a vegan, because I just started raw and still eat animal products sometimes, but I'm working towards a 100% animal product free diet. Am even thinking about giving up honey on this moment. Also, I do wear leather at the moment. I bought my shoes years ago and they are made of leather and I still wear them.
I am thinking about alternatives though, about what I would use and buy if I'd purchase new clothing and new shoes. I don't buy silk, because I know what they do to the caterpillars and of course I don't use fur.
I think sometimes it is difficult though, for example: I love to flamenco dance. Well, you need special shoes for this. And they are all made out of leather. There are as far as I'm concerned no alternatives for this, the shoes are all made in Spain by artisans. Or you would have to ask them to make shoes out of fake leather, maybe they would do that. That's just one example. The other is that I take djembé courses every once in a while. A djembé is an African drum, made of wood and goat skin. I don't mind that, however, if I'd purchase one myself, I'd probably look into alternatives. There are some made of glasfiber and I think synthetic drum skin or something like that. They got to have a good sound though and the material certainly makes a difference.
And then you have this: I love using natural materials and fibers, and there aren't a lot of (for example) shoes made out of that (especially if you live in a cold climate, you wouldn't want to wear linen shoes in the winter). I know that Dr Martens sells vegan shoes, the famous black Dr Martens, and that they are made of plant fibers. In the future I'd love to live in a warmer climate so I can walk bear foot, wear slippers or shoes made of natural fibers, and dresses and clothing made of hemp, linen and cotton, preferably organic. And beautiful also! Some of those organic clothes are either dull or very expensive.
As for now, when I buy clothing, they are usually made of natural breathing fibers like cotton and linen. I don't buy organic yet, but would love to eventually. And yes, I'm also thinking about alternatives for leather shoes. But I think making everything from synthetic materials isn't a really nature friendly option either (on the other hand, here I am typing on my plastic computer, so what am I talking about...).

[ambermum]

I agree with not wasting non-vegan items that we may already have. If we aren't BUYING any animal products, not contributing to that cycle, then surely we are living as vegans? I've heard the debate over honey and products with honey, and only yesterday read on the Garden of Life website (I had always considered honey a no-no for vegans) that it is a product bees make from pollen but is in no part constituted of the bee itself. This would make honey fine in my book -- does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Lyn

[Judy]

Here's something about honey. It says that European bees store honey, more than they can use up themselves, so beekeepers use the excess honey. I know beekeepers who take good care of their bees, leaving them more than enough honey to live on in the winter, and using the rest, processing it cold etc. So there's also a big difference between mass produced convential honey (where the bees are not treated well, the beekeepers take more of the honey than needed and feed the bees sugar water instead, furthermore they use heat in the processing, thus destroying all the nutrients in the honey) and raw organic honey. But ofcourse, bees make/store honey for themselves, as food. Just like cows, goats and sheep produce milk, not for humans, but for their calves.

http://www.honey.com/kids/facts.html

And here's a link on how honey is produced. Bees do máke it sort of. They suck up nectar and spit it out later after a lot of chewing, so they actually process it for it to become honey. You also have to know that one bee only produces about one tea or tablespoon (I'm not sure which one) in his entire life. So it Ã*s kind of hard work if you think of how many spoons of honey there are in a jar.

http://www.pa.msu.edu/sciencet/ask_st/073097.html

And if you want to know more about bee pollen:

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/bee.htm (you have to scroll down somewhat)

So okay, there may be beneficial aspects in using (different) bee products (but there are also enough beneficial aspects when eating just raw plant based food) and many people may love the taste of honey for example, it takes a lot of effort for bees to produce it. Everyone should decide for himself of course, but now you know a little more about where honey is coming from.

[Denise Nicole]

Vegan here! The rule of thumb is use up or donate what you already own, don't purchase anymore animal products. After several months of being vegan I chose to donate mine, there was too much negative suffering attached to the item (mainly Italian leather shoes).

Since it already existed, I donated it to charity, they will either give it away, or most likely sell it in their thrift store creating money for utilities, rent, or the food pantry for area families. The person who purchased it, uses it up for me, and doesn't purchase new (less consumption). By not purchasing these type of items along with so many others, the hope is production for these items falls. On a side note, I get down right gitty with a yard sale or thrift store find! No production as I am using it up for someone else (vegan of course)!

That all being said, I don't know how I would have handled a large leather purchase. Most likely either tried to sell it and replace it or just use it up until I needed to replace it.

[Judy]

I chose to donate mine, there was too much negative suffering attached to the item

I recognize that. I don't have problems with my shoes (yet), but notice that the energy or aura of some other stuff isn't really nice. To mention: a table my bf and I have been given by my father in law a whole time back. It is an old wooden table, my father in law used in an old French mill house as his reading/salon table. I liked it very much then. When he moved, he gave it to us. Now it is sitting in the... ehm, what's it called, like a shed or something, were we store our bikes. It just doesn't fit in our house, we were to save it for a bigger house. Nowadays I don't want that table anymore, not even in the shed. I want to give it away. Why? Because it used to be a butcher's table on which pigs got degutted and cut to pieces. I don't know if they got killed on it as well, or if that took place elsewhere. I didn't used to give it a lot of thought back then, but now it doesn't really seem like a nice table to me :eek:. And yes, I know I can do the whole energy clearing thing etcera, but well...

[Framboise]

Some people call themselves "health vegans", i.e. they only go vegan for their physical health and disregard the more spiritual holistic side.

If that is one's reason for going "vegan", then I suppose there is no ethical problem wearing leather because who cares if an animal had to be slaughtered to provide you with the leather jacket/shoes/armchair?

But health vegans are the minority. Most vegans are also concerned with the exploitation of animals and would find it hard to use leather products. I still have some old shoes that have not yet worn out, and I thought I would "wear them out". But they are NOT wearing out, because I cannot bear to put them on anymore, now that I realise the suffering that went into the manufacture of my shoes. So I reckon I will be giving them to charity very soon. The same with a beautiful leather jacket that I "inherited" when my Mum died. I just cannot bear to put it on - although it also has good memories because it was worn and loved by my dear dear Mum.

[rawpriestess]

My food/lifestyle choices were a transition into a more spiritual place.


I had a vision in therapy in 1995, and I knew I would never eat another meat, fowl or fish again, I saw them as part of the god source, and yes, I understand that we are all one, so I will not eat a human or any animal.

I did go without eggs also, as I saw that as a small embrio of a chicken, duck etc.

I continued to consume dairy, as no animal was killed in the making of it, and yet, it still felt wrong to me, because of the cruelty of keeping cows pregnant for the milk, taking away their babies etc.

I used to do honey, until someone called me on it, and it all of a sudden dawned on me, that honey, oh yeah, that is an animal food, and product.

Well, in answer to your question, I gave away all of my fur coats, but kept the one highly prized by me, leather coat, never wear it, that took me 3 years to save for in my early 20's it was a financial status symbol for me, along with the leather seats in my Mercedes, so I'm not tossing them at $2K a piece,

but I will not buy any thing with leather on or in it, or gloves, or shoes or anything, I now only buy
Birkenstocks that are made of fabric, is someone gives me a present with leather or fur, I simply say thank you for the lovely gift, and thought, and I use or wear it for them, not for me.

I do not want to put any negative energy into this as I feel ANY energy put into a situation will put focus on it, and manifest more in your life, so I don't put any energy into it, by talking about it, writing about it, telling people how wrong they are etc.

I allow each person to make their own decisions on all things.

The more spiritual I become, the more I am drawn to the knowingness that we are all one, and what hurts one of us, hurts us all equally, physically or mentally.

But this is my story, hope it helped.

[asil]

I do not want to put any negative energy into this as I feel ANY energy put into a situation will put focus on it, and manifest more in your life, so I don't put any energy into it, by talking about it, writing about it, telling people how wrong they are etc.



That's my approach too. I don't really think about this much or have a particular plan, but I find I am just not drawn to having any more leather in my possession. I do still own leather, but have noticed that when I clean out my closet each season, I've been giving away my leather goods because I've just stopped using them. My car, a Mercedes, only came with leather seats, and I've never really liked them -- I think cloth is more comfy. I'm trading it in for either a diesel, to run on biodiesal, or a hybrid, next year and I'll be looking for a model that comes with cloth.

But I do think it's important to look at the whole health of the planet and all the creatures who live on it when making buying decisions. For example, it strikes me that conventionally grown cotton is one of the most destructive things around. And vinyl, made from petroleum products, is connected to some of the world's worst violence and environmental destruction. It's pretty easy to buy clothes and linens and towels made from hemp or organic cotton. Shoes, in my warm climate, can be mostly made of hemp or cotton, but the soles will usually be made rubber, or leather, etc.

The best, most freeing thing I've been able to do is to just buy less of most things. I used to be a shopaholic, with closets full of clothes with the tags still on. How happy I feel to be able to walk past a store without buying something, and to have a roomy, rather that stuffed closet.

Anyway, it's all complicated and I try to make the least harmful decisions I can, knowing that all such decisions are a compromise. :)

[livingatthetop]

think for a while.

[livingatthetop]

If we are what we eat then I am vegan :D :) :D

I have my own theory, I am spiritually in touch with myself and God and that is mainly due to what I eat.


Short and sweet

[Sharon in Colorado]

think for a while.

Woman, that took 4 whole minutes? ;)

[livingatthetop]

Yea,I am a fast thinker it comes with an honest mind.

[lissomllama]

I am fully vegan but I do own some things that are leather, wool and silk that I was previously given or bought in the past. I haven't and wont be buying any more but I might still use some of the things I already have unless their energy gets too negative. I also refuse to put any money toward anything that is tested on animals.

[codajess]

I don't own anything that is fur/suede/leather, and haven't for years. Although I am "only" vegetarian, I do not purchase any of the above, nor buy any consumables that are tested on animals.
A lot of people who have turned veg*n either wear what they have until it wears out, or they give it away/sell it/whatever. If you decide to keep <insert nonvegan item here>, prepare yourself for a lot of accusations of being a hypocrite.
I have a tee shirt somewhere that says "Yes I'm a vegetarian. No my shoes aren't leather. Yes I get enough protein."

I've argued this topic into the ground on this board; hence my signature links.

There are no "health vegans." Vegan is a LIFESTYLE that minimizes cruelty to and exploitation of animals. Maybe they follow a vegan diet, but they are by no means vegan.

Regarding the "how honey is made," and that it isn't part of the bee, so does that make it ok: You are correct in that it isn't part of the bee; but that doesn't mean it's "ok" for vegans. All that means is that it's vegetarian, since it comes FROM the animal and isn't a part of the dead animal. It is NOT vegan, as it comes from a living being. No matter how well they are treated, or the process of getting the honey is done, it comes from an animal, and that makes it unvegan.

You can have your own farm, with your own cows that will never be slaughtered. Even if the cows are treated like queens, it would not be vegan to take and consume their milk. It's exploiting the cow, and depriving the calf of what belongs to him/her. So, although vegans (and most vegetarians) are vegan/vegetarian because of the welfare of the animal, it goes beyond that.

No matter how the bees are treated, and how the beekeepers gather the honey, it's not vegan.

ETA: When I say prepare yourself for a lot of accusations of being a hypocrite, I don't mean from other veg*ns. I mean from omnivores.

[codajess]

I forgot to add that I think it's great you're thinking about going vegan.
I strive to be vegan. You'd be surprised what things animal products are in. I'm still trying to find a decent mascara that doesn't have beeswax in it.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Storm and Jinjee from www.thegardendiet.com refer to themselves as vegans, and I know they use honey.

I wonder if the term vegan has been copyrighted or trademarked by the one who coined it.

[Framboise]

I wonder if the term vegan has been copyrighted or trademarked by the one who coined it.

Donald Watson ( http://www.foodsforlife.org.uk/people/Donald-Watson-Vegan/Donald-Watson.html ) did not copyright or trademark the word.

[codajess]

But he did coin it. Therefore, methinks his definition would be "the" definition.

[Framboise]

codajess: I agree with you.

(Watson was a GREAT man. A beacon of light in the darkness.)

[raintree]

For me leather is now the same as wearing any other animal skin, so I don't do it. Seen as I don't have a car or leather couches etc, all I had to do was get new belts and shoes, but I didn't have to rush into this. I was uncomfortable wearing them so I did buy new belts sooner than I would have, but otherwise I don't think you have to get rid of what leather you do have if you don't have a problem with having it around; you just don't buy more of it if you wanna be vegan.

(My thoughts are that anyway :rolleyes: )

Millions of animals are killed for leather alone, so it's not like it's always just a by-product. If you go on google video and watch Earthlings (it's free) and watch what the cows go through in the leather industry... well, I guess you have to make up your own minds if that's value for money. I was shocked.

[Lay-Lay]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and comments and links. It is all greatly appreciated and I will take it to heart.