B-12 deficiency

[dreamrawalwz]

I got my blood test results back. I have B-12 deficiency right now. I also have high levels of potassium, sodium, chloride, and CO2. I fasted and didn't have salt for a few days prior so I don't know why the sodium would be high. What foods are high in B-12? I'd REALLY rather not do suppliments, but at this point I don't know I have a choice. From my HFS I used to get liquid vitamins "vegetarian" formula (should call it vegan haha). Anyway, it isn't raw, but it does have just strong potent juice of fruits. When I was eating cooked and took it my B-12 levels were fine, even high some times. Should I just do this even if it isn't raw? I have this "I have to be 100% or I fail" attitude so I feel guilty if I take it....ahhh i'm so confused!! I'll just stop writing now.

[dreamrawalwz]

anyone know what foods will help? From waht I understand B-12 may not come from food, but from the soil and since our soil is so depleted of nutrients we won't get much. I've also heard that hte B-12 found in fruits and veggies is (forgot what it's called) a look-alike or something, but really isn't B-12?

[Rawkinlocs]

Girl, now you know we've had a gazillion discussions on b-12 here LOL!

Most say there ARE no foods to get it from unless you do animal products...at one time it was believed that sea veggies did the trick, but some say that's not even true...so you've got your work cut out for ya if you're trying to find people to give you the "okay" to do foods for b-12 unless you are willing to trust raw food, period and not be concerned with the findings of your tests. But from the many previous discussions and threads here and abroad on the issue...the overall consensus seems to be that if you have a deficiency or if you're concerned about it, the best thing to do is get a supplement.

There is a great, HUGE debate on it. I suggest just searching out the old b-12 threads and you'll see that you are only gonna get varying opinions on this.

[Rawkinlocs]

Here...these should get you started:

General b12 stuff
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14192&highlight=b-12

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15833&highlight=b-12

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13861&highlight=b-12

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3261

Alissa's submissions on b12
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3244

b12 from Nutrex Spirulina?
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16474&highlight=b-12

b12 from Nori?
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16148&highlight=b-12

[dreamrawalwz]

Yea, thanks? I guess i know there's a debate, but I'm one that has people tell me what to do? I need to stop doing that! I'm just so confused. I would trust raw foods, but the B-12 is getting worse for me and I'm constantly tired 24/7, if not exhausted. I guess I just need to figure this out myself :( I hate doing that haha. I just want this stuff to go away now!!!! :eek:

[Rawkinlocs]

But that's the thing...you may feel you need someone to tell you specifically what to do, but there are many voices saying many things when it comes to this issue.

Try the supplement and see if it improves your situation and the way you feel.

[Grible4]

So eat some soil!! I do, I take Primal Defense. It is the best. It is helping my intestines heal from the very poor state they were in and they are digesting my food sooooo much better!! Primal Defense is Homeostatic Soil Organisms (HSO's) grown in fermented whole foods, and comes in vegetarian caplets. It is also resistant to your stomach acids and bile, so it doesn't die before reaching your intestines. In the book I'm reading about it, it says that the bacteria will start producing vitames like the B's for you, and you will superbly absorb all the nutrients from your food. And I must say, after living all my life being ill from the foods I eat (allergies) and not absorbing nutrients, that these HSO's are the most awsome thing I ever found. I would recomend not useing them in place of other treatments, but with whatever else you need. Here is a piece I found written by Gina Shaw, MD at the Living & Raw Foods website, you can find the whole thing here:
http://www.rawfoods.com/articles/b12issue.html

"Many people say that the only foods which contain vitamin B12 are animal-derived foods. This also is untrue. No foods naturally contain vitamin B12 - neither animal or plant foods. Vitamin B12 is a microbe - a bacteria - it is produced by microorganisms. Vitamin B12 is the only vitamin that contains a trace element - cobalt - which gives this vitamin its chemical name - cobalamin - which is at the centre of its molecular structure. Humans and all vertebrates require cobalt, although it is assimilated only in the form of vitamin B12.
B12 synthesis is known to occur naturally in the human small intestine (in the ileum), which is the primary site of B12 absorption. As long as gut bacteria have cobalt and certain other nutrients, they produce vitamin B12. Dr Michael Klaper argues that vitamin B12 is present in the mouth as well and intestines. Furthermore, Dr Virginia Vetrano states that active Vitamin B12 coenzymes are found in bacteria in the mouth, around the teeth, in the nasopharynx, around the tonsils and in the tonsilar crypts, in the folds at the base of the tongue, and in the upper bronchial tree. Absorption of the natural B12 coenzymes can take place in the mouth, throat, oesophagus, bronchial tubes and even in the upper small intestines, as well as all along the intestinal tract. This does not involve the complex enzyme mechanism for absorption (Intrinsic Factor) in the small intestine as required by cyanocobalamin. The coenzymes are absorbed by diffusion from mucous membranes (11). "

So, do what you need to in order to take care of your B issues, but to prepare for the future, I would eat some soil! Here the website where you can find more about Primal Defense:
http://www.gardenoflifeusa.com/detail_primal_defense.shtml

Sorry, I looked all over for a list of foods with B in them, I know I've seen lists before, but if I find one, I will post it!

LIVE LIFE RAW!!!!

[cornvalley]

I got my blood test results back. I have B-12 deficiency right now. I also have high levels of potassium, sodium, chloride, and CO2. I fasted and didn't have salt for a few days prior so I don't know why the sodium would be high. What foods are high in B-12? I'd REALLY rather not do suppliments, but at this point I don't know I have a choice. From my HFS I used to get liquid vitamins "vegetarian" formula (should call it vegan haha). Anyway, it isn't raw, but it does have just strong potent juice of fruits. When I was eating cooked and took it my B-12 levels were fine, even high some times. Should I just do this even if it isn't raw? I have this "I have to be 100% or I fail" attitude so I feel guilty if I take it....ahhh i'm so confused!! I'll just stop writing now.


Well, I'll tell you what to do.
Take a subligual B-12 supplement everyday starting ASAP.
B-12 is not something you want to be deficient in.
Idealism is fine when everything is working but you will kick yourself in the ass if you don't take care of this.
Just some fatherly advice ;)

[pomegranatebliss]

I supplement B complex, but I was doing that before going high-raw.

I know I don't get nearly enough from my raw diet. I know some people here hate the idea of counting on SparkPeople, Fitday, etc., but I have been doing it for the past two and a half months while getting used to what a balanced raw diet looks like. There are some days when the B-12 doesn't even register with a number and just has a little plus sign on it, that's how little I would get from my diet alone.

You already know you have a deficiency. It's past the debate stage of whether raw causes a B-12 problem. I would say it's best to address the deficiency in the purest way you can. A non-raw supplement is not the same as a SAD lifestyle. I've been reading your posts about how badly you feel physically - you deserve to feel better! :)

[firefaery]

take a supplement-but make sure it's cyanocobalamin. There are others on the market, but this is the only one usable and assimilated by humans.

[dreamrawalwz]

Thanks everyone.

Firefaery is that a name brand or what should be IN the suppliment?

Grible4 - I'll definitely take a look at that. I had intestinal surgery when I was REALLY young so I don't absorb many nutrients hence b12 deficiency. I also deal with a number of food sensativities and allergies that seem to be getting worse. Have those gone away or at least deminished for you?

[firefaery]

It's the form of B-12 you want.

[luckitri]

I have read that the B vitamins don't absorb well unless taken in conjunction with the other B's. In other words, isolating a specific B and taking just that one won't help you. I don't know if this is also true of the B12. The writing was geared towards B supplements to help with stress. That Red Star yeast has the B12. Last I read they never could decide if yeast was a plant or animal but from what I have read B12 deficiency is very very dangerous. Like cornvalley I would prefer to be a survivalist rather than a purist.

[RawSoccerDude]

Hi Dreamrawalwz. Here's a link to a B-12 posted on another forum today as well.. you might find it interesting.. peace be with you!

http://www.roaringlionpublishing.com/community/viewtopic.php?id=1106

best,
michael george

[Sunshine9]

Are you looking to be 100% raw, or are you seeking optimal vibrant radiant health?

Sometimes they go together, and sometimes not. If it were me, I would take the supplement!! The type of b-12 found in vegan foods is analog and not the kind we need to maintain healthy levels. I take the PERQUE brand and I really like it. I'm not familiar with the one you are looking at, so why don't you do some research and find the one that best suits your needs.

I understand the varying opinions, but you are YOUNG and there just isn't enough information supporting not supplementing to risk nerve damage among other things..

[vgloveforlife]

I concur with those who said to go get a supplement now.
I take Buried Treasure B-complex. http://www.vitacost.com/BuriedTreasureBComplexVitamins

Just curious, how long have you been vegan and raw?

[PDMagnusen]

I argee with Sunshine 9's comment completely..."Are you looking to be 100% raw, or are you seeking optimal vibrant radiant health?"

Taking a B12 supplement is a very personal decision and some people choose to take one and some don't. I personally choose to take one. I've seen people become deficient and its not something to play around with. B12 deficiency is not something that just affects those on raw and vegan diets.

[Naiad]

I take the E3 Live liquid supplement (love it!) and according to the CD I got at Whole Foods awhile ago, it has the B-Complex spectrum. They did interviews with Dr. Clement from Hippocrates and Gabriel Cousens on the CD (the ones who mentioned the B-complex in the E3,) so, it's definately geared toward people focusing on living foods. The stuff is MOST definately uncooked! :D

[dreamrawalwz]

I concur with those who said to go get a supplement now.
I take Buried Treasure B-complex. http://www.vitacost.com/BuriedTreasureBComplexVitamins

Just curious, how long have you been vegan and raw?

Raw off and on for 3 years, but recently it's been just about 6 months 100%. I was born with a hereditary B12 and folate anemia from my dad so I don't think it's mostly a food situation, it's a personal thing I think.

[PDMagnusen]

I didn't know that E3 Live had B-12. If it contains adequate amounts that may be a good alternative for you :)

[lissomllama]

In the end, it's your body, your choice but consider this: You don't know that you are deficient. I believe the doctor you went to was an advocate of cooked, right? Well so is the most of the country, so the numbers that your tests stack up against are based on cooked eaters, why trust that? Your levels of everything should be different than those of cooked eaters because you're RAW!

So many people here are so convinced they have a deficiency that they get one! When you constantly worry and 'believe' that you may or do have a problem or an illness, you'll most likely get it. Trust your body, trust raw and trust your will. Tell yourself that you have EVERYTHING you need in abundance, and you most likely will. Keep it always in the positive. Why do you feel that raw isn't giving you what you need? Why let non-raw doctors tell you that you're deficient when they most likely are confused and want the pharmaceutical companies to give you something or keep you coming back to have more tests done and whatnot. Most modern day doctors are severely misinformed and their tests are usually unbalanced. I wouldn't trust the results. If you absolutely must take a suppliment then I reccomend getting good healthy soil from the earth with your food and that is all. If something is not raw I don't think it should go in your body at all. If it doesn't come directly from our earth and from the ground, we weren't meant to eat or drink it. I think we all need to trust our bodies to heal and our food to give us what we need instead of constantly thinking we have deficiencies. It is what you make it, to some degree.

Whatever you do, feel better. Think positive and believe in perfect health, let those thoughts and energies radiate throughout you and out through you and it will come back to you.

[Naiad]

I didn't know that E3 Live had B-12. If it contains adequate amounts that may be a good alternative for you :)

My mom and I were listening to the cd in the car and she says, "Well, I don't have to worry about pill supplement then, right?"

I said "Who knew? I'm glad we took the cd from the E3 lady."

The cd is pretty good btw, it reminded me alot of raw vegan radio's interviews, but, I could listen to Dr. Brian Clement 24-7 :p

[dreamrawalwz]

In the end, it's your body, your choice but consider this: You don't know that you are deficient. I believe the doctor you went to was an advocate of cooked, right? Well so is the most of the country, so the numbers that your tests stack up against are based on cooked eaters, why trust that? Your levels of everything should be different than those of cooked eaters because you're RAW!

So many people here are so convinced they have a deficiency that they get one! When you constantly worry and 'believe' that you may or do have a problem or an illness, you'll most likely get it. Trust your body, trust raw and trust your will. Tell yourself that you have EVERYTHING you need in abundance, and you most likely will. Keep it always in the positive. Why do you feel that raw isn't giving you what you need? Why let non-raw doctors tell you that you're deficient when they most likely are confused and want the pharmaceutical companies to give you something or keep you coming back to have more tests done and whatnot. Most modern day doctors are severely misinformed and their tests are usually unbalanced. I wouldn't trust the results. If you absolutely must take a suppliment then I reccomend getting good healthy soil from the earth with your food and that is all. If something is not raw I don't think it should go in your body at all. If it doesn't come directly from our earth and from the ground, we weren't meant to eat or drink it. I think we all need to trust our bodies to heal and our food to give us what we need instead of constantly thinking we have deficiencies. It is what you make it, to some degree.

Whatever you do, feel better. Think positive and believe in perfect health, let those thoughts and energies radiate throughout you and out through you and it will come back to you.

I believe you are correct and have thought this myself. I understand the results are based against a cooked diet. Here are my results though:

methylmalonic acid - normal range 88-243 - my result was 6053
WAYYY above what it should be. The more acid the less b-12 I have.

I'm constantly tired and exhausted, depressed, ect. I was in denial? taht I had a B-12 problem, that raw would heal the anemia I had previously (never this bad). You said that if you're worried about said disease that you'll most likely develope it....I do'nt think that's the case.

B-12 from waht I understand is NOT in raw foods, but they are organisms and bacteria in the soil, but since the soil is so depleated you won't get much if any at all. Another site I read said that a HEALTHY gut will produce the B-12 that we need. I have 50% of my gut removed so...i don't have a "healthy" gut. Anyway, I'm going to try Primal Defense and green juice (pills) and see waht happens.

Something to add - I've read that B-12 is mostly absorbed in the illium section of your small intestines...guess which section got completely removed? Fun stuff...(being sarcastic!)

[juliebove]

You may need to go to the Dr. for shots. My grandma had pernicious anemia and she had to get shots weekly. I tried the shots. The first one seemed to help, but after that I saw no difference. My blood test didn't reveal a deficiency but I was taking B and C complex supplements at the time. I know I have to take them. If I stop, I get cracks at the sides of my mouth.

[dreamrawalwz]

You may need to go to the Dr. for shots. My grandma had pernicious anemia and she had to get shots weekly. I tried the shots. The first one seemed to help, but after that I saw no difference. My blood test didn't reveal a deficiency but I was taking B and C complex supplements at the time. I know I have to take them. If I stop, I get cracks at the sides of my mouth.

I have done shots in the past and my B-12 got really high. I was no longer depressed nor tired. My question is what's in that syrum? Where does it come from? We'll never know....

[PDMagnusen]

Hey, Tracey. I sent you another email a few minutes ago...

[Naiad]

I believe you are correct and have thought this myself. I understand the results are based against a cooked diet. Here are my results though:

methylmalonic acid - normal range 88-243 - my result was 6053
WAYYY above what it should be. The more acid the less b-12 I have.

I'm constantly tired and exhausted, depressed, ect. I was in denial? taht I had a B-12 problem, that raw would heal the anemia I had previously (never this bad). You said that if you're worried about said disease that you'll most likely develope it....I do'nt think that's the case.

B-12 from waht I understand is NOT in raw foods, but they are organisms and bacteria in the soil, but since the soil is so depleated you won't get much if any at all. Another site I read said that a HEALTHY gut will produce the B-12 that we need. I have 50% of my gut removed so...i don't have a "healthy" gut. Anyway, I'm going to try Primal Defense and green juice (pills) and see waht happens.

Something to add - I've read that B-12 is mostly absorbed in the illium section of your small intestines...guess which section got completely removed? Fun stuff...(being sarcastic!)

I'd really try the E3 Live liquid. B12 is listed on the nutrional profile and on top of having B12, it's awesome in general. When I add it to my green smoothies, I can always tell a difference in my energy and feeling of well being.

http://www.e3live.com/afa_nutrition_profile.htm

[healthisraw1]

i take freeze dried spirulina and eat plenty of sea veggies.

I have been vegetarian for 17 years vegan for about half that and I never took a b12 supplement.

some have said its not getting b12 thats hard its absorption.

do some research on spirulina and seaweeds i think they have b12


I wish you optimum health

[Naiad]

i take freeze dried spirulina and eat plenty of sea veggies.

I have been vegetarian for 17 years vegan for about half that and I never took a b12 supplement.

some have said its not getting b12 thats hard its absorption.

do some research on spirulina and seaweeds i think they have b12


I wish you optimum health

I didn't know sea vegetables such as nori had B12 also. I guess it makes sense if the E3 does :p

I found this neat chart, maybe it will help you, dreamraw!

http://www.seaveg.com/chart.php

[dreamrawalwz]

I'd really try the E3 Live liquid. B12 is listed on the nutrional profile and on top of having B12, it's awesome in general. When I add it to my green smoothies, I can always tell a difference in my energy and feeling of well being.

http://www.e3live.com/afa_nutrition_profile.htm

I'm afraid to take E3 Live liquid b/c I don't do smoothies. I can't tolerate bananas so that leaves me with waht as a base haha? I've tried apples but they leave it lumpy and a little gritty. Pears maybe? I'm sure that doesn't hide the green flavor as well as the bananas do though. What doest he liquid taste like alone?

Precilla (spelling? sorry!) I just replied!

[Spectatrix]

I'm afraid that the "B12" in that E3 live liquid is probably analogues as well. I'd stick to a regular supplement.

[dreamrawalwz]

I'm afraid that the "B12" in that E3 live liquid is probably analogues as well. I'd stick to a regular supplement.

I was kind of thinking the same, but who knows...i'm so confused.

[dogmd]

I believe you are correct and have thought this myself. I understand the results are based against a cooked diet. Here are my results though:

methylmalonic acid - normal range 88-243 - my result was 6053
WAYYY above what it should be. The more acid the less b-12 I have.

I'm constantly tired and exhausted, depressed, ect. I was in denial? taht I had a B-12 problem, that raw would heal the anemia I had previously (never this bad). You said that if you're worried about said disease that you'll most likely develope it....I do'nt think that's the case.

B-12 from waht I understand is NOT in raw foods, but they are organisms and bacteria in the soil, but since the soil is so depleated you won't get much if any at all. Another site I read said that a HEALTHY gut will produce the B-12 that we need. I have 50% of my gut removed so...i don't have a "healthy" gut. Anyway, I'm going to try Primal Defense and green juice (pills) and see waht happens.

Something to add - I've read that B-12 is mostly absorbed in the illium section of your small intestines...guess which section got completely removed? Fun stuff...(being sarcastic!)

If you have had parts of your gi tract removed, absorption will be an issue. You might want to consider the injectable form of vitamin b 12. It may hurt, but your doctor may show you how to do it or they may have to administer it on an as needed basis. I my patients ( animals) I give it as an injection weekly for 4 weeks then retest. Then only as needed. Good luck on figuring out what is best for you!

[Spectatrix]

Here's my suggestion: see if you can talk to your doctor or a nutritionist in your doctor's office before deciding what kind of supplementation to use. He/she would be better able to suggest a type of supplementation, knowing your full health history. I'm betting that either shots or sublingual tablets are your best bet. If you're concerned about what besides B12 is in the shots themselves, ask your doctor.

[Naiad]

I'm afraid to take E3 Live liquid b/c I don't do smoothies. I can't tolerate bananas so that leaves me with waht as a base haha? I've tried apples but they leave it lumpy and a little gritty. Pears maybe? I'm sure that doesn't hide the green flavor as well as the bananas do though. What doest he liquid taste like alone?

Precilla (spelling? sorry!) I just replied!

They put the suggested dose (1 tablespoon?) of E3 in some apple juice at the demos at Whole Foods. It doesn't taste that bad, it's quite similar to a wheatgrass shot. The dose is tiny, most of the time I just swallow it down and chase with some tasty juice.

Sarma suggests that in Raw Food/Real World. I still add it to my smoothies, but, her idea is to make a smoothie, leave a small amount in the blender and blend up whatever greens/not so great tasting stuff you want to add. Drink that like a wheatgrass shot and then enjoy the rest of the plain smoothie afterwards.

I'm not sure if your intestine issue would cause absorption issues the same way a gastric bypass would, but, my mother had that and seems to be okay with the E3. She was taking the b vitamin complex before and decided to stop taking the pill supplements.

[Sunshine9]

From everything I have read, seaweed ect will not reverse a deficiency!! It's awesome and amazing in the diet, and it don't got what you need in terms of B-12.

also, since you were asking-- E-3 live in my opinion is the most delicious of all the green elixers out there. I take 1/2 a grapefruit, juice it, stir in some pulp, a little agave or stevia, and about 1-2 t of E3 and it's delicious. Truely, even cooked people agree. The green taste doesn't stand out. It does look like pond water, but hey.. all natural right :)

Also, I think in looking at an issue like this.. While ideally we wouldn't have to supplement, cooked food has put our bodies through a heck of a lot and they are functioning at a less than ideal rate. The longer that we stay raw, fast, and heal our systems the more optimally they will function, and in the long term I don't think supplementation will be necessary.. but for right now, it is.

just my two cents!

[lissomllama]

I hope whatever you do works well for you. You know what is best for you. Don't worry, these problems should go away in time as you keep taking care of yourself.