My Sister in Law...aka: Raw food petty tyrant.

[catherinethegreat]

I went to dinner with my family for my dad's birthday. I brought an avocado and my own salad dressing - to add to whatever salad I found.

They had a GREAT Salad Bar - so I was set!

The FIRST thing out of my sister in laws mouth to me:

" SO, I hear you're doing some crazy raw food thing where you eat raw crackers or something disgusting like that? "

Over the course of the night she asked me plenty of questions:

WHy aren't you eating the nachos?

You don't eat cheese? Why not?

The shrimp isn't cooked why won't you eat that?

You won't eat meat? Why not? Not even Sushi!?

How can you only eat Raw foods? Isn't that boring?

and on and on - I don't even remember all of them.

Unfortunatley I sat right across from her.

I realized right away that there was no way to really explain anything to her because she didn't REALLY want to know. She was just picking at me - and if I started to explain - she would most likely get into a debate with me about it. She brought up how eggs are good for you one minute and cancer causing the next so you might as well just eat lettuce.

So I downplayed it as much as possible.

I told her that the reason I eat Raw foods is for health reasons. Then of course she asks what is the matter with me so I pull out my long list of ailments - ( even though I found out about these AFTER starting the raw food lifestyle )

I don't eat cheese because it's mucous forming and I'm cleaning out my system of everything right now.

I don't eat meat because I don't want to. I may eat sushi someday - but not right now.

Jerry actually started telling her about the date nut torte I made and brought to his work and everyone was amazed at how good it was.

( What a guy! )

I found the entire situation a complete trial for me because she drives me crazy anyways! I didn't like to be tested like that by her - or anyone.
But I remembered learning that petty tyrants are there to test you and your ability to not react. It has nothing to do with me. It's all her stuff and her energy. And the less I respond the easier it will be to enjoy my dinner and tune her OUT!!!! ROAR!!!!!!!!

guess I'm still mad at her - but I think I did a good job of not letting her go on and on and debate with me last night.

I'm going to send her a few website links and say
" you seemed so interested in the RAW food lifestyle I thought I'd send you some amazing links of people's testimonials"

hahahahhahahahah!

Oh she also ordered a martini and offered me a sip even though she knows I've been sober for 17 years. She says....Oh but by now you can have just a sip right?

I don't want one - thank you!( and then I punched her! - ok I DREAMT that part )hahahahaha

xo
*c

[Sharon in Colorado]

Hey Catherine,

My ex SIL was like that. She would make quite obnoxious remarks but then want to taste my food. Usually the best response is 'because I love the way it tastes and makes me feel' who can argue with that?

But, in the event that you'd like to respond differently, here's a thread I started a while back. There are some other links to similar types of situations and also some suggestions on how to resond to those people!

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1300

I think most of the time you have to feel the person's intentions out. If they are poking you to start an endless debate, it's a chance for you to be either evasive or cocky right back at them. If they are truly interested, it's a great chance to share how raw foods is changing your life.

Try sending her before and afters from Shazzie's site and Paul Nissan's site, those are great!

[catherinethegreat]

I had JUST copied the link to the before and after part of Shazzie's site to show her.

I love just saying - because I love how it tastes and makes me feel!

Great idea.

Thanks for the link - I'll read that too.

*c

[monkeyboy]

Hey Cat,

Sorry about the in-law.

Did your Pop have a nice time?


Peace,

M.B.

[catherinethegreat]

I think he had a good time - he is so quiet - that it's hard sometimes to tell.

I think he enjoyed seeing his grandkids.

All of us just sit quietly while the Sister in law rants.

[Rawkinlocs]

"... because I love how it tastes and makes me feel!" - CLAS-sic! :) I will be using that one! :D

Catherine, sorry your SIL gave you such a hard time, but you seem to have handled her well.

[catherinethegreat]

thank you -

I just had to post about it because it sort of caught me off guard! :eek:

[Wendy]

Oh, Catherine, I feel for you. My hubby has been vegetarian for 29 years so people don't even ask anymore, they KNOW he's a freak! (ha, ha). He's done raw before too. My mom is quite accommodating, I told her I was doing raw to heal myself the rest of the way from fibromyalgia. She told me to do whatever it took! Now, that's a mom for you!

I suggest you come up with something that shuts them up right away, maybe something like you have awesome sexual powers when you eat RAW. I don't know, I have a sister in law that is a neat freak. I went right for the jugular when she freaked out on me one day. I had my dog Jasper on my lap, he was 9 weeks old. I was feeding him watermelon (by the way, he's a vegetarian too). He licked the paper plate and I put down. My SIL was belly aching about the dog being at the snack counter at my uncle's house. My aunt kinda shut her up and said, hey, it's not china, and it's not like a cat with it's butt on the counter.

I left the room and came back and picked up the same paper plate. Put some more watermelon on it. I forgot Jasper had licked it. MY SIL freaked out and said, isn't that the plate Jasper licked. I said, yep, and picked up the plate and licked it myself.

SHe almost fell off her chair.

Easy target. When people show you their weakness, and they want to rant about you, you have no choice but to push your finger in their bruise. I don't want you to think I go about doing these things, I usually don't, but sometimes people have to be SHUT UP.

[sweetgoddess]

I really like "you have awesome sexual powers when you eat RAW"
lmao

say that next time Catherine! please do! lol

You handled it beautifully and i almost choked at your I punched her-ok I dreamt that part.

Let us know how she responds to the links and GOOD JOB!

Warmly~
Carmel

[Autumn]

<<Oh she also ordered a martini and offered me a sip even though she knows I've been sober for 17 years. She says....Oh but by now you can have just a sip right?>>

Is she an idiot? Sorry, but how perfectly rude and evil. You're right, she doesn't care about raw or want to know anything about it. She wanted to pick on you until you cracked and you didn't give her the satisfaction. I might have mentioned to her also that she was being rude to the other guests by her constant badgering, but unfortunately these types of people rarely "get it" even if you beat them over the head with a 2x4.

Good for you for getting through dinner without strangling her. You're a better woman than I. ;)

[askcassyfirst]

Cath...I feel for you. I had meant to post about it in my journal yesterday, and forgot. May write about it tonight. Had something similar to deal with:

I have been ill this last week, and when I got to work on friday, I was told I look pale & green around the edges. Sure, that is how one looks when they are ill right? Also, it has been quite cold here in FL and I have had no sun on me for a few months really, so sure I am a bit pasty. (I have naturally darker skin, so this is rare.) So, one well meaning person looks over at me and says,

"yes, Cassy you really look pale. Anemic really. You have been doing that cleanse too long. You need to go have some protein."

Ok. I could have handled that, since I know it was meant out of kindness. But then, someone else started babbling on about having a nice bloody steak, that that is what I need...

It is hard when people don't get what it is that you are trying to do, and even worse yet when they taunt or pick at you over things that they just don't get.

I applaud you for your ability to hold your temper. It was all I could do on friday to not just lash out. Sad thing is I work in a very healthy caring environment. Sometimes people have thier own issues and adgenda, and they forget their manners.

We shall overcome...

Cassy. :)

[catherinethegreat]

nice to hear all of your comments!

and yes - the RAW FOOD FOR SEXUAL POWERS! I've got to use that next time!!!!!!!

I sent her 2 links.

She e-mailed me back and said

"thanks for the links
anything to lose weight."

I wish I could say something to her that would be a bit biting and get her to stop - just in GENERAL
not just about the raw food thing.
But about EVERYTHING.

My mom can't stand it and ignores her and just eats her food and doesn't talk to her.

Way to go Mom!!!


And Cassy - wow - my first thought about the steak comment from your co-worker is to say:

oh I'm not into eating dead animal carcasses anymore.
But thank you.

hahha

ok - I'm mean I know - and I probably wouldn't say it if it was me
just like I didn't say anything to my Sister in Law.

but it would be fun for a moment.

I'm telling you the " it gives me amazing sexual powers" is the ANswer for everything now

hahahahah!

Autumn : yea - the drinking comment was pretty amazing I must say. She is just per poison I'm thinking. Not just a petty tyrant, but just poison.

*c

[Allison]

Someone at our potluck the other day said that when they are asked why they eat raw, they respond, "for the pure pleasure of it". I thought that was great.

[catherinethegreat]

That's a great thing to say too!

I'll keep it in my back pocket!

[twinyoga]

"For the Pure Pleasure of It"...I gotta remember that one. Along with the sexual powers comment.

I think you handled it well. Personally, I don't say a word to anyone! I was at a brunch today and while everyone was eating eggs benadict, I had pineapple and other fruits. Yum. I just ate and ate and enjoyed.

[Wendy]

You know, sometimes when people are mean to me, I try to be even nicer. It kills people who are trying to irk you when you are nice back to them. However, considering most of my friends in 6th grade were all boys, I got quite good at a nice sarcastic comment back. It's not always the higher road to take, and so I try to bite my tongue sometimes. I think another good one, just to shock someone would be something like well, at the orgies I participate in, we all start with a raw meal first. I've kinda got addicted. If you have a boyfriend, husband, or significant other, throw their name in too, like well, Bob and I .....

Ha!

[Amethyst_Rain]

soryy to hear about the annoying sil...i know exactly how you feel...my mom is the same way...she even sneaked meat in my food when i was still only vegan...just for the spite of it...i don't know...some people get a kick out of doing or saying mean things to people...but like you said...it's their bad energy not ours...they can just wallow in it all they want while we get more healthful and beautiful by the day :)

[Sweet lips]

I think you did hadle it well. This past summer when we went to the family reunion, everyone was commenting on how good my hubby and I looked. My SIL would say really loudly, oh, they eat raw and she would answer for me, when someone would ask a question, any question. Finally, I whispered to her, that although I eat raw, I can still talk and dang, I hear pretty good too, so stop yelling. She kept it up, so I just laughed out loud and did my usual - people find it really difficult to deal with you when you just smile at them and say nothing, maybe nod a little and smile some more. They'll leave you alone because they begin to feel that they are going to be attacked.

I do like for the pleasure of it, a good nod, and be done with it. She'll be okay. Don't try to persuade her or explain, just be a beautiful picture .

[harmony]

After reading how you got drilled at dinner, I think that when I find myself in that situation, especially sitting down to eat, with a bunch of people, after answering a few questions, I would tell the questioner that I will be glad to sit down with them at a later time to discuss it if they want. The End. You can tell if someone is sincere or if they are trying to pick.

[catherinethegreat]

good point!

I forgot that she also drilled me about not having a car in LA. I told her I was doing fine and it was fun to take the train and walk places. It really made me slow down and I love that.

But that wasn't the end of it for her - she just kept on me about how impossible it is without a car and how can I handle getting any where......
blah blah

My word.

You are so right at just saying - if you want to talk more about this we can at a later time.
PERIOD.

Thanks!

I do need to find ways to deal with a tyrant.
without becoming one myself!!
hahaha
*c

[Wendy]

Hey LA is meant for cars, they don't give a rat's ass about public transportation. I left Chicago last year and will be back eventually. I love that I can get on the El (subway) and go anywhere cheaply.

If you ever get interested in suburban sprawl and the future of america, check out anything written by Dean Kuntlser.

[catherinethegreat]

Wendy,

I was shocked to find out that your theory is actually wrong.( I thought the same thing you did )

I take the bus and Metro Rail all over the place and find it better then when I lived in San Diego BY FAR.

I can go anywhere I need to and the website for the metro rail can give me the buses and trains to take to which ever destination I type in. Really amazing.
of course it's nothing like Chicago!

[Sharon in Colorado]

>>I forgot that she also drilled me about not having a car in LA. I told her I was doing fine and it was fun to take the train and walk places. It really made me slow down and I love that.

But that wasn't the end of it for her - she just kept on me about how impossible it is without a car and how can I handle getting any where......
blah blah<<

Next time turn to your brother and say "yeesh...how do you put up with all this?" and then turn to someone else and ask about how their day went today.

[Punky]

Wow Catherine,
Your SIL sounds like such a toxic person :mad: :mad: :mad:
I still can't get over her and that martini deal.
Good for you for rising above her and not punching her ( I might have :D ).
She sounds really unhappy to feel the need to have
to pick on you throughout the whole celebration dinner. Ughh!
What I don't get is why the Atkins diet is so mainstream and people
think eating fruits and veggies a la naturale is sooooo weird....hmmm

[RawNaturale]

When I've had people offer me a drink, I generally tell them, "No thanks, I'm allergic...when I drink I break out in hand cuffs." People who do that knowingly don't get much of a hall pass from me -- Sure, I'd like to die a slow, miserable alcoholic death, thank you.

Yeesh, she sounds like a real BE-atch. Sorry for the foul language. Also sounds like she's just trying to get to you and isn't worth the rental space in your head. Glad you could vent here and I hope you can practice avoidance of said toxin. :D Just say no! LOL

---Julie

[Sharon in Colorado]

Are you sure your sil and my ex sil aren't related? My ex sil practically forced someone to take a sip of her chocolate martini. The guy was sober for several years. He finally said 'all right!' and took a fake sip to get her out of his face. The same ex sil held a deer sausage under my nose to get me to take a bite (I was high raw vegetarian at the time)....I said "get that deer member out of my face!"... Is your SIL from Texas???

[catherinethegreat]

hahaha - you are all so funny and great. Sorry this turned into a non raw related thread. Just a SIL thread.

thanks for all the great ideas!!!!

*c

:)

[tglasco4]

Catherine......I am sorry but that was totally hilarious! What a totally sad person that lady is though. You handled yourself wonderfully! Great job! btw, Raw food really DOES give sexual powers (lol). I get that all the time, I guess I am just used to it. Surprisingly though, many people who start out obnoxious end up wanting to know more. I hope that sad individual will one day be one of those.

Peace.

Todd

[karotw]

Catherine-

I'm sorry you had to put up with this, though it sounds like you take good care of yourself. Glad to be armed with a few more quick responses, as I will off to visit my family in Chicago this weekend and none of them "get it". . .I'm sober 5 years and still get offer wine - Julie, I love the handcuffs comment, may have to use that one. . .and with the food stuff they just look at me and shake their heads. . .my SIL is actually the best one in the bunch, though, I don't think she understands the why, but she is into the concept of allowing people to make their own choices without judgement, anyway. . .

Thanks!
Karen

[RawNaturale]

. .I'm sober 5 years and still get offer wine - Julie, I love the handcuffs comment, may have to use that one. . .

Thanks!
Karen

What is it with us ex-drunks here? :D Guess we've abused our bodies so now we want to make up for it. :cool: Feel free to borrow the handcuffs...I heard it years ago at a meeting. I was at a Catholic wedding (my step bro) this past fall and my sister and I were the only ones not drinking. I used that line with the folks at our table and I thought they were going to pee their pants. Hey, it's a conversation starter. :p

I also like to say, "No thanks, I've had enough already." That one gets some funny reactions, especially when it's early and you're clearly stone-cold sober.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Someone recently gave me a link to this. I thought it was very appropriate to this convesation. Now you know that people 'do' make comments to junk food eaters too!

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=319094&CategoryID=11285&startcat=1&ThreadID=1772547

Hey I love that "no thank you, I've had enough already"...you know you can use this with anything offered to you! (I've had enough cake, cookies, pasta, bread, and meat for my lifetime!)

[catherinethegreat]

Julie and Karen - I'm so glad to find others who are sober and into Raw!

Yipeeeeeeeeee!

For me it seems like - if I'm going to go the distance and go to treatment - move across the country to change my life and learn how to be in the world with out hiding then I might as well figure out how to live my BEST life ever.

Seems like a waste if I've done all that work and don't go the extra mile to give myself the opportunity to really be ALIVE in the fullest sense ever.

It's almost like hunting another high in a way. I'm still taking action toward something higher then where I am now. Because something inside of me knows that it exists.

I bet you have found the same to be true.

hey don't they say - where ever 3 or more gather - it's a meeting or something? Guess this would be my version of one.

Thanks for listening to me share.



:D

[caramba]

Catherine,
I read this post yesterday and wanted to reply - looks like everyone has given you good advice/support. You can choose your friends but not your family - right!? I admire your compose - sometimes it's hard to remember that negative / unreasonable people are to be pitied (not punched...;-)

Your results will speak for themselves - Go For It - you're doing great!

[SedonaSun]

After reading this post and some others with similar ideas--those where others think we're weird for following this lifestyle--something has been on my mind and I guess I want to vent a bit and maybe encourage some of you in a roundabout way.

The question I've been asked most often about raw is...can you guess..."Where do you get your protein?" followed closely by, "Where do you get your calcium?"

I understand people are concerned about calcium with all the media scare tactics about osteoporosis. I'm not saying osteoporosis isn't a problem, don't get me wrong, but the media--marketing and news--appeals to our fears. Period.

I may be speaking from ignorance, but what does a protein deficiency look like? Seriously. Is that a problem? Vegetarianism and veganism are not new. How many vegans have a protein deficiency?

I can understand and even appreciate someone who has a genuine concern about the way I eat and asks questions out of concern. But what really irks me is reading about these people some of you have encountered that "know" this is bad for us, it's killing us, it's not the way to eat, etc. I want to ask them, "Where's your proof?" Back up your statements. I've already got a long list of reasons why eating raw is good for me. And my list of negatives includes: it seems to be more expensive, but I haven't proved that; it takes some advanced planning, but really, how bad is it to hone one's planning skills beyond how long something has to be nuked in the microwave; and the occasional cravings for SAD food. I've got my proof to back up my lifestyle. Where's their proof to condemn it?

All this made me think of something I heard about becoming a successful person--be careful who your friends are because you will become like them. Meaning, if you want to be successful in business, hang around with successful business people. If you want to be a CEO one day, but you spend all your free time with dope-smoking slackers, they'll drag you down to their level, you won't lift them up to your level.

So, the point I'm driving towards is that some of the people who spew this unsubstantiated garbage about how you're killing yourself are really trying to drag you back down to their level. In Christian churches, there's a saying that there is a God-sized hole in everyone's soul and we search for things to fill that void--sex, drugs, food, money, thrills, etc and I think, too, that there is a raw-sized hole in each of us as well. I'm not trying to put raw on the same level as salvation, just trying to make a point that eating naturally is something all our bodies crave, whether we acknowledge it or not. And, so, someone (not everyone) stuck in the SAD life doesn't want to see us succeed because that would prove that they're not living right and it would force them to make a decision either to a) change, and the don't want to do that or b) stay where they are, though they feel convicted about it because they know it's not in their best interest.

There was another point I wanted to make, but dang if I can't remember it now :rolleyes: Oh well.

That's my little rant.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Sedona - That was excellent! Wonderful thoughts. It is true, someone who succeeds usually keeps their distance from the nay-sayers. They only bring him down.

But for when we are around those naysayers, the latest thing I answer to that "where do you get your protein/calcium?" question is the classic "where does the cow get its protein/calcium?" It causes people to think.

Your suggestion to challenge them about where there proof or evidence is, is also a superb idea. I mean, in reality, what percentage of the vegan population has been diagnosed with osteoporosis or a protein deficiency? It would be interesting and kind of fun to ask that question to someone who asks where we get our nutrients.

I think the longer I've been doing this, the easier it gets to be around people and all their questions and remarks. That isn't to say there will be a time when I'm caught off-guard or am ridiculed/questioned by an extra persnickety person, but for the most part I'm way more comfortable and confident than I was in the beginning. Could be that I'm older and not as bothered by it as much too.

[SamL]

You did really well Catherine, your sil sounds a tad bit jelous, you must be glowing. :)

[SimplyRawesome]

good point!

I forgot that she also drilled me about not having a car in LA. I told her I was doing fine and it was fun to take the train and walk places.
Catherine,
The next time she asks if you have anything for weight loss, tell her to get rid of her car!!! LMAO!!! :D

I admire you for your strength and composure. People like that would drive me to the range for target practice!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

[moonstar]

Dear Catherine (and others):

I read your message about your SIL. I can relate, because I have been vegetarian / raw on and off for a long time. I am raw right now, and working to make a permanent transition. My family is always a pain about this kind of stuff...

It's unfortunate that people make these kinds of comments -- and that thing about the alcohol was just plain unacceptable. But -- some people "just don't get it". Seriously -- they have so many things about themselves that they are dissatisfied with, that it spills over in their comments to others -- rudeness. Rude people are, in fact, insecure. Fear is another thing that balls people up -- fear of making changes that will improve health and maybe even make them nicer people (imagine that?)

We choose this lifestyle to be healthy, more balanced, feel better about ourselves, etc. Some people don't know how to start, or , sadly, are just too lazy. Like you, I like to help people and hate to see people suffer and struggle. But sometimes, there is nothing that you can do but continue on your path and hope that your own struggles and successes will inspire others to make personal changes.

I am 31 -- and I used to be a person who would try to "fix" everything. But -- again -- that is not always the best path -- sometimes things "fix" themselved on their own, or the course of events that happen along the way supply the lessons / tools for growth. Unfortunately, some people will never think before they open their mouths!

[catherinethegreat]

Thank you everyone for your support and kind words and experiences about this topic! It happened again the other day with a friend I've had since high school. but I was prepared and didn't allow the conversation to get ugly.

*c

[Lara]

To answer what I do know about protein deficiency (Sedona Sun)- It's a condition called kwashiorkor and the reason that it's such a different name is because it only occurs in third world countries!!! (thus from another language than english). Sorry to interrupt this thread but I am so so sick of people asking me where do I get my protein??!
It's very very (did I say VERY?) difficult to acquire kwashiorkor. That's because protein is formed from amino acids in the body and guess what food group carries unadulterated amino acids in all the perfect combinations fit for the human body?? You guessed it my fellow raw fooders- fresh fruits and vegetables!!
Check out Gabriel Cousens book Conscious Eating and the classic Harvey and Marilyn Diamond book Fit for Life for their expert opinion on the protein deficiency farce that has been pushed on our culture by the meat and dairy industries (based on old research sponsored by the aforementioned industries in the 1940's and 50's).
That is now off my chest. Whew! Please forgive the tangient I took. Catherine, you are awesome. Lead by example, I say. You just live your life, get healthier and healthier, glowier and glowier and people will either want to know what you're doing or they'll just have to shut up- the proof is in the pudding(or smoothie ;)

[catherinethegreat]

I'm thinking I should copy the post Lara wrote - and print it out on a piece of paper and if people ask me about protien - I'll just hand them the info!
Then i don't even have to speak and I can educated people too.

*c :D

[rawpriestess]

Hi Catherine,

Wow, you sure handled yourself well in that situation.

I have had "toxic" in laws myself, and it seems that no matter what you say or do, they find fault.

If you agree with them, they still find fault.

Basically they are really scared, and they want the attention on themselves to prove that they are really okay, which in their own mind they are not.

It is tough to deal with these people, being kind is a good thing, but sure can wear on your nerves, especially if you are out with other friends that you would like to visit with.

I have tried being nice, and not answering, I have tried answering with the truth, but since I don't have any proof with me it is hard to quote statistics.

I don't like to explain my choices, and I have told them this, at which point they feel attacked.

I have said, "why do you want to know" until I am blue in the face.

I have tried to change the subject, and to even disarm them by talking about something else.

I have actually pretended to not hear them, or to simply ignore them, but it didn't seem very spiritual to me.

So, now what I do in situations like this, is to try to imagine them as a being of white light and love, desperately seeking acceptance from someone, anyone that they can find.

I then send them love and light (if they choose to accept it), and see them as a perfect being with an imperfect thought process, and allow them their thoughts.

I try to address their real concerns and questions instead of what they are saying.

Like when they say something like, "Try my martini, surely you can have one sip after 27 years now." I really hear them saying, "I drink, and I want to be okay with my choices, please accept me, becaue I don't think I accept myself." So my response would be something like, "Martinis sure come in a pretty glass. I love the clear color and the pretty little green olive. I bet it tastes wonderful to you."

All of which is true, and loving, and totally accepting, and ignores her attempts to try to persuade me to "try" to justify her actions, by doing them myself.

Just a thought.

When in doubt, be kind. Or at least I sure try to do this.

blessings,
Rawpriestess

[SusanF]

I have had people tell me that they often feel hostile feelings towards vegetarians because they come across as smug and superior when stating that they "don't eat meat". I was at a cook-out for my daughter's school class where both vegie burgers and hamburgers were being cooked. The man doing the cooking didn't realize that I was a vegetarian and started to make comments about the vegies insisting that he cook the vegie burgers on a different part of the grill. He agreed to and then refused to do so behind their backs, thinking they were "over the top" in their request. I have not been a vegetarian for very long (about four months) and wasn't really sure how to handle the situation. I did find his (and others) comments interesting. It made me wonder if perhaps I do come across sounding superior when I state my preferences (with the raw diet in particular) and if this perceived attitude has anything to do with how others respond. What do you all think? When you do to another person's home for dinner, do you bring your own food? If we're the ones out of the mainstream, should we be making all the accomodations? How do you all handle this?

[Amethyst_Rain]

yes, i do ususally bring my own food...sometimes people could read that as being rude, but they don't realize that this is a very important part of our lives. I mean i could tell my dad: "ok, make a salad for me" i get there and it's iceberg lettuce with some tomatos....you know...most people don't even know how to make the simplest raw meals...and they don't know that we need dark green leafys, and that you can make your own salad dressing from avocado and all sort of other stuff...so instead of putting them on the spot, i just bring my own...it just works better :)

[catherinethegreat]

rawpriestess - loved your post - I remember when I was really into my spiritual practice and working at the foundation where people would call and start to attck - and ask questions that weren't really questions - just poison. And I was so detached that it didn't bug me at all! It was so great. I could see their fear and see waht they were REALLY saying underneath the words. Your post reminded me of this.

I do see my sil as a little girl - like very little. Like 5. even though we are the same age. I need to remember the tools I learned from that practice. It was So great to just detach - not take anything personally - and speak to the little girl - not to the poison.

I do want to ask her - why does it matter? You want the martini - I want water. Who cares? It's just a choice. we all get to make them every moment.

SusanF - Yes - I'm learning more and more the importance of taking care of myself and not expecting others to go out of their way - just because I changed my eating habits. I have a friend who told me he got a soft cooler and takes it with him EVERY WHERE. it is PACKED with food choices - so no matter where he is - he never feels without - or in trouble surrounded by cooked foods.

The last lunch I went to with friends they told me the restaurant was so so good - had GREAT salads. I believed them - but ALL the salads has cheese on them. when I asked for no cheese - just veggies - they gave me a plate of lettuce.
I wish I had my cooler filled with seeds, nuts, avocado, and salad dressing.
Luckily I had a little tiny thing of dressing with me. But that was the worst and I don't want to have that happen again.
My friends and I had very little to talk about - I'm finding that the more I get into changing my lifestyle - the less interested I am in chatting about superficial things.

*c

[Sharon in Colorado]

Hey Catherine - I know what you mean about certain restaraunts. I think it may apply to the waitstaff.

We went to Gunther Toody's over the weekend, a 50's diner. I decided to try using the 'I eat raw, fresh foods' cards and handed it to my waitress, telling her I'd like a BIG VEGGIE salad with anything they have on my card. She comes back with a puny dinner salad with sprouts, mushrooms, white tomatoes and thread sized shredded CHEESE all over it, intermingling in the sprouts and stuck to the tomato. I had to pick off as much as possible and attempt to eat what I could. Was starving afterward. I didn't want to even deal with sending it back. In hindsight I wondered if I would have fared better getting one of their entree salads minus the meat and cheese.

But last week, on Valentines day, our family went out to Zio's an Italian restaurant. I asked the waitress if I could get a BIG VEGGIE salad and she asked me if I wanted cheese or croutons on it. Girl after my own heart! Should have asked her if she was raw foodist. Hey you never know!

Sometimes it doesn't even matter how you order it. You just have to hope your waitstaff understands different eating styles and will serve you properly.

[catherinethegreat]

Hi Sharon- I know - it's so strange - maybe we should have a photo withthe note we hand the waitstaff to show them what we mean by LARGE and maybe the note should actually SAY no cheese - no croutons

Last time I asked - I was given cooked broccoli when I asked for raw veggies. ?!?!?!?!

[rawpriestess]

Hi,

well, I think you all are doing great.

What I used to do was hand the waitstaff one of those little cards, but I am also a catering chef, and I know what it is like in a kitchen, so a little card may or may not make it even to the chef.

I have had some real challenges with that card.

So, I do what Alissa suggests in her book.

I read the entire menu to see what they might have in other recipes that are fresh veggies, just so I can make my choices.

I then order a chef salad, almost all restaurants have them.

I ask for the cheese, meat and croutons and any nuts be on the side (if I ask that they don't bring them, there is usually some weird look on their face, and a desired explanation), I also ask that the salad dressing be on the side.

I then ask if I can add, (and then list the other ingredients from other dishes) such as fresh mushrooms, fresh tangerines, or raspberries, fresh banana, I just ask them to add it, or bring it to me.

The waitstaff always does this, and usually perfectly. WHY? Because they are used to dieters who want the dressing and any carbs on the side, hence the croutons, salad dressings on the side. They seem to be able to handle this.

And the rest of the stuff, they just charge me for.

I have never had a challenge ordering this way. And I don't get some postage stamp sized salad either, I get a huge Chef salad, with all of the good stuff on it, and the other stuff on the side.

I have asked for oil and vinegar dressings, but pure lemon is the best, they always have fresh lemons (for tea), so there you have a really great dressing.

I used to order two dinner salads, and ask that they bring out lots of veggies, but there be nothing cooked.

They would bring me two puny salads, topped with dressings, croutons, cheese canned beets, etc. of course none of it hit the fire, so they felt like they did an excellent job.

It isn't that the wait staff isn't smart, most of them are simply uneducated in raw food, and why should they be, unless they are personally interested in it?

Also, when I order a big salad, like a chef salad, the rest of the people at the table (even at dinner meetings), don't have a lot of uncomfortable (for them) questions, and feelings about my food choices.

About sounding superior. Actually, if a meat eater, thinks that a vegetarian sounds superior, then in some way, they must think that we are, to have any issues about it.

I used to eat boca burgers, and cooked veggies, and fret over whether it was cooked on the same grill with the same greese as meat, in fact I know they were, because I could taste it.

It wasn't about not getting one little dram of meat juices on my food, when I ate cooked food, it was about my health and life choices.

I am NOT trying to change anyone else, but sometimes you will run into someone who wants to be your personal devil, like deliberately cooking veggie burgers with the meat. How unnecessarily unkind, and hateful is that?

Again, this is just a control thing, they feel victimized somehow, and they have no boundaries, or they don't enforce them.

I try to be kind to these people and to allow them their little Hitler attitude, and be done with them (hopefully) in my life.

I used to carry alot of raw food stuff with me, and this was a help often, but now, I just pop into a grocery store, and buy an apple and a banana or a cantaloupe, or kiwi, or what looks the ripest, and eat it.

There are always salads in restaurants, even the cheap burger joints have salads, and many places have fresh squeezed orange juice and fresh grapefruit and cantaloupe, and strawberries in season, you just have to ask.

[catherinethegreat]

the chef salad is a GREAT idea and asking for everything on the side - makes sense considering that this is normal behavior for carb free folkss.
Thanks for the tips!

I guess I still feel uncomfortable when I smell all the smells of cooked food and have a pidly little iceburg lettuce salad to eat - or even a huge one - if it's a lame salad. So I still feel the need to comfort myself with having stuff around me that makes me happy while I get through eating with SAD folks. Even though I've made the choice to eat RAW - I am still feeling my inner victim when the meal across from me looks more interesting and tasty then mine.

Also - I have been in a few situations where - I'm not around a grocery store and I smell cooked food - and then my body goes into "I'm hungry - feed me now " mode. And I feel stressed out because I didn't bring anything - and going into a little taco shop or a gas station seems hard to figure out the options. And I'm not always interested in an apple. I'm still dealing with living to eat - instead of eating to live issues. Food is recreational for me. And I go into victim mode like Varucca Salt in Willy wonka's chocolate factory
" I WANT IT NOW!!! " especially with emotional stuff - Learning to not eat when I feel upset or stressed or happy or sad or uncomfortable.
Looking forward to being more like you someday - and not having it be an issue!!!

You give me lots of good visuals of how it will look someday soon!

*c

[Sharon in Colorado]

I look over the menu like you RawPriestess. Avocado is what I look for. Usually if I ask for avocado instead of meat, they give me a whole bunch of it. One time I went to a Tea Parlor and got a regular salad with a side of avocado. So they charge me $2 for the avo and gave me maybe 1/4 of an avocado on a plate. What a joke that was. Seems I have more luck when I sub the meat for the avo because it's a substantial loss.

Two places in particular this worked well for me, may work for you if you have the establishment near you. One was Chili's and the other Champ's sports bar & grill.

Some people in my raw support group have expressed their annoyance at being charged the same price when they get a salad without meat & cheese, which is the very reason why I ask for the avo sub. Or at least extra lettuce & veggies in leiu of it, etc.

The idea of asking for the meat, cheese and croutons on the side is great too. Rawpriestess, thanks for clarifying how that would work in the server's mind.

[Wendy]

Also, my husband a long time vegetarian (29 years+) always asks for a double side salad or just a large salad. He usually gets lemon wedges and olive oil for dressing.