View Full Version : 3yo raw kid w/cavities
08-26-2006, 11:32 AM
I am so discouraged right now and scared, that I am going to have to have my son Dillan go through the horrors of having his teeth drilled and filled.
I'm so against this, and never thought we would have such a problem, but the dentist found 4 (!) cavities. Very, very small still, but regardless ... cavities!
Dillan is 100% raw, always has been. He eats mostly fruit, some sprouted seeds, salads and veggies occasionally as well. I think the problem might be, that he likes to snack off and on all day long, and it is mostly fruits. He eats a ton of it.
I have to admit, we didn't brush his teeth for the first few years much, but I also wasn't worried about cavities, I thought being raw was enough. Please don't bash me on this, I realize, I was wrong thinking that now.
I tried to search this site for info, but didnt' come up with much, or the threads were old.
I have read some, and hope that I can find a way to get his teeth to strengthen up and remineralize and stop his teeth from decaying more! I can't find the link to certain books anymore, that described how your saliva has much to do with the healing process in your mouth.
I am under time pressure as well. Dillan's next dentist appointment is Oct. 25th. If I haven't been able to make process then, Dillan will have to go. My husband is going to need a lot of persuading, and if I can't show results for the better (maybe visiting an alternative dentist to get an honest answer on the state of Dillan's teeth), he will insist on getting Dillan's teeth filled.
What I need is reviews on books and any advice on what is going on with Dillan's teeth!
Oh and we are now using an irrigator, I've had it, just didn't use it. I rinse Dillan's teeth once a day with it now and try to brush his teeth at least twice a day. We are using Weleda children's toothpaste (good? bad?).
08-26-2006, 11:49 AM
I really don't have answers for you as to what to do,I did want to share my story with you.
I took both of my kids to the dentist and without my even asking me the dentist started preparing to give both of my kids fillings.When i asked what was going on the nurse said "oh were gonna have to give both your kids fillings",I was like hold up what kind of fillings white i hope and they said NO silver.Well i did refuse treatment for the both of then,And they still tried to convince me that silver filling are perfectly safe and blah blah blah all this other crap.I am on medical so my insurance only pay for the silver and will not pay for white,And here i was thinking that silver fillings were banned from california.
If i were you i would go to a holistic dentist if you have that kind of money..
08-26-2006, 12:02 PM
I would suspect that the problem arose from the fact that he was eating a lot of fruit and not brushing his teeth. Did you perhaps put fruit juices in his baby bottle a lot?
Now... if you were my little sister, I would tell you to stop worrying so much!!! Get those cavities filled and in future, make sure he learns the importance of brushing his teeth. :)
My kid had five cavities in his teeth... when he was five years old. One was nearly down to the nerve. All because I didn't realise that all that fruit juice and fruits were destroying his teeth.
He IMMEDIATELY started taking care of his teeth regularly... and has never had a hole since. And he is now 15 years old and the dentist hygienist congratulates him on his healthy clean teeth. :)
Please DO NOT FEEL GUILTY. Parents make mistakes and you will make a whole lot in the future too. But MOST OF THE TIME YOU DO NOT MAKE MISTAKES and that is what you need to concentrate on.
Weleda toothpaste is in my opinion excellent and it is not tested on animals.
08-26-2006, 12:13 PM
A couple of things to consider:
How bad are the cavities? I have known dentists who jump at the chance to fill anything. I had an old school dentist for years that perfered to "watch" the cavity to see if it got worse. After he retired I went through 3 dentists to find another with a similar outlook.
If the cavities are fairly mild are they on teeth which will come out in the next couple of years? If they aren't bad they could keep an eye on them, and possibly the teeth will fall out before anything needs to be done.
You may need a second dentist to answer these questions. Ask around to find a good second dentist. You can have the x-rays forwarded so you won't have to pay for that again.
Finally, if they have to be filled, just get it done and learn from here. I hope it works out for you. :)
08-26-2006, 12:14 PM
If you can I would definetely get the white composite fillings done and certainly not the silver I am totally against that and will never allow that in my childs teeth. I have already mentioned to my Hubby if die suddenly ect (you never know) please make sure that you get composite fillings in our dd's teeth if ever needed. I had my silver fillings removed last yr and i am so happy I had the chance to do it. Hope this helps and good luck.
The so-called "silver" fillings are NOT SAFE! As the parent of two children with autism, one mild and one severe, you absolutely DO NOT want amalgam fillings! Amalgam fillings are made up of a large percentage of mercury, which is a very potent neurotoxin!
I am in the process of having all my amalgam fillings removed, and, as you have all discovered, my insurance will not pay for them, but it's worth it for my health to have this poison out of my mouth. Fortunately, my dentist also has a son with autism, and is a "mercury-free" dentist - she will not use amalgam fillings in her office. It still amazes me that the American Dental Association has not stopped the use of amalgam fillings. I hate to say it, but it's all about money!
With regard to preventing future cavities, the key is either to brush your children's teeth after drinking juice or eating fruit (particularly sticky dried fruits as I've been told the most damage to teeth comes right after eating sugary foods) and drinking a lot of water.
My younger son with severe autism has yet to have x-rays or a teeth cleaning due to not being able to sit still because of his disability (we have been to the dentist for brief exams, as much as he can tolerate). I brush his teeth thoroughly every morning and evening, but I know he needs a full exam. However, they want to have him go under anesthesia to do it, and I'm afraid of that. I'm hoping we can get a more complete exam and partial cleaning without doing that, as I'm really afraid of complications from anesthesia.
Anyway, I hope this helps...
08-26-2006, 12:35 PM
Before you do anything read through these sites:
08-26-2006, 12:38 PM
Dillan has never had a bottle, and he doesnt' drink fruit juices, except fresh orange juice occasionally.
His cavities are very, very small, I can only see one, in between his two top incisors. And it is barely visible. They might not even need filling yet, but the dentist we went to is very conventional.
And Dillan is 3, so his teeth won't come out until another 3 or so years.
08-26-2006, 12:41 PM
Thanks GilmoreGirl, I'll read those sites
08-26-2006, 02:06 PM
When my daughter was 4 she had 2 cavities (we wern't high raw then) I decided to just wait it out and she is 5, almost 6 now and they haven't got worse yet. I really should bring her to the dentist soon though.
I would recommend waiting it out and if you do get fillings, get the composite ones definitley.
I would also recommend to cut down on fruit a little bit. Eat more greens and include seaweed in your son's diet. If he does eat fruit or dried foods just swish afterward. Make sure to get plenty of calcium rich foods too.
We use eco-dent toothpaste which helps to remineralize the teeth. We also use dr bronners soap on our teeth.
08-26-2006, 02:23 PM
not an expert here but my 2 cents is maybe he's calcium deficient . maybe needs more dark greens say in smoothies . also sesame seeds ground up in blender befote adding other ingredients for smoothie would supply alot of calcium .
and i think the pascalite clay has been said to heal cavaties , do a search theres several companys that sell it out of wyoming , wait i'll get my bottle = email@example.com .
08-26-2006, 02:47 PM
I went to the dentist recently to get two teeth filled. He said I needed to stop drinking soda. o_O
I told him I don't...he said many are genetic. But I hope your baby doesn't have to have them! I still remember getting stuff done to my teeth when I was really young and they are pretty bad memories. NO SILVER!! I had all my silver ones taken out along with my crowns and get white fillings before I got braces and dental appliances, so at the age of 9 or so.
08-26-2006, 04:12 PM
I have heard of toothpaste having glycerin which coats the teeth and prevents remineralization, does your toothpaste have that?
08-26-2006, 04:45 PM
It's not raw, but if you're really in a bind and want to remineralize the teeth "naturally" and quickly, you should check into Xylitol. Type the word into Google, to find a ton of research on the dental benefits of using xylitol. Dig a little and you can find the actual studies done. It's been tested in & used in Switzerland, Germany, and Japan for years.
08-26-2006, 06:07 PM
Please don't waste your energy feeling guilty, BTDT and it didn't help at all. My boys have both had small cavaties. Their dentist is great with them, she will not do anything but white fillings on children, so that wasn't an issue. If the cavaties are small, and really need to be filled, they may not even need anything for numbing. At the least, you should get a second opinon.
08-26-2006, 07:04 PM
Yes, I think I will need to find a dentist with different views, unfortunately our insurance won't cover that at all.
And you are right, the cavities are so miniscule, that they shouldn't need numbing. But I know, the dentist we went to, will never go for that, she'll have some reason, to tell me it's nessecary to numb.
So yes, we will have to find a different dentist.
08-26-2006, 09:12 PM
I never ate sweets when I was little, I still got some cavities. My mother wouldn't let them put silver in me, only white fillings. I am very thankful to her for this. I wish your little boy's teeth the best.
08-26-2006, 09:49 PM
I just read about the Perfect Prescription and the tooth soap, but I can't find anywhere it lists the ingredients ..... I see what is not in it, but not what is in it.
08-26-2006, 10:13 PM
Feed him dulse, it's rich in minerals. I put it in my salad.
The last time I saw the dentist, one tooth was occasionally hurting, and he saw a spot that might be an incipient cavity. I looked on the Net and read about dulse. I started eating it regularly, and the pain slowly went away over a month or two and hasn't been back.
08-27-2006, 06:45 AM
Bella: Ingredients are: Specially formulated soap made from saponified coconut, palm, and olive oils and essential oil
IMO it seems rather expensive for such limited ingredients.
I didn't get cavities until I was 21 when I got pregnant. I only wish that my daughter would have acquired my genes.
I think Pierre is right, seaweed is a great addition to the diet.
I also agree with the clay. You might not brush your teeth with it but just let it sit for a few minutes on the cavities to draw them out.
Make sure to add lots of calcium rich foods to his diet such as Kale, collards, almonds, tahini, figs
08-27-2006, 01:06 PM
I actually just recently bought dulse, and I have been topping sprouted beans and legumes with it. He likes it, so I'll keep doing that.
I might give the clay a try, but I have to read up a little more on what others use for their teeth.
And I'll definitely be more conciencous about calcium rich foods, try and add more of those as well.
Thanks for your guys' suggestions so far. :)
08-28-2006, 09:21 AM
first of all, you definitely need to get a second opinion. many dentists will insist that anything they find "needs" filling because, let's face it, it makes them money.
i am 28 and have never had a cavity in my life and when i was 17 the dentist told my dad i needed sealant put on the crowns of my perfectly healthy molars in order to prevent the formation of cavities that weren't even THERE. a few days later the sealants fell off. i think my body rejected them :p i didn't tell my dad because i knew he would make me go back and get more.
secondly, if the cavities (if that's what they are) aren't causing your son any pain or suffering, why on earth would your husband "insist" that he has to go through having them filled, especially since they are baby teeth? i would have a long talk with him about why he would be so adamant. does dillan say his teeth hurt or react in a pained manner when he eats cold or acidic foods? if not, what is your husband's issue?
ITA with the other posters on the seaweed and the calcium-rich foods. i went veg when i was in my mid/late teens and i'm sure my higher intake of all of the foods mentioned (especially tahini- i LOVE hummus) has something to do with my being the only person in my group of friends who has never had a single cavity.
08-28-2006, 09:33 AM
You might wish to get and read Victoria Boutenko's book "Green for Life" if you've not already done so. In it she says that she and her family had been raw for a number of years yet found their teeth deteriorating and how could that be? After lots of research she said that she found greens are the solution. 1 quart (minimum) per day seems to be sufficient. PLUS one needs to chew something as well to keep the bones strong. Sort of like eating REALLY good and still doing weight-bearing exercise is the way to go.
Sharon in Colorado
08-28-2006, 09:41 AM
I'd get a second opinion. I've had dentists who are conservative on filling baby teeth that are going to come out anyway.
08-28-2006, 10:36 AM
GaiaLyn ...... as for my husband insisting ..... one reason would be, that the dentist found cavities and they need to be filled. Period.
I would also want them filled, IF I can't find a way to stop them from getting bigger. Because, like somebody else mentioned, while they are small, they might not need numbing while being filled, but once they get to a certain size, they will definitely need numbing.
And yes, they are his baby teeth, but he still has 3+ years until they come out ..... plenty of time for cavities to get much bigger.
But I will hopefully only have to worry about that, if I can't stop the decay. And I'm going to try my best to heal my babies teeth.
Thanks for the suggestion Revvel, on Vicoria Boutenko's book. I hadn't heard about it (I do have a couple of her earlier books though), but I will definitely read about it.
Now on to the task of finding an alternative thinking dentist.
08-28-2006, 11:22 AM
As long as you brush his teeth thoroughly, they should be fine. With good brushing and high mineral intake, they'll remineralize. I once had a tiny cavity in the pit on the rear side of my molar -- it didn't have to be filled, I simply had to brush well and it took care of itself. I wasn't even eating particularly well at that time and it still remineralized.
08-28-2006, 12:30 PM
Listen to what Victoria has to say about greens, here:
08-28-2006, 12:44 PM
Another suggestion is that if you are using a pediatric dentist is to look for a family dentist who will work with young children. My boys dentist is a family dentist, but she will work with young children. Actually, she's very good with kids. Plus she breastfed her own, so she's not into pushing the breasting at night is to blame line. She really wants to establish their trust in her and will not push farther than they will willingly go, and will often set up multiple appointments to spread out procedures, so they don't need to be in the chair so long.
09-18-2006, 07:12 AM
I am discouraged to say that my daughters cavaties are getting bigger. I looked at her top teeth last night and was amazed how big the cavity has grown in just a few months. I don't know if it is just her high raw diet...it could be the change of toothpaste, I really don't know but it is very discouraging.
09-18-2006, 01:13 PM
Ok, I used to be a dental assistant for a pediactric practice and a general practice. Here's the thing:
Please don't feel guilty, no matter what diet you're on or whoever you are, there's always a chance of getting cavities. You live and you learn.
There are a couple of reasons for cavity developement. One reason can be genetics. If the mother's bacteria seem to be more aggressive the child's could be as well,(I've never been 100% sure about this one). Another reason is that whenever there is food material sitting on the teeth,(it doesn't matter if it's SAD food or fresh squeezed orange juice), the bacteria in the mouth immediately start to interact with it. Yes it can be more dramatic with high-sugared foods, but it really goes for every food. That's the #1 reason for bottle rot. Milk is given to the child at night for a long period of time so the mouth bacteria is constantly beating up on the teeth.
Cavities are anarobic, meaning they can only form where there is no air. This is the most important thing to know. All that matters for preventing tooth decay is to create an environment where cavities can't form. So when there is a coating of food or plaque over the teeth or there is a sticky sweet food stuck in the grooves of the biting surface of the molars or if there is food in between the teeth, cavities will form. Pretty much if you get all of the food material off the surface of the teeth cavities won't have the proper environment to form.
With this said it is crucial that you FLOSS!!! I havn't heard anyone mention the F word yet, and this is even more important than brushing. Flossing is the only way that you can properly remove all of the materials from between the teeth. You can brush for hours and it won't get in between the teeth. I only recommend floss. No water picks or jets or whatever they have these days. I can't stress the importance of flossing enough.
Now, as for reversing the decaying process, you can't. Once the decay has broken through the tooth's enamel and into the dentin it is a working cavity
and will grow. Now, I'm not to savvy on natural practices for teeth, but I would love to be proved wrong on this part ;) .
Don't get too freaked out about getting them filled. Dentistry has come a long way in just a couple of years. Since these are small your child will not need novacaine, and most dentists these days do composits(white) fillings.
I would recommend trying to find a pedo dentist, especially if your dentists seems awkward with children. It is important that your dentist understands children, and if they do the experience can be quite positive. Believe me I know :D
09-18-2006, 02:18 PM
I swear by toothsoap & a natral bristle toothbrush. I regrew a chipped tooth in 6 months. I had that chipped tooth since I was a kid! Toothsoap is not expensive at all because I bought a container of the liquid over a year ago & it looks like i've hardly used it. Plus it saves you money on dental issues. Just my 2 cents.
10-15-2006, 08:37 PM
You can just buy natural soap from the health food store and use that - much cheaper.
It is easy to say floss kids teeth, I wonder how they would let you!
10-15-2006, 09:13 PM
It is easy to say floss kids teeth, I wonder how they would let you!
There are new products on the market now to try to get kids into the flossing. We used to give out these hand held dino-flossers, which were plastic dinosaurs that would act as the handle and hold the floss so the kids didn't have to wrap the floss around their fingers. It also made it easier for parents to get in there. It's about teaching good dental habits at a young age, and flossing is the most important one to teach.
10-16-2006, 12:31 AM
Don't beat yourself up!
There is evidence that cavities are caused by a virus. I had zero cavities until about 2 years after I met hubby. He had awful cavities.
So perhaps there wasn't anything you could have really done except brush a bit better. Now you know, so go get other opinions, brush well, esp after the last food of the day, and follow the lovely advice others have given you.
The thing with molars is that they're the last to come n and the last to go. He might be as old as 11 when they come out.
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