Food Poisining

[vgloveforlife]

Since going raw almost 4 months ago me and my daughter have gotten food poising 3 times! My daughter woke up last night throwing up. She threw up 5 times and now she has a fever. It's not a virus because I feel the same way. I rarely throw up but my stomach is bothering me among other symptoms.
When we were on a cooked diet this never happened eventhough we did eat some raw foods.

I am really starting to worry about her. This way of eating just doesn't seem safe anymore if this continues to happen. Anyone else experience this? What are some ways to avoid food poisining? Are there any vegan foods that cause it more often than others?

Thanks for reading.
I am getting so discouraged with raw foods when my daughter looks this sick. :(

[Conscious Midwife]

How do you know it's food poisning?

Will cooking your foods "always" provide protection from food borne illnesses which most often are caused by poor hygiene or spoilage.

[vgloveforlife]

Lifeagift-I am pretty positive it is food poisining. What else could it be? This is a child who has never had this before going raw.
We both felt similar symptoms which rules out a virus because that will hit only one person in the household at a time.

The more I think of what she ate yesterday I think alfalfa sprouts were the culprit. We went out to eat at a salad bar. We both got alfalfa sprouts there. That night we both felt really bad.

She is sleeping right now with a high fever. I feel so bad that this diet is having this effect on her. This time it may have been the alfalfa sprouts but what was it the other 2 times??

[Frog]

Wishing you both better :)

[Dimond]

Salad bars are awful for the most part. They easily breed bacteria, bugs, etc. Not to mention it's not organic. There's only one place I'll eat the salad bar because the turnover for produce happens quite often. But even that place I'll only go 1-2x a year.

[Revvell]

You didn't ask for this yet, I'd suggest getting some acidolphilus liquid and keep it on hand. Mix it with unfiltered apple juice. That "should" take care of any bacteria which may be causing this.

(ps., if you can't find the liquid, tabs may work as well)

Revvell

[Addams]

I've had a similar problem with soaked organic wild rice. Soaked it for 3 days, changing water regularly, and served it in a salad. The non-rawbies did fine with it; I got sick as a dog for the next 48 hours, I could literally feel it bubbling and fermenting in my system - yuk! I felt afraid of raw grains for a long time after that.

Hope y'all feel better soon!

[smasty]

I once got food poisoning from strawberries that I didn't wash well--it wasn't fun. Unless you handle the produce yourself, you never know what you're getting. I was recently at a swanky hotel in seattle, one cool thing about the hotel was they had big bowls of apples everywhere, and the apples in Seattle are to die for. Anyway, they all still had the stickers on them, and I saw a hotel worker unloading apples into the bowls straight from the cardboard case--definitely not washed.

[Tirza]

We were discussing something like this in a thread yesterday. I suggested using Apple Cider Vinegar (the real stuff). I have read that people have warded off cases of food poisoning with it. One guy even got into the habit of taking some in a glass of water before they went out to eat in a public place. He was apparently the only or one of the only people who didn't get FP among hundreds who did at a big banquet.
Since then, whenever my stomach feels funny and I wonder if it is FP, I take some right away. Even if I don't think it is FP, I take it and it seems to calm a miserable stomach. I don't know about diarrhea once it gets started, but I would try it.
If you like the stuff, you could take it straight, but it might be easier to dilute it with water, warm or cold, and sip or shoot it straight down. You could add honey or Agave if you need to make it go down easier.
Good luck.
(I am wondering about sprouts too. I understand that it isn't even a case of unhygenic conditions in which they are grown, prepared, or served, but it's right on the seeds before they are even sprouted! Makes me nervous to do my own even.)

[berrymarymac]

There have been some cases or things I've read about people getting food poisoning from sprouts. It sounds like food poisoning to me. But in my family we all get sick at the same time with a virus!

[dreamrawalwz]

Then just don't eat those? Others are correct...salad bars aren't good as far as bacteria, pesticides, ect. go. I don't think that' "it's not safe" for your daughter to eat raw, just don't eat the things that are questionable. You can get food poisoning from almost any food that isn't organic. I'm sure with organic you could too, but not nearly as much. You can get food poisoning from cooked foods as well so which is safer? I'd say go for the diet with more nutrients (raw). I've heard that some sprouts and nuts can casue food poisioning depending on their age or if they're not um, sprouted enough. Heck, Dole had bagged lettuce recalled for salmonella (i think). Not to scare you, but I don't think you should worry that much about it. As I said, remove the offending foods if possible.

I hope you two feel better soon!

[Tirza]

For sure salad bars are a hazzard, unfortunately, because that would be such a convenient solution.

Organic seems to me to be a bigger risk for ecoli and whatever, since don't they use manure to fertilize rather than chemicals? Unless it is washed really well with soap, it concerns me.

[vgloveforlife]

I'm not sure if it's the sprouts anymore as we both can't remember if she had them. I know I did but I'm not sure if she did. She did have some fruit there though.
I'm thinking it might have been the rye bagels I made (with sprouted rye). I can't be certain what it was though and I really wish I knew. I think I will avoid sprouts from now on at least from my daughter.

mrandal-there is no way it's a virus. She has gotten this same sickness about one time each month consecutively with the same syptoms fever, sore stomach and vomiting. It all started when we went high raw. This has never happened before EVER. It has something to do with eating raw food.


You can get food poisoning from cooked foods as well so which is safer? I'd say go for the diet with more nutrients (raw).

We've never ever (that we were aware of) had food poisoning with cooked foods though. These bouts of spontenous sickness are all so new for my daughter. I am getting really concerned and I am beginning to think I might take her off of a high raw food diet. She is lying on the couch right now burning up. She can't eat and she looks so sick. Her face is pale and her eyes droopy. I can't stand to see her like this any more.

I will try the acidophilus and apple cider vinegar. Thanks!!

[dreamrawalwz]

I wouldn't blame the raw at all. Others tend to blame raw for not feeling well. It's not what you're ating, it's what you're NOT eating that makes the detox symptoms. Anyway, that was a tad off topic. You now have mentioned that she's high raw. What is she eating that ISN"T raw? Look at those for the culprits? I'd say give her fresh juice if you have a juicer and when she does eat keep it to watery fruits to hydrate her and cleanser her. Her body wants to get rid of the bug whatever it is so naturally her body will want to fast, but make sure she drinks water and doesn't become dehydrated or she'll feel worse. Do you know what she ate the last time?

[raeannasun]

I'm wondering if food combining could also be a reason? Have you both detoxed since going 100%? Colonics can help you through the transition time and may be something you should look into!

[Spectatrix]

Whether or not you decide to stay on a raw diet is entirely up to you, of course, but I'd suggest that you start keeping a food diary. Write down what foods you eat and if/when you get sick, it'll be easier to figure out the culprit.

[Tirza]

I am concerned about your daughter. As nice as it would be fix her up by tinkering with her diet, my advice is to take her to the doctor WHILE the fever is high. They can perhaps find the active "bug" then.

Don't even mention "raw diet" to him as that might instantly prejudice him and he might not look for the real cause then. Remember some news stories of people having their kids taken away because they didn't feed them meat and dairy!!! Don't risk running into a crusader like that!!!!

You should just mention that she has been eating a lot of "fresh" produce lately (it IS summer, after all!) and you were wondering if it could be some kind of contamination or from inadequately washed food. But that doesn't really explain it happening monthly. You need to pursue this.

Has she been to a public pool before these episodes? Think of anything that could have happened around about the times of the incidents. In Toronto, we hear daily news reports of which beaches are safe to swim in and out of - I don't even know - about 10 public beaches, a lot of the time only 2 are deemed safe because of unacceptably high ecoli levels. This is a big problem in the summer, and a likely culprit. In Montreal they have closed most or all of the public pools because of SEVERAL germs and viruses being present in hugely unsafe amounts - despite regular and closely-monitored chlorination. They have dangerous levels of ecoli, c-difficile, some "unnamed viruses", high fecal levels, etc. YUUUUUUK. These kids are showing the same symptoms you are describing. Chlorinated pools should not be for people like us anyway.

I am very concerned when a child has an unexplained high fever especially if it is recurring. I don't see how eating "high raw" could be the cause, unless she is eating dirty veggies regularly once a month. She MUST have eaten raw fruits and vegetables before your venture into "high raw" at least to some extent. How could just eating "more" cause this? Upset stomach, diarrhea can be caused by too much fruit or something. I had that myself as a child when I would pig out on the cherries or plums or something. Because you are trying to eat more raw, she may have been trying to fill up on something that is a little more than her body can handle at once. Does the "once a month" coincide with a shopping trip where you get a bunch of something and she eats too much of it?

But the fever is a real concern. Let them do a culture or blood work. High fevers, unattended can damage the brain!

[Veganforlife]

I'm wondering if food combining could also be a reason? Have you both detoxed since going 100%? Colonics can help you through the transition time and may be something you should look into!

I agree with this statement too. Also, are you eating fruit at the END of your raw meals? You should eat fruit first as it takes 20 minutes to digest - THEN eat your other foods...
In any case, I sure hope you (both) feel well soon...

[JennaBoBenna]

The three times I got food poisoning when I ate raw, I had eaten olive oil that had gone bad, nama shoyu, and Bragg's liquid aminos. Also, I was sick for the past couple of days because I had been drinking out of a water jug that I hadn't washed properly and refilled. I have a very sensitive stomach :o I used to get food poisoning allll the time when I ate cooked, one of my friends even nicked me "Barfy" :o I know how terrible FP is, and I hope you both feel better!

[juliebove]

Salad bars are notorious for food poisoning as are sprouts. The only time I know for sure that I got food poisoning it was from a salad at a restaurant. My parents and I were sick for days. My brother did not get sick. He was the only one of us who did not eat salad.

I would never eat sprouts that I didn't make myself. I keep mine very clean and well rinsed. I would also think twice before giving sprouts to a 3 year old. The younger the child is, the harder time they have fighting off stuff like food poisoning.

[berrymarymac]

mrandal-there is no way it's a virus. She has gotten this same sickness about one time each month consecutively with the same syptoms fever, sore stomach and vomiting. It all started when we went high raw. This has never happened before EVER. It has something to do with eating raw food.

Oh I know. Hmm, my posts are always confusing! I meant that when someone in my house gets sick...everyone gets sick almost immediately. Our immune systems are whacked! But it sounds like food poisoning.

But it is strange that she is having these symptoms. Could you list what she eats perhaps? Like everything, raw and cooked.

[vgloveforlife]

Hi you all,
Well she is getting better! She has been resting all day and I've been giving her a few herbal/natural things to help her get better faster. She is now up and playing a computer game. Her temp has gone down but is still a little high (99.0). My temp on the other hand is very very low at (95.0).

She is 5 yrs old, 6 in October. She is not 3 yrs old just so you know.

Doubleg-thanks for your thought out post. Since she is better I won't be bringing her to the hospital but I think if it happens again I will. We have not been swimming as the weather here is getting colder and colder.
I am very concerned for her and I have been trying my hardest to figure out what could be causing this to happen once a month. We do eat all organic-I wonder if they are dirtier?
Possible causes, for this food poisoining, I have thought of are:

Alfalfa sprouts (if she did have them-we don't remember)
Rye bagels-sprouted rye
Contamination from my dogs raw meat to other food (I am always so careful to wash good after perparing it but I could of missed something)

Jenna: Reading your post reminded me that I think we may have eaten old/rancid olive oil. Well maybe that is a possibility too.

Mrandal: Yesterday she ate: Alissa's Carrot cake, oats with almond/hemp milk, apple, rye bagel with tofu cream cheese (homemade) tomatoes and onions and lettuce, hummus sandwich, carrot and nut mix
Out to eat she ate barbeque tofu with fruit salad, peas and alfalfa sprouts?

[berrymarymac]

Mrandal: Yesterday she ate: Alissa's Carrot cake, oats with almond/hemp milk, apple, rye bagel with tofu cream cheese (homemade) tomatoes and onions and lettuce, hummus sandwich, carrot and nut mix
Out to eat she ate barbeque tofu with fruit salad, peas and alfalfa sprouts?

So glad she's better!!! It's not too common but contaminated alfalfa sprouts can cause Salmonella. And I don't see anything out of the ordinary in her food. But definately it was food poisoning. Cut out alfalfa sprouts for a while, to see if that could be it. And throw the ones you have, if you have any. Maybe there is something in your fridge that is contaminating your food? Just trying to think of ways stuff can be infected, that's all.

Oh yeah, my mom informed me about tofu and contamination with it! Don't know if you have a problem with this but I found something from a Whole Foods site I found:

"Cook it Right
Just like animal protein foods, tofu is susceptible to bacterial contamination and is considered "potentially hazardous" by the FDA. Therefore all tofu, with the exception of asceptic packaged products should be cooked properly. Typically allow 10–30 minutes total cooking time, depending on the recipe."

[Tirza]

vgloveforlife, I'm so glad that she is feeling better, and very glad that you will take her in to see about it if it happens again.

Wow mrandal, I used to eat tofu raw (well, you know what I mean, cold out of the package!) !

[Revvell]

with tofu cream cheese (homemade) tomatoes and onions and lettuce, hummus sandwich, carrot and nut mix
Out to eat she ate barbeque tofu with fruit salad, peas and alfalfa sprouts?

I have gotten majorly ill from tofu.

[luckitri]

Well it would be interesting to have some tests done and find out the real culprit. It could be anything. I've had alot of food poison also and it is frightening so I can imagine how it is for a child - sometimes kids have stronger taste sense and she might have an idea. Glad to hear that you are both better. I will say that I haven't had the food poison on raw but I am not very trusting. I take alot of time to inspect food that I buy and I like the bulk price but would never buy anything like tofu bulk. Packaging protects us from illnesses of other customers but the place that it was packaged at may well be full of sick people working for low wages with no medical insurance coughing up some resistant TB....as you can see I do get nervous about my food sources and cleanliness. Alfalfa sprouts are the most obvious possibility as they did have that salmonella in the actual seeds back in the late '80s -early '90s. I have noticed over the years that vegetarian people and places often seem to be less cautious in the cleanliness contamination department as if being vegetarian makes them immune to all that. I don't eat anything where the skin has been broken before I got it - from strawberries and apples to watermelon and eggplant - I just won't do it. If you do find out what a cause is please post - you may save someone else the problem.

[Lay-Lay]

so HAPPY ya'll are feeling better.

[vgloveforlife]

Ok so here's the list we (especially her) are going to avoid so this will never happen again.

Olive oil (I will make sure it's not rancid or expired)
Tofu not cooked
Dehydrated foods
Sprouts
Heavy nut meal (it could of been the carrot cake-it had so many walnuts)

Which nuts are the most likely to casuse food poisoning anyway?

I will also give her olive leaf extract, garlic etc. on a regular basis just to boost her immune system and kill off any bacteria present.

Just one more question, how many hours after you ate the food does food poisoning hit?

[Revvell]

Just one more question, how many hours after you ate the food does food poisoning hit?

I've had it happen with fungus (mushrooms) w/in two hours. Usually it's 4-6.

[Conscious Midwife]

Gastroenteritis can be viral....

Whenever anyone in my home is sick I go around the entire house disinefecting door knobs , light switches, linen dishes etc...


A number of things could be the cause especially with the monthly reoccurence.

Several years ago my son would have diarhea and fever about once every few weeks. It was mild and manageable so I assumed it to be the effects of teething. Well the real culprit was rotovirus other toddlers in his daycare were terribly ill and going home with fevers daily for about two months. My breastfed son had a pretty strong immune system so his case never seemed severe. Finally all children in the room were instructed to go to their pediatrician for testing and the room was "decontaminated". The amazing thing is this was a very clean faciltiy, no shared bedding, bleach between changes and gloves when changing etc...

Then there is the raw meat in the house to be concerened about. If you have the nozzle on your water faucet checked you may find that it is full of gunk. Also remeber whe folks wash they usually use soiled hands to turn on water and then the now clean hands turn it off. Do you all sleep with your dogs? Do they kiss you on the face?

Well the important thing now is that she is better a sick little one is always scary and stressful :)

[vgloveforlife]

LifeAgift- OMG I think you are onto something there about the rotavirus. I really didn't know much about it until now. I just researched it some more and I think that her sickness might have been that after all. Here I am so confident it's not a virus and telling everyone here so...I feel kind of silly now.


The time period from initial infection to symptoms (incubation period) for rotavirus disease is around 2 days. Symptoms of the disease include fever, vomiting, and watery diarrhea. Abdominal pain may also occur, and infected children may have profuse watery diarrhea up to several times per day. Symptoms generally persist for three to nine days. Immunity from repeated infection is incomplete after a rotavirus infection, but repeated infections tend to be less severe than the original infection.

Rotavirus infection can be associated with severe dehydration in infants and children. Severe dehydration can lead to death in rare cases, so it is important to recognize and treat this complication of rotavirus infection. In addition to the symptoms of rotavirus infection discussed above, parents should be aware of the symptoms of dehydration that can occur with rotavirus infection or with other serious conditions.

http://www.medicinenet.com/rotavirus/article.htm

It's almost a relief in a way because I really wanted to stick with raw and this was discouraging me so much.

Anyway my daughter started this summer program about 3 months ago (when the sicknesses started to happen). She would go one time a week although we did skip a few weeks here and there. She actually just went 5 days before she got really sick.
She did have loose watery stools a few days ago but not severe diaherra. She had the vomiting and fever and upset stomach. All the sypmtoms fit. As for my symptoms, I was feeling very thirsty and had diaherra and an upset stomach.

Thank god that program is over and done with for the Summer. I can't be 100% sure that it is the rotavirus but it does seem to fit.

Yay, I have faith in raw again!

Thank you lifeagift for coming along and mentioning that otherwise I probably would of never thought of it since I was so sure it was food poisoning.

[vgloveforlife]

Well now I'm off to splurge in all the foods I was going to avoid LOL J/K

[exurb]

salmonella from raw almonds can be a risk, more so when they're not as fresh, and I am told when they sit at room temperature sealed up in plastic bags. this is why we now have difficulty getting unpasteurized almonds, after a few cases people are covering their butts and pasteurizing.

The other food safety thing that many people don't do, is when eating fruits such as canteloupes, pineapples, etc. where you cut off the skin, many people don't adequately wash/sterilize the outside first before cutting into it. Things like the netted skin of canteloupe can be a haven for many microorganisms, and just think that many field workers are not living in considerate conditions with washrooms where they can wash their hands, etc.. When you take a knife and cut from the outside in, you can take that bacteria from the outside and spread it across the part that you eat.

In addition to washing this type of fruit well on the outside, you can also give the peeled and cut parts an extra rinse.

doubleg, in organics, it is required to compost all manures beyond a certain temperature for a certain length of time, and you are required to measure the temperature in the compost pit (versus conventional where you can spread fresh uncomposted shite whenever you want, unregulated). There are also very strict regulations in organics for when you can spread it (ie far in advance of when you're growing the stuff), and you can't spread it recently on things like lettuces, etc. where you eat the food that comes into contact with the soil. Also, organic cows are said to not make the bad e.coli 0157, that is made mainly in feedlots where cows are fed grains and a diet that is not their natural diet, then they make that deadly e. coli as the conditions are changed in their stomach and digestive system. I really wouldn't worry about what you're talking about in organics, though I am still a firm believer in good washing of produce. I also like using a very plain basic pure soap to wash some things.

[vgloveforlife]

We did eat raw almonds in the almond milk I made. I was actually a little skeptical about the almonds because they looked different.

[Tirza]

Thanks, exurb for the info on organics and use of manure. It made me wonder though-I guess this would be the rules for an "organic farm". What about smaller places or your local farmer's markets, your neighbour's garden or even your own? I have also heard that organic is very unregulated, or maybe that is just in Canada. I know that there are specific guidelines, but who inspects them to see that they are carried through?

I also remember hearing on the news a few times about people who got pretty sick from eating unwashed cantaloupe. This is the season, so I appreciate the reminder to wash the skin with soap before I cut into it.

[vgloveforlife]

Hey all-

My daughter got a little bit sick again but no vomiting this time. She had a sore stomach and felt the urge to throw up. She also had loose bm. No fever this time but she is lying down on the couch again not feeling well.
I think it's weird because it is the 23rd of the month and she got sick last month around the 23rd. This is really weirding me out. I can't figure out what we do differently at the end of each month. I'm beginning to think that it never was the rotavirus but I'm just not sure too. She hasn't gone to the summer program for a whole month now. I'm not sure what to think......all I know is if she starts to vomit again like before I am going to take her off of a raw food diet because all of this started when we went high raw. :(

[romanticsnet]

I got food poisining from Costco Raw almonds. there was a case of salmonella with them. I didn't figure itn out until about the 4th time after eating them... and the nausea and vomiting I kept getting.

[dreamrawalwz]

Hey all-

My daughter got a little bit sick again but no vomiting this time. She had a sore stomach and felt the urge to throw up. She also had loose bm. No fever this time but she is lying down on the couch again not feeling well.
I think it's weird because it is the 23rd of the month and she got sick last month around the 23rd. This is really weirding me out. I can't figure out what we do differently at the end of each month. I'm beginning to think that it never was the rotavirus but I'm just not sure too. She hasn't gone to the summer program for a whole month now. I'm not sure what to think......all I know is if she starts to vomit again like before I am going to take her off of a raw food diet because all of this started when we went high raw. :(

Could it be rounds of detox? I still don't think you can blame the raw diet. Is she eating organic? What about food combining or the cooked food she's eating? Maybe try 100% raw for a little bit and see what happens. I know she's young, but what about hormones? In anyone at any age they can fluctuate and can cause some ill feelings...

[vgloveforlife]

Dreamraw-
This is all making me so sad. I am currently looking into two major illnesses that she may have according to her symptoms. She will be going to the doctor on Monday to check for these and as soon as I know I will inform you and everyone if she does indeed have them.

Here's what I know, that when we started high raw she started to get sicker in many different ways. As I wrote in another thread she also became more energetic but, you know I spoke too soon on that one because it seems like every day is sooo different.
When she was a cooked vegan she was consistenly healthy with no severe sicknesses like this occurring monthly. She would get an occassional cold but that was about it.
I don't know if it is the fact that she eats raw and some cooked together. Maybe the cooked is bothering her since she is more pure now. I have wondered if I put her on 100% raw if things would be better....but then I wonder if I am crazy for thinking this and I should just take her off of raw alltoghether. I wonder if there is something that we eat more of now that is bothering her such as nuts or fruit...?? Is she allergic to any food??? Food Posioning? Does she have a serious illness? I have lots of questions that I am looking into right now. At the doctors I hope I will get some answers.

Thanks for everyone's concern and support about this ongoing problem.

[rawnora]

Wild animals don't get sick from eating what is natural for them, but if you give them "civilized" food or food that is inappropriate for their species, they will vomit, get fevers and generally get just as sick as your daughter. Young and previously unabused bodies retain all the natural vitality that empowers them to reject foods and other substances that do not belong inside them. When your daughter gets sick, it's a sign that her body is now able to quickly expel that which would otherwise harm it (certain 'foods', not bacteria or 'viruses'). If this never happened before when she was eating 'normal' food, it's because her body was learning to adapt to that way of eating and had protected itself such that rejecting the "food" was not necessary. Just as your hand becomes calloused to protect itself if you work in your garden without gloves, a person's digestive membranes become thickened and coated so as to ensure that harmful substances are not readily absorbed into the bloodstream. When you stop putting harmful substances in, the body can let go of its protection. In young people, this generally happens much more quickly than in adults, understandably. After it does that, the person is more likely to feel sick after dietary transgressions. That's why after a period of eating raw food, people often feel ill after eating cooked food. Some people even find that they suddenly can't tolerate foods that have become staples in their diet and that never gave them problems before. It is a sign of healing, not deterioration. It is very unhealthy and even dangerous to assume otherwise because nothing sends people back to their old cooked ways quicker than thinking raw foods cause sickness and degeneration.

Among the foods you listed, the ones most likely to be causing the problems are grains (sprouted or not), preservatives (almost always used in salad bars), oils, sprouts and soy products. If you're eating these, there are likely others in your diet that will cause problems too. Tell your daughter to let you know if she has the slightest symptom -- tummy ache, loose bowel, feeling tired or cranky, etc. Don't wait until it's a full blown vomiting episode before reviewing what she's eaten in the last 24 hours for appropropriateness. By 'appropriateness' I mean nothing except fresh, unprocessed, whole, raw, fruits, green leafy vegetables, nuts and seeds. Identify the foods that don't belong on those categories and experiment with omitting them one at a time to see which ones are causing the problems. It may be necessary or desirable for both you and her to continue to indulge in some of these bridge or borderline foods, or even some cooked foods, but you should evaluate which ones make you or her feel bad and omit those completely. Naturally if you can stick to the optimal categories, you'll be much better off.

There is much to learn and unlearn when a person goes raw. Making assumptions based on the medical way of approaching sickness has been the downfall of many an aspiring raw fooder. A whole shift in thinking has to take place in order for a person to find long-term optimal health.

I am currently offering an affordable way for people to get the on-going support and guidance they need as they transition to an optimal diet. I heartily recommend you seek out the information that will allow you to give your full trust to nature. Feel free to contact me through my website or at nmlenz@speakeasy.net.

Best of luck,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[dreamrawalwz]

Rawnora is correct. Her body is becoming cleaner and more sensitive. Doesn't expect those foreign foods to enter it so when she does consume cooked her body will react as if it's a poison...because it is.

I suggest that when you take her to the doctor (not sure it's necessary, but i understand your concern and precautions) I would NOT mention the raw diet or "high" raw if I were you. If he/she prescribes antibiotics or other meds you don't HAVE to fill them. Whatever your daughter has even if it is an illness it needs to work its way out and not become suppressed with medication to pop up later.

What cooked items IS she consuming exactly?

Could be an allergic reaction? Try to log her food intake and see waht happens immediately after and a few hours. I think the best way to do that is mono eating for a few days at each meal to see the culprit. That's only if she's not consuming the foods you may think are causing her discomfort and still reacting.

[Queen Shelley]

Wow! Thank you Nora for your website! Amazing, it's almost 12 and I've been reading for a long time. So, Mom I sincerely hope your baby is better by now and you'll get some time to read Nora's site and more. It's so scary when your baby is sick. Much love.

[vgloveforlife]

Thanks for the input everyone. She is feeling better now. I just moved fast on this one. As soon as I heard she felt like throwing up I gave her some olive leaf before bed and she didn't throw up that night. The previous times we didn't move so fast and she would wake up every time at midnight throwing up. I really really did not want another throwing up session. I feel so bad for her.

Rawnora-I will try what you suggested and eliminate those foods from her diet. I will then add them in slowly and see what happens. I do think it could possibly be the sprouts or dehydrated foods.

Btw-I love your website...very informative!

The day before she got sick she had
Flax crackers with macademia cheese (not raw-roasted macedamias) and salsa (not raw)
Smoothie with peaches, lemon, figs and kale
Kale salad with collards, peppers, onions, olives, cauliflower, pumpkin seeds, olive oil and balsamic vinegar.
Amy's alphabet soup (not raw)
Watermelon.

The next day she started feeling sick around noon soon after our morning smoothie (peaches, hemp powder, orange, kale and collards)

Dreamraw, she has a few foods that aren't raw, but that I think are healthy, such as whole wheat spaghetti, tofu, sprouted bread and beans.

She is going to the doctors today and I hope I will find some answers.

[rawnora]

I'm glad you found my comments helpful.

I would not expect help from the doctors. What they tell you will most likely be in stark conflict with the truth. For all their good intentions and arduous training, they are just not taught about health, disease causality and removal of cause. They know about suppressing symptoms, which is very damaging to health. I understand it is scary when your child is involved but there are ways to give yourself the confidence to trust nature even when you're a parent. Have you read Herbert Shelton's "The Hygienic Care of Children"? It's available free on line at www.soilandhealth.org, which is a huge website containing copyright-unprotected works of some great authors. If you do go to the doctor, I heartily agree with dreamrawwlz's recommendation to keep quiet about your unconventional diet.

From the list you provided, I see your daughter is eating some very harmful 'foods'. This is most certainly the origin of the problem. Vinegar (all kinds), for example, is poison and suspends digestion of any food it accompanies into the stomach. Food that cannot be digested becomes toxic waste. Cooked nuts are also very problematic because the deranged proteins are not digestible; nut cheeses are also fermented which deranges the carbohydrates as well. If a substance is so toxic that the body can't tolerate sending it out via the normal (primary) channels of elimination, vomiting is the result. Vomiting is the mechanism that the body reserves for especially harmful substances. Your daughter's body knows that if it allows these substances to pass through the stomach and into the small intestine, they will be absorbed into the bloodstream where they will cause damage to tissues and vital organs. The only defense her body has against the poisons is to get rid of them while they're in the stomach. It very harmful to stop vomiting with remedies when it is likely to occur without them. You're essentially asking the body to retain a poison which it, in its unfathomable wisdom, has seen fit to discard. Vomiting is very unpleasant but this has to be so because if it was fun we wouldn't mind poisoning ourselves.

Green smoothies are not all they're cracked up to be, imo, and are not tolerated well by children if they are made with dense greens like kale and collards. I can almost guarantee that if you make smoothies with fruit only, your daughter will not feel nauseous afterward, although you may need to make sure they are consumed on an empty stomach. Later you can try using celery, iceberg or romaine lettuce if you want her to eat greens. If she likes only fruit, however, that is important information coming from her body that should not be disregarded.

Best of luck to you.

Warm regards,
Nora

[dreamrawalwz]

Good luck. I understand what you're saying that the cooked food she's eating is "healthy" but I don't think any cooked food is "healthy." In a SAD world those are, but since she's predominantly cooked her body is reacting to those foods as poison because they are. You (she) needs to listen to her body. What she is eating is NOT agreeing with her. Vinegar is harmful, so are cooked nuts, as well as soy/tofu products for some. What may be "healthy" to one may be VERY harmful to others such as allergic reactions.

[vgloveforlife]

Rawnora and Dreamraw-Do you mean even apple cider vinegar is harmful too?

My sister suspected the vinegar was bothering her too. I will stop that right away although she loves it.

We never eat cooked nuts only the macedamia because I can't find raw around here. We will avoid them.

Raw must definitly make the body more sensitive because when we were cooked we could eat about anything with no problems.

You're right about the greens- I was probably overdoing it on collards and kale in her smoothie and in salads. She does crave fruit a lot so I will give her more of that and less tough greens like kale.

We did do a blood test at the doctors. They tested for Anemia (I'm not sure why-she had no symptoms), diabetes and thyroid. Everything came out PERFECT I am happy to say! She does not have diabetes, her thyroid is perfect and so is her blood count.

Rawnora-I know what you mean about doctors not being helpful. I always avoid doctors but I just wanted to do a blood test to make sure things were okay. I was really getting concerned that she had diabetes 1.
I really hope these vomiting episdoes are only food related. I am currently keeping a food log of everything that goes into her body so I can pinpoint the culprit if it happens again.

Thanks so much for the comments-I really appreciate them!!

[rawnora]

Hi Vgloveforlife,
Yes, all kinds of vinegar are harmful. I have a close friend whose family (sister, parents) are mostly raw and when his sister's daughter became ill even when on a very healthy diet, the inclusion of vinegar in her diet was determined to be the main cause. The fact that your daughter loves it makes me suspect that she eats a lot of it, which is extremely problematic. If so, she will likely give you grief about getting rid of it but you'll have to hold your ground. The cause of all disease is waste accumulation, and nothing causes more waste in the body than eating foods that are not digestible (which is what vinegar does to food).

I'm not surprised the blood test results were stellar. It is very important, imo, that you use this information to bolster your confidence in what you're doing. Whenever doubts enter your mind, think about those test results, along with all the other information you've gathered about how health is created, and how this lies in direct conflict with what is taught by the 'health profession'.

Diabetes is a degenerative condition that requires decades of self-abuse in most cases. It does appear in children but only in those who are fed the wrong foods. If you keep doing what you're doing -- following nature (listening to your daughter's preferences primarily), identifying and omitting problematic 'foods' and following other healthful practices, your daughter will never be afflicted with diabetes or any other degenerative illness.

You are on the right track! Congrats and keep up the good work.

Warm wishes,
Nora

[sailaway]

HI Vgloveforlife
I had a similar experience with my son, he was 6. For months he would be sick for one day maybe two days every month, sometimes he would vomit sometimes not. Usually he would vomit once or twice and that would be it. He was the only one in the house who did this although there were occasions when some one else didn't "feel" well also. I started to chart the times and days and I noticed that while it had been about the same time each month in the begining it started to be every 3 weeks then every 2 weeks. Usually it happened in the evening. He also started with low grade fevers and then progressed to high fevers 104.8. I DID take him to the Drs. several times and they said probably the flu or food posioning. They also did lab to see if his white count was high (possible appedix). He would have a high white count and then when it was checked again several hours later it would be lower. Again probably virus/flu/food posioning. What finally happened was we were going out on our boat for an extended period (several weeks) and Kevin had one of his "attacks"with a fever of 105.2. It was a Sunday about 4pm I took him to the ER his white count went high then dropped to normal 8 hours later. They were going to send him home but asked if I wanted to talk to a surgeon as we would be away from shore for so long. The surgeon check my son who was feeling better and thought we would be ok then said wait lets try something he asked my son to hop on one foot. My son picked up his foot to try then put it down and said I can't, The Dr asked him to jump on both feet again my son started to comply but stopped and said I can't . We tried repeatedly to get him to hop offering candy etc. Finally the Surgeon said I think it is his appendix, because the body/brain will not let a person jump or hop even if you want to if the appendix is involved. If it was my son I would remove it. Because we were going to be gone for so long we decided to have the surgery and sure enought it was his appendix. The Dr said there are those who do not show the standard symptoms or the symptoms come and go which is even more dangerous because if it ruptures the family think everything is ok and then things get even worse with possible death. So next time your daughter feels sick try to get her to hop on one foot. Take her to the Drs and have labs drawn and keep a record of everytime she has ANY symptoms not matter how small.
Good Luck

PS My son is now 10 and has never had another episode. In fact he has not been sick a single day since!