fruit to greens ratio

[Lunar*Fey]

So, If I am eating around 2800 calories a day and need to gain muscle and bone big time....can anyone suggest a good fruit to green ratio for my daily intake. I eat mostly fruit and greens....that tends to be what I want...

so can anyone help me out? I really need help, I am realizing that I really NEED to make sure I am doing this right...or else I could easily end up with many many health problems. I already have osteopenia (at 15) and a low white blood cell count. I need help!! I know you aren't all doctors and such, but I thought maybe hearing your advice, opinions, insight could really help...

sadly, I can't purchase organic :( so thats even less nutrients for me :(

[Lay-Lay]

Sweetie, I think you are doing so great. I think of you just eat 100% raw. Keep a variety in your diet, good health is going to find YOU! Much raw love.

[jujube]

I would aim for at least two bunches/heads of greens per day, more if you can handle it. And enough fruit to get you up to 2800 calories. Greens are so low in calories, even if you eat a lot of them, the calories they bring will always be a small % of your total for the day.

For your bone health, it's really important to get more calcium than phosphorus in your diet. A 2:1 ratio is good, but anything above 1:1 is acceptable. That means if you eat 1500 mg of phosphorus in a day, you need at least 1500 mg of calcium to balance it out. If you eat less calcium than phosphorus, your body taps into the calcium stores in your bones, making them weaker, just so it can buffer the phosphorus in your blood stream. This is why high meat and grain diets (both full of phosphorus) lead to osteoporosis.

Here is a good list of fruits and their calcium to phosphorus ratios. The ones near the top are best, with the most calcium, while the ones at the bottom have the most phosphorus. Papaya is really high in calcium; bananas are really low. If you eat high phosphorus fruit, eat PLENTY of calcium-rich greens to balance it out.

[jujube]

Duh, I should probably give you the link, huh? :rolleyes:

http://www.iguanaden.org/diet/calphosfruit.htm

[Lunar*Fey]

thank you :)

Lay-Lay, thank you so much :). I hope you are right...although I am worried because it is hard for me to get variety.

Jujube, Thank you for the link. I have been having trouble getting enough calcium, I think I need more calcium rich greens...lately I've only been getting around 800 mg a day :eek: and just prior it was worse! I need more because I am a growing teenage girl and because of osteopenia. blech. It would be no problem if I was the one who bought groceries...I'd have plenty of calcium rich greens. But just yesterday my brother came over and made my mom go to the grocery store and he had her buy loads of junk...chips, frozen pizza, soda soda soda, white bread etc. She never did that before he moved to my dad's house..
Any way although I haven't been getting enough calcium I usually get slightly less phosphorous than calcium.
thank you so much :)

[meinleben]

if you want more muscle....you must do resistance training....weights.....powe yoga....the muscles have to work....2 heads of romaine will not do it....

[Sharon in Colorado]

I agree Bristol, resistance training is better for strong bones.

Check out The China Study at your local library too. You will discover how much better quality the calicum is from greens, that you don't need the "USDA recommended" amount.

Also consider the fact that smaller people have lower bone density than bigger people, and vegetarians have a faster turn-over rate. I wonder how reliable the test is? I took the 'heel' test and it said I was moderately at risk, however I've never had a fracture, and have been thin all my life and a vegetarian for over 5 years now, so I was not at all alarmed.

[Lunar*Fey]

I have been doing some strength training in my arms with five pound weights. I also ride my bike all the time, walk, and do walk/jog intervals...I have just started doing this stuff regularly instead of just whenever I feel like it though. Hopefully this will help?

I had a bone density full body scan, they said my bones were like that of an old woman or something...at least thats what my therapist yelled at me. I have always had a lower bone density, at least I believe so since at basically my current height I have never weighed very much, even before the loss of weight....but my doctor doesn't know that because she only started seeing me AFTER it all. ah well.

[veganman]

I have been doing some strength training in my arms with five pound weights. I also ride my bike all the time, walk, and do walk/jog intervals...I have just started doing this stuff regularly instead of just whenever I feel like it though. Hopefully this will help?

I had a bone density full body scan, they said my bones were like that of an old woman or something...at least thats what my therapist yelled at me. I have always had a lower bone density, at least I believe so since at basically my current height I have never weighed very much, even before the loss of weight....but my doctor doesn't know that because she only started seeing me AFTER it all. ah well.

Lunar*Fey - how long have you been at a very low weight? Also, did your doctor give you the okay to exercise?

[Sharon in Colorado]

Okay what kind of therapist yells at the patient?

[Lunar*Fey]

veganman,
its weird..she never said Don't exercise but when I left the hospital (I had to go for like 5 days because she wanted to make sure my white blood cell count was ok and all that...its ok now but it is the minimum for what is considered ok) they said "your doctor says you can't do any strenuous exercise so that you can gain weight more quickly"....and everyone around me is like you shouldn't be exercising and she said that but then she told my mom it was ok to ride my bike or something....very mixed messages so I'm really confused. I'm kind of taking it into my own hands. I don't push myself hard or anything, I just have fun.
I'll give you numbers, I hope I don't trigger anyone :(
ok:
highest weight (before eating disorder): 95 lbs at height of 5'3.5"
lowest weight: 77 :(
current weight: approximately 86 or 87 lbs at height of 5'4"

I first lost weight in seventh grade, before my eating disorder, as a result of depression and most likely other lifestyle factors...I was 85/83 lbs for a long time...until I developed an eating disorder. when I got to 77 I was told to go inpatient and I said I should. because I was annoyed, scared, frustrated. I got sick when I ate, I wouldn't be able to move after. So I first lost weight when I was around 13 and am now 15. It's been up and down. 95 to 85 to 83 to {77 to 85 to 89 inpatient} to 86 to 79 and now I'm back up to 87 by myself.

Sharon, I guess mine. She has said things like "You're Anorexic! If I were your mom I don't think I would put up with your shit" and "You have the bones of an 80 year old woman! It's a form of self induced harm not to be drinking milk!!!!"

[Rmiller]

Hi Lunar-Fey,

I'm SOOO sorry to hear that your doctors are yelling at you. Why don't they relize that that just doesn't help. It makes me so mad. I wish I had been there to stick up for you.

You are aware in some of my e-mails to you that I have severe osteoperosis which I developed due to anorexia as well. I'm so pleased to hear that you are being proactive to reverse your condition. The osteo is just starting to reverse but I have had to address many lifestyle factors which all contribute to building stronger bones:

-weight-training & less cardio. Right now I'm trying to gain weight too but I have had to cut back my cardio to hardly anything. Cardio breaks bone down while weight-training stimulates the bones to regrow.

- increasing my protein intake since you need protein to rebuild broken-down organs, other muscles and increase calcium absorbtion. However, too much protein will do the opposite effect break-down bone.

- increasing intake of calcium, Vitamin D, magnesium, boron, copper, silica, vitamin K and other trace elements. I found that bone mass didn't start to increase until I started to supplement with a good quality calcium and multi supplement containing all of these factors.

- lack of period: estrogen helps to stimulate calcium absortion and bone growth. I don't have my period back yet but this is a huge key to truely recovering.

- lots of greens high in vitamin K and calcium, like: bok choy, kale and parsley.

I have lots of other suggestions about gaining on raw and helping the bones so please e-mail if you have any questions.

Hope this helps,

Lisa

[rawnpawgirl]

Lunar-Fey,

I would recommend lots of nut and seed milks, especially sesame seed milk as it is so rich in calcium!! Also, hemp protein and bee pollen. Of course lots of dark, greens- kale, chard, spinach, dandelion, etc.

Keep eating those broccoli stalks they are good as well!

Keep up the good work! I love to see you be so proactive in taking your health into your own hands!

[Davylp25]

What type of sesame seeds? The black ones? Clear ones? Hulled or unhulled?

[Lunar*Fey]

Lisa,
you are so kind :) and thank you SO much for your advice! I haven't gotten my period yet either...I had it maybe three or four times, really really light when I was like 13...now I am 15. It seems like we both have similar goals we need to meet, or something like that lol. How much protein do you get a day? how long have you been trying to gain? eh well I'll email you, I have too many questions! lol. Do you have AIM (aol instant messanger)? That sucks about cardio, sports and everything fun like that include cardio :(. I thought that any weight bearing exercise helped??? darn.
any way, thank you so much!

Rawnpawgirl,
thank you for the suggestions! I wish I could get bee pollen, I have been quite attracted to it for some reason lol. I have no idea how I coudl get some without ordering it online....but argh...I just wish that I had a Raw Mommy!! lol. can someone be my raw foster mom? lol I'll pay you the 10-20 dollars I make whenever I work at a local garden! ;) lol I wish. Any way, thank you very much for the suggestions. I wish I could get more greens. Mostly theres spinach available, but other things are harder for me to get....and I always have to get whatever is inexpensive (while my brother comes over for a week we makes my mom go out and buy tons of soda and junk...I NEVER see him eat fruit or vegetables *sigh*).
any way, thank you again!

Davylp25, I think the unhulled has more calcium. thats what I have :)

[Lunar*Fey]

Lisa,
you are so kind :) and thank you SO much for your advice! I haven't gotten my period yet either...I had it maybe three or four times, really really light when I was like 13...now I am 15. It seems like we both have similar goals we need to meet, or something like that lol. How much protein do you get a day? how long have you been trying to gain? eh well I'll email you, I have too many questions! lol. Do you have AIM (aol instant messanger)? That sucks about cardio, sports and everything fun like that include cardio :(. I thought that any weight bearing exercise helped??? darn.
any way, thank you so much!

Rawnpawgirl,
thank you for the suggestions! I wish I could get bee pollen, I have been quite attracted to it for some reason lol. I have no idea how I coudl get some without ordering it online....but argh...I just wish that I had a Raw Mommy!! lol. can someone be my raw foster mom? lol I'll pay you the 10-20 dollars I make whenever I work at a local garden! ;) lol I wish. Any way, thank you very much for the suggestions. I wish I could get more greens. Mostly theres spinach available, but other things are harder for me to get....and I always have to get whatever is inexpensive (while my brother comes over for a week we makes my mom go out and buy tons of soda and junk...I NEVER see him eat fruit or vegetables *sigh*).
any way, thank you again!

Davylp25, I think the unhulled has more calcium. thats what I have :)

[Davylp25]

Are those the black ones, or clear ones? Is one better for ya?

[jiujitsugirl]

milk does nothing for your bones!!! haha i have the biggest bones of any girl and ive always been lactose intolerant, i cant stand milk, but seriously lift weights if you can and not puny five pounders you need to challenge your muscles to grow- this can also stimulate your appetite, pound nut and seed milks like a bodybuilder and his protein shakes haha good luck and next time your "doctor" yells at you tell her to go..well you get the point

[Lunar*Fey]

Davylp,
I've never seen clear ones but the ones I have are whiteish...it says organic raw unhulled sesame seeds on the bag. Also, I believe black sesame seeds are simply a different type of sesame seed. I could be wrong though. I don't know about one being better than the other, I bet both are great in their own ways? I hope I was of some help! There has been talk of this before so I would try a banana search.

jiujitsugirl,
hahaha I know! I can't stand milk any way. I can't believe doctors are actually taught that dairy is the best thing for your bones. hah. no way! I don't have anything heavier than five pounders...and erm I actually can feel it a bit...after like 20 reps of each. heh, sad I know. I will try doing more sets a day or something? I believe greens are the best things for your bones and protein and such. I mostly eat greens and fruit (lots of greens in the smoothies). The problem is actually getting the greens! I'm 15 and my mom gets aggrivated with almost every little thing I say or do, no matter what the topic or how hard I try to help out theres still something I can be gotten angry at for. but hey, thats part of being a teenager and having an extremely stressed out mom with nothing else to vent on I guess. *sigh* this reminds me, I need to restock on greens. I'll be hearing it. I've never mastered making nut and seed milks, I just sort of blend it all together and drink it with the pulp. It was actually my therapist who yelled at me, but still! actually thats probably worse. therapy is so NOT therapedic.

[rawnpawgirl]

lunar-fey,

Give me your address and I WILL mail you some bee pollen!!! You will love it.

Kirsten

[Davylp25]

Call me a dork.. I was thinking of POPPY SEEDS, Sesame Seeds different. Duh Davy! lol

[Lunar*Fey]

Rawnpawngirl,
wow thank you!! Are you sure??? That is SO extremely thoughtful of you!!
can I email you my mailing address??

Davy,
lol!! well poppy seeds are a good source of calcium too, but which kind? that I don't know lol

[matto melanzana]

Could I get that advice on gaining weight too, please? Like lunar, I'm underweight and also have osteoporosis, docotrs just won't admit it. My health is VERY bad. If i don't improve, I'll be eating MEAT nevermind the raw thing! :mad:

[Sharon in Colorado]

Bristol you really ought not post your address publicly on this forum.

[Lunar*Fey]

Sharon,
you are right. I really should not. I don't know what I was thinking. It was very dim-witted of me, I don't know where my brain is these days :(

[Sharon in Colorado]

That is okay, and dim-witted you definately are not! Just need our Bristol to be safe, is all!

[Lunar*Fey]

lol thanks for looking out for me Sharon. I'm not in a good place right now mentally, just got back from a doctors appointment and it went HORRIBLY :(

[Rmiller]

Lunar*Fey,

I'm so sorry to hear about your struggle at home. I look forward to instant messaging with you: I just got yahoo messenger so you don't have to sign up with MSN.

Matto,

Feel free e-mail me Matto for some weight-gain tips. I would love to share with you. As I mentioned I have severe osteoperosis but it is starting to reverse. My e-mail is lisamadam@gmail.com and my instant messaging e-mail is lisamadam@hotmail.com

Take care guys,

Lisa

[Lunar*Fey]

Rawnpawgirl,
I got the package from you in the mail today, this was so sweet of you! Thank you so much :)
In case you didn't notice, look here: http://rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=171503#post171503

Lisa,
awesome, I will add you :)